• minutes cs 29 oct 09

last modified November 2, 2009 by facilitfsm


Plan. 1

Comcom chat oct 29. 2

Start 2

Next “group paragraph” to be assessed in the montreal com plan draft review.. 2

Antonio and Bettina made a revision – shall we change agenda ?. 3

Does this proposed version of plan changes the working groups ?. 3

Expanded social forum is internal com/participation  or communication coverage ?. 4

Proposing to stay on the formerly agreed agenda and discuss the presentation of the plan later 4

Various presentation of the comcom plan can be done and compared /discussed -  coherence of plan. 5

Bettina explains the reason for 3 objective in her proposal 5

Considering  to stay on former agenda. 6

Impact of Antonio /Bettina proposed presentation / structure on alternative media ?. 6

Have the discussion on the presentation format of the com plan  in a next chat 7

Reviewing point 3 of the montreal plan draft – coexistence of mainstream and non mainstream media in virtual media center 7

Discussing organisation of virtual media center 8

Moving to point 4 -. 9

one participation group with various “participation focused” working initiatives,  with people not necessarily interested in websites,  ( when talking group some mean “participation” group / some are talking about “internet” group ) 10

Statement of salete. 10

infra tech as part of participation group?. 10

Participation group : 5 tasks, and one group able to grow ( some mean participation goup / some are talking about internet group ) 11

websites are in different groups of comcom.. 11

Question about collective identity. 11

How websites are worked upon now.. 11

one internet group for all comcom?  Where ? in Participation group?. 11

Following on point 4. 12

Comment on Statement from Salete ? not now.. 12

Date for closing the plan of actions- entrusting Jason and Salete. 12

Comcom chat oct 29


[20:07:51] Salete  : oi gente?

[20:20:27] Pierre: oi salete e daqui a uma hora creio

[20:25:56] Rita  : Oi Salete no máximo daqui meia hora, não? Seria 17h, agora me disseram 18h

[20:36:44] Pierre: sim

[20:55:26] Salete  : o problema é que parte do Brasil está em horário de verão

[21:02:43] Mallory  : oi my apologies

[21:03:02] Pierre: hello...you are on time

[21:03:10] Mallory  : oh! lovely

[21:05:22] Salete  : qual é a pauta de hoje?

[21:07:29] Pierre: la pauta seria de continuar a examinar la version del plan :estou procurando el link



 [21:08:28] Rita  : Oi Salete Sumiu todo mundo?

 [21:09:18] Mallory  : (quantas pessoas estao aqui)

[21:09:20] Rita  : Vamos dar mais uns minutinhos

 [21:09:42] Rita  : Mallory, querida, speaking portuguese?

[21:10:43] Rita  : Mallory, we are waiting for everybody

[21:10:52] Jason: Hola tod@s!  Tengo una conexión a Internet un poco débil, pero voy a tratar de asistir a la reunion.

[21:10:55]  Antonio: Hi

[21:18:08] Igor  : hello...............

[21:18:13]  Antonio: at a the first point

[21:18:20]  Antonio: hi Igor

[21:18:37] Igor  : hi Antonio and everyone

[21:35:51] Sergio  : Olá a Todos consegui chegar. Desculpe a ausência. Tenho acompanhado os textos.

[21:35:56]  Antonio:

[21:36:04]  Antonio: ciao Sergio

[21:36:11] Rita  : Oi Sergio


Next “group paragraph” to be assessed in the montreal com plan draft review

[21:10:10] Rita  : qual o proximo grupo, Pierre?

[21:09:40] Pierre: a ultima vez revisamos parte 1 e 2 hoje podemos seguir, o prosimo grupo e mainstream press


parte 3

[21:12:54] Rita  : Pierre, nao vamos apresentar o projeto inteiro, vc pode inserir o tópico?

[21:13:24] Pierre: 3. Press and international (mainstream) media facilitation

Continuing on the experience of the GDA and WSF09, the Commission shall pursue a coordinated decentralized work on international press and on a network of journalists who follow the WSF throughout time.


