• casablanca 201312 extension

last modified June 29 by facilitfsm


 Notes & transcriptions - Casablanca 16 & 17 decembre 2013

  - Casa report EN  +  informe Casa ES  +  rapport Casa FR   

 

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@1 (Kamal) Report sur comité maghrébin - @2 Gus 10h45 casa exposé FR EN ES     - @2 Gus 10h45 casa exposition EN - @2 Gus exposición ES  -  @3 Mireille FR EN   -@4 Mallory EN   - @5 (Gina) ES (11h45 casa)
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@6 - 13h44 Leo FR  -  @7 –Ouattara FR@8 - 1h08 Raphael –FR@9 1h11 Edda –ES -  Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 28:30@10 Genevieve FR   -   @11 -Raffaella EN  - @12 Omar AR - EN Palestine – - @13 Hugo EN  - @14 Ahmad AR - EN - @15 Shatha from iraq AR EN - @16 Eisa AR EN Iraq - @17 Tareq Iraq AR EN - ( 13h50 casa) leaving for lunch  - @18 Nathalie EN afternoon agenda - @19 (Tissar) EN Sahrawi dynamics:  -  @20 (Pierre) EN  - @21 (Liege) EN  - @22 (Zied) EN - @23 (Damien) EN - @24 (Mireille) EN - @25 suha EN - @26 Gina EN - @27 Rita EN  - @28 Taofik EN  - @29 Mimoun EN  - @30 Nathalie EN  - Martina : (facilitation)  - @31 Genevieve EN - @32 Chico EN  - @33 Marc EN - @34 Saida EN - @35 X- EN  - @36 Bernard EN  - @37 Vittorio EN  - @38 Taofik - EN - @39 Uddhab EN - @40 Issa EN reseau ouest african dette cdtn niger - @41 Raphael EN  - @42 Raffaella EN - @43 Damien EN - @44 Gus EN  - @45 Leo EN  - @46 Jason EN  - @47 Cheima EN  - @48 Genevieve EN  - Nathalie:no synthesis

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@ 50 X –tunisia. 23 - @51 Marc. 23  - @52 mallory. 23 - Video ustram.tv : “ ic-extension » 06:27. 23 - @53 Saida FR. 23 - @54 Martina –. 24 - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 08-44. 24  - @55 (Gina )– ES. 24  - @56 Bernard FR. 24  - @57 Mauri FR. 24 - @58 uddhab EN.. 25  - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 08-36. 25  - @59 Hugo EN.. 25  - @60 Omar AR EN.. 25  - @61 Leonardo EN.. 26  - @62 4mn19 kamal -FR. 26  - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 04 12. 26  - @63 Pierre FR. 26  - @64 Souha <FR>. 27 - @65 Leo EN.. 27  - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 19 55. 27 - @66 sergio ES. 27 - @67 Chico FR. 28 - @68 Feroz EN.. 28 - @69 X AR EN.. 28  - @70 shatha-AR EN iraq. 29 - @71 Martina -EN.. 29  - @72 Cecilia ES. 29 - @73 Rita ES. 30  - @74 Zied AR EN.. 30 - @75 Martina –. 30

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 - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 13 03 ( erased?). 30  - 76A Jason EN.. 31  - 76 -Quebec 2015 presentation EN.. 31 - 76B Carminda ES. 31 - 76C Raphael FR. 32  - 76D carminda ES. 32  - 76E-Louis philippe FR. 32 - 76F - Carminda ES. 33  - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 9 43 ( erased?). 33 - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 3 23 ( erased?). 33 - 77 -Kamal EN Tunis 2015. 33  - 77A Kamal.FR Tunis 2015. 34  - 78 -Uddhab WSF 2015. 34 - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 0 52 ( erased?). 34  - 79 Text by amit read by pierre ( through skype). 34 - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 6 19 ( erased?)

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- 80 -questions to all EN - 80A Francisco <FR> 4:00-5:30 - 80B Chico <FR> 5:40-6:20  - 80C Ouatara- EN– - 80C - Ouatara- FR  - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 0 55 ( erased?)  - Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 7 04 ( erased?) - 81A - Answers from Quebec EN  - 81B - Quebec answers.FR ES  - 81B – Carminda ES  - 82- Answers from Uddhab EN  - 83 – Answers from Kamal & Mouhieddine–EN  - Jason –Lunch break

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Practical Indications

@notes

Some parts of interventions have been copied in the report @CG means general context,@CM = context of movements, @MF = movements and forum process, @TF = topics in the forum, @EO= event organisation, @OF = organisation of forum process, @CI= tasks and organization of IC

Certaines parties des interventions ont été copiées dans le rapport : @CG veut dire contexte general,@CM = contexte de mouvements, @MF = mouvements et le forum, @TF = themes dans le forum, @EO= organisation des evennements forum, @OF = organisation du processuss forum, @CI= taches et organisation du CI

Algunas partes de las intervenciones fueron copiadas en el relatorio: @CG sginifica contexto general,@CM = context de movimientos, @MF = movimentos y proceso foro, @TF = temas en el foro, @EO= organización de eventos, @OF = organisation del proceso foro, @CI= tareas y organización del CI

Video links – enlaces videos

For technical and organizational reasons the video recording has been missing and further some extracts which were originally accessible are no more accessible in the server, so the video coverage remaining is partial

