• Communication commission discussion

  • Re: [WSF-Discuss] Mazigh on Paris: The false debate between freedom of expression and religious extremism

    from Azril Bacal on Jan 14, 2015 12:14 PM
    Dear Comrades,
    What about trying to make some sense on the massive array of reactive and
    more serious reflexions concerning the recent violent events in Paris?
    1) One crime does not condone another! Violence creates more violence!
    Poverty and Social Inequality are manifestations of Structural Violence!
    Remember Camus' "Les Justes"?
    2) Justice is a pre-condition to freedom for all, not for the few
    priviledged elites.
    As Sartre reminded us: One is not free until everyone else is free!
    3) The injustice, injury and scars of 500 years of the colonial conquest
    and legacy are not erased in one night!
    It is not a film in black & white: Some Arabs and Africans actively helped
    to slave their fellow men and women. The "compradore" class is full of
    Malinches, Felipillos and you name it to this very day, where most
    governments do not represent the needs and hopes of the people they rule -
    but rather the greedy and destructive interests of corporate multinationals
    and financial bucaneers.
    4) Another Possible World of Justice, Freedom, Equality and Love
    (Solidarity) is under construction, malgrait tout!
    amidst the violent farewell of the prevailing kapitalist/neoliberal
    dystopia and its fundamentalist lackeys, fakely religious and/or secular
    liberals.
    God if he/she exists does not need assassins to protect him/her!
    Azril
    
    On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:08 AM, Brian K. Murphy <brian@...>
    wrote:
    
