• minutes cs 1 sept

last modified September 2, 2010 by facilitfsm

Log of chat comcom meeting  sept1

see jason's invitation message here

see input  from pierre  sent  before the meeting  based on jason's message:

Start. 2

framing  from Nicolas. 3

on additional fundraising. 4

on priorities for 2011 2012 ?. 4

consolidate – not create new areas. 4

on international thematic seminar. 4

on Dabase management : a sensitive issue !. 5

Where is the reference document of comcom project sent to IC ?. 5

on journalist database, participant database  discussion on development of “official website”. 5

Listing “what” should be done –. 6

on impact of registration module on what should be done after Dakar. 6

On need to work/exchange with Dakar and sao Paulo office on registration data/module. 7

on expanded group. 7

about impact on registration module on lines of work of comcom.. 7

On need to work/exchange with Dakar and sao Paulo office on registration data/module (2). 8

on what does the “coverage” items cover ?. 8

on Expanded after Dakar  -. 9

on current status of  Dakar expanded  working group. 9

Four areas of Jason. 9

A vision on how to proceed. 10

proposing listing the existing working groups. 10

on wsftv item.. 10

on websites and expanded initiative groups. 10

on press group. 10

inputs to come from rita. 10

working on the list until 6th. 10

About Memory. 11

Leaving. 11



[17:06:25] Jason: Hola - Bonjour - Hello!  We're about to start our communication commission meeting.  Who is here?

[17:07:09] nicolas : hello

[17:07:30] Rita : Hola Jason, hola Nicolas

[17:08:02] maipoy: Ciao everyone

[17:08:38] Jason: Ciao Claudia, Rita, Nicolas!

[17:09:06] thaís chita: olas, a todos.

[17:09:36] Martina ciao cari! after a long silence, I'm here just to learn at which point is the Com Com adventure :)

[17:10:39] maipoy: I've also been away for long but i read that things have been moving well, so well done!!

[17:12:29] Jason: Welcome back Martina!  Good to hear from you. Mallory should also be joining, as well as Igor, Antonio and Monica.  Hopefully also Norma.

[17:12:47] Martina bene!

[17:13:45] Jason: So let's wait just a few more minutes and then start.

[17:16:24] Paco: Hello ciao a tutte e tutti

[17:19:14] Jason: Ciao Antonio!  ok - since we don't have much time, we should set the agenda for today.  Have you all read the email exchanges in the last week?

[17:20:04] Pierre: oi, and a recent input ..


based on jason's message

[17:22:52] Hilde  [hello everyone, I am also like Martina here to catch up on what's happening (though I won't be able to stay long)]

[17:23:02] Igor . Palakot: hi, I'm still have meeting with hellio... I'll be with you very soon

[17:25:24] *** Jason a invité monifono ***

[17:28:34] monifono: Here I am, sorry for the delay. Hugs to all

[17:33:39] andrea1834: Hi everyone, Andrea from Berlin - lately also active with wsftv has also joined.  Antonio invited me to join - I am preparing to film at the migrants march in Dakar among other things

[17:35:10] Paco: ciao Andrea thanks to come

[17:41:49] normafer: Hola, est{an ah{i?

framing  from Nicolas

[17:22:29] Jason: The main discussion is about answering the request from the Resources commission to start planning for 2011-2012 and to set out priorities to be translated into a budget.  We have a deadline for the 10th of September to have the main figures so that Nicolas can work on the general budget proposal. 

So... who wants to start?

 [17:24:44] Jason: Maybe Nicolas can give us a few "terms of reference" on how he intends to approach the budget issue and how he's dealing with the other commissions?