> Increase the visibility of the WSF in public opinion worldwide with a coherent identity by facilitate press pooling coordination among the events, with the local organising committees and IC member's networks

> Facilitate the coverage of the WSF2010 and 2011 by mainstream media (public and commercial), with a virtual media centre containing updated news and background materials in 6/8 languages

> Activate consistent journalists and media relations at the international level, and promote the network of journalists linked to the Forum (possibly including co-organisation of an event

> Seek editorial contribution from well-known activists/journalists

> Synergy with Wsf Sao.Paulo office and all press groups formed for the local events

> Press clippings collection and organisation

> Facilitate re-distribution of content on satellite / Eurovision

Antonio and Bettina made a revision – shall we change agenda ?

[21:13:43] Antonio: Sorry Pierre

[21:13:57] Rita  : Eu vi pela Lista que Paco e Bettina fizeram uma revisao

[21:14:05] Bettina: hallo everybody! i am going to read quickly

[21:14:26] Rita  : Hi Bettina, paco e bettina, podem explicar a proposta de alteraçao desse tópico?

[21:15:31]  Antonio: We have sent to the mailing list a proposal to discuss that resuming , i hope all the points, is a work as said, pino, dan an other comment that can facilitate di long job

[21:16:52] Rita  : Paco, o que muda dos pontos que a gente já discutiu (seminario e meios alternativos?)

[21:17:27]  Antonio: the structure, was made like this because we though to change the point

 [21:18:42] Bettina: it is not exactly an alteration, we tried to organize

[21:18:47] Bettina: as we have said in the mail

[21:18:58] Jason: I have not had the time to read the proposal - does it change our agenda?

[21:19:25]  Antonio: I don’t think so Jason, Antonio: may be you can quickly read it//

[21:19:53] Pierre: thanks  paco and Bettinas for sending  a proposal ,

 i will comment it ......later

in my opinion it is  good to follow the agenda we agreed on and keep the structure as it is now  for the time being, otherwise we will get lost ... and discuss issues of structure


[21:20:35] Bettina: well, the structure as it is now is not really a structure to me, it is more of a college of proposals

[21:20:50] Rita  : Paco and Bettina, could you explain the principal aspects of the changes?

[21:21:07] Bettina: what we have tried to do is to structure, may be you dont like it but others have comment it positively,

i think it may be good discussing now, since it gives it a overall idea instead of going into details better to see the whole before don't you think?

i don’t think it has change so much, though the main change is the proposal of the portal idea, infrastructure

Does this proposed version of plan changes the working groups ?

[21:24:33] Jason: ok - I had a quick look - it looks like another way of putting the activities, with more stress on "mobilizing" (rather than facilitating - do we mean the same thing?)

what is not clear to me is if it implies changes in the working groups and in who takes in charge each specific activity.

[21:24:35] Bettina:  and we don’t get lost  yes i do

as we said the other time, before going into details, it is important to have the structure idea of the plan, the whole vision of it  if we agree on this, we can go through it as for any other plan

 [21:27:47]  Antonio: it is not imply change as you see in the working group jason and who takes in charge the specific activities are always the same wg with new participant i hope

[21:28:43] Bettina: ok pierre, we are not saying that the proposal is mandatory, we have asked to discuss it

[21:28:51] Rita  : Em portugues: Bettina e Paco fizeram sugestao de mudança do projeto, mudando a  proposta de estrutura. Enviaram o plano pela lista e estao propondo que a gente debata esse plano, que já cosiderou as propostas do chat passado

Expanded social forum is internal com/participation  or communication coverage ?

[21:27:31] Pierre: i have reservation on the structure changes ... because i do not feel the logic of some changes  - expanded is place in "communicate" , this is primarily an issue of "participation"

the portal is going to be transversal anyway

 [21:29:54] Bettina: may be you are right that expanded goes to participation, to me expanded is also communication and since it is a comcom issue and not an individual issue i think i can propose something different, from another point of view

[21:31:14] Pierre: of course  Bettina.. ready to discuss..

for people who cannot come to an event the main question is "how can i still participate in the process " ? 

[21:30:15] Rita  : May I do a suggestion? The first point is the internal communication, is it? What is inside of this?

 [21:31:15] Rita  : The portal?

[21:31:36] Pierre: as far as i know the first point of the agenda is mainstream press .....

[21:31:45] Bettina: the portal is mentioned there as it was before, really the portal is in the infrastructure and tech, at the bottom

[21:32:27] Rita  : Well, is the Expanded WSF were? (just for remember)

[21:32:32] Rita  : What group?