    >
    >  *http://rabble.ca/columnists/2015/01/false-debate-between-freedom-exp
    > <http://rabble.ca/columnists/2015/01/false-debate-between-freedom-exp>ression-and-religious-extremism*
    > *The false debate between freedom of expression and religious extremism*
    > By Monia Mazigh* | rabble.ca <http://rabble.ca> |* January 9, 2015
    >
    > Reading news coverage about the recent attacks on the French satirical
    > magazine* Charlie Hebdo* left me with many unanswered and uncomfortable
    > questions. A very complex French, European and international event was
    > summarized with simplistic headlines such us: "How remarkable that a humour
    > magazine has led the fight against fanaticism" or "Paris attack illustrates
    > the power of mockery."
    >
    > After the deadly attack, many cartoonists reduced the event to a
    > confrontation between an armed, bearded jihadist and a pen. A simple
    > representation, yet it is both powerful and misleading.
    >
    > After the 9/11 terrorist attacks, George W. Bush and many like-minded
    > politicians and media outlets confined the attacks to a fight between evil
    > (the "Islamic terrorists") and good (the United States and its allies), or
    > between the free world (led by the United States) and oppression (led by
    > Al-Qaeda and the Taliban).
    >
    > When Bush famously proclaimed "you are either with us or you're with the
    > terrorists," he truly believed that he had received a divine message to
    > liberate Muslim countries from oppression. He consequently built all of his
    > political and war strategies around this sort of "prophecy."
    >
    > Meanwhile, all the dissident voices that denounced this dangerous war were
    > silenced, labelled anti-patriots, and accused of siding with the extremists
    > (remember the "Taliban Jack" label satirically attributed to the late Jack
    > Layton by the Harper government).
    >
    > Today, after many years of a failed "war on terror," numerous scandals
    > about abuse of political power, torture and indefinite detention, people
    > have come to realize that this dichotomy is false and that security for all
    > can't be achieved without respect of human dignity for all.
    >
    > *Unpacking the layers of a tragic event*
    > Following in the footsteps of Bush, French President Francois Hollande,
    > his friends, as well as many media outlets, want to reduce tragic events to
    > a fight between the enlightened French freedom of expression and barbaric
    > fighters affiliated with Islamic groups. Even if this seems the case from
    > outside, there happen to be many layers behind the event that shouldn't be
    > ignored if one wants to conduct a serious and honest analysis.
    >
    > Without giving any reason or excuse for the use of violence against
    > journalists -- which is not acceptable under any circumstances -- one
    > should remember that France is at war in many Islamic countries: in Iraq,
    > in Afghanistan, in Mali... Even if the human costs of these wars are not
    > always clear to the French masses, as civilian casualties are not always
    > reported in the headlines, there is a lot of resentment within the local
    > population with regard to these policies. This resentment travels very well
    > within the French Muslim community.
    >
    > Moreover, France has a heavy colonial, racist and violent past with Muslim
    > countries like Algeria, for instance (one can only state here the
    > assassination and torture campaign against Algerian dissidents). The large
    > wounds of the Algerian war of liberation -- a struggle that ended costing
    > Algerians a million lives -- never healed, even more than half a century
    > later.
    >
    > Furthermore, the relationship between France and its Muslim population,
    > estimated today to be close to 10 per cent, has never been an easy one. The
    > ghettos surrounding Paris and other big cities, the violent riots between
    > police and unemployed youth from marginalized North African communities,
    > speak for themselves.
    >
    > The concerns raised recently by some French politicians with respect to
    > French prisons that are crowded with Muslims, a number estimated to be
    > around 40,000 prisoners representing 60 per cent of the prison population,
    > are real. Many see in these prisons the breeding ground for a new class of
    > resentful and disillusioned Muslim groups that are vulnerable to political
    > violence.
    >
    > It is not a simple coincidence that about 700 French citizens travelled to
    > the Middle East to join the ranks of the Islamic State. One of the reasons
    > behind this phenomenon is the counter-reaction expressed by some youth to
    > their lack of integration and their marginalization by French society.
    >
    > But most importantly, the powerful concept of secularism, used so well by
    > many French politicians as a political tool to justify controversial
    > policies, is at the heart of the issue. When banning the religious veil
    > worn by Muslim girls in public school was introduced by the French
    > government in the '90s, secularism was widely evoked. The Muslim French
    > population's concerns with respect to freedom of religion were brushed off.
    > Later, when another related law was introduced to ban the burqa in public
    > spaces (even though the estimated number of women wearing it in France was
    > estimated to be around 1,900 in 2009), once again, the "sacred" principle
    > of secularism was evoked and the many voices who tried to argue with this
    > controversial law were mocked as defending the oppression of women and
    > obscurantism.
    >  *Defending 'freedom of expression'*
    > Freedom of expression, a noble concept, came to be perceived by many
    > marginalized French Muslim youth as an empty slogan used by the powerful
    > elite to justify the silencing of Muslims and to allow the right-wing to
    > bash Muslims at will. This in turn created a feeling of victimhood among
    > many disfranchised youth.
    >
    > The debate should not be about freedom of expression and extremism. The
    > real debate should be about France and how it deals with its Muslim
    > population. Attacking and killing journalists is highly symbolic, as was
    > the attack on the Twin Towers in New York. Why are the media and
    > politicians pushing us to choose a side: liberty or oppression, freedom of
    > expression or violence, secularism or religion?
    >
    > In their pursuit to make us choose the "right" option, politicians and
    > media pundits create a new holy entity called freedom of expression. It
    > becomes another sacred, holy, untouchable "cow." Another religious concept
    > which if you're "killed" promoting, you become a "martyr."
    >
    > When Edward Snowden leaked classified NSA documents that implicated the
    > United States and its allies in many scandals, the concept of "freedom of
    > expression" was completely rejected by these governments. Many journalists
    > in the U.S., and even some in Canada, sided with their governments and were
    > not sympathetic to his plight.
    >
    > The freedom of expression that everyone nowadays rushes to defend is not
    > as simple to understand or to practice. The same thing can be said about
    > religion. Why do we have to choose between one or the other, or accept a
    > self-serving version of both?
    >  *Monia Mazigh* was born and raised in Tunisia and immigrated to Canada
    > in 1991. Mazigh was catapulted onto the public stage in 2002 when her
    > husband, Maher Arar, was deported to Syria where he was tortured and held
    > without charge for over a year. She campaigned tirelessly for his release.
    > Mazigh holds a PhD in finance from McGill University. In 2008, she
    > published a memoir,* Hope and Despair*, about her pursuit of justice, and
    > recently, a novel about Muslim women,* Mirrors and Mirages*. You can
    > follow her on Twitter @MoniaMazigh or on her blog www.moniamazigh.com
    >  **********
    > *See also:*
    >
    > *Paris: Little and Big Monsters*
    > *Glen Ford and Paul Jay discuss the march against terrorism in Paris and
    > the participation of leaders of countries who have committed and encouraged
    > various forms of terrorism and war crimes*
    > January 13, 2015
    >
    > *Watch full interview here:**
    > http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view
    > <http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view>&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12988*
    >
    >  *Read Transcript*:
    > *http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view
    > <http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view>&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12988*
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > ** WSFDiscuss is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of
    > information and views on the experience, practise, and theory of the World
    > Social Forum at any level (local, national, regional, and global) and on
    > related social and political movements and issues.  Join in !**
    > _______________________________________________
    > WSFDiscuss mailing list
    > POST to LIST : Send email to WorldSocialForum-Discuss@...
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    >
    
