• 2011mvfsm pad 7dec

last modified December 7, 2012 by facilitfsm

2011movements-fsm |

 this is a replica of pad  http://titanpad.com/agora99firezneWSF2

 

Call for the 2, Mumble Meeting / Open Space on 7 December 2012 at 19.00 pm GMT 

SIGNS:
WWWW or +1 = agree
MMMMM or -1 = desagree
****turn****       = ask for turn
TTTTT : tecnical point 

Minuted and Agenda of the last meeting:  
 
Collective Pad for this Meeting: 

Agenda (to build up collectivly)

Proposals:

0. Introducing and welcome

1. Information point of the situation in Tunisia and possible partnerships & the WSF situation? (Rami_tun from tunis, facilitator of commission methology and content in WSF and being very critical with the general organisation of WSF & also a member of horizontal movement in Tunisia will try to be there or at least ask to several people from tunisia who have the same spirit and knowledge to come to the meeting)

3. Targets to 2013: World Social Forum 2013 do we want to do something and how?

2. How we should organize the assemblies in Tunis? how many? when? what time? 
a group Inclusion in Forums Through Assembleary Processes has been registered 
here is the group  http://www.fsm2013.org/organisation_info/2472  and there the 3 activities/assemblies  announced can be accessed

2.1 what about contents and methodology? 

3. tool to use how do we communicate from now on, after this meeting?
which list are we going to use? which other tools? 
  • occupy-and-wsf-discussion@lists.openfsm.net
  • transcollab@lists.so36.net
  • squares@lists.takethesquare.net
  • occupy15m-firenze@lists.openfsm.net
translations? (two people already complained about the call not being translated into French and Portuguese.+ Arabic.. I know we are not a translation agency but can we think of a solution? (may be translator brigades can help)
meeting in Mumbles (weekly?)
simple blog with calls for meetings/minutes/relevant articles/practical info/reporting?
others: ....
  • should we try to innovate an online simultaneous interpretation system for the future meetings (the idea is at an experimental level: interpreters - via babels- join in the mumble meeting and mute their mics so they can hear  and interpret via skype. So they establish conference call simultaneously with participants speaking relevant languare. Will test this if it works and let you know)   

3. How we involve the assemblies all over the world in the preparing for Tunis process?
  • How do we make sure that we keep our initiative open to new proposals during the coming months?
  • How do we make sure there will be always room for constructive criticism, for example on how to relate to other movements, NGOs, unions, etc?
  • Can we come to an agreement on a very short statement indicating the purpose of our initiative (maybe not now, but within the next couple of weeks?) and what would be the main elements of such a statement?

4. How we could promote local participation for people who cannot travel to Tunis?
Extended forum is a modality explained here http://www.fsm2013.org/en/node/113  - 
Local groups not going to Tunis can announce local activities and also tele-encounter activities , with tunis groups or with other local groups.  Also they can "tele- participate" in activities held in tunis (inasmuch those activities are enlarged on internet by their organizers) 
First local activities announced are seen here :http://www.fsm2013.org/fr/node/1432  the concept of combined participation is explained here ; http://www.fsm2013.org/en/node/456
A collaborative scheme for supporting extended participation is being prepared here : http://openfsm.net/projects/tunex-en ( translation in progress from :http://openfsm.net/projects/tunex-fr

2. From today on how will we reach out and build links with more Tunisian local activists in order to start building up towards wSF as well as ogranising logistical and other matters in Tunis.

==============================================

International updates 

  • Global demonstration on May
  • Information about Global 'across the wall' anti-war / self -determination for all people's on-line meeting A meeting to bring together people from all over the world (Palestine, Israel, Syria, Iran, .....) to co-ordinate the possibility of a grassroots transnational network to bring wars and occupations to an end, inform about actions and campaigns in different countries, look for alternatives.
15 Dec 2012 7pm CET time (Central Europe) 6pm GMT (UK,....) 8pm IST (Palestine,.....)
in Mumble, Occupytalk, channel: OPEN SPACE
  • Global Action against the banks 

MINUTES

0.INTRODUCTION
Carminda from Quebec VIA22 - via22global@gmail.com
Dani Seco from 15M Barcelona
Camilla from Occupy Oslo
Jasper from local group in Nijmegen
John from Occupy London and Basel and ...
Mariangela from Politica internacional 15m Madrid  politicainternacional15m@gmail.com
Orsan from Occupy Amsterdam and agora99 and...
Pierre from France  contact.tunes@gmail.com   for contact with the extension team - my personal contact is on the list 
Piran in Berlin
Rami in "Occupy Tunisia"

We define the agenda.