 [17:25:29] nicolas : ok, if you want, a few elements for the 'background' of this process.

first, the Resources Commission is responsible for raising funds for the WSF process. it should also 'support' fundraising activities for the event - but here, we're talking about the process - i.e. everything that is not directly related to Dakar, which should be included / is already included in the event budget (mediacenter, etc.)

second, this follows conversation we had in Mexico, Detroit and Dakar, within the RC and between RC members and ComCom members - the same process happening with every other commission and the Liaison Group

the terms of references can be summarized as follows :

 1) the comcom project for the next 2 years should obviously be based on the report made in Mexico and on the comments made by other IC members (like putting the stress on articulating existing tools rather than developing new ones)

2) over the last year(s) the ComCom had a budget that was much higher than the other commissions - which is connected to the projects from these past years (developing tools requires resources) and to the fact that most of other commissions have more simple budgets (meetings and a bit of staff)

so the RC has said that if any commission would have a budget that is much higher than the budgets of other commissions, it couldn't endorse the responsibility of raising all the funds

because 3rd point is the current weakness and worrying financial situation of the WSF process : it is depending 99,99% on novib, and novib has clearly said that they cannot go ahead with the same amounts than they used to, which explains my last mail giving the shape of what the comcom project could formally look like

(last thing : yes it should be a 2years budget - ie 2011 and 2012)


[17:32:40] Rita: Thanks Nicolas!

[17:32:49] Paco: grazie

[17:33:19] Mallory : good overview

 [17:34:20] maipoy: most exhaustive, thanks

[17:34:54] Jason: [Hi Mallory, Andrea!]

on additional fundraising

Merci Nicolas.  Your point 2 does not exclude that the commission can fundraise additionally for shared projects, informing the Resources com, correct?

 [17:36:37] nicolas : @jason : no, clearly not - the only issue would be to find a way to make it easy for fundraisers to understand, and to avoid the RC fundraising activities and the comcom specific one to be concurrencing one another

on priorities for 2011 2012 ?

[17:39:10] Rita : Then, do we have do especify what we have to priorize as com com project for 2011-2012? What is to include, what not.

[17:41:32] Jason: ok - I have already given my view on how to approach this in the mailing list.  Given the uncertainty of what will be of the WSF after Dakar (no real discussion has taken place in this sense, and most probably 2012 will be an "interim" year where communication will be again an essential part of the process), I think we need to look at how to consolidate what we have, work better with the wsf office and look at what areas we should "invest" on... //

 [17:43:42] monifono: I agree with jason

consolidate – not create new areas

[17:44:09] Rita  Well, my first suggestion: not create new areas for budget, but to consolidate what we have really working.  Norma, como está: estou sugerindo que nao devemos criar novas áreas para o orçamento de 2011-2012, mas fortalecer o que de fato esteja funcionando

on international thematic seminar

[17:45:01] Rita : The second point - I feel we have to joing efforts to ask to the IC to call an International Thematic Seminar on communication

[17:45:50] Rita : O segundo ponto - acho que deviamos somar forças para que o CI chame um um Seminário Temático Internacional sobre comunicaçao

on Dabase management : a sensitive issue !

[17:47:38] Rita : About the Jason proposal - I fell some questions as sensitive, like the database management. I did'nt like to stop our project again because this issue, Not as part of the project - but yes as political issue to be discussed, like others

[17:49:18] Jason: Can you be more explicit, Rita?  What database management are you talking about?

[17:49:19] Pierre: rita : can you explain what is "our project" ?

[17:49:22] Rita : Sobre a proposta de Jason, eu sinto algumas questoes como sensíveis, como o gerenciamento do banco de dados. Eu nao gostaria de parar nosso projeto de novo por causa dessa questão. Nao como parte do projeto - mas sim, podemos trata-la como questao política a ser discutida, como outras

[17:50:43] Rita  The database is the same you point you sent to the list ., And our project, Pierre, is the project we send to IC

[17:53:10] Rita : Em portugues - sobre o banco de dados, me refiro ao primeiro ponto da mensagem enviada por Jason. Sobre o Projeto Pierre, me refiro ao projeto que enviamos ao CI.

[17:54:06] thaís chita: Concordamos com Rita. Como já decidido em vários CIs, o banco de dados e seu gerenciamento dizem respeito a todo o processo do Fórum e, portanto, a responsabiliade do escritório, bem como o site oficial do processo.

Where is the reference document of comcom project sent to IC ?

[17:54:41] Pierre: Rita: you seem to be meaning the project for budget 2010 - ..may be jason can give a link to it ...

[17:55:01] Rita : Thanks Pierre

[17:55:48] nicolas : http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/comcomfunding-wiki

[17:58:32] Pierre: thanks nicolas ...am looking at the pdf file in that page, july 23rd 09?this seems to be not the last version...