    
    
    Thread Outline:
  • Fwd: [WSF-Discuss] Mazigh on Paris: The false debate between freedom of expression and religious extremism

    from Azril Bacal on Jan 15, 2015 10:17 AM
    Queridos amigos,
    Les adjunto mi humilde opinión frente al desborde de comentarios sobre lo
    que viene ocurriendo en Paris y en el "mundo libre".
    Un problema radica en la necesidad de deslindar los Al Qaidas de este mundo
    de las raíces estructurales de la violencia estructural y manifiesta de
    nuestros días. En otras palabras, entre la histeria de la "prensa" libre y
    la "justificación" de los defensores de sus creencias, valores y dioses
    amenazados.
    Cual es nuestro rol en esa salsa? - añadir a la polarización maniquesísta
    del mundo - o dar una salida sensata, justa, de largo aliento, que ponga
    coto a la violencia desatada y que amenaza alimentar la espiral de
    brutalización en la cual estamos inmersos, a veces en términos de la "línea
    correcta".
    Abrazos fraternales,
    Azril
    ____________
    
    Dear Compañer@s,
    What about trying to make some sense on the massive array of reactive and
    more serious reflexions concerning the recent violent events in Paris?
    1) One crime does not condone another! Violence creates more violence!
    Poverty and Social Inequality are manifestations of Structural Violence!
    Remember Camus' "Les Justes"?
    2) Justice is a pre-condition to freedom for all, not for the few
    priviledged elites.
    As Sartre reminded us: One is not free until everyone else is free!
    3) The injustice, injury and scars of 500 years of the colonial conquest
    and legacy are not erased in one night!
    It is not a film in black & white: Some Arabs and Africans actively helped
    to slave their fellow men and women. The "compradore" class is full of
    Malinches, Felipillos and you name it to this very day, where most
    governments do not represent the needs and hopes of the people they rule -
    but rather the greedy and destructive interests of corporate multinationals
    and financial bucaneers.
    4) Another Possible World of Justice, Freedom, Equality and Love
    (Solidarity) is under construction, malgrait tout!
    amidst the violent farewell of the prevailing kapitalist/neoliberal
    dystopia and its fundamentalist lackeys, fakely religious and/or secular
    liberals.
    God if he/she exists does not need assassins to protect him/her!
    Azril
    
    On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:08 AM, Brian K. Murphy <brian@...>
    wrote:
    