Information point from Rami about the situation 
Rami: There are 3 important points:

First point the political situation in Tunisia
Is misunderstood a lot. It's difficult to explain in short time  but for more than 30 years we couldnt talk about politics. Before the 14J I mean. We have access to the media. 
Very small country 
People know each other
14 January we begin. Social contxt wanted to revolt. The power was devided. 
US lost faith in Ben Ali. Good pupil of IMF and WB
Corrupt family the rich also turn against him
We wanted to make new constitution
We didnt have real opposition
We didnt have time to organise ourselves
So Saudi support the Islamist groups with money
So islamist get the majority
We have a long term perspective to create a new constitution. We are just beginning 
Left had know leadership
Good part of left opposition - they are still in the old mechanismold leader
They dont understand the spirit of our century
I cant speak for the movement on TV
Revolt in Syria. People lost their view
Right now people are revolting
Committe in  Tunisia WSF they say we are the revolution -  this is NOT true
They dont have the tools
We improvised
Not easy there is a lot of work to do
We activst want to work with Occupy movements. We are all the same. 
people who are really revolting are the poor people in the country not in Tunis
Big forces in Tunisia are the CGT - they are v. strong in the revolt
They made revolution inside it
Unions r v. strong in tunisia
There is right now an event, a union anniversary of the death this man they demonstrate and the islamist militia attack CGT and now there is general strike
Its good there is a fight between unions and islamist governement
There is not one group now
We are just beginning
We are not organised
Context is here and the people r ready for it because we didint have the time before
We all know each other if u have any questions i have all the contacts


2nd point WSF:
Orgi is not good at all. 
You see the same people at the head of it for 10 years
They are not all bad people. Lot of good folks too
There is hierarchy. It is not horizontal process
They are also from the Ben ali era
They are the ones that get to the top
there are also some new people, 
The unemployed graduates have made their own orgnisation
A lot of people went out the orgi
He came here he paid 4 it all the peple let it go but we dont wont to let it go they dont want corruption they made a revolution. A lot of us dont want that we are 99%
They ask us to take the money. They gave us part of money to do something on our side. We can do it our way. Each time this happens it doesnt change. Each time same shit happens again. They ask us not to do it. So dont do it. You cant change it from  inside
We try make it right but we have not a lot of time
The coalition is not ready at all
There is a lot of fight. hould have happen in Egypt
WSF want success in Tunisia
Lot of people are not aware there is WSF in Tunisa
We do everything to make it a success
WSF will make it in the campus
They decide it . It will b there
We are late in the work

3rd point is activist in tunisi
People have the power in the hand
There is governor in the region
A lot of people manage to take out the governor in the centre of tunisi
It's shame the WSF is not there
They make the people's assembly in the radical centre of tunisi
They have civic disobedience
They have the good spirit
They be all OK to help you
I give you all the direct contacts
We r not exactly a network. But we all know each other and we all friends
I can tell u everything u want OK

We talk about the information 
1. Are there groups who are trying to organizing something different? How we could connect? 