[21:33:20] Bettina: the internal communication is all that is needed for people to connect and participate, for instance www.open and www.process too

 [21:34:41] Pierre: yes Bettina :  also  have capacity to participate far away from events ( expanded ) and have good participatory face to face activities ,  and participate on line, all this is participation

[21:35:06] Rita  : Em portugues:A nova versao do plano começa com a proposta de comunicacao interna, onde está o portal, o novo site. Pierre nao concorda porque FSM Expandido também deveria estar lá, na opiniao dele, e foi transferido para outro grupo, de comunicacao e nao de participacao

[21:35:14]  Antonio: the participation is the result of communication, a process of communication Pierre, and here we are planning a communication plan that involve action//

[21:35:50] Rita  : Pierre, what do you think on create an specific group, only for WSF Expanded

 [21:36:22] Pierre: yes paco you may have seen  the table of communication processes i sent this morning : participation in an event is a process of communication ,

 [21:36:34] Bettina: i think it is not important at this point to decide where to place expanded,

 [21:37:10] Rita  : Well, I wait you find a consensus

[21:37:21] Bettina: i think it is important to discuss what is internal communication and how we imagine to concretize in actions

[21:37:35] Pierre: rita:  we agreed after Rabat to make few groups and have integrated action inside them , are you suggesting we fragment now ?

[21:37:44]  Antonio: is a result of communication , because if you communicate in a bad way you don’t have participation, also in relation to the tools that you are using //Nothingh is fragment now, because is the same of before//

Proposing to stay on the formerly agreed agenda and discuss the presentation of the plan later

[21:38:07] Jason: Sorry - this is a bit confusing.  Can someone explain what is the logic and what it affects?  The version of the plan we've worked up to now is functional to the working groups.  This is a different version, but I cannot understand the logic. We are supposed to discuss in detail and approve the various activity proposals, so they can start to be implemented...

I don't think we should start all over again... unless we are speaking of 2011...

[21:39:15] Pierre:  i agree that we need to go on the content of the different chapter of the plan which are meaningful

last time we took time to discuss point 1 and point 2 , now please let us take time to discuss the following points

[21:39:41] Bettina: well i don’t understand the logic of the previous one, the PowerPoint one, the proposal we made strat from 3 points

[21:41:01] Pierre: on one hand you say that this change is not meaningful for the who does what  so let us concentrate on who does what .. and we may understand better issue of structuring    -

[21:41:07] Rita  : Bettina, there are 3 great points, but the working groups are inside them, or not?

[21:42:26] Bettina: whatever, i still think the powerpoint did not have a structure, the job we did was not to destroy anything, in fact who had read it before did comment it positively, but whatever again let's go point by point, and after we discuss the structure, if this make you more happy

it did not mean to be a conflict, just facilitating

[21:43:24] Jason: I am not questioning the fact you are making a proposal - but want to understand where it leads to.  Then I might totally agree.//

[21:43:48] Rita  : I understood Bettina has worked to consider the last chat suggestions, and that it results in another structure

[21:44:15] Bettina: thanks rita

[21:44:41] Rita  : But it's important to explain the principal changes

[21:44:51] Bettina: jason i think you need time to read it carefully, as i said before, the things inside are the same

the change is adding a more detail of the portal and the sequence of the points


Various presentation of the comcom plan can be done and compared /discussed -  coherence of plan

[21:46:15] Pierre: that is better Bettina thanks ... so let us proceed with the review of the plan as it is now


i appreciate the effort of everyone to make a global approach  and we need to discuss

i have also

 worked considering the chat suggestion and proposed the table  of this morning ;)


 [21:46:56] Pierre: so let us have another chat on the structure presentation of the plan... but i understand that this is not the most urgent point

[21:47:09]  Antonio: Pierre, the fact is that we have not the plan

[21:47:17] Bettina: it is urgent too

 [21:47:25] Rita  : Betina explica que a principal mudança foi acrescentar mais detalhes à proposta do site e alterar a sequencia de itens

Paco and Bettina, what do you suggest as the next point?to be discussed?

Bettina explains the reason for 3 objective in her proposal

[21:48:42] Bettina: le tre working areas vengono dagli obbiettivi in neretto scritti nel contest sorry for the language, e pii dettagliati

Jason, it doesn’t look to me not coherent, it is coherent now

[21:49:18] Salete  : ok, Bettina

[21:49:27] Antonio: ciao Salete, boa tarde

[21:49:35] Bettina: ola salete

[21:49:54] Sergio  : Oi Salete

[21:50:23] Bettina: the 3 points in working plan are taken from the bold text written in contest,and detailed

[21:50:52] Rita  : Bettina, do you suggest we work with 3 points?