Pour des raisons technique et d’organisation , les enregistrements video manquent et certains extraits acessible au départ ne le sont plus, donc la couverture est partielle

Por razones tecnicas y organizativas , la grabacion vido falta y algunos extractos accesible ya no lo son en los servidores, entoces la cobertura es parcial

(nom)

If Name of speaker is  between parenthesis, it means notes are taken not verbatim

Si le nom est entre parentheses cela signifie que les notes sont synthetiques et pas littérales

Si el nombre esta entre parentesis significa que las notas son sintetizadas y no transcripciones

(translation AWC)

This means that english text is result of transcription of video in Arabic and then translatin in English by a babels team  located in Cairo


 

16 dec-1 – initial expositions

@1 (Kamal) Report sur comité maghrébin

Waiting for a text from kamal as no recording nor notes are available

@2 Gus 10h45 casa exposé FR EN ES

L’analyse de la situation globale est résumée dans le texte “Sortir du néolibéralisme” qui a été envoyé sur la liste du CI en français, anglais et espagnol.

http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/tunisg3-contribution6-en

http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/tunisg3-contribution6-es

http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/tunisg3-contribution6-fr

 

Dans cette intervention, je vais pointer quelques questions qui concernent le FSM en tant que processus et le CI.

 

Le débat sur la situation du processus est toujours aussi vif ;

Il reflète en fait le débat sur la situation des mouvements. En réponse à la prise de position d’Emir Sader qui considère que le FSM est devenu insignifiant, Tord Bjorg estime que les mouvements en Amérique latine sont partagés entre cinq positions : la construction d’un espace ouvert aux mouvements et aux ONG ; la proposition d’une internationale avec des partis et des Etats à l’exemple du Venezuela ; la proposition d’un ensemble de mouvements sociaux radicaux proposé au Sommet accompagnant Rio+20 ; la proposition de Emir Sader dite par Tord « étatito-centrée » qui donne la priorité à la négociation entre les mouvements et leurs états ; les mouvements Black Blocs 2.0 comme à Rio. La discussion porte d’abord sur la stratégie des mouvements.

[ voir les contributions emir sader et tord bjork la discussion dans le tunis G3 group http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/cifutur-strategies ]

 

@CI@La reconstruction du CI dépend de l’évolution du processus. Il faut une stratégie qui parte des propositions pour le processus dans les quatre ou cinq prochaines années et qui définisse un plan d’urgence qui porte sur quelques points : décision sur les prochains FSM ; recomposition du CI ; maintien d’un secrétariat minimum ; mise en place de groupes de travail ouverts.

 

@CI@La recomposition du CI passe par une définition plus précise. C’est une Assemblée ouverte des mouvements sociaux et citoyens qui sont prêts à participer activement à l’organisation et au développement du processus des FSM. L’élargissement du CI serait recherché auprès des mouvements qui ont participé au comité d’organisation des FSM et de tous les forums et événements liés au processus. La proposition est de proposer à tous les membres le choix entre trois catégories de membres. Les membres actifs s’engagent à participer activement au fonctionnement et aux activités du CI. Ils s’engagent à assurer une contribution permettant l’autonomie du secrétariat ; soit sous forme d’une contribution financière proportionnelle à leurs moyens, soit sous forme d’une mise à disposition de moyens humains pour la prise en charge des tâches. Les membres associés souhaitent s’associer au processus sans être membre actif. Il faudra décider si le consensus est assuré entre les seuls membres actifs ou avec les membres associés. Les observateurs permettent de faire participer au CI les mouvements intéressés par le processus sans vouloir ou pouvoir s’y engager fortement.

 

@CI@Le CI doit être équilibré entre les régions avec une ouverture géopolitique vers les mouvements des nouvelles puissances et des nouveaux mouvements. Le CI doit décider de former un groupe de travail sur la recomposition et l’élargissement du CI.

@CI@Le CI doit s’appuyer sur des groupes de travail ouverts à partir des thèmes qu’il identifie et confier à des mouvements qui les proposent des initiatives dans les différents domaines comme c’est le cas pour le calendrier.

 

@OF@Le Processus ne faiblit pas. Il y a aujourd’hui plusieurs propositions d’organiser un Forum Social Mondial dans différentes régions (Maghreb ; Inde ; Amérique du Nord). La multiplication des forums nationaux, régionaux et thématiques démontre la vitalité du processus (le CI de Casablanca a identifié déjà 33 événements à partir des membres présents). Il faut signaler la montée en puissance des forums sociaux locaux (une vingtaine de France, Belgique, Québec se sont adressés au CI pour proposer une initiative de systématisation). Il y a aussi les événements divers qui s’associent au processus. Les informations régulières sont mises à jour sur le site open-fsm (http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2013-calendar).

 Voir le calendrier 2014 http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2014-calendar ]

 

L’épuisement du néolibéralisme comme phase de la mondialisation capitaliste s’est traduite par une évolution de la mondialisation marquée par la différenciation de la situation par grandes régions. Cette différenciation est renforcée par la crise de l’hégémonie des Etats-Unis et de l’Europe ; les puissances émergentes cherchant à renforcer leur influence comme leader de leur région. Les mouvements sociaux sont confrontés à cette évolution et aux stratégies différenciées des forces dominantes qu’ils affrontent. @G@ Cette situation contribue à fragmenter les mouvements et constitue un défi pour le mouvement altermondialiste. Une des réponses possibles est de mieux organiser le processus des FSM par grandes régions en donnant une visibilité et une plus grande place aux forums sociaux des grandes régions. Une des propositions est d’organiser au moins un forum par grande région tous les trois ans et de considérer qu’il s’agit d’une nouvelle forme de forum social mondial polycentré.

