• minutes cs 31st march

last modified April 6, 2010 by pierre

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Log of our chat  march 31st

Comcom seminar – later 13


[18:07:48] Rita Freire: Olá gente resistente, entendi que tínhamos um chat hoje, vamos definir algum quorum m

[18:07:52] Rita Freire: ímínimo?

[18:10:07] paco: ola

[18:10:26] Jason: Hola Rita, Antonio!

[18:10:49] Jason: Quorum minimo y ... tiempo maximo...!

[18:11:05] Rita Freire: Oi Paco e Jason, já somos 3, :D

[18:11:05] paco: esatto tempo massimo una ora

[18:11:19] Mallory Knodel: ola

[18:11:22] Rita Freire: mas ainda poucos;(

[18:11:29] Rita Freire: Oi Mallory

[18:11:35] Mallory Knodel: Oi Rita!

[18:12:02] paco: Hi Mallory and ciao Jason e Rita

[18:12:39] Jason: Anyone else?

[18:13:45] Rita Freire: Vamos aguardar mais um pouco, nossos chats tem tipo muito pouca participação, depois os encaminhamentos ficam comprometidos

[18:14:40] Jason: Mensaje de Salete:

Oi gente,

A Rita me avisou do chat, hoje, mas eu estou em Brasília na Plenária de votação da Conferência Nacional de Educação, sem parada para almoço e não posso ficar na internet pois estamos em votação.

Sobre o México - ou vamos manter o que foi encaminhado no último CI ou é melhor ninguém participar do encontro do México.

Também acho que não dá para fazer um seminário de Comunicação lá, a menos que tenhamos recursos para pagar as passagens das pessoas.

[18:15:25] paco: desculpe can you write in english

[18:16:01] Mallory Knodel: http://translate.google.com

[18:18:07] Rita Freire: Norma, chegou?

Comcom seminar – later

[18:18:14] paco: Dears for me the communication commission need a seminary  , 2 days at least like we made in florence

[18:19:30] paco: where all the main point will be discuss, metodology , role of the commission, political analisis and  plan of work //

[18:21:53] Jason: Agree - but let's not call it seminary, or it will be confused with the proposed one by the LG in Mexico (which we need to take a final decision on -- but we are not enough here...)

The question is if we can do this 2-day Comcom meeting in Mexico or if it is better to do it later, given that we have up to 10.000 euro for all (travel and other organising expenses). //

[18:23:27] Pierre: hello ;)

[18:23:40] Mallory Knodel: what are some other later dates that you propose?

[18:23:51] Mallory Knodel: hi pierre

[18:25:12] Pierre: hi malory ... joining in ...

[18:26:37] paco: i think that we have to take a week on consultation and the next week we will take a decision. For me is very difficult come to Mexico and i honestly wish to be present at  this meeting because after all the job that w made we need to have a physical meeting and not internet.

[18:27:47] Pierre:  is there an updated list of who has confirmed attendance in mexico, in the ic i mean , where there are people that came once or twice in Comcom meetings ..just have this view in our decisiion making

What to do in mexico

[18:29:40] Jason: I don't have a proposal. But I would like to have a resolution on Mexico.  If we don't decide now, it means we are not going to have it - since airfaires will be to expensive and we might end up supporting only a few people.  Also, I think we are not "ready".  There needs to be more interest and participation even at a distance.

[18:30:51] Rita Freire: Hi Pierre,

[18:31:05] paco: hi Pierre

[18:31:30] Pierre: HI Rita ....well we have missed occasion to have a good Comcom  meeting in montreal before ic ... and we have paid a price for it  - i wonder if we are not at risk of the same in mexico .. depending what is being discussed with LG

[18:31:36] giu.caruso: hello everyone

Dialogue with IC : a necessity

[18:31:49] Rita Freire:  the question is: Even is we can work by ourselves, the policy on communication of the IC is an issue for the IC. How do you mean this dialogue should be made?