    >
    >  *http://rabble.ca/columnists/2015/01/false-debate-between-freedom-exp
    > <http://rabble.ca/columnists/2015/01/false-debate-between-freedom-exp>ression-and-religious-extremism*
    > *The false debate between freedom of expression and religious extremism*
    > By Monia Mazigh* | rabble.ca <http://rabble.ca> |* January 9, 2015
    >
    > Reading news coverage about the recent attacks on the French satirical
    > magazine* Charlie Hebdo* left me with many unanswered and uncomfortable
    > questions. A very complex French, European and international event was
    > summarized with simplistic headlines such us: "How remarkable that a humour
    > magazine has led the fight against fanaticism" or "Paris attack illustrates
    > the power of mockery."
    >
    > After the deadly attack, many cartoonists reduced the event to a
    > confrontation between an armed, bearded jihadist and a pen. A simple
    > representation, yet it is both powerful and misleading.
    >
    > After the 9/11 terrorist attacks, George W. Bush and many like-minded
    > politicians and media outlets confined the attacks to a fight between evil
    > (the "Islamic terrorists") and good (the United States and its allies), or
    > between the free world (led by the United States) and oppression (led by
    > Al-Qaeda and the Taliban).
    >
    > When Bush famously proclaimed "you are either with us or you're with the
    > terrorists," he truly believed that he had received a divine message to
    > liberate Muslim countries from oppression. He consequently built all of his
    > political and war strategies around this sort of "prophecy."
    >
    > Meanwhile, all the dissident voices that denounced this dangerous war were
    > silenced, labelled anti-patriots, and accused of siding with the extremists
    > (remember the "Taliban Jack" label satirically attributed to the late Jack
    > Layton by the Harper government).
    >
    > Today, after many years of a failed "war on terror," numerous scandals
    > about abuse of political power, torture and indefinite detention, people
    > have come to realize that this dichotomy is false and that security for all
    > can't be achieved without respect of human dignity for all.
    >
    > *Unpacking the layers of a tragic event*
    > Following in the footsteps of Bush, French President Francois Hollande,
    > his friends, as well as many media outlets, want to reduce tragic events to
    > a fight between the enlightened French freedom of expression and barbaric
    > fighters affiliated with Islamic groups. Even if this seems the case from
    > outside, there happen to be many layers behind the event that shouldn't be
    > ignored if one wants to conduct a serious and honest analysis.
    >
    > Without giving any reason or excuse for the use of violence against
    > journalists -- which is not acceptable under any circumstances -- one
    > should remember that France is at war in many Islamic countries: in Iraq,
    > in Afghanistan, in Mali... Even if the human costs of these wars are not
    > always clear to the French masses, as civilian casualties are not always
    > reported in the headlines, there is a lot of resentment within the local
    > population with regard to these policies. This resentment travels very well
    > within the French Muslim community.
    >
    > Moreover, France has a heavy colonial, racist and violent past with Muslim
    > countries like Algeria, for instance (one can only state here the
    > assassination and torture campaign against Algerian dissidents). The large
    > wounds of the Algerian war of liberation -- a struggle that ended costing
    > Algerians a million lives -- never healed, even more than half a century
    > later.
    >
    > Furthermore, the relationship between France and its Muslim population,
    > estimated today to be close to 10 per cent, has never been an easy one. The
    > ghettos surrounding Paris and other big cities, the violent riots between
    > police and unemployed youth from marginalized North African communities,
    > speak for themselves.
    >
    > The concerns raised recently by some French politicians with respect to
    > French prisons that are crowded with Muslims, a number estimated to be
    > around 40,000 prisoners representing 60 per cent of the prison population,
    > are real. Many see in these prisons the breeding ground for a new class of
    > resentful and disillusioned Muslim groups that are vulnerable to political
    > violence.
    >
    > It is not a simple coincidence that about 700 French citizens travelled to
    > the Middle East to join the ranks of the Islamic State. One of the reasons
    > behind this phenomenon is the counter-reaction expressed by some youth to
    > their lack of integration and their marginalization by French society.
    >
    > But most importantly, the powerful concept of secularism, used so well by
