Dear Chris,
Surprised yet very glad to receive your voice from the back and inside the
tent.
Just in case, it was not clear, the event we are talking about is the
International Sociology Forum in Porto Alegre, Brazil, 14-18 July 2020.
We this in mind, we thought of starting a dialogue to unblock the current
polarization of positions, due to whatever factors ("political,"
ideological and/or ego rivalries). Time will say whether we succeed or not.
By reading the abstracts one is forced to actually "read" the arguments,
prior to a reflex reaction or a self-gratulatory sense of political
correctness.
Warm regards from a cold rainy Sweden.
Azril
_______


On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 1:18 PM chris williams <will0447@...>
wrote:

> Dear Francine and Azril
>
> Don't be surprised by this voice from the back, but not outside, of the
> tent.
> I sometimes contribute to Ciranda, and I must be equally puzzling to the
> Brazilians.
>
> I can only tremble at the emotional distress being felt by many involved in
> this cuurent review - I hope you two are OK.
>
> Montreal had to happen, warts and all.  Have first-world WSF venues ever
> worked, with the political antagonisms (eg withheld visas) and costs?
> Montreal had to test this, on behalf of all other possible first-world
> venues,
> and the betterment of WSF/FSM as a whole. Hoping to see you in Barcelona,
> next
> June.
>
> 'Political/politics' seems to be an increasing discussion point, but I feel
> many are talking at cross-purposes.  We should monitor/fix our language
> usage
> as 2020 approaches.  Example: Green New Deal is an internal US Democratic
> Party construct in the leadup to their 2020 Presidential elections.  What
> am I
> to make of an India-based activist who promotes GND as part of WSFTE2020?
> As
> a political construct, it doesn't work outside continental USA, unless WSF
> wishes to expand it into a 'world political construct'.
>
> Talk of rivalries must puzzle many who are not involved in the day-to-day,
> argy-bargy of IC.  On the Left, our MO is solidarity.  Rivalry implies
> extensive, wasted efforts to protect turf and/or ego, by the precious or
> the
> antagonistic.  Toughen up.
>
> Enough said,
> in solidarity
> chris
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> On Oct 07, 2019 01:19 PM, Azril Bacal wrote:
> > Dear Francine,
> > Thank you very much for your reaction!!!
> > It is not me to "allow" your response. It was my aim to trigger dialogue,
> > and that why I copied the alluded mail to you.
> > Your reflections are valuable, valued and warmly welcomed in my humble
> eyes.
> > In other words, our dialogue has already began as intended with Erik's
> and
> > your feedback.
> > My preliminary answer is that irrespective of my views on ego-imperialism
> > and the role of the human factor in the ongoing debate on the future of
> the
> > social forum/the future social forum, "fundamental political conflict" is
> > managed in different ways, ranging from "confrontational" -vs- dialogical
> > ways, from Robespierre and Stalin's ways - to Gandhi, Martin Luther King,
> > Jr., César Chávez and Greta Thunberg.
> > While not able to attend the last IC sessions because of lack of funds or
> > hospitalization, I did read everything I could concerning the arguments
> and
> > disputes.
> > What I learned from the Montreal meeting made me glad not to attend it! I
> > understood then that if the human factor is nor dealt with and resolved
> the
> > whole WSF process goes kaput.
> > The success to bring together the "two" (maybe more) strands of thinking
> > concerning the WSF ultimately depends on each and all of us.
> > Even Mao distinguished between fundamental and non-fundamental
> > contradictions!
> > Should we do like king Salomon suggested and cut the baby in two forums
> to
> > please both contending "mothers"? 😁
> > Should we throw the baby with the water?
> > I wished to be wrong concerning the role played by the "human factor" in
> > this conflict, I really do, dear Francine!
> > I wish Many Wallerstein, Aníbal Quijano, and Samir Amin were alive to
> > enrich our dialogue!