[18:32:06] Rita Freire: Hi Giuseppe

[18:32:19] paco: Ciao Giuseppe

[18:32:36] Pierre: to be clear  - is there going to be "communication" on the agenda of IC this time? and if so is it going to be without preparation of Comcom ?or is all postponed to october ?

[18:34:05] Jason: [Hi Giuseppe]

Prepare a common document : a necessity –  and postpone com strategy seminar

Pierre, this is what we are discussing now.  I think we should prepare a common document of the Comcom for the IC in Mexico, with as much online and "voice" exchange as possible, and delegate the people of the Comcom who will be there to stick to the common position, bringing it to the plenary.  And propose to have the communication strategy seminar in the next IC.  In the meantime, we should organise our Comcom meeting... somewhere.

[18:35:27] paco: I agree with Jason

Propose paired meetings between commissions

[18:37:09] Jason: Instead, what we could propose to the LG as an agenda for the IC (in line with the request of the strategy commission), is to have paired meetings with each commission:

Comcom&strategy, Comcom&expansion, Comcom&methodology, etc, as well as methodology&expansion, etc. -- maybe 2 hours sessions...

[18:37:29] paco: ok

[18:38:23] Pierre: these paired meeting are badly needed .. it will strengthens uderstanding between comissions indeed there has not been those meeting since several ics..

[18:38:30] Jason: this would help confront ideas with the other members of the IC, and maybe clear also some points of conflict or of misunderstanding.  what do you think? //

[18:38:44] giuseppe caruso: question, one thing just to understand i thought we had been asked by LG to have some sort of meeting in Mexico: do we need/want to have that

[18:41:22] Rita Freire: is it a question, Giuseppe?

[18:41:27] giuseppe caruso: it is

[18:41:38] Jason: Giuseppe, it is what we are discussing (can you read the exchange before you arrived?).  And it looks like there are not enough people / active members of the Comcom to organise that proposed seminar by the LG - nor enough time/energy to prepare it.  So we are looking for other possibilities.

Need for a meeting with LG ?

[18:42:02] giuseppe caruso: wait i did read the messages before i arrived but there still is a reason for me of confusion, one thing is a workshop "between" Comcom members one other thing is a meeting "with" the LG my general feeling is that we should have a meeting "with" LG

[18:42:45] Pierre: ( factual question : have the exchanges between the "selected groups" of 5  LG Comcom actually begun ? )

[18:43:30] Rita Freire: Pierre, we have exchanged the first messages in this LG/ComCom dialogue and the message Is: we are having chats in the com com and we'll talk after this We want talk with them in line with the communication commission positions

[18:45:12] Pierre: i understnad  there was a meeting with lg in porto aleger and in dakar .... and that is how this 5-5 scheme has emerged .. preparing the ic seminar on com in ic mexico as main target

[18:46:24] Rita Freire: Please, Pierre, nobody is talking with LG in a paralel task We need to decide here, in order to informe there

[18:47:01] Pierre: ok rita .. then i think we should move to another big point  : having a common document expressing the scope and strategy of Comcom ...

Situation  described  by jason

[18:47:25] Jason: ok - there's a bit of confusion here... ;)

1. the exchange between the "groups of 5" of LG and Comcom have not taken place. 

2. at the face-to-face meeting in Porto Alegre, the LG proposed to have a seminar on communication in the IC

3. we have not (yet) accepted or rejected that proposal

4. we badly need a Comcom face-to-face internal meeting, it should be before such a seminar or we risk not being able to prepare it well

[18:48:40] giuseppe caruso: so the meeting with LG will have to take place in Mexico or not?

[18:49:05] Rita Freire: This is the proposal from LG

[18:49:19] giuseppe caruso: is there any reason why we should say no?

Document needed for mexico

[18:49:51] Pierre: following on rita :  if we are able to make a good common document on line in the next weeks ...  looking forward based on our experience and self assessment  ( especially since rabat and montreal )  we will be in a better situation collectively  , to  maintain a Comcom position in mexico whatever happens

[18:50:07] Rita Freire: For me, the only question is: will we be there?

