Gracias Roberto and Rita,

For forcing me to look deeper into my views on this terrible situation.

Like Rita, I have already watched the interview kindly sent by Roberto with
Henry Siegman in Democracy Now, adding a human dimension that was lacking
in our polarized debate

About the hypothetical assumption that Hamas would cease to exist (aware
that it factually does exist, not alone, but with its
politcal/religious/financial allies, with its own agendas), Israel would
have to end the occupation of Palestine (and by that I mean to begin, with
the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank).

However, I disagree with Rabbi Siegman´s belief that Hamas would abide by
the decision of a higher Palestinian Authority in that regard. Remember how
was Fata folk removed from Gaza by Hamas? I wish he were right but fear it
is not that simple. In the end, good people are at loss with the cruelties
of 'realpolitik'!

I look forward one day to meet with members of the jewish-israeli and
palestinian branches of my family, looking back at how the politicians and
rulers of the world were unable to solve the israeli-palestinian tragic
conflict - without neglect to what have we learned from two world wars in
the past century, witnessing the growth of the political righ, neo-fascism
and neo-Nazism in todays' European countries.

Abrazo
Azril

Whether the current government of Israel and the Hamas leadership are ready
or not to make peace with each other, I believe that the majority of the
world population are fed up with this ongoing violent mess and protracted
conflict.






On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Rita Freire <ritafreir@...> wrote:

> Thank you very much dear Roberto, for this material (
> http://www.democracynow.org/appearances/henry_siegman ) I've watched the
> Henry Siegman interview, also the Ilan Pappe interview,  whose are being
> to me sources of essential informations and analyses, helping me to minimal
> understand what kind of minds move Israel deeply into these atrocities.
>
>  I received  a video  with a collection of statements of former leaders of
> Israel on their thinking about the Palestinians, and them seem scary
> along all the historiy of the sionism. I dont share it with you because I
> am afraid that the collection contains something that is not true. I
> actually would be happy if it were not true. But the Henry Siegmen
> interview made me consider the veracity of them.
>
> On the other hand, to my friend Azril, I turn to the thought of a Brazilian
> professor, Salem Nasser, speaking about the attacks and Hamas. He said.  let's
> pretend that Hamas does not exist. In this case, does Israel  end the
> occupation? Does Israel  end his advance over Palestinian lands?. The
> answer is no. And so, Hamas is just an excuse and not the real motivation for
> the attacks. Moreover, as Henry Siegman has well said in the interview,
> Hamas is against the existence of the State of Israel, but Hamas is not a
> government and it would be required to submit to the decisions of  it's
> government, if it were a government with popular support and with their
> participation (I was being fitted), considered the end of the criminal
> occupation. This should be a real solution you ask for. But Israel doesn't
> want it, infortunatelly.
>
> On the issue of the contracts with Israel, Azril, you're absolutely right. As
> people who are outside Palestine I think we should start by denouncing
> them and ask them to be broken by countries and boycotted by society. You
> also have reason in talking about the Brazil -Israel contracts. But it's
> no a taboo. All social movements in Brazil know and are denouncing the
> contracts. The BDS campaign in Brazil is focusing these contracts. We also
> advocate the end of the Mercosur-Israel FTA.
>
> About the future solution for Palestine, if two or one state with full
> citizenship, I think we should support what would be claimed by the Palestinian
> people internationally. What matters now is to cease the slaughter and
> occupation, and I know that we have agreement on this point.
>
> The article shared by Fatma shows how the Palestinian peoples have to
> resist for surviving, with all their forces and with our solidarity
> forces  too.
>
> I think the WSF organizations  should speak out against the massacre of Gaza,
> strongly acting to support the BDS campaign.
>
> Regards
> Rita
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:
>
>> In the end, fundamentalists in both parties wish to eliminate "the other:"
>>
>> And that is a case of "reciprocal genocide"!!!
>>
>> Is that what the WSF is about for some of us? To "morally" justify the
>> "eye by eye" strategy, which according to Gandhi makes us all blind in the
>> end? It seems now to be the case, that some of us are being blinded by the
>> horror of this situation and trapped by it.
>>
>> The challenge is how to trascend this awful violent trap in a just,
>> human, decent and viable way, acceptable (not enforced on) to all those
>> implied - and aboslutely NOT by 'demonizing the other,' whom ever it might
>> be.
>>
>> So, the Israeli Government wants to eliminate - and Hamas wants to
>> eliminate Israel.
>>
>> Is that the end of the story?
>>
>> Azril
>> ______
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Fatma Alloo <falloo@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/08/a-zionist-demanding-genocide-.html
>>>
>>>  A Zionist Demanding Genocide
>>>
>>> One would think that a sad, sorry history of ones own people would
>>> create some sensitivity towards other people. But it does not. At least
>>> some people rather seem to take the horrors their ancestors had to endure
>>> as behavioral guidance for their own attitude towards other people in
>>> similar sorry circumstances.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bigger
>>>
>>> The *Times of Israel* now removed the piece (image of full text, full
>>> text on pastebin) from its website but it is still up at the U.S. paper *5
>>> Towns Jewish Times* and the writer is defending it on Twitter (
>>> screenshot):
>>>
>>> 5 Ceasefires all breached through missiles and kidnappings. There is
>>> only one way to neutralize the threat. Wake-up!
>>>
>>> Some core sentences of the screed:
>>>
>>> What other way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other
>>> than obliterate them completely?
>>> ...
>>> If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to
>>> achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then
>>> permissible to achieve those responsible goals?
>>>
>>> In the 1930s/40s Reinhard Heidrich and some other mass murderers agreed
>>> with the author of the piece and answered those questions in the
>>> affirmative.
>>>
>>> Judging from online comments by Israel supporters many of them would
>>> support at least the thrust of the piece. There is also another piece
>>> calling for genocide at the *Times of Israel* site:
>>>
>>> Just as the Amalekites were the victims of their own king, whom Saul
>>> left alive and why today, we fight the modern day Amalekites in every
>>> generation.
>>>
>>> It’s time to take heed of the words of the L-rd, it is time to do what
>>> the people of Israel demand, it is time to kill Agag.
>>>
>>> Calling to *genocide* Palestinians is seemingly not just a singular
>>> opinion. Why then was one genocidal piece removed by the*Times of
>>> Israel* while others are still up?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>>
>>
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