• dibco1 2020 discusionfsm comment7 input20 1en

last modified April 5, 2020 by facilitfsm


INDEX OF input20 self-organized activity: "present and future fsm" mexico February 5

This index is a form of comment, since making the index is not neutral,

See the transcript of the table here
http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2020-discusionfsm-input20-en (automaticc translation)

index - inputs - summary - full text

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INDEX: the numbers @ 1 to @ 80 report even inputs in the activity (exemple search @1 or @45 in the "page search" of your browser)

 

A

APPROPRIATION Proposition 1 - you Mexicans consider yourselves from now on as the owners of the World Social Forum in Mexico. @ 57 owner of a common good What to take care of @ 58

APPROPRIATION Proposal 2 I would have the audacity to suggest to the facilitating Committee of Mexico what it considers that it does not need authorization from anyone for that, that this World Social Forum in Mexico has constitutional power, is constituent, that is, it can propose changes in the Charter of Principles , the International Council can propose changes, it can propose the creation of other councils, assemblies of which I speak Leo, that is, it can propose something else @ 67

APPROPRIATION I have the audacity to have the Social Forum in my hands to save it @ 68

ASSEMBLY The way to move forward in the process of organizing the forum itself ... is the form of assembly .... which could well be used to take, let's say, the reins of the process of organizing the World Social Forum @ 10

SELF ORGANIZATION in Mexico we don't know how to do a world forum and the World Social Forum is self-organized, and while learning to self-organize there are a lot of disagreements. @ 42,

C

CHARTER  in deck 2018 and November 2018 we have asked, even in writing, what is reviewed from the facilitating group of Mexico, the Letter of Principles @ 33

CHARTER debate of almost 20 years on the letter @ 1

CHARTER the World Social Forum must follow a principle: who finances does not put conditions on who is going to come, and what we are going to discuss, @ 31 -

CHARTER there are those who consider that it is necessary to adjust to what the letter says, without considering that every rule and every principle has to be interpreted so there are some interpretations that have a little to the right and others to the left @ 34

CHARTER The letter was written after the first World Social Forum in Porto Alegre. This letter should be very, very alive, very provisional, @ 54

CHARTER I mentioned twice last week at the International Council; that part of the people who say they are from the left said that there was no coup in boliviar, which for me is a violation of a letter of principle, but no one answered; nobody reacted; They don't want to know. @ 46

CHARTER I think that this Letter of Principles is no longer useful, but it is not so important @ 45

CHARTER would be one of my questions: what do we do to review, if there is a need or not to review, this Letter of Principles ?. @ 37

CARTA DE MEXICO we have spoken here of a possible letter from Mexico that gives rise to, and that really impels a new stage of the forum. @ 38

FACILITATOR COLLECTIVE The way to move forward in the process of organizing the forum itself ... is the form of assembly ... which could well be used to take, let's say, the reins of the process of organizing the World Social Forum @ 10

FACILITATOR GROUP there are some organizations that are going to try to control the World Social Forum, @ 30

FACILITATOR GROUP We must go with the commitment that we all have, with majority solutions @ 61

FACILITATOR GROUP to continue advancing in the facilitator group, although there is a difference as stated here, we are going to find a way to move forward in the organization .. @ 80

COLECTIVO FACILITAOR MEXICO there is a facilitating committee in Mexico, I greatly admire the work that was done in this committee, it was not easy, because there was never a decision by the International Council, and all the work they did was a little hoping that the Council would agree. @ 48B

INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL the International Council does not have ethical conditions to have a lot of power at the moment, because it has no representativeness @ 63

INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL I very much agree with what the representatives of the International Council have said in some way here, although I know the other part of the International Council @ 42C

INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL But there are people who want to perpetuate themselves, and want to control what there is,… so it is an egotrip in some way, @ 66

INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL that there is a process of building the representativeness of an International Council - that every local committee that organizes a World Social Forum immediately has 20-30% of the seats on the International Council, @ 65

INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL we want the consensus of everything, even in the council of the international Council there is an idea: "in the forum is consensus" @ 62

INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL and I am very happy to see that, here, the four of us are on the same side, right? - It is that the forum has to be political!   Some think that the forum should not and cannot be political @ 6