Situation of LG in mexico

[18:50:15] Jason: The LG will be renewed in Mexico, with a new mandate as well.  Who are we going to talk to?  The old LG, the new one?  I think we still have to address some of the questions raised and respond to the whole IC.

[18:52:33] Rita Freire: Jason, for me it is not a problem, once the LG is a kind of instance of the IC. The invitation made by them means: we have to talk with the IC on the communication policies, because of the last time, when we have asked for more time for internal debates

Main message of document could be about readiness of Comcom to facilitate spaces for stimulating communication processes

[18:53:15] Pierre: so  ...  the  main issue is having a document expressing Comcom vision for the coming  period based on self assessment .. I would submit the main message would be that we will be focusing on facilitating spaces for stimulating communicational processes in WSF this would lead us to talk with other commisison  depending the communicational process we are considering: strategy methodology expansion

Discussion with LG is not a main issue –  Comcom operation is

[18:54:37] Jason: Since Porto Alegre, there has hardly been any contact from the LG and always through the office of S.Paulo.  So I'm not really preoccupied about that, but of how the commission is (not) functioning and communicating inside, and how we're not able to make clear what we are doing and why, what we are not and why, what we want to do TOGETHER with the other IC members and commissions and all the organising committees of the forums... etc.

[18:55:11] giuseppe caruso: taht is very important jas

need to answer critiques on tools

[18:55:18] paco: Pierre i think that we have also to answer to the critics made in Rabat and Montreal and in the LG report about the tools, and Paris will be a good occasion to discuss it

[18:55:19] Pierre: how do we draft and discuss this document .. this would be a concrete step to get together again a

[18:55:20] giuseppe caruso: so i thought we were to meet before the ic to discuss that (the day before the IC)

  A document will help talk in instances  in mexico and towards october

[18:55:53] Rita Freire: I agree with the sense of Pierre: if we have a common position, or a common vision on diferents positions and process, we are prepared to talk in all the instances

[18:56:16] Pierre: yes giuseppe that was the reason for asking about  a pre-IC Comcom meeting on 4th of may

[18:56:28] giuseppe caruso: ok one second so we need a meeting among us before meeting the LG we will meet the LG during the IC mexico

[18:57:06] Mallory Knodel: if not in mexico, what is the next opportunity? we have to know our options to make a decision

[18:57:11] giuseppe caruso: we will discuss a common strategy before the ic meeting  it might be dakar in october no?

[18:57:29] Pierre: yes rita .. ;)  as i feel ..  this mean taking things where we left them in rabat .....

[18:57:37] giuseppe caruso: when everyone will have only one thing really in mind (and rightly so)

[19:00:07] Rita Freire: We can not have on thing in mind, but we could identify what are the differences, point them if necessary, but we have no this yet

October not  good date for com discussion in IC

o[19:01:04] giuseppe caruso: (sorry rita what i was trying to say is that in october everyone will have only one thing in mind meaning the january forum and might not wish to spend time on other issues...)

Need for a forward looking document with common position

[19:01:04] Jason: We need to discuss a common position (written) for the IC in the next 15 days.  Have as many Comcom members signon, and then, if possible, have a meeting pre-IC in Mexico to start re-discussing our organisation, process and a proposal for the next IC (towards Dakar).

[19:01:15] Pierre: so if drafting a forward looking document is a positive way to go.. could we define how we are going to work on this document?

[19:01:54] Rita Freire: I think is not a technical document, but a political one, or some political ones

[19:02:07] Pierre: rather than position , i would advocate fo "vision "  showing that we are able to formulate a frame open to cooperation with other commissions and with tasks for us that we have not done enough so far

[19:03:38] Pierre: i would submit an approach where we consider communication in all its dimensions and processes and for each of them  we formulate objectives - policies  - actors  - spaces that we would facilitate

[19:04:21] Rita Freire: As I could understand, we have tree different dimensions of the communication process.