[21:51:00]  Antonio: Rita, sorry the other time in the chat we said to divide the whole job in two part inside comcom and outside we joint the memory because the memory is transversal to all

[21:52:07] Bettina: i don’t suggest, these are the objectives  written in the context

[21:52:35] Rita  :  My concern is on the proposal for this chat, We cannot discuss all the aspects of the project, What aspect or point we can debate here?

[21:53:35] Bettina: we just took the 3 objectives and detailed them, we could discuss them starting from the first, in fact the first point is missing of things, probably

[21:54:12] Rita  : which one?

Considering  to stay on former agenda

[21:54:35] Pierre: for now, can we review point 3 and 4 of the plan ? last time we had a quiet and productive chat concentrating on point 1 and 2


we are concentrating today on  who does what  going as the existing plan provides


then once we understand who does what, and asses the coherence   we can better see the presentation

we can have a presentation by functions

a presentation by processes

a presentation by objective


[21:54:54] Igor  : just a few thing, i have seen that last time the point 1 and point 2 are discussed . You're still  on them or now it the following points. someone to help me

[21:55:09] Rita  : Estamos tentando decidir qual aspecto do plano pode ser debatido aqui, já que a mudanca proposta  foi em toda estrutura

[21:56:04] Bettina: listen if it is so difficult to see what we have done, lets go the way you want, but at the end of the details of the different points we will have to make it a coherent structure, which at the moment it is not

[21:58:41] Rita  : Well, I suggest we go on, but considering the new approach too

[21:59:06] Jason: Fine - I am concerned that we are avoiding the discussion on the activities which are already proposed and need to be shared, improved, approved.

So just to understand better: are you trying to add a strategy political dimension to what is just a working plan?  Or just to frame it differently?

I think what came out from Montreal is the need of dedicating more time to discuss the larger strategy, the role of communication and to get more people involved in this discussion - organising specific meetings and possibly a comcom seminar so we can go into depth.  If this division is more functional to work for 2010, that's ok - but you need to convince me!

Impact of Antonio /Bettina proposed presentation / structure on alternative media ?

[21:59:16] Rita  : As example, last chat we discussed the alternative media. Did they changed in the structure you propose?

[22:00:53] Bettina: i would say both but mainly the second also for a larger strategy to discuss the role of communication and see how to get more people with good tools, all the above you said, jason

[22:03:57] Rita  : Bom pessoal, acho que nao estou ajudando muito

[22:04:05] Bettina: rita , you also did not have time to read the new proposal?

[22:04:23] Rita  : Bettina, nao peça para eu ler o plano em um chat, Eu ja li

[22:04:35] Bettina: ok, desculpe

[22:04:48] Rita  : Eu peço para vc mostrar a mudanca estrutural, o que mudou, só isso e seguimos ou nao

[22:05:37] Jason Igor - did you have a specific question about the alternative media activities?

[22:07:33] Igor  : not now, im reading all the last comments, just want to see what is done so I'll be ready for the next point Igor  : sorry to be absent all tis time!!!!!

[22:08:52]  Antonio: No problem Igor you are always welcome

[22:09:06] Bettina: hallo igor

[22:09:09] Pierre: igor came in comcom list yesterday  ;)

[22:09:12] Igor  : ok :)

[22:10:45] Pierre: (by the way  , i guess many of us  can participate online in the seminar space opened by igor :


[22:11:50] Rita  : Well, I could say that the last chat on the alternative media are well contemplated by the proposal of Paco and Bettina. Then, for me, we can go on.


Have the discussion on the presentation format of the com plan  in a next chat

[22:04:37] Pierre: Bettina  ..  you have made a proposal of presentation this morning ,

  i have made another one this same morning  ( the table of 10 processes is a way to present our work  ) ;)... and i was  not expecting  to change the agenda of today to discuss my proposal  ...



i think  there is a plurality of way to present our work


.i earnestly think  this discussion  on presentation of the plan is useful but  can come a bit later ....and we will see there are various layers  and views in all this

 [22:05:37] Jason: ok - so if it doesn't change the activities and the way we have structured the working groups - then I propose to discuss this in the next chat, giving time to study it and other people to comment as well - and go to the activities.