CONSENSUS - avoid that these divergences are the divergences that will allow infiltration to enter organizations. Always seek some consensus after discussion where possible @ 73

CONSENSUS egoism (?) Of organizations should be removed carefully, if with much conversation, but should not follow the consensus norm @ 59

CONSENSUS To clarify everything and not take advantage of the principle of consensus, and this would be very bad to block decisions @ 51

CONSENSUS This idea of ​​total consensus in the organization led to the fact that we are not really political @ 17

CONSENSUS We must go with the commitment that we all have, with majority solutions @ 61

CONSENSUS we want the consensus of everything, even in the council of the international Council there is an idea: "in the forum is consensus" @ 62

CONSENSUS I am very in favor of consensus. But you know how a consensus is built: it is hours, days, sharing lives ... Now, going to a meeting where we are two three hours, and then saying "there is consensus" is false @ 60

CONTENT THEMES The Social Forum Mexico must bring back civilization processes, @ 29

CONTENT THEMES the World Social Forum must follow a principle: who finances does not put conditions on who is going to come, and what we are going to discuss, @ 31 -

CONTENT THEMES The fsm has to be more of movements than ngos to be able to work on taboo topics @ 23

CONTENT THEMES Two Thematic Axes @ 3

CONTENT ISSUES You cannot really discuss Israel @ 24

CONTEXT @ 5 @ 8B

CONTEXT contradictions in mexico @ 29

CONTEXT Strong problems solve weak @ 2

D

DAVOS In the first forum we were in a balance with davos @ 16

DAVOS @ 29

DEBATE CONFLICTS We must discuss the past of the forum @ 15

DEBATE CONFLICTS debate of almost 20 years on the letter @ 1

DEBATE CONFLICTS I very much agree with what the representatives of the International Council have said in some way here, although I know the other part of the International Council @ 42C

DEBATE CONFLICTS Even within the conflicts that have arisen, a cultural environment is highly reflected. Knowing Mexico since the 1970s, it reminds me of many things, which is for example different from Brazilian culture . @ 50

DEBATE CONFLICTS and I am very happy to see that, here, the four of us are on the same side, right? - It is that the forum has to be political!   Some think that the forum should not and cannot be political @ 6

WEAR The forum is a ruin that must be transformed into seed @ 14

DIVERSITY The phrase unity in diversity does not help much, and in this sense, it must be recognized that if we are to meet various currents in this World Social Forum, @ 42B

E

SPACE FORUM @ 8 @ 28 @ 47 @ 'ç

SPACE For some the forum is a horizontal open space and all problems are at the same level @ 8

SPACE The WSF must allow space for them who are truly sub-human @ 28

F

WSF2021 If the Mexican Social Forum fails, it is the funeral of the World Social Forum . @ 56

Final FSM2021 - there is enormous potential for this forum. if this forum manages to be a new beginning. It is not a break, it is to start again, because the world has also changed a lot since 2001 @ 79

FUNCTION of the WSF International Council debated whether the WSF could not be a kind of center of active communication @ 9

FUNCTION the main task of a World Social Forum is to restore humanity to humanity @ 29

HIJ

HORIZONTALDITY For some the forum is a horizontal open space and all problems are at the same level @ 8

INCLUSION - avoid that these divergences are the divergences that will allow infiltration to enter organizations. Always seek some consensus after discussion where possible @ 73

INCLUSION the polarization within the Facilitating Committee is already great, there are people who feel marginalized, perhaps with reasons. @ 72B

INCLUSION Proposal 4 - Polariazcion in Mexico if you are not careful, there will be a parallel World Social Forum @ 71 sometime

INCLUSION Proposal 5 - to inclusion in inclusion criteria, is exactly what Francina has said: maximum inclusion from a left perspective, now we have to define what the left is. @ 72

YOUTH Young people were leaving the forum @ 20

M

ARTICULATION METHODOLOGY from the beginning, we intercommunicate themes: peace at the same table with the fight against climate change, the social system with ecology, etc., etc. as facilitators of a dialogue, organizers of Mexico make more public tables and not only self-organized @ 55

ARTICULATION METHODOLOGY there are communicative ghettos in the World Social Forum, that has to be avoided I know; I think we should go back to plenary sessions that fill the Zócalo @ 76