[19:04:46] Pierre: this would be the propositive part of the document , following aspects of self assessments and contextualization

[19:04:58] Jason: not a vision, pierre.  we have had too many visions... we need to be more concrete... more of an assessment of where we are, and what are the challenges, realistically.  And the way we agree on approaching them (framework)

[19:06:00] Pierre: integrating the visions into one ..is  one of our challenges ..;-)precisely

[19:06:22] paco: you can make your annex with your vision i agree with jason

Comcom Approaching organizations after rabat

[19:07:37] Pierre: and also being more concrete on how we can approach other organizations .. as we where planning to do after rabat .. that is fairlu concrete   because we keep complaining the ic organization do not contribute enough .. but may be we have not been concrete enough in approaching them

[19:09:19] Jason: I think there was too complex a scheme Pierre there, with the troikas and all.  We can still send a common message to all those who showed interest before the IC - without any complex procedure.

[19:09:28] Jason: Giuseppe, Mallory, are you still with us?  What do you think?

[19:09:42] giuseppe caruso: me here

[19:09:44] paco: I agree Pierre: but here are many different situation to analize

3 dimensions  -institutional office – shared communication –  and Comcom

[19:10:07] Rita Freire: Me and Salete are talked one the possibility to join tree dimensions: the institutional one (based on the history of the office activities), the alternative one (based one the history of shared initiatives) and the Comcom itself, as an collective effort to make this diferents process in dialogue including the great problem: how to approach the conventional media

[19:10:48] Mallory Knodel: I like this 3-way explanation, Rita

About Rabat enquiry  - towards 60 organisations  on 10 themes related to cmcom

[19:11:08] Pierre: i am not discussing the procedure .... this can be many different one.. i am suggsting that we have not been effective in approaching the organization as Comcom to define with them on which communicational process they wanted to contribute , in which way and in wich "space"

let me find the rabat inqiury where we had more than 3 dimensions...


[19:11:55] paco: the problem of space is related of open if the people dont find friendly the tools they dont come this the story

[19:11:59] Rita Freire: Thank Mallory, someone understanding my english!!!

[19:12:46] giuseppe caruso: here are my two cents whatever the criticisms we can produce a response if we have to respond to some specific questions from the LG we should excercise ourselves on what the LG is asking of u: to acknowledge that we vaalue their critical suggestions

[19:14:14] Mallory Knodel: but it isn't only that, giuseppe, because we must approach this situation from the understanding that there is misfunction and misunderstanding on many levels. that comm actually has its own perspective that it should be confident to share with the LG. they must value us. how could it be possible that the LG has all of the answers and critical perspectives?

[19:14:33] Mallory Knodel: but i agree with you that we can respond directly to the LG and its criticisms. that would be very important

mixing answer to criticisms and propositive part in same document and adding our own  self criticism

[19:15:02] Pierre: mallory  giuseppe i would submit that the answer to criticisms would be only one part of the document

[19:15:29] Mallory Knodel: ah, pierre, you understood my response exactly

[19:15:49] Pierre: and the rest of it would be forward looking ... including making selfcrictiisme that LG has not made, but that we are making to us! : baiscally  our inefficiencyu in approaching orgnaisations and formulating with them tasks that they would be ready to take

[19:17:08] Jason: You all read the responses that we sent -- as a collective exercise - to the LG in December?What is missing?  What should be discussed further among us?  Can we make a list of the most relevant aspects we did not respond to?

Also bear in mind that the LG has no authority, and that we must answer to the whole IC.

[19:17:56] Pierre: http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/troikas-de-contacto/#_Toc231564820 in rabat organisation experessed interest in 10 themes .. which can be realted to different communicational processes

[19:18:47] Rita Freire: jason, do you refers to ours differents responses, including mine with Pia and Salete? Do you have thar document yet?