 [22:07:32] Rita  : Em portgues: o plano nao muda as atividades, mas a estrutura, o modo como se relacionam. Entao Jason propoe que a gente siga com o debate  as atividades e analise melhor a proposta de Paco e Betina para um outro chat


Reviewing point 3 of the montreal plan draft – coexistence of mainstream and non mainstream media in virtual media center

[22:12:32] Rita  : What the next?

[22:12:40] Pierre:  point 3  mainstream press ....

[22:13:15] Rita  : I have question at this point, you know Just to clarify

[22:14:15] Rita  : 1) What kind of clipping on the mainstream media the commission will procuce for TV, Radio, Etc? Because one task is on the alternative media (not market media) Another the mainstream

[22:16:06] Jason: Rita, are you talking of this activity: Facilitate distribution of  the forum tv coverage by satellite and through Eurovision Worldfeed ?

[22:16:27] Rita  : Em portugues, estamos debatendo agora a relacao com a grande imprensa, estou perguntando que tipo de clipping nos vamos fazer da imprensa comercial

 [22:17:01] Jason: I think Antonio can answer for that

[22:16:50]  Antonio: Rita for tv the scheme is usual like the last years we have one side on producing highlights for eurovision and the other side tv forum and wsftv //

[22:17:08] Rita  : No Jason, is not about way to send news, Is about what we'll follow at the market press

 [22:18:08] Rita  : Because we are joining alternative media and mainstream media at the same space: I disagree, but you can convince me

I am talking about the virtual media center, What is the mainstream media?

[22:21:12] Bettina: ?do you mean:Virtual media center (website/section/repository) – with all materials for journalists and a complete map of all the events, allowing to join a shared communication project, multimedia documents, pictures, blogs and similar tools?

[22:21:18] Rita  : When I make a clipping, What do I insert in it?My doubt is about this

I explain: If I insert an article from reuters, it have to be inside an specfic space for marketing media

[22:23:11]  Antonio: Rita, i think that we have to think about that: the articles for exaple of bbc

like was in belem, was shown later in the report of the forum like others

[22:24:30] Rita  : ok, and about video? CNN?

[22:24:36]  Antonio: , but here we need also Jason that has connection problem

[22:24:51] Jason: Rita - the virtual media centre is mainly a space to collect and order what is produced by the 2010 events (in their preparation and coverage), making it easy for journalists to find themes and materials in various languages, etc; as well as post what the mainstream media say about the wsf (clippings, articles, etc.) and have some press kits like the ones produced in for the global day of action in 2008.

[22:24:54]  Antonio: we dont upload video from CNN on wsftv we don use youtube to embedd the video of main commercial channel

[22:25:35] Rita  : Well, my demand is: we have to make ir separated

 [22:25:46] Bettina: it could be a space like" what others say about wsf" , separate from mainstram and separate from independent media

[22:26:11] Rita  : others are the mainstream, Independent media needs its space as space of the WSF, Mainstream media is "what others say" This is what I think, just my opinion, but I think it is an important question, that is all

[22:28:28] Bettina: press office for mainstream

[22:28:38] Rita  : no, presso office is for everybody realeases, etc the space of alternative media is specific for the alternative media

[22:28:59]  Antonio: In fact, rita, is for everybodies but like in Belem where we got a huge redemption

[22:29:26] Bettina: yes but one specific for mainstreamer

 [22:29:53] Rita  : onde espace for clipping of the others, yes, that is

1) alternative media space

2) mainstream media clipping

3) press service for everybody

 (releases, documents, etc)

Discussing organisation of virtual media center

[22:33:09] Jason: We haven't discussed the exact organisation of the virtual media center, but for me it is important that not exclude journalists from using the content and sharing it if they want (with copyleft).

[22:33:24]  Antonio: right jason

[22:33:33] Rita  : jason, they can use what they want, its for free, But copyrighted news has to be out of the shared media, They have to be par of a professional clipping, including video and radio from comercial tvs

[22:36:19]  Antonio: Rita for the tv, is quite different because the highlights were put on wsftv also distributed by satellite

[22:37:36] Rita  : WSFTV is not copyrighted

[22:37:37]  Antonio: because if have seen the format of highlights they are avaible for everybody

[22:37:42] Mallory  : who's satelite?