There is the proposal about working on horizontal methodology, civil desobedience, alternative practising and organize spaces all together. 
Usuall activity we do group activity that r the same. lets put all our activity i am the moderator. its a good comission. We hope that tunisia action will be for free. normally u have to pay for your activity. we dont want to pay for it
so that we can save your money to come to tunisi
Q.Are there groups ready to work with us?
Rami: Political situation still not stable. But it is still possible to do assembly outide the wsf and you will find people to do it with you.
Police will not want to scare foreign activists
It will be possible to have a camp and assemblies in Tunis 

P. Informing about the extended Forum and invited to mobilize. The concept is to involve people who dont go to Tunis and develop initiatives locally. It will be Activities in the forum, in the website you can also tick that the activity is linked with people ouside the forum but also activities outside Tunis (there are 15 already of them) 
the people in Tunis will help the people who are not there to connect with the forum 
Collective communication in the movement 
It will be a good input 
There are people in the same Tunisia not in Tunis who are organizing these kind of meetings 
It's not only an internet thing. There are also local meeting who will have speakers in the WSF 
This could be done in each country 

Rami: I organise the 1st meeting of Dusturna . It means in Arabic Our Constitution
There was a fight in this organisation. We wanted to do a counter power. But we lost it because some people forced the lead to go for the election.
Intern organisation is not horizontal anymore, there is leadership (especially one speak in the name of all the others: jawar ben mbarek) but they are in the participative spirit : writing alternatives togethers. But we have good friends in it we work with 

- deceidin on how long to go with the meeting: 1 more hour...

Daniel: befire I leave to ask lets do not do meeting in the friday evening and do it in the fweek days.

moving on the second point what to do and how? 

Jasper: It looks like we have aot of proposlas on the table. there are proposals. Dani did proposals.. and Camilla also did propose. And there was ides aboutt doing things on the streets, Thatn VIA 22 also wants to do things. we can may be see how to merge or see what can we do?

DAniel: at least we decided to do something. the impression I get. It is also clear it needs to be horiontal, we ned to allow more devate than florence.. it was short so we may do something longer may be all day.. what others think> 

Marita: Iy would be good to hear what has been proposed by those who proposed them,, I think camp is important to be there leaving the camp and connectiong others is good idea. 
Three assemblies in three diff. days is also good idea. we can talk about the contents later, but these are good things to do outside the forum. 

John: What I like to do is a Caravan is a kind of tour of caravan around central Tunis where radical movements are based, where RTami was talking about. 

Basstrass: The idea of presenting the initiatives there are already made I like.  Shall I go presentin Via 22 what do you think? 

Daniel: What I proposed is a result of private conversation as a starting point. bAsed on the experience of Firenze. These can be a starting point the content was more general. The first one  
A group was registered 
Inclusion in Forums Through Assembleary Processes has been registered 
And  3 assemblies. 
The contents of the registered assemblies could be changed 

The objective is to organize a first assembly, of approximately two hours, in the streets of Tunis, following the methods of the social movements, to allow people to take contact with each other, create sinergies and give a human side to the debates of the WSF. This activity would have a continuation with a second and a third part in three different days. Being the first one, it will follow a simple approach that was already worked on the Firenze10+10 Forum: We will divide in small groups to debate on a few question that we would propose. The questions would be the same for all groups, and they would be fairly general like: - "what future do you want to build?" - "how are we going to work to build it?" - "what experience should we learn from for that?" Compile the conclussions of each group.

The objective is to organize a second assembly (of 3, the first proposal is in: http://www.fsm2013.org/en/node/1227), of approximately two hours, in the streets of Tunis, following the methods of the social movements, to allow people to form groups to study particular topics that are transversal to the fights, create sinergies and provide valuable feedback to the WSF. This activity would be second of three in three different days. Being the second one, our intial proposal is to provide a few questions that can yield valuable conclussions and promote the creation of groups to study each question. The questions would be focused on some transversal topics, not within any particular thematic axis of the WSF. For instance, dividing in at least 5 groups with the following debates: group1: - "what can be improved in this WSF? - how can we improve the next WSF?" group2: - "how can my fight link with fights like yours? - who does what you do in my area? - what resources can we share?" group3: - "how can we mix the local and global levels of our fights? - how are we going to extend the process of WSF locally?" group4: - "do we want to support any proposal for where, when and how to have the next meeting / WSF / calendar date? shall we take a message/process like these assemblies to any other forum?" group5: - "what problems of organization do we have as movements? how do we deal with them?" Also, ask all the groups to provide topics for discussion for the third assembly. Compile the conclussions of each group.