ARTICULATION METHODOLOGY discuss within the facilitating Committee, to know how best to articulate the different, the different problems within the Forum, so that they are not lost @ 49

ARTICULATION METHODOLOGY there was no mechanism or methodology, not only to keep informed, but articulated and builds strategic thinking from this, @ 39

ARTICULATION METHODOLOGY what possibility would there be if we focused the effort among others, but on these two concerns, how we calculate and how we build more elements of power in this forum @ 41B

ARTICULATION METHODOLOGY one of the Topics will focus on “how we achieve precisely the articulation of construction of collective knowledge @ 40B

MEXICO We do not know how to do a world forum in Mexico and the World Social Forum is self-organized, and while learning to self-organize there are a lot of disagreements. @ 42

MEXICO take advantage of the opportunity, because in 2022 24 26, it may be too late @ 79B

MEXICO As I have always said: the World Social Forum needs more from Mexico than Mexico from the World Social Forum @ 69

MEXICO The forum needs mexico @ 12

MEXICO Mexico helps the forum to become a political force @ 15

MEXICO Bringing the country to this process @ 1

N

NARRATIVE there are communication ghettos in the World Social Forum, that has to be avoided I know; I think we should go back to plenary sessions that fill the Zócalo @ 76

NARRATIVE Great problems of political articulation and construction of the common in the forum @ 20

NARRATIVE in this context that we have to build a thing that we have in common, with all our differences again @ 48

NARRATIVE there were people who were spokesmen, let's say, of various concerns but all heard and a certain narrative consensus was created @ 75

NARRATIVE what all these people do (in davos) is to build a discourse; a narrative. They are building a consensus, and of course there are many divergences between them, but they agree on the capitalist line, the universal line @ 43.

NARRATIVE Our task is to have a political message for all who are in the forums @ 7

NARRATIVE we have to build a line, one thing we have in common, one thing we all agree on @ 44

WE cannot give hope to the oppressed who are only afraid, without causing a little fear to the oppressors who only have hope. That's politics @ 27

WE in this context that we have to build a thing that we have in common, with all our differences again @ 48

WE are going to have hope if we put a little fear into the powerful @ 32

WE This idea of ​​total consensus in the organization led us to not really be political @ 17

O

OBJECTIVE how to define a new Objective and how to really update after almost 20 years what this forum is. @ 36

AIM To build a global political subject @ 5

OBJECTIVE of facilitators: Objective of the forum we want to carry out @ 4

ONGs The fsm has to be more of movements than of ngos to be able to work taboo subjects @ 23

NGOs There is a forum policy in the sense that large NGOs bring their clients - and for this reason it will not bring the most radical @ 18

P

PARTICIPATION @ 31

PLENARY there were people who were spokesmen, let's say, of various concerns but all heard and a certain narrative consensus was created @ 75

PLENARY proposal 6 - do not make the mistakes that some “basism” in the World Social Forum, and Leo has said that a bit, in my opinion, eliminated much of the visibility of the World Social Forum, leaving plenary sessions @ 74

PLENARY, there are communication ghettos in the World Social Forum, that has to be avoided I know; I think we should go back to plenary sessions that fill the Zócalo @ 76

PLENARY FROM the beginning, we intercommunicate themes: peace at the same table with the fight against climate change, the social system with ecology, etc., etc. as facilitators of a dialogue, organizers of Mexico make more public tables and not only self-organized @ 55

POLITICS Mexico helps the forum to become a political force @ 15

POLITICS Mexico helps the forum to become a political force @ 15

POLITICS Whenever there was a political problem there was no discussion @ 21

POLITICS N This idea of ​​total consensus in the organization led us to not be really political @ 17

POLITICS we cannot give hope to the oppressed who are only afraid, without causing a little fear to the oppressors who only have hope. That's politics @ 27

SMALL POLICY @ 29

POLITICS We are the ones who want to give political teeth to the forum that was depoliticized @ 13

POLITICS and I am very happy to see that, here, the four of us are on the same side, right? - It is that the forum has to be political!   Some think that the forum should not and cannot be political @ 6

POLITICO In the first forum we were almost in balance with davos @ 16

POSITIONING the forum if it is a space, it is a space of spaces, it is a space for all progressives, all on the left, not for the right, and we have to know that. @ 47