[18:00:35] nicolas : well i'm not sure it is important at this stage, i guess you all know more or less what was the project for last year

on journalist database, participant database  discussion on development of “official website”

[18:00:53] Jason: I only mentioned a general database on the "journalists who have covered the forums in the past" - and in this year's project a participants database (which has been realised but not yet implemented: participants.worldsocialforum.info), which would be actually co-managed by the organisers of the various forums, as well as the wsf office, of course.  I also agree that the management of the "official" website of the forum is of the wsf office -- but not the discussion on it's development, which has been a sensitive issue until now.

[18:04:02] Rita : Yes, I agree that is sensitive, the same way another tools we use, like googlemap. I feel we have to put this issue in the table like questions to be solved, not to be included in our project if there is no consensus. But yes, Jason, I feel that is a beautfull and powerfull debate that the WSF should do in communication policies

[18:06:25] Jason: [ In any case, the websites / internet tools are certainly an area were we have to work better and try to optimize costs.  But there is much more than that.  ]

Listing “what” should be done –

[18:07:31] nicolas : I think that there are two different things : what should be done, and "where" / or who should do the job/overview it/coordinate it

[18:08:22] Jason: That is the point, Nicolas.  So why don't we try to list the "What should be done" part first?

[18:08:30] nicolas : agree

[18:08:33] Rita Freire: Yes, I agree

on impact of registration module on what should be done after Dakar

[18:09:35] Pierre: well there is a point here:  we are talking of post Dakar period 2011 12 right ? ..  and  regarding  website,  things are linked with what will be done on wsf2011websites, so we have to bear this in mind - i have tried to illustrate this in the input

[18:15:22] nicolas : regarding website i think that the focus should be how to connect better wsftv, openfsm, etc. together - and it seems to me to be a good an already ambitious project for 2 years

 18:15:58] Pierre: well nicolas there is a major piece of the puzzle which is not defined yet : the registration -interaction module, and something needs to be defined very soon, and incorporate methodology of wsf , with quality and new developments ( expanded, assemblies .. ) so this might  be a part where many links with other website will be generated , in connexion with the program of the events

[18:17:23] nicolas : i don't understand why it would prevent the comcom to draft its project - when the project is precisely to enhance interoperability

[18:18:01] Mallory : my understanding is the registration process is very well defined. they're in the building/development phase, i've asked igor to come in and comment

the current site: fsm2011.org is where things will be linked and defined generally, that is complete. and can be commented on.

[18:20:03] Pierre: that is this connection between other comcom line of work an dthe wsf2011 registration module that i have tried to illustrate here  http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/comcom-budget-11-12-discussion-1

i wellcome any information and discussion on this subject which we have not yet exchanged upon in comcom at large, and in the website group in particular

Of course i am not saying to discuss now.. but would want to know when , since i understand this is a short term issue and depending what options we take in the short term on wsf2011, our work on points 2 3 4 of jasons message in the next two years may be somehow different

[18:23:55] Rita : Hi friends, just as an effort to be more objective hereI can't to read the weblinks at the same time we discuss, then, please, lets to have this links just as references for consultation not part of our definitions, ok?

On need to work/exchange with Dakar and sao Paulo office on registration data/module

 [18:25:14] Jason: My preoccupation is that unless some work to share the data from registration will be done, we will risk to lose precious information for communication and the forum process as has happened with Belem, where the website and the data disappeared after the forum.  But I agree with Nicolas -  let's try again to work with Igor and the others of the Dakar organising committee and see how that can feed into a broader interoperability project for the following 2 years.   [Of course, it would be nice to be at least informed of what is being done for registration, since it is not a private issue but an important asset for the WSF process].