 

Le Forum social mondial reste le moment privilégié de la convergence des mouvements. C’est un espace de rencontre à l’échelle mondiale. L’objectif principal est de définir une stratégie globale des mouvements, une stratégie internationale correspondant à la nouvelle période. Au début des FSM, la stratégie internationale avait ciblé les institutions internationales (FMI, BM et OMC) et proposait de s’appuyer sur le droit international. La situation a changé et le capitalisme financier a déclassé les institutions internationales. Les mouvements doivent définir une nouvelle stratégie mondiale. Les FSM peuvent y contribuer.

 

@OF@Plusieurs forums sociaux locaux de France, de Belgique et du Québec ont proposé au Conseil International du FSM de créer un outil destiné à rendre plus utiles les activités des forums sociaux mondiaux et des évènements associés au processus des FSM. Cet outil devrait permettre d’identifier les activités qui se déroulent dans le cadre d’un forum, de donner les indications pour entrer en contact avec leurs organisateurs, de relier les évènements proches qui se déploient dans plusieurs forums. Les participants facilitateurs des Forums sociaux locaux prendront en charge la définition et la mise en œuvre de cette initiative.

@2 Gus 10h45 casa exposition EN

The analysis of the overall situation is summarized in the text " Getting Out of neoliberalism " which was sent to the list of IC in French , English and Spanish. In this intervention , I will point out some issues that affect the WSF as a process and the IC .

http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/tunisg3-contribution6-en

@CM@2 The debate on the state of the process keeps vivid ; it actually reflects the debate on the state of movements. 

In response to the position of Emir Sader who considers that the WSF has become insignificant, Tord Bjork believes that movements in Latin America a distributed between five positions : that of construction of a space open to movements and NGOs ,  the proposal of an international with States  and parties with the example of Venezuela, and the proposal of a set of radical social movements proposed in the counter summit accompanying Summit Rio +20 , the proposal from Emir Sader, labeled  by Tord " state- centered " which gives priority to negotiation between movements and their states , and the Black  block 2.0 movements in Rio. The discussion focuses primarily on the strategy of movements.


@CI@2 The reconstruction of the IC depends on the evolution of the process. We need a strategy that departs from proposals for the process in the next four or five years and defines a contingency plan which covers a few points: decision on the next WSF redial CI , maintaining a minimum secretariat, setting up open working groups.


@CI@2 The recomposition of IC requires a more precise definition . This is an open assembly of social movements and citizens who are willing to actively participate in the organization and development of the WSF process . The expansion of the IC would be sought from movements that participated in the organizing committee of the WSF events and all forums and events in the process. The proposal is to provide all members a choice between three categories of members. Active members are committed to actively participate in the operation and activities of the IC . They undertake to provide a contribution allowing autonomy of the secretariat, either or as financial contribution proportional to their means, or as a provision of human resources to support tasks. 

Associate members wishing to join the process without being an active member . It needs to be decided whether consensus [ for decisions o in IC] is achieved between the active members only  or also associate members. observers allow movements interested in the process without being willing or able to engage strongly to participate in IC.


@CI@2 The IC must be balanced among regions with a geopolitical opening to the movement of new powers and to new movements. The IC must decide to form a working group on the reorganization and expansion of the IC .

@CI@2 The IC must be relying on open working groups based focused on themes  that it identifies, and assign to movements that propose them initiatives in different areas, as is the case for the WSF calendar.


@OF@2 The process is not weakening. Today there are several proposals to organize the World Social Forum in different regions ( Maghreb , India, North America) . The proliferation of national, regional and thematic forums demonstrates the vitality of the process (Casablanca IC has already identified 33 events from the members present ) . It should be noted the rise of local social forums ( around twenty of them France , Belgium, Quebec directed themselves to the IC to suggest a systematization initiative) . There are also various events involved in the process . Regular information updates on open - WSF ( http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2014-calendar  ) .


Depletion of neoliberalism as a phase of capitalist globalization has resulted in an evolution of globalization marked by differentiation of the situation by major regions . This differentiation is reinforced by the crisis of hegemony of the United States and Europe , emerging powers are seeking to strengthen their influence as leaders in their region. Social movements are faced with this development and differentiated strategies of dominant forces they face. 

@OF@2 This situation causes fragmentation of the movements and poses a challenge to the anti-globalization movement. One possible answer is to better organize the WSF process by major regions in giving visibility and a greater role to social forums of the major regions . One proposal is to organize at least one forum by major region every three years and consider it as a new form of polycentric World Social Forum .


The World Social Forum remains the privileged moment of convergence for movements. It is a meeting place at world scale. The main objective is to define a global strategy of movements, an international strategy for the new period .

@CG@2  At the beginning of the WSF events, the international strategy had targeted international institutions (IMF, WB and WTO) and proposed to rely on international law. The situation has changed and financial capitalism has downgraded international institutions. Movements must define a new global strategy. WSF can help.