> > Abrazo
> > /Azril
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 11:52 PM francine mestrum <mestrum@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Azril,
> > >
> > > Allow me to react to your email to Jennifer (whom  I do not know, my
> > > apologies).
> > >
> > > I more particularly want to react to this:
> > >
> > > “the impasse between a chorus of voices that endanger the survival and
> > > sustainability of the only existing Planetarian open space where
> organized
> > > civil society (social movements and NGOs) are able to meet, exchange
> > > views,
> learn from each other, support each other, articulate actions,
> > > and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, at present time, differences of opinion have escalated
> to
> > > the level of rivalry and worse among key players in the WSF process.
> In my
> > > humble view, this situation owes more to ego-imperialism than to
> > > ideological or theoretical discrepancies. We, humans, are no easy
> stuff! “
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The WSF, dear Azril, is endangered by a fundamental political conflict,
> > > not by ego-imperialism and only very marginally by ideology.
> > >
> > > I belong to a ‘chorus of voices’ that believes the WSF can only be
> > > relevant if it has a political voice, if it can give voice to worldwide
> > > resistances, and if it can start to shape alternatives. The other
> ‘chorus
> > > of voices’ believes it is enough to have an ‘open space’ where all can
> > > come
> and do their thing, go home and be happy about so many new contacts
> > > and
> about the feelings of solidarity.
> > >
> > > In a world with clearly emerging fascism, with declining
> multilateralism,
> > > democracy and human rights, we believe this cannot be sufficient. It
> is a
> > > conflict between those who believe that workshops on hiphop, the role
> of
> > > sports for the emancipation of women and local commons are witnesses of
> > > the
> vitality of local communities, and these local communities are the
> > > ‘new
> world’, while transnational finance and corporations continue to
> > > rule the
> world and shape the conditions in which local communities can
> > > live. They
> are faced with those who believe these local communities are
> > > important, but
> if they are to flourish, we will also have to tackle the
> > > global forces, we
> will have to change the framework in which local
> > > communities can organize
> themselves.
> > >
> > > It is a conflict between those who want to change the lives of people,
> and
> > > those who want to also change the world. The WSF should be, we think
> about
> > > ‘Another world is possible’, not only ‘another life is possible’.
> > >
> > > My ‘chorus of voices’ believes the ‘open market space’ of local
> > > initiatives should continue to exist, but next to it, there should be
> > > political debates and their should be a political voice that speaks to
> the
> > > world. The WSF is indeed the only gathering with a potential to do
> this.
> > > If
> not, the last intellectuals who come to the forum will also leave it,
> > > as
> have so many before them. We want the WSF to be politically relevant.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, the other ‘chorus of voices’ is afraid of politics,
> > > believes the left right divide ceased to exist and hence does not see
> the
> > > need for the WSF to have a voice. They want a world unchanged, where
> > > activists are killed in silence, where local groups can whisper their
> > > resistance.
> > >
> > > You probably are not aware of these fundamental divergences, Azril,
> since
> > > it is several years now you have not been in an IC meeting. If you
> succeed
> > > in bringing together these two strands of thinking in Porto Alegre, you
> > > will have done a great job.
> > >
> > > But please do not present it as a struggle of ego’s, that is simply not
> > > correct.
> > >
> > > Warmly,
> > >
> > > Francine Mestrum
> > >
> > > Op 06/10/2019 om 19:59 schreef Azril Bacal:
> > >
> > > the impasse between a chorus of voices that endanger the survival and
> > > sustainability of the only existing Planetarian open space where
> organized
> > > civil society (social movements and NGOs) are able to meet, exchange
> > > views,
> learn from each other, support each other, articulate actions,
> > > and so on.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, at present time, differences of opinion have escalated
> to
> > > the level of rivalry and worse among key players in the WSF process.
> In my
> > > humble view, this situation owes more to ego-imperialism than to
> > > ideological or theoretical discrepancies. We, humans, are no easy
> stuff!
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
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