[18:25:35] Pierre: precisely

on expanded group

[18:25:48] Mallory : another comment related to what is to be done: what should be its own point present on the budget draft is a working group and explicity budget for expanded. there are some projects that will fit under this, if we establish it as an explicit working group - as was agreed in Dakar

[18:27:04] Pierre: the work of expanded in wsf2011 will be very much depending on how expanded is considered in the registration process.. and this will influence the expanded experience after Dakar

i understand that in July it was agreed to consider participants not in Dakar the same was as thos e coming to Dakar regarding registration ; i-e have a common interface for all

[18:28:28] nicolas : expanded will be included in the wsf2011 experience, as decided in Dakar in july

[18:28:31] Mallory : sure. there are lots of other decisions to be made, however

about impact on registration module on lines of work of comcom

[18:28:40] Pierre: yes agree with Mallory -there are decision to be made short term on how people will contact each other in the site, on how they can report their experience, on assembly registration to give some examples

[18:29:38] Mallory : you're right pierre, and we can assume that will be in place. therefore, we have an obligation to those registered participants. that obligation means resources and time devoted to all participants, not just media makers -it's a big responsibility

[18:30:13] Pierre: i agree totally Mallory: a  discussion on this registration module is important  with little effort it can have a very important and lasting  impact on interactions and memory and benefit to us all in our comcom tasks, and generate an index of participants organization activities and links to all other website of comcom

what are our objectives for this module ?


On need to work/exchange with Dakar and sao Paulo office on registration data/module (2)

 [18:34:58] Mallory : a good question, pierre, yet we must save this discussion for another time and for those that are already building it, i think

[18:35:03] Jason: Good - I think this discussion should continue... but some other time (soon).

We have about 1/2 hour left - so what about the other areas of work?

 [18:35:51] nicolas : agree with mallory and jason - any discussion on the current development should be done with current developers

[18:36:45] Pierre: that is fine, and since there seem to be agreement on having this discussion let us fix a time  for this with people involved  the group in charge  -

[18:35:03] Jason: - Facilitating coverage (radio, video, independent media) and press.  How should we approach these, since main costs here are usually more than 50% of the budget?

- Memory ?

- Language(s) ?

- Commission meetings ?

on what does the “coverage” items cover ?

[18:37:02] Mallory : regarding the coverage item, i am still new enough that i don't know a lot abou thte budget. is this where i could ask a question about what it is used for generally? also, if the coverage is "live" it will facilitate participation in expanded

[18:37:54] Pierre: well mallory.. expanded is about providing  participation experience and this requires live intercommunication, but it also requires interactive communication

[18:38:07] nicolas : i wasn't at the Dakar seminar on communication, came a day after, but what where discussions on this ? is this not included in the event budget ?

[18:38:19] Mallory : yes pierre, of course. it is only a part.

[18:38:45] nicolas : please remember we're talking about the PROCESS budget, right?

[18:38:58] Pierre: so live is necessary but not enough, there need to be a participatory situation  - it is the difference between "to follow"  and "to participate"

[18:39:00] Pierre: yes nicolas

[18:39:04] Mallory : yes pierre

[18:39:17] Paco: we are talking about process

[18:39:19] Pierre: but, Nicolas  as you finance controller know, budget have boundaries and criteria

[18:39:21] Paco: i guess

[18:39:45] Paco: but in Dakar we did not talk about expanded after Dakar on expanded we were to make a location in the university, what we don’t know is the internet connection capacity that must be check, one Senegalese comrade as to come back with some info, also he asked about the cost to reinforce the line. to the university supplier

[18:40:30] Jason: I would like to hear Antonio and others about what they think is needed for the "facilitating coverage" part (AFTER DAKAR)

on Expanded after Dakar  -

[18:40:06] Pierre: well expanded after Dakar may be as expanded before Dakar, see point 4B in the today inputs for a proposed vision of expanded in the two years after Dakar

[18:41:58] thaís : até onde sabemos, o tema Dakar expandido foi discutido na comissão de metodologia.

on current status of  Dakar expanded  working group

[18:43:26] Pierre: Oi thais - there could  be soon a Dakar expanded group started by SOC and organizing expanded in wsf2011 process - this group will tackle all the wsf2011 expanded , and this is not in our budget scope,

i guess that  that is part of the july seminar decision

the work will span from now to February and the short term issue is how expanded is integrated in the registration module,  so if we go back to discussing 2011-2012  budget ...