@OF@2 Several local social forums France , Belgium and Quebec have proposed Inter -national Council of the WSF to create a tool to make them more useful activities - my social forums and events associated with the WSF process . This tool should allow to identify the activities that take place in the context of a forum, to give directions to contact their organizers , to connect nearby events that unfold in several forum processes. Participants, who are facilitators of local social forums will support the definition and implementation of this initiative


@2 Gus exposición ES

El análisis de la situación general esta resumido en el texto " Salir del neoliberalismo ", que fue enviado a la lista de CI en Francés , Inglés y Español . En esta intervención , voy a señalar algunas cuestiones que afectan al FSM en tanto que un proceso y al CI.

http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/tunisg3-contribution6-es

@CM@2 El debate sobre el estado del proceso sigue muy vivo , lo que realmente refleja el debate sobre el estado de los movimientos . 

En respuesta a la posición de Emir Sader , que considera que el FSM se ha vuelto insignificante, Tord Bjork cree que los movimientos en América Latina se reparten entre cinco posiciones : la construcción de un espacio abierto a los movimientos y las ONG y la propuesta de una internacional con partidos y Estados Partes con ejemplo de Venezuela; y la propuesta de un conjunto de movimientos sociales radicales hecha en la contra-cumbre que acompañaba la Río +20 , la propuesta de Emir Sader calificada por Tord " estadisto centrada ", que da prioridad a la negociación entre movimientos y sus estados, y los movimientos black blocs 2,0 como en Río. La discusión se centra principalmente en la estrategia de los movimientos.


@CI@2 La reconstrucción del CI depende de la evolución del proceso . Necesitamos una estrategia que parta de propuestas para el proceso en los próximos cuatro o cinco años y defina un plan de contingencia que cubre algunos puntos : decisión sobre los próximos FSM, recomposición del CI, mantenimiento de un secretariado  mínimo; puesta en marcha de  grupos de trabajo abiertos .


@CI@2 La recomposicion del CI requiere una definición más precisa . Es una asamblea abierta de los movimientos sociales y ciudadanos quienes están dispuestos a participar activamente en la organización y desarrollo del proceso del FSM . La expansión del CI se solicitariá con los movimientos que participaron en el comité organizador de los  eventos FSM y todos los foros y eventos ligados al proceso . La propuesta consiste en proponer a todos los miembros la posibilidad de elegir entre tres categorías de miembros . Los miembros activos se comprometen a participar activamente en el funcionamiento y las actividades del CI. Se comprometen a aportar una contribución que permita la autonomía del secretaríado;  sea bajo la forma de contribuicion financiera  proporcional a sus medios , o bajo la forma de una provisión de recursos humanos para tomar tareas a cargo. Los miembros asociados que deseen asociarse al proceso sin ser miembro activo. Habria que decidir si el consenso para la decisiones del CI se logar entre los únicos miembros activos o miembros asociados. Los observadores permiten que participen en el CI movimientos interesados en el proceso sin estar dispuestos o capaces de comprometerse firmemente .


@CI@2 El CI debe ser equilibrado entre las regiones con una abertura geopolítica hacia los movimientos de nuevos potencias y nuevos movimientos . El CI debe decidir formar un grupo de trabajo sobre la reorganización y expansión de la CI.

@CI@2 El CI debe estar respaldado en grupos de trabajo abiertos en base a los temas que él identifica y confiar  a movimientos que las proponen iniciativas en diferentes áreas como es el caso para el calendario FSM


@OF@2 El proceso no se debilita . Hoy en día hay varias propuestas para organizar el Foro Social Mundial en diferentes regiones ( Magreb , India , América del Norte) . La proliferación de foros nacionales , regionales y temáticos demuestra la vitalidad del proceso (el CI de Casablanca ya tiene identificado 33 eventos a traves de los miembros presentes ) . Debe tenerse en cuenta el surgimiento de foros sociales locales (mas o menps veinte por Francia, Bélgica , Quebec se dirigieron al CI para proponer una iniciativa de sistematización ) . También hay varios eventos que se asocian en el proceso . Informaciónes esta periódicamente actualizas en el sitio  on- Open FSM - FSM abierto ( http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2014-calendar ) .


El agotamiento del neoliberalismo como fase de la globalización capitalista ha dado lugar a una evolución de la globalización marcado por la diferenciación de la situación por regiones principales. Esta diferenciación se ve reforzada por la crisis de la hegemonía de los Estados Unidos y Europa , las potencias emergentes que buscan fortalecer su influencia como líderes en su región. Los movimientos sociales se encuentran al contacto de esta evolución y de las estrategias diferenciadas de fuerzas dominantes que van enfrentando. Esta situacion contribuye en fragmentar los movimientos y plantea un desafío para el movimiento altermundista. 

@OF@2 Una respuesta posible es la de organizar mejor el proceso del FSM por grandes regiones dando visibilidad y un mayor papel a los foros sociales de las principales regiones . Una de las propuestas es organizar al menos un foro por grandes regiones , cada tres años, y considerar esto como una nueva forma de Foro Social Mundial policéntrico.


El Foro Social Mundial sigue siendo el momento privilegiado de convergencia de los movimientos. Es un lugar de encuentro para a escala mundial. El objetivo principal es definir una estrategia global de los movimientos , una estrategia internacional para el nuevo período . 