POSITIONING OF THE FORUM For me the forum should be anti-capitalist @ 19

POSITIONING there is a part of people, some within the International Council who no longer know the difference between left and right @ 47

POSITION IDEOLOGICAL MINING We cannot do all the social forum, it cannot be all people @ 26

PRONUNCIATION how to guide the forum to not only a meeting and an exchange of groups, but to go more to the formulation of a timely declaration to promote, more action than pure exchange of information @ 35

PRONUNCIATION We have organized dozens and dozens of UPMS workshops. We conclude that we should always end with a public act, and with a certain political declaration for the country, @ 78

PRONOUNCEMENTS A social forum cannot pronounce on palestine? @ 25

PRONOUNCEMENTS When the fsm cannot make a declaration in favor of Dilma @ 22

PROPOSALS I am going to try to be quite constructive and pragmatic in the things that can be done, because we are a year away from the organization of the forum, and for me the World Social Forum in Mexico is crucial. @ 55B

INDIGENOUS PEOPLES Proposal 3 It does not cross my mind that in the Facilitating Committee we do not have indigenous peoples with a strong presence @ 70

SPRAYING The danger of one thing side by side @ 11

R

RESULT We have organized dozens and dozens of UPMS workshops. We conclude that we should always end with a public act, and with a certain political declaration for the country, @ 78

RESULTS to participate in this, even if it is a trial, to form power, to form a bloc that has the capacity (international assembly of peoples) @ 53

RESULTS To build power from our unity, which is formed through this difficult dialogue. This has to be externalized and can only be externalized by trying actions. @ 52

RESULTS the colleague who said "the Social Forum ends nothing happened": it is the greatest frustration @ 77

RESULTS People vote with their feet: the next one doesn't come, and that's how we lost a lot of people: Why go? let's talk, after nothing is decided, nothing happens after @ 62B

RESULTS Another issue is how we build power, you really need to have power, @ 41

RESULTS ending the forum, nothing relevant happened @ 40

RESULTS a public statement denouncing the so-called "sacrificial zones" @ 78B

U

UNITY Build power from our unity which is formed through this difficult dialogue. This has to be externalized and can only be externalized by trying actions. @ 52

UNITY The phrase unity in diversity does not help much, and in this sense, we must recognize that if we are going to meet various currents in this World Social Forum, @ 42B

VOICES There are communicative ghettos in the World Social Forum, that has to be avoided I know; I think we should go back to plenary sessions that fill the Zócalo @ 76

SPEAKERS there were people who were spokesmen, let's say, of various concerns but all heard and a certain narrative consensus was created @ 75

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SUPPLIES

  • Oscar @ 1 @ 2 - @ 33 to 38 - @ 80
  • Francine @ 3 a @ 8 @ 43- @ 48
  • Leo @ 9 to @ 11 - @ 50 to @ 55
  • Boaventura @ 12 a @ 32 - @ 56 a @ 79
  • Felix @ 39 a @ 41
  • Miguel @ 42

 

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SUMMARY in chronological order of inputs

http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2020-discusionfsm-input20-en