The objective is to organize a third assembly (of 3, the first proposal is in: http://www.fsm2013.org/en/node/1227 and the second in: http://www.fsm2013.org/en/node/1229), of approximately two hours, in the streets of Tunis, following the methods of the social movements, to allow for a space of debate on topics to be proposed by the participants of the previous events and for convergence of the conclussions of the previous experiences. This activity would be third of three in three different days. Being the third one, the methodology would be defined on a ongoing process during the other two events.

there is a problem with translation and we have to concentrate on First assembly to jsut to see what we want and the other two more deep 

Camilla: 
The event proposed is from a group in Oslo on how we can get radical democratic changes 
There are many good proposals for the assemblies but the experience is that there is always problems with the time 
1: Information about the event proposed from New Compass http://new-compass.net/news/new-compass-event-world-social-forum 
2: We should ensure that we have enough time in the assemblies to discuss the issues thoroughly. There must be enough time for everyone to speak and for the discussion to go deep. 

Marita: proposal from working group politica internacional 15M, Madrid 

  • First assembly: Concrete expieriences and alternatives built in different spaces and assemblies in 15M/Occupy/Social horizontal and assembleary movements
  • Second assembly: retaking commons (earth, water, services, .....)
  • Third assembly: strategies of impowerment of social struggles facinh oppression and repression of the system


VIA22 is proposing a space . Dont know if inside or outside. The idea is to have a creative openspace to incourage reflexion on how we can collaborate. The WSF is a moment but for us important is what's happening day by day. How we can carry on working together in the movement. We will try to improve different kind of expression and stimulate artistic expression too.

John: I want to talk about prisinors solidairty, ion the UK we have a lot of issues re the respression, like respression on prisoners
... I think it is a big issue globally.

Dani: to reply marita, those can be some of the topics in the assemblies.. but these topic can be not interesting for others. for sure we can give space but not strict the all assembly with one topic... 

Marita UI dont think talking about the commons is a marginal think.. WE all are on this world and prople in the cirties, or indigneous people all are related top commons, one point is how can we take all management of the commons and lif into our hansd reclaiming our lives is imortant issue..? 

Piran:  the point i weant to raise is we have to pay attention to interrelating diferemnt people together, what makes this easy is to put topics what are our problems.. we can aprooach to problems, and how to solcve problems.. than varying experiences enter the picture, for me it is important,, we are going to Tunis, or larger arabic countries, n arevolutionary process, with concrete problems,, if we want to exchange there whould be a space for exchange,, 
instead of concretaizing from now, let it be defined after or during thre exchnge,, so be flexible and give space to exchange. 

Jasper: I agree with Piran..that we should keep the definioton as open as possible for next couple of months, so people can join on thway... I sure there will be many others movements would like to join to the process.. there is agood potential so what ever we do keep it open.. it is also good idea to do something outside the froum. also creative andcolloborative workshops.. it can be learingin process and give chance to do more connections.

Orsan: agreed with Piran  

Basstrass: talking aobut her contact in Montreal and discussiion with activists from .. they were having an autonoumous initiative and some other poeple were coordinating a camp, like a parallel forum that would try to think and actively think adn tools and methodologies, communications and colloborations during the WSF.. ..

Marita: just would like to make a prposal, now we have a lot of input, info from tunis, from prposals, now we go with all this information to our assenblies and other places to discuss about.. and coordinate all these kind of proposals, in order to be altogether..
and invite all other people for the next meeting...

Jasper agrees with moving on practicalities like making our comm chanels clear is the first thing

Mariangela's proposal: to go back to our assemblies with all the proposals made in this pad and meet in a week in order to carry on with the discussion 

Orsan: proposes a facilitating group for the meetings 

John: let's go on with practical issues. 

Jasper suggests organising a new mailig list to deal with all the practic issues for wsf meet

mariangela: propose to use the square list in order to communicate 

Camilla: proposes a new list 

There are proposals on the name of the list: 
moveFSMTunis, 2011move2FSM, wsftunis, 2011move2FSM, 15M - 2011M, 2011M2WSF, Newmov2WSF, 

We dicide to use the one which already exist

Next meeting: tuesday the 18th 2012 at  7 pm GMT