@CG@2 A principios de los eventos FSM , la estrategia internacional se había dirigido hacia las instituciones internacionales (FMI, BM y OMC ) y proponia respaldarse en el derecho internacional. La situación ha cambiado y el capitalismo financiero ha rebajado las instituciones internacionales. Los movimientos deben definir una nueva estrategia global. Los eventos FSM pueden ayudar .


@OF@2 Varios foros sociales locales de Francia, Bélgica y Quebec han propuesto al Consejo Internacional del Foro Social Mundial crear una herramienta para que sean mas utiles las actividades de los foros sociales mundiales y eventos relacionados con el proceso del FSM. Esta herramienta debe permitir identificar las actividades que tienen lugar en el contexto de un foro, dar indicaciones para contactar con sus organizadores , conectar eventos cercanos que se despliegan en varios foros. Los particpantes, facilitadores de foros sociales locales apoyarán la definición y puesta en práctica de esta iniciativa. 



@3 Mireille FR EN

La question de la colonialité/décolonialité dans le contexte de la mondialisation http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/tunisg3-contribution8-fr

Extrait FR - La seule manière de parvenir à une société idéale nest pas de fermer les yeux sur ces constructions [ raciales et coloniales] mais d’oser sen saisir pour les déconstruire, mettre à jour leur arbitraire, leurs effets discriminants, parfois masqués, en vue de leur transformation. En ce sens « explorer la décolonialité » oblige à se focaliser sur le principe de la reconnaissance comme une question de statut social et politique afin de ne plus appréhender les membres par leur origine ethnique originelle mais en leur reconnaissant un statut de partenaires égaux et différents dans les interactions sociales. Cela oblige à travailler sur la transformation des conditions structurelles de la domination pour déconstruire la catégorisation raciale.

The question of coloniality / decoloniality in the context of globalization http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/tunisg3-contribution8-en

Excerpt EN -The only way to achieve an other society is not to turn a blind eye to these constructions [ racial and colonial] but to dare to seize them in order to deconstruct them, reveal their arbitrariness and their sometimes hidden discriminating effects, with a view to their transformation. In this sense "to explore the “decoloniality" forces to focus on the principle of recognition as a question of social and political status in order to not understand the members through their ethnic origin, but by giving them status of equal partners in different social interactions.This requires to work on the transformation of structural conditions of domination to deconstruct racial categorization.

 

@4 Mallory EN

Statement to the World Social Forum International Committee on surveillance revelations on behalf of May First/People Link https://support.mayfirst.org/ticket/8200

The climate for civil society action has been severely impacted by the recent revelations by Edward Snowden: The United States, Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - with the help of many other governments and corporations - are spying on the world's citizens with impunity. These leaks confirm that the Internet is being colonized - and is in danger of being converted into a tool for repression rather meet its potential as a revolutionary global communications movement. While the NSA is in the headlines now, other governments around the world are also passing or preparing to pass repressive communications legislation which threatens the work of activists working on all issues.

Nearly without exception, those who are fighting against repressive regimes are doing so with the aid of the Internet; they are connected to a vast global network of people, a network which is at grave risk. Before, the Internet was a key tool for social movements at the turn of the century. Today, it is at risk of becoming a weapon used against direct action activists. Before, activists heralded the Internet for transparency, mutual aid and information exchange. Today, it is increasingly a tool used illegitimately by governments and corporations to frame, isolate, censor and collect intelligence from activists.

In just 10 short years, how has the decentralized Internet been taken from the people? The Internet is and has always been largely funded through capitalism. Most of the methods used to surveil the world depend on cooperation from corporations controlling important infrastructure. Not only must governments be held accountable for their violations of international and local laws, but we must never think that un-regulated Internet corporations will "do no evil" just because they say they will.

This analysis of the problem leads us to two different fronts of struggle: we must fight back the colonization of online space with a renewed conviction to preserve human rights in the age of the Internet. And we must also continue building upon existing alternatives to maintain the opennes of the Internet that still exists - a People's Internet. These alternatives include local intranets and mesh networks, trust-building with non-corporate providers, capacity building for activists in circumvention and cybersecurity, rapid response aid for those most at-risk, and the broad use of encryption.

Encryption still works, despite many confusing reports that came out of the Snowden leaks to the contrary. It's more important than ever to use encryption for protecting hard drives, email, instant messaging and web browsing. The NSA has not used brute force to break well-configured encryption, they have instead relied on corporate providers to disclose private keys, thereby circumventing encryption, not cracking it. It is key to understand that the math behind encryption has not been broken, where as our trust with corporate providers must necessarily be.

We must not cede the Internet to the NSA: we must re-double our efforts to use and build non-corporate secure Internet channels for organizing. We can all begin here with the WSF process and spread the message and build secure circles of trust.

 

@5 (Gina) ES (11h45 casa)

Algunas breves ideas sobre América latina @CG@ profundamente neoliberal - extractivistas - lucha por la tierra y el territorio - crecientemente fundamentalista - con excepción de uruguay - hay un movimiento de jóvenes - con profunda desconfianza al estado - articulación al rededor de luchas - de colonialidad

 SUMMARY ENGLISH

First, discussing the future of the IC would best be done in the context of a wider reflection on the future of the WSF as a whole. Second, a reflection on the congruence between activists' aspirations, WSF's  visions and IC's practices would help guide the conversations on the future of the IC and the WSF. Third, issues of democracy and decision-making practices were indicated as central to understand the tension between aspirations and achievements on the one hand and, on the other, to address the often unflattering perception by outsiders of the IC's internal practices. Fourth, a self-reinforcing process seems to connect a) the real or perceived hiatus between WSF's  visions and IC's practices,  b) forms of democracy and decision-making performed, and c) activists' disappointment and disengagement. Fifth, conducting the exercise of self-reflection of which this report is part can help to collectively negotiate a common way ahead for the WSF and for the IC, whichever form they may end up assuming once the process in under way. Sixth, to be truly transformative this exercise should be extended to activists from current social movements and civic and community-based organisations. Seventh, these new activists should not be considered as invited guests but as co-makers of the future of the WSF and of the IC.