[22:37:44]  Antonio: in fact//satellite if you remember in belem i find i Satellite uplink for free working for 3 month with my friend eduardo from eurovision in san paulo and at the end since tvbrasil did not give us the satellite feed i find on other way .we were very luky//

[22:40:24] Rita  : Well, my proposal is simple:  3 areas in the virtual media center

1) what we produce for (releases, newsletter, slogans, agendas, institutional video, spots, etc)

2) alternative media

3) mainstream media info (clipping, analises we do on they, etc)

But separated

[22:42:19] Jason: ok, thanks Rita - we'll discuss it in the press group - since Monica, Roberto and others are not here, I prefer to get their input on this.

For the same reason, can we go to the next activity?

[22:42:55] Rita  : Jason, thanks, but the charter on the alternative media is related with the alternative media groups We desist to produce a media alternative portal because of the general website proposal

[22:43:35]  Antonio: ok

 [22:44:45] Jason: Rita, are you proposing not to put alternative media in the virtual media center but in a separate space on the portal?

[22:45:06] Rita  : In a separated space of the virtual media center, no problem

[22:45:13] Jason: ok

[22:45:20] Rita  : ok

[22:46:01] Jason: What's next?

Moving to point 4 -

[22:48:19] Mallory  : we're just discussing #4, is it? i dont' want to end the alt. media conversation if it is still going

[22:48:57] Rita  : It is finished. We were talking on the virtual media center point

[22:49:15] Mallory  : so pierre, jason, and salete can we move our discussion here, please

[22:50:20] Rita  : Mallory? I did understand. What do you would to move?

[22:50:57] Mallory  : are we ready to discuss the next item on the plan?

[22:52:48] Pierre: well  we can present what is in the current plan

[22:53:08] Mallory  : http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/comcom-plan-part-4

but we must be clear that we are not in agreement even between jason, pierre, salete, and mallory what this is about or how it should be acted out by com com organizers

[22:55:10] Pierre: there is a process of building a group focused on participation complementing the groups on alternate media and mainstream media as described in the link there , participation and internal communication has several facets

- information from IC

- preparation of activities in perspective of events (online)

- participation in activities in events  ( face to face )

- participation in event at distance ( expanded)

- permanent participation on line in the process

all these aspects are direct participation  of organisations and of individual to the process

for each of those facets there are space , ways of facilitating  , tools

[23:00:00] Bettina: i see in point 4 , apart of the introduction about rabat, can we discuss point by point the 5 elements?

1) work closely....etc

2) redefine historical web site

3) improve newsletter....

4)promote expanded

5) work on tools

[23:01:39] Pierre: work on event  and process websites, and support them those site allow participation of organisations and individuals

[23:02:10] Bettina: is this point 5?

[23:02:10]  Antonio:  I dont understand pierre

[23:02:14] Pierre: yes

[23:02:56] Bettina: about this we have made a proposal of having historical web site as a gate

[23:03:04] Pierre: of course no problem this is point 2 and i suppose it l be done in a transversal group since it concerns all aspects of comcom,  i meant point 2 is historical website redesign

[23:03:26] Bettina: and about open.net and process.net, and event site i have many questions and doubts, we have proposed to think about websites as a whole concept

one participation group with various “participation focused” working initiatives,  with people not necessarily interested in websites,  ( when talking group some mean “participation” group / some are talking about “internet” group )

[23:04:55] Mallory  : but what we run into with points 4, 5, and 6 is a lack of participation. if the same people participate in each group, why not make it one group with a large scope, yes, a whole, not a fragmentation here. there are too few people to fragment the internet work at this stage (this is where we were disagreeing on our side chat previously)

[23:05:49] Bettina: and too many empty groups! and working tools

[23:06:33] Pierre: if we want things to grow and be efficient  we need to have focused objectives: at the beginning there is overlap between the subgroups , that is why all of those points are included in the same participation group but when we work on expanded and try to convince organizers to go expanded  in 2010 events  it is a different work than discussing event website  with those organizers

[23:07:48] Mallory  : i want things to grow. efficiency is a secondary consideration

: yes, different work. why not the same people? it is okay to have multiple, well-defined objectives for the same group of course

 [23:08:30] Pierre: there are some differences in each of the working group in term of people involved for example expanded : there is Martina who is not interested in event sites

[23:09:12] Mallory  : a large diverse organizing body would be very productive

[23:09:23] Pierre:  that is what participation group can be

Dan baron is interested in expanded and in participatory activities, not in internet per se

[23:09:49]  Antonio: Mallory i think that the efficiency is the first point , i mean tools or web site user friendly is may be the reason why the participation is very low.//

[23:10:14] Mallory  : what is efficiency and objectives without organizers? i don't understand how the work will get done.