[19:18:55] giuseppe caruso: ok so that, jason, mallory, seems to be clear the LG is only a partial problem, even marginal, but we wish to come up with a strong and confident position if i understand correctly to address the whole of the IC

  Mapping three  dimensions  vs ten processes 

[19:20:15] Mallory Knodel: rita, pierre has brought up a document with 10 approaches to media. i think your proposal for 3 is more sensible. can you tell us more about how the 10 is related to your 3?

[19:20:49] paco: Dear Pierre sorry but i dont see, at least on my side any inefficiency in the approach, the fact is that the tool deputated to be a working space is refused , what we have to do? Change the situation. this is one main point of discussion because if a communication commission propose something that is difficult to use we need to rethink it. Without any drama.

[19:20:56] Rita Freire: Mallory, I dont know the 10 themes

[19:21:30] Mallory Knodel: it's the link he just sent. and also what we talked about in montreal, i believe

Listing the 10 processes  - about part 2 of plan  below

[19:22:31] Pierre: here are the process list it is a list of 10 situations where people commmunicate in different contexte and with diferent purposes


[19:22:48] paco: Sorry but i have to go , i hope that we can have a dinner togheter in Paris , Mallory Pierre, Jason Me and Igor.

[19:23:05] Mallory Knodel: paco, you're here! oh, i'm delighted. can't wait to see you

[19:23:18] Rita Freire:Mallory, I think it is about the approach proposed by Pierre, in how to contact organizations. I agree with Paco, it was not the way we follow to approach

[19:23:32] Pierre: of course Paco  we will meet and eat and talk

Political position vs approaches  what is the difference ? 
[19:24:47] Rita Freire: Please, I'd like to talk on the political positions and subsides we need, not about aproaches - it is important Pierre, but not for now

[19:25:21] Pierre: well irta .. please explain the difference .. of what you call politiccal ...

[19:25:46] paco: ciaoo se you sorry but i have to go

[19:25:57] Mallory Knodel: if i may summarize: so there seem to be three parts to the document.

[19:26:00] giuseppe caruso: ciao paco

[19:26:03] Rita Freire: I think we have tree ALIVE process in communication policies

[19:26:38] Pierre: the objectives and policies  in each of  the communication processes we indentified  are the political statements  , aren’t they ?-

[19:26:50] Rita Freire: People gestioning them, thinking them in different (and complementary) ways But we need to give voice to this three process

[19:28:18] Pierre: (rita ok  i guess we need to "map"  the 3 dimension and the 10 communicational processes..)

proposing a plan – need to develop part 1

[19:26:08] Mallory Knodel: 1. political positions

2. practical approaches

3. response to LG criticisms

[19:26:46] Mallory Knodel: 2 & 3 are written. which means we can spend the time working on the importance piece, which rita is outlining for us now

Listing criticisms -  part3 of plan

19:26:47] Jason: I just put the Comcom response to LG in openfsm (it was circulated in our mailing list): http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/report-of-montreal-ic-meeting-oct.09/WSFIC_Comcom_LG_response.rtf

[19:27:19] Mallory Knodel: this large, 3-part document will go to IC, a synthesis of our internal and LG-related process

[19:29:19] Mallory Knodel: sorry, i am also going now

[19:29:39] Rita Freire: Agree with the general proposal expressed by Mallory,

Making the summary

[19:29:27] Jason: I have to go now.  Who is going to make a summary of this meeting?

[19:29:51] Pierre: well i guess i can ... ;)

[19:30:12] giuseppe caruso: ok then chic@s i shall go to

[19:30:28] giuseppe caruso: nice seeing you again after long and i look forward to seeing you all in person in mexico: we'll keep working together till then ciao!

[19:30:28] Rita Freire: I have to go too

[19:30:38] Jason: Pierre ... a summary - different from a chat with titles...

[19:30:53] Rita Freire: hapy because we really like wednesday to meeting

[19:31:02] Pierre: OK jaosn we need a starting draft .. is there someithgn available ... we can discuss this in paris ... we need toproduce a draft very soon.. and criculate it in Comcom to make a good conensus document in thenext weeks

[19:32:20] Rita Freire: (F)(pi)(coffee)