    > many French politicians as a political tool to justify controversial
    > policies, is at the heart of the issue. When banning the religious veil
    > worn by Muslim girls in public school was introduced by the French
    > government in the '90s, secularism was widely evoked. The Muslim French
    > population's concerns with respect to freedom of religion were brushed off.
    > Later, when another related law was introduced to ban the burqa in public
    > spaces (even though the estimated number of women wearing it in France was
    > estimated to be around 1,900 in 2009), once again, the "sacred" principle
    > of secularism was evoked and the many voices who tried to argue with this
    > controversial law were mocked as defending the oppression of women and
    > obscurantism.
    >  *Defending 'freedom of expression'*
    > Freedom of expression, a noble concept, came to be perceived by many
    > marginalized French Muslim youth as an empty slogan used by the powerful
    > elite to justify the silencing of Muslims and to allow the right-wing to
    > bash Muslims at will. This in turn created a feeling of victimhood among
    > many disfranchised youth.
    >
    > The debate should not be about freedom of expression and extremism. The
    > real debate should be about France and how it deals with its Muslim
    > population. Attacking and killing journalists is highly symbolic, as was
    > the attack on the Twin Towers in New York. Why are the media and
    > politicians pushing us to choose a side: liberty or oppression, freedom of
    > expression or violence, secularism or religion?
    >
    > In their pursuit to make us choose the "right" option, politicians and
    > media pundits create a new holy entity called freedom of expression. It
    > becomes another sacred, holy, untouchable "cow." Another religious concept
    > which if you're "killed" promoting, you become a "martyr."
    >
    > When Edward Snowden leaked classified NSA documents that implicated the
    > United States and its allies in many scandals, the concept of "freedom of
    > expression" was completely rejected by these governments. Many journalists
    > in the U.S., and even some in Canada, sided with their governments and were
    > not sympathetic to his plight.
    >
    > The freedom of expression that everyone nowadays rushes to defend is not
    > as simple to understand or to practice. The same thing can be said about
    > religion. Why do we have to choose between one or the other, or accept a
    > self-serving version of both?
    >  *Monia Mazigh* was born and raised in Tunisia and immigrated to Canada
    > in 1991. Mazigh was catapulted onto the public stage in 2002 when her
    > husband, Maher Arar, was deported to Syria where he was tortured and held
    > without charge for over a year. She campaigned tirelessly for his release.
    > Mazigh holds a PhD in finance from McGill University. In 2008, she
    > published a memoir,* Hope and Despair*, about her pursuit of justice, and
    > recently, a novel about Muslim women,* Mirrors and Mirages*. You can
    > follow her on Twitter @MoniaMazigh or on her blog www.moniamazigh.com
    >  **********
    > *See also:*
    >
    > *Paris: Little and Big Monsters*
    > *Glen Ford and Paul Jay discuss the march against terrorism in Paris and
    > the participation of leaders of countries who have committed and encouraged
    > various forms of terrorism and war crimes*
    > January 13, 2015
    >
    > *Watch full interview here:**
    > http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view
    > <http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view>&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12988*
    >
    >  *Read Transcript*:
    > *http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view
    > <http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view>&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12988*
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > ** WSFDiscuss is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of
    > information and views on the experience, practise, and theory of the World
    > Social Forum at any level (local, national, regional, and global) and on
    > related social and political movements and issues.  Join in !**
    > _______________________________________________
    > WSFDiscuss mailing list
    > POST to LIST : Send email to WorldSocialForum-Discuss@...
    > SUBSCRIBE: Send empty email to
    > worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe@...
    > UNSUBSCRIBE: Send empty email to
    > worldsocialforum-discuss-unsubscribe@...
    > LIST ARCHIVES:
    > http://openspaceforum.net/pipermail/worldsocialforum-discuss_openspaceforum.net/
    > LIST INFORMATION:
    > http://openspaceforum.net/mailman/listinfo/worldsocialforum-discuss_openspaceforum.net
    >