Four areas of Jason

[18:46:08] Pierre: we have the 4 areas proposed by jason

1) Prioritize our targets of communication in the wsf process:that is the more communicational /media area

2) Social media and crowdsourcing

3) Memory and documentation

4) Innovative ways to inter-connect wsf participants around the world, by mail - and by live intercommunication

[18:48:21] Jason: This is just a proposal on my side.  What are the necessities from the working groups and how can they be quantified?

A vision on how to proceed 

 [18:48:39] Rita : Pierre, nós nao estamos começando dessas áreas, mas sim, do que precisamos fazer e quem vai facilitar

[18:55:29] Rita  Then, we have to avaluate the posibilities of collective participation in the gestion of the projects - as a kind of priority for the budget, We have to ask what talent for each project and do not duplicate initiatives (not with the budgets)

 [18:49:04] Rita : Jason fez sugestoes, muito ricas por sinal

proposing listing the existing working groups

 [18:49:30] Pierre: maybe we can list the working groups ...

on wsftv item

[18:52:58] Paco: On wsftv we might to proceed in developing and maintenance and facilitation like in the last 2 years and 9 months .

on websites and expanded initiative groups 

[18:55:55] Pierre: Listing the groups

There are two groups  i know by participating into them ... and they seem  have reasons to last in the next two years ... and have each  a budget 2011 2012 

- the website working group( met i Paris in April )  and  this involves the registration module also 

- the expanded initiative  .. ( it is open to whoever has a first experience of "expansion"  and wants to contribute.)  -

what about the other groups?

on press group

[19:00:11] Jason: For the press part -  I think the work could be quantified in around 10% of the budget to maintain a bare minimum (the virtual media center, which could be eventually integrated into the general wsf portal and the international press facilitation work - contact with mainstream media journalists).

[19:00:13] thaís : precisamos sair em 5 minutos. aqui são 14h.

inputs to come from rita

[19:00:30] Rita  I have to leave. We had a meeting yesterday to discuss ways to contribute with the WSF next two years. We'll send the principal topics for the list

[19:01:02] Pierre: the will be welcomed Rita ..

working on the list until 6th

[18:50:16] nicolas : (sorry, i'll have to leave in 5 minutes - please send me an update after the chat!)

 [19:01:59] Jason: ok - so let's work in the list - trying to list and quantify what is to be done.  We could have another meeting next week, maybe on Monday 6th so there are a few days left to draft a budget and share it.  Does that sound ok?

[19:02:18] Paco: ok

Date for info meeting between comcom at large and working group on Dakar registration module ?

[19:01:59] Pierre: before you leave , can we fix a date for an exchange about the registration module ?  - between comcom and the working group in charge

 [19:02:22] Mallory : pierre, that has to be done with those that aren't here, obviuosly, so no, we can't set a date or time right now, i don't thin

[19:02:40] Pierre: who is not here?

[19:02:58] Mallory : those that are doing the development and that have already started building the system, of course

[19:03:16] Pierre: i understand  thais and igor are around, they have made some inputs in the chat

[19:08:20] Pierre: ah thais... did you see the proposal to have a chat on the registration module ?

[19:08:50] Rita : No Pierre

[19:11:37] Jason: Thais - please propose another date as well for the registration module discussion, together with Igor.  Merci!

[19:20:06] Igor . Palakot: Hi I'm still in a meeting and can't participate right now. I'll be able to give you feedback soon.

About Memory

[19:15:04] normafer: He seguido el debate. Yo no puedo el lunes a esta hora, sino dos horas más tarde. Síi en martes o miércoles. Para el grupo de memoria habíamos avanzado en la fundamentación, pero no sé si hay presupuesto


 [19:06:37] Jason: Well, I have to go too now.  So if there is no alternative proposal, let's leave it to Monday, same time (15hrs UCT), having exchanged on the mailing list in the meantime, ok?

[19:07:40] thaís chita: segunda é feriado no brasil e estarei mudando de casa.

 [19:09:17] thaís : gente, preciso realmente ir.

[19:10:54] Rita : I have to leave too

[19:11:07] Paco: ciao bjzzz

[19:11:34] Rita : Bjssss queridos, e queridas

[19:12:14] Jason: ciao

 [19:16:20] Mallory : bye