  • almost 20 years debate on the letter @ 1
  • Bring the country to this process @ 1
  • Strong problems solve weak @ 2
  • Two thematic axes @ 3
  • Objective of the forum we want to carry out @ 4
  • Build a global political subject @ 5
  • Some think that the forum should not and cannot be political @ 6
  • Our task is to have a political message for everyone on the @ 7 forums
  • For some the forum is a horizontal open space and all problems are at a level @ 8
  • International Council debated whether the WSF could not be a kind of active communication center @ 9
  • The way to move forward in the process of organizing the forum itself ... is the form of assembly ... which could be well used, to take, say, the reins of the process of organizing the World Social Forum @ 10
  • The danger of one thing next to another @ 11
  • The forum needs mexico @ 12
  • We are the ones who want to give political teeth to the forum that was depoliticized @ 13
  • The forum is a ruin that must be transformed into seed @ 14
  • You have to discuss the past of the forum @ 15
  • Mexico helps the forum to become a political force @ 15
  • In the first forum we were in a balance with davos @ 16
  • This idea of ​​total consensus in the organization led us to not be really political @ 17
  • There is politics in the sense that large NGOs bring their clients - and for this reason it will not bring in the most radical @ 18
  • For me the forum should be anti-capitalist @ 19
  • Great problems of political articulation and construction of the common in the forum @ 20
  • Young people were leaving the forum @ 20
  • Whenever there was a political problem there was no discussion @ 21
  • When the fsm cannot make a statement in favor of Dilma @ 22
  • The fsm has to be more movements than ngos to be able to work on taboo topics @ 23
  • You can't really argue about Israel @ 24
  • Can't a social forum comment on palestine? @ 25
  • We cannot do all the social forum, it cannot be all people @ 26
  • We cannot give hope to the oppressed who are only afraid, without causing a little fear to the oppressors who only have hope. That's politics @ 27
  • The WSF must allow space for them who are truly sub-human @ 28
  • the main task of a World Social Forum is to restore humanity to humanity @ 29
  • there are some organizations that are going to try to control the World Social Forum, @ 30
  • The World Social Forum must follow a principle: who finances does not put conditions on who is going to come, and what we are going to discuss, @ 31 -
  • we will have hope if we put a little fear into the powerful @ 32
  • In March 2018 and November 2018, we have asked, even in writing, for the Charter of Principles @ 33 to be reviewed by the facilitating group in Mexico.
  • there are those who consider that it is necessary to conform to what the letter says, without considering that every rule and every principle has to be interpreted so there are some interpretations that have a little to the right and others to the left @ 34
  • how to guide the forum to not only a meeting and an exchange of groups, but rather to the formulation of a timely declaration to promote, more action than pure exchange of information @ 35
  • how to define a new Objective and how to really update after almost 20 years what this forum is. @ 36
  • It would be one of my questions: what do we do to review, if there is a need or not to review this Letter of Principles? @ 37
  • We have spoken here of a possible letter from Mexico that gives rise to a real uprising, and that really prompts a new stage of the forum.
  • There was no mechanism or methodology, not only to keep informed, but articulated and builds strategic thinking from this, @ 39
  • finishing the forum, nothing relevant happened @ 40
  • one of the Themes will focus on “how exactly do we achieve the articulation of construction of collective knowledge @ 40B
  • another issue is how we build power, you really need to have power, @ 41
  • what possibility would there be if we focused the effort among others, but on these two concerns, how do we calculate and how do we build more elements of power in this forum @ 41B
  • we don't know how to do a world forum in Mexico and the World Social Forum is self-organized, and while learning to self-organize there are a lot of disagreements. @ 42,
  • The phrase unity in diversity does not help much, and in this sense, it must be recognized that if we are to meet various currents in this World Social Forum, @ 42B
  • @ 42C I very much agree with what the representatives of the International Council have said in some way here, although I know the other part of the International Council
  • what all these people do (in davos) is to build a speech; a narrative. They are building a consensus, and of course there are many divergences between them, but they agree on the capitalist line, the universal line @ 43.
  • we have to build a line, one thing we have in common, one thing we all agree on @ 44
  • I think this Letter of Principles is no longer useful, but it is not so important @ 45
  • I mentioned twice last week at the International Council; that part of the people who say they are from the left said that there was no coup in boliviar, which for me is a violation of a letter of principle, but no one answered; nobody reacted; They don't want to know. @ 46
  • there are a part of people, some within the International Council who no longer know the difference between left and right @ 47
  • the forum is a space, it is a space of spaces, it is a space for all progressives, all on the left, not for the right, and we have to know that. @ 47
  • in this context we have to build a thing that we have in common, with all our differences again @ 48