RESUMEN ESPANOL

Se identifican “covnergencias” Primero/ La discusión del futuro del CI, como estructura orgánica, no puede ser separada de una evaluación exhaustiva del FSM en su conjunto.  Secundo /Relativa a. la distancia entre la visión, los valores que la inspiran y las prácticas sociales que se generan.   Tercero/Relativa a la democracia y las prácticas de toma de decisiones y generación de confianza  Quarto/Se refiere a los Impactos emocionales que trae la percepción de falta de dinámicas  democráticas,  en la pérdida de confianza, que se extiende a diferentes grupos y subgrupos, dentro del CI y fuera de él.  Quinto/¿Hacia  dónde?   Esta convergencia revela una importante capacidad analítica y teórica.  sexto/El trabajo del CI puede ser más fortalecido  si la membrecía se extiende hacia los que están en los nuevos espacios y formas de activismo global.  septimo/Esta convergencia aporta otro sentido a la expansión del CI. No es invitar a nueva gente a que participe en un espacio ya construido y decidido

Finalmente, como subraya Francine, las respuestas al cuestionario nos permiten  algunas conclusiones sobre las dinámicas del CI pero, a diferencia de las entrevistas no nos da respuestas relativas a la “crisis” existentes en los movimientos y la lenta declinación de la dinámica del FSM. Y este es también un punto central a discutir.

 RESUME EN FRANCAIS

Tout d'abord, discuter de l'avenir du CI serait mieux fait dans le cadre d'une réflexion plus large sur l'avenir du FSM dans son ensemble . Deuxièmement, une réflexion sur la congruence entre les aspirations , les visions du FSM les pratiques du CI des militants contribuerait à orienter les conversations sur l'avenir du CI et du FSM . Troisièmement, les questions de démocratie et des pratiques de prise de décision ont été indiqués comme centrales pour comprendre la tension entre les aspirations et les réalisations d'une part et , d'autre part, pour répondre à la perception par les étrangers souvent peu flatteuses des pratiques internes du CI . Quatrièmement, un processus d'auto-renforcement Semble se connecter avec a ) le hiatus perçu ou réel entre les visions FSM et les pratiques du  CI de FSM, b ) les formes de la démocratie et de la prise de décision effectuée , et c ) la déception et le désengagement  des activistes . Cinquièmement, la conduite de l' exercice de l'auto-réflexion dont ce rapport fait  partie peut aider à négocier collectivement une sortie positive  commune pour le FSM et le CI , quelle que soit la forme qu’ils finissent par assumer une fois que le processus est en route. Sixièmement, pour être vraiment transformateur,cet exercice devrait être étendu aux militants des mouvements sociaux  actuels et des organisations civiques et communautaires . Septièmement , ces nouveaux militants doivent pas être considérés comme des invités mais comme co- responsables de l'avenir du FSM et du CI .

16-2 Interventions before lunch

@6 - 13h44 Leo FR

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41781228

Sur ce qu'a dit gus : le fsm a trois axes neolibéralisme - milititarisme - racisme (mireille) -

@CG@ on dit que le néolibéralisme est en crise mais il va très bien -

@OF@Gus tu as dit de définir l'espace et le role des états d'une manière différente - impliquerait convergence entre acteurs des états contre le néolibéralisme - et société civile –

Voir si on ne peut pas intégrer ce courant de partis qui sont pour une alternative au néolibéralisme 

 @OF@ suis très en faveur de la régionalisation du fsm - seulement pour que les régions aient une vie propre - ca doit se lier aux thématique de chaque région - nous en europe on a de nouveau une esxpérience d'un forum contre extreme droite et populisme - il faut la régionalisation avec des thématiques adaptées - 

En ce qui concerne mouvements @CM@ puerta del sol - font partie des régions - la majorité des acteurs que l'on connait sont engagés dans ces moouvements - assemblées régionales qui collectent les iniitiatives des forums sociaux

Plaza del sol et tout ca ce sont des mouvements locaux - plutot des regions je ne crois que voir dans la représentativité de ce mouvement -@CM@ la majorité des fois - ce sont les memes acteurs qu’on connait de puis des années et qui sont engagés – sous quel aspect il y a une cohérence de structure avec element de participation tres fort

@7 –Ouattara FR

@OF@ groupe de travail sur la capitalisation proposé par Gus eviter de recycler et ressasser - groupe de capitalisation

Deux questions : renforcement de la dynamique a travers de l'espace en Afrique fsm au Kenya et Dakar @CI@ incapacité notoire ou refus délibéré du ci de s'impliquer comment ces espaces vont intégrer le conseil ?