[23:11:02] Pierre: by people who take on some aspect of this agenda : the 5 points that Bettina stated, at the same time they exchange into the participation group

Statement of salete

[23:11:32] Rita  : Hi friends, Salete has called me. She had to go out the chat because the place where she was working is closing. But she asked me to say you that this is an important point for her, for the office, and for the Liaison Group too

infra tech as part of participation group?

[23:11:40] Jason: Can we just try to understand which activities have both participation and web tools - in which case it makes sense that the infra/tech is part of the same group (groups are a functional division, we are not creating new uncommunicating commissions!!)

Participation group : 5 tasks, and one group able to grow ( some mean participation goup / some are talking about internet group )

 [23:11:50] Mallory  : but this is my proposal, to combine some of these groups until the people come to do the individual project work. for me, i can only participate in one wsf chat per week. but this is just me. maybe there are many others that can work on 3 or 4 groups beyond this one

 [23:12:33] Pierre: that is fine mallory, we are pragmatic people, it is a frame , not a corporate organogram

[23:12:43] Mallory  : fantastic.

 [23:13:01] Pierre: ;)

[23:13:42] Mallory  : you jest that i am corporate when you are talking of efficiency. i think a working group is not just a body that carries out the demands of its bosses

[23:14:00] Pierre: i agree on this too...

websites are in different groups of comcom

[23:14:00] Pierre: just we need time to exchange on the accumulated experience and how we focus on some aspect and embark the tools for each aspects

-alternate media have their own tool for making shared communication coverage

- participation group has the tools for developing participation

- memory group has the tool for stimulating memory

and the general portal discussion and design will make all this converge in a pragmatic scheme

[23:16:13] Mallory  : so my proposal to combine them is unsuccessful, now how to discuss each point. starting with 4

[23:16:36] Bettina: i think that some points coming out now are about governance, which is probably the discussion subject after finishing the common plan, or not?

Question about collective identity

[23:17:21] Bettina: let us re start point 1 of point 4

i would like to understand what do you mean with collective identity, and common elements, it is an interesting point

[23:18:57] Pierre: i guess jason can answer here,  i understand it is about logo , "story" etc... and he does ;)

[23:20:04] Bettina: i mean:> Work closely with the 2010 group that is defining the common elements to be circulated widely and consistently. The purpose is to give a collective identity to 2010 and mobilize potential participants (both organisations and individuals)

a group will work on common elements ( point 7?) that gives a collective identity?

How websites are worked upon now 

 [23:21:38] Jason: [Sorry, before we get into this -- and before my battery dies... -- can we try to solve the tech / participation dilemma?  Maybe Mallory can re-state her proposal?

[23:21:58] Mallory  : no, Jason, the proposal was given "nay" very strongly

 [23:24:39] Pierre: i explained the way we are organized in comcom  up to now ....having groups who take care of the tools for their share of facilitating work, and , at the same time  develop a global view of guidelines  and portal design and convergence between tools

Each group pledges to maintain the tool it is using and promoting , to support the users  to develop their use among wsf participants ..for instance wsftv.net is promoted through an on line community

[23:27:57] Bettina: when we talk about tools, what do we mean

one internet group for all comcom?  Where ? in Participation group?

 [23:28:07] Mallory  : and my main argument is that "Internet" is one tool and should be consolidated

- wsftv.net focuses on video and video distribution

- ciranda is focused on radio

- alternative media, well....we get the point

[23:31:17] Jason: Does this mean that people working on making the tools should necessarily be in a separate group?  Most of the internet tools to be developed are in the PIC group - for me it makes sense that it should be a larger group, so there they can work together.

[23:31:46] Salete  : Oi pessoal, voltei mas e estou tentando acompanhar

[23:32:36] Mallory  : oi salete, i have to leave now, ciao! talk to you next week

[23:34:05]  Antonio: Ciao Mallory

[23:34:41] Jason: Bye Mallory - I'm sure we'll find a solution!