  • there is a facilitating committee in Mexico, I greatly admire the work that was done in this committee, it was not easy, because there was never a decision by the International Council, and all the work they did was a little hoping that the Council would agree . @ 48B
  • discuss within the facilitating Committee, to know how best to articulate the different, the different problems within the Forum, so that they are not lost @ 49
  • Even within the conflicts that have occurred, a cultural environment is highly reflected. Knowing Mexico since the 1970s, it reminds me of many things, which is for example different from Brazilian culture . @ 50
  • In everything to qualify and not take advantage of the principle of consensus, and this would be very bad to block decisions @ 51
  • Build power from our unity, which is formed through this difficult dialogue. This has to be externalized and can only be externalized by trying actions. @ 52
  • to participate in this, even if it is a trial, to form power, to form a bloc that has the capacity (international assembly of peoples) @ 53
  • The letter was written after the first World Social Forum in Porto Alegre. This letter should be very, very alive, very provisional, @ 54
  • from the beginning, we intercommunicate themes: peace at the same table with the fight against climate change, the social system with ecology, etc., etc. as facilitators of a dialogue, organizers of Mexico make more public tables and not only self-organized @ 55
  • I am going to try to be quite constructive and pragmatic in the things that can be done, because we are a year away from the organization of the forum, and for me the World Social Forum in Mexico is crucial. @ 55B
  • If the Mexican Social Forum fails, it is the funeral of the World Social Forum . @ 56
  • Proposition 1 - you Mexicans consider yourselves from now on as the owners and owners of the World Social Forum in Mexico. @ 57 owner of a common good What to take care of @ 58
  • Selfishness (?) of organizations should be removed carefully, if with much conversation, but should not follow the consensus norm @ 59
  • I am very much in favor of consensus. But you know how a consensus is built: it is hours, days, sharing lives ... Now, going to a meeting where we are two three hours, and then saying "there is consensus" is false @ 60
  • We must go with the commitment that we all have, with majority solutions @ 61
  • we want the consensus of everything, even in the council of the international Council there is an idea: "in the forum is the consensus" @ 62
  • People vote with their feet: next time they don't come, and that's how we lost a lot of people: Why go? let's talk, after nothing is decided, nothing happens after @ 62B
  • the International Council does not have ethical conditions to have a lot of power at the moment, because it does not have any representativeness @ 63
  • that there is a process of building the representativeness of an International Council - that every local committee that organizes a World Social Forum immediately has 20-30% of the seats on the International Council, @ 65
  • But there are people who want to perpetuate themselves, and want to control what there is, ... so it is an egotrip in some way, @ 66
  • Proposal 2 I would have the audacity to suggest to the facilitating Committee of Mexico what it considers that it does not need the authorization of anyone for that, that this World Social Forum in Mexico has constitutional power, is constituent, that is, it can propose changes to the Charter of Principles, the International Council can propose changes, it can propose the creation of other councils, assemblies of which I speak Leo, that is, it can propose something else @ 67
  • I have the audacity to have the Social Forum in my hands to save it @ 68
  • As I have always said: the World Social Forum needs more from Mexico than Mexico from the World Social Forum @ 69
  • Proposal 3 It does not cross my mind that in the Facilitating Committee we do not have indigenous peoples with a strong presence @ 70
  • Proposition 4 - Polariazcion in mexico if you are not careful, there will be a parallel World Social Forum @ 71 sometime
  • Proposal 5 - to inclusion in inclusion criteria, is exactly what Francina has said: maximum inclusion from a left perspective, now we have to define what the left is. @ 72
  • the polarization within the Facilitating Committee is already great, there are people who feel marginalized, perhaps with reasons. @ 72B
  • - avoid that these divergences are the divergences that will allow infiltration to enter organizations. Always seek some consensus after discussion where possible @ 73
  • Proposal 6 - they do not make the mistakes that some “basism” in the World Social Forum, and Leo has said that a bit, in my opinion, eliminated much of the visibility of the World Social Forum, leaving plenary sessions @ 74
  • there were people who were spokesmen, let's say, of various concerns but all heard and a certain narrative consensus was created @ 75
  • , there are communicative ghettos in the World Social Forum, that has to be avoided I know; I think we should go back to plenary sessions that fill the Zócalo @ 76
  • the colleague who said "the Social Forum is over nothing happened": it is the greatest frustration @ 77
  • We have organized dozens and dozens of UPMS workshops. We conclude that we should always end with a public act, and with a certain political declaration for the country, @ 78
  • a public statement denouncing the so-called "sacrificial zones" @ 78B
  • end - there is enormous potential for this forum. if this forum manages to be a new beginning. It is not a break, it is to start again, because the world has also changed a lot since 2001 @ 79
  • take advantage of the opportunity, because in 2022 24 26, it may be too late @ 79B
  • to continue advancing in the facilitator group, even if there is a difference as stated here, we are going to find a way to move forward in the organization .. @ 80