@8 - 1h08 Raphael –FR

Regionalisation articulation méthodologique - proposition d'ivry intéressante - ..on craint rejoint la colonialité - choc des civilisation

@CM@trop localiser les luttes perdre la dimension de fraternité des peuples lien entre justice sociale et environnementale - penser la com - initiative - articuler les forums régionaux et leur permettre e se parler et les itnerconnecter - en 2006 ils se sont pas parlé - @OF@ comment les interconnecter - ne pas perdre de vue cette dimensionn

@9 1h11 Edda –ES

 Algunas informaciones de ARCI - miembro del consejo 5 7 diciembre en johanesburg - candidatura en manila - valor fuerte en afica - reunion en junio - con el comité promotor sur africano @OF@ ha sido reafirmado que el fsmmigarion es un processo del foro scial :mundial - hemos reafirmado este enlace - 2/ el forum de migracion est diferente del global forum ONU - ( se corta el sonido ..) 

 Video ustream.tv : “ ic-extension » 28:30

ic-extension  28:3016 December at 2h15

 

@10 Genevieve FR

<FR>F 0:00-0:58 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41781813

Juste un point, Gus avait fait passer un texte sur la liste CI .

@CM@ Nous avons eu en France une initiative extrêmement intéressante qui s’appelle Alternatiba ..c’est à dire la construction de village locaux globaux [pour la transition écologique et sociale]. ça c’est passé au pays basque a Bayonne avec un succès extraordinaire – et il y a eu un appel européen et international a multiplier les Alternatiba dans l’Europe et dans le monde www.alternatiba.eu

 

Il y a I’idée sous jacente que face aux questions climatiques qui sont des questions concrètes, on devrait pouvoir organiser un marche du sel par rapport au climat –marche du sel nous en rediscuterons peut être dans le conseil international

@11 -Raffaella EN

F 1:06- 5:00 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41781813

 I think it is true. Our agendas are very different, according to the different forms of liberalism we face. In the same time, I think and agree very much with what you said, that the alternative project, we are developing by resisting and fighting, is common.

@CF@ I think we have to work at the double level, respecting the different agendas and make visible the common elements and alternatives which come out of the resistance.

I have two points.

One, on the common elements, I would like to underline one major, fundamental point we have in common, which is democracy. We need democracy because democracy provides the powerless with power. And we need the space to fight, so we need democracy. Democracy has a lot of enemies. The liberal powers are trying to destroy our constitutions in Europe, the Islamist power created the constitutional crisis here (Morocco?).

@CM@ I think the problem is how to rebuild real democracy. That’s a common point and we have to focus on it.

The second point.

If we have to focus on regional diversity, we should pay a lot of attention to two points.

@OF@One is that we have to focus a lot on the intersections between the regions. The intersections are where dialogue and cooperation or conflict can develop. They can be bridged, or they can be borders. Mediterranean is an example, but also Mexico/US. All the regional intersections are very important to focus on.

@OF@ Finally, if we focus on regions, we should also say that the building of the actors in the WSF process and IC should be based on enlargement work done at the regional and national level. For example, we don’t have many Occupy and Indignados, but we have a lot of local movements based on participation at the community level, for defending natural and social commons. Territory, land, also work, schools and so on. They are the best examples of new movements we have. So it is useless discussing new actors; we are in the same situation everywhere. We are in different situations(?). @OF@ Enlargement should be based on regional and national base.

(facilitation : il est 13 20 casa on est 15 personnes – on arrete la liste)

@12 Omar AR - EN Palestine –

5:40-11:40http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41781813 6.40 - 11.40

(translation AWC) Good afternoon, perhaps the essence of what has been laid out is an analysis that there is what Mireille has called hegemony or the colonial octopus, and I agree with naming it that way, the colonial imperialism or the colonial imperial octopus...this on the one hand, and neoliberal expressions of it over the past years on the other, perhaps like suffering from asthma, cold, or flu.

In fact this continues in its policies, over the last ten years, the world has witnessed numerous wars in which millions have been killed, under different names. In my view, the World Social Forum’s fundamental mission in its founding charter and documents is to confront these trends ...be they from the burden of colonialism or from direct war or from neoliberal policies.

On the other hand, we have varied concerns, be these concerns in some countries... for example, electronic spying, or gay issues, or abortion; these issues for us, perhaps may be considered a bit sidelined in the Mashreq (Levant),

Why on the side? Because in our current reality that we face, we are dealing with occupation, we are dealing with sectarianism, we are dealing with external intervention, and we are dealing with terrorism,

@TF@ So with all we are facing, we believe that in the World Social Forum struggle, priorities need to be ordered along the following: where does the priority lie in the World Social Forum struggles, with the miserable situation in Palestine?

I believe that Palestine suffers from all that has been mentioned, there are 8 million refugees forced to migrate, 8 million refugees subject to delay for over 65 years. In those days, Resolution 194 of the UN and supposedly the whole world, and so the Social Forum should be in the struggle with us Palestinians for the right of refugee return.

In terms of women’s and youth issues, and all the issues discussed, we have a share, I say a big share in them as Palestinians, as people of the Levant, the Mashreq. I have not heard in the discussions so far anything about what is happening in Syria and Iraq, where, every day, terrorism is destroying Iraq, trans-border terrorism, in Syria and Iraq, and support adopted by states, be they directly colonial states or those that promote neoliberal policies that support these trends.