[23:34:44] Rita  : Bye Mallory, I didn't undertand yet, because of that I am not contributing for this point, sorry

 [23:35:04] Bettina: ciao mallory

[23:36:00] Rita  : Mallory, are you still here? Ok Bom pessoal, como seguimos com nossa tarefa?

Following on point 4

[23:39:41] Bettina: can we follow the points 1 to 5 of point 4?

[23:40:10] Rita  : Podemos falar em portgues e italiano?

[23:40:38] Bettina: proviamo

[23:41:23] Rita  : A pergunta é: esses pontos podem ser discutidos só com as pessoas que estao aqui?

Comment on Statement from Salete ? not now

[23:41:30] Jason: If you agree, I think that it would be better to discuss what Salete has to say about the comcom and the wsf office. 

We need more time for that discussion and it would be better if the PIC group had a meeting before that.

[23:41:32] Rita  : Se podemos encaminhar, otimo

[23:42:32] Bettina: es muy tardi para nos italian

[23:42:47] Pierre: vamos en espanol entonces

[23:43:03] Rita  : Vc sugere ouvir Salete sobre o que, jason? Aqui nao é tao tarde, mas também estou um pouco cansada

[23:45:12] Pierre: estamos en chat 2h45mn

Date for closing the plan of actions- entrusting Jason and Salete

[23:45:21] Rita  : Queria voltar a combinar com vcs um deadline para fecharmos o plano de açao, Porque uma coisa sao nossas propostas de fundo pra a comissao, outra coisa sao as propostas para encaminhar já

[23:46:00] Salete  : jason, quando vocês pretendem entregar o plano para NOVIB?

[23:47:31] Jason: 

mais rapidamente possível - mas temos de concordar com as atividades e despesas gerais

Eu vejo Imad de novib aqui em Gana amanhã (que chega para a Assembleia da Social Watch), assim que me gostaria lhe diria quando somos capazes de lhe dar o orçamento, em larga

[23:49:47] Salete  : e o que está mais difícil de concordar?

[23:53:32] Jason: a distribuição de fundos para cada atividade, uma vez acordada cada atividade...!

[23:54:56] Salete  : gente, Imad disse que o recurso está disponível. Então, precisamos fechar a proposta logo

[23:55:11] Antonio: okey salete

[23:55:12] Rita  : Jason e Salete, vcs sao os dois da comissao de recursos, nao sao? acho que vcs poderiam nos ajudar nisso

[23:55:21] Salete  : sim

[23:55:24]  Antonio: io credo che il punto piu complesso sia capire come marcha los site el sito principal e los otros//

[23:56:14] Rita  : porque nossa tendencia é discutir interminavelmente o conceito, a dinamica, etc pq todos fazemos com certa paixao politica mas concordo que nao podemos atrasar esses encaminhamentos

[23:57:12] Salete  : jason, podemos tentar trabalhar até dia 02/11 por email ou skype e tentar uma proposta para o grupo?

 [23:57:27]  Antonio: tentamo sicuramente

[23:57:44] Jason: sim.

 [23:58:58] Salete  : paco e Bettina, é importante você finalizarem a proposta do plano que estão fazendo e eu e jason vamos tentando colocar em números (recursos)

[23:59:43]  Antonio: okey

[23:59:55] Salete  : paco, eu tenho dificuldade de pensar nos sites todos. Posso me esforçar com o grupo PIC, Podemos parar?

[00:00:37]  Antonio: si,  tengo uma proposta por ricurso che ve invio esto finalizzando

 [00:00:53] Rita  : Por favor, podemos sim

[00:00:57] Bettina: si

[00:01:06] Rita  : Agradeço os dois por tentarem nos interpretar em numeros rssss, Depois a gente briga com vcs, mas será outra história

[00:01:41] Rita  : beijos, boa noite

[00:01:56] Jason: Salete - eu tenho alguns comentários sobre sua mensagem sobre o ComCom e do escritório - te envio resposta por e-mail

[00:02:26] Bettina: buonanotte rita, salte, jason pierre antonio

[00:02:43] Jason: boa noite!

[00:03:14] Salete  : buena note e bye

[00:03:15] Pierre: ciao Bettina ... paco rita  salete

[00:03:19]  Antonio: ok gente saluti a tutti

[00:03:22] Pierre: igor!