And I believe that this calls for signs highlighting our coming actions in the forum on these realities, which have gained particular human and world significance, and as such, when talking about the ...---- [timekeeper] --- I’m finishing up --- the various forums, and I hope this will be noted within those priorities, thank you

@13 Hugo EN

 11:40-15:25 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41781813

 I agree with all these analytical remarks, almost. I want to add some proposals to the practicalities. Gus & Genevieve asked to invite the new movements. That’s OK, important. But let me put the question.

@CF@ What about the old movements? What’s with the trade unions? From Europe, I can judge they have practically disappeared. They are not present now. During the three years I am a member of this IC, they disappeared step-by-step. Nobody is asking the question ‘Why?’ We had the experience in Germany when one of the biggest trade unions, the United Services Union (VERDI?) left the European and national forums process. They said, in short, the movements didn’t focus on the social issues – true or not – but we should take seriously such kinds of remarks.

On our maps, we have wide geographical areas. We had a strong movement when we had the European Social Forum in Malmo, Sweden. All of them have disappeared. No people from Scandanavia are participating since years now. What about those wide areas? What to do with them?

>From my point of view, about the IC, and we discussed it in our ATTAC groups in Germany. The IC needs more reliable structures. The reality, in my experience after three years here, is some members appear and some members disappear and there’s no personal reliability.

@CI@ I think defined personal responsibility is necessary to have a real, working structure.

@CI@ About the secretariat, very practically, I think it’s not to be avoided to introduce some member fee, depending on the financial possibilities.

 BTW Gina, I was shocked when I saw the result on the financial situation in the questionnaire. Only a very small minority was in favour to give the responsibility for the financial issues to the IC. Let me ask the question, ‘Where are we flying?’ If not the IC, who will be responsible?

@14 Ahmad AR - EN

<AR> M 15:50-18:20 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41781813

 (AWC) Thank you... one of the previous two interventions from (name?) diagnosing some of the issues that the International Council or the Social Forum are experiencing, and the second paper that was discussed and translations of the reality about what is happening in the world now,

In my opinion, discussing this issue calls for going back to the the climate and context in which the World Social Forum was first begun, there was unipolar globalization, claims of the end of history in favor of capitalism and imperialism, justified through neoliberal values.

Where are we now? Deep historical transformations are taking place in the world, and the region which extend to the world, the most important of them is the taking of the the American hand as the sole pole in the region and the entrance of new poles and axes to the region, Russia and China, in... terms of the US-Iranian understanding, or West Iran in the region,

@CG@the question, in my opinion, in the essence of the Social Forum’s work in creating long-term strategies, are we facing a new stage of re-dividing the world? Or is there a new stage that holds within it new social justice values?

This question, and what happens in the region, in my opinion, extends to impact the whole world. Now, how do we shape a program for the social forum that does not trail behind the movement of reality, but rather keeps pace with it, or works to drive the movement of reality forward.

@OF@Another point in my opinion, in assessing the World Social Forum in Tunis, we must view it very positively, because the bulk of the issues that were discussed there came from the realities on the ground and not from theory, the state and civil society, political Islam and development, all discussed in the reality on the ground, not as top-down theoretical.Thank you.

@15 Shatha from iraq AR EN

<AR> F 18:30-19:45

(translation AWC) Of course I am fortunate that I attended some of the meetings of the International Council for the Social Forum and learned of them that one of us helps the other. A colleague mentioned colonialism and intellectual dominance and we in Iraq are suffering from something very terrifying and that is represented in the intellectual and ideological dominance that’s applied everyday in a bloody and cruel way in Iraq until this very moment, my family contacted us and informed me that a large number of children and women were victim of terrorism today.

@CI@ I am asking the International Council to include as a part of its agenda a statement or a word or action to limit this phenomenon or there would be an adoption in the name of the progressives in the world against terrorism that kills dozens in Iraq everyday. And Thank You.

@16 Eisa AR EN Iraq

<AR> M 20:05-24:35 Eisa Iraq 2 20:08

(translation AWC) I am very pleased to be among you all participating and contributing and knowing the global ideas in this room. At first, I share and second the opinion of my dear professor Mustafa Ali that he presented in his comprehensive report about the status quo but as I am from Iraq I don’t care much about the theoretical terminology and I want to shed the light on the effect of massive destruction by the American colonialism on Iraq and its legacy of destruction to the infrastructure and the Iraqi social texture that became a victim to regions, neighboring countries and the regional interventions. It became a pressure on this side or the other and the recent U.S. waiver for Iran was the only a result of the great Persian pressure on the Iraqi case and the Syrian case.

And here I want to shed the light on what the colonialism left Iraq a shameful constitution that has different kinds of explanations that lead to rupturing the Iraqi fabric, subsequently it was characterized by factionalism and exploitation by $$ political Islam, which spread widely within Iraq. This political Islam has imposed par excellence what can never be viewed as a human culture not only that but also it spread ignorance and gives only Islamic choices as the only solution.That’s why I see that this very important to discuss it in our Forum.

@TF@The Social Forum whether Mashreq/Maghreb or Maghreb/Mashreq has to make decisions or at least activities that shed the light on the damage that affected Iraq by colonialism and addresses the support of terrorism outside Iraq to Syria that is highly funded and has many supporters and transborder implementers. What makes a Tunisian or a Moroccan come and end his life in Iraq killing large number of the Iraqi people, women and innocent children.

In fact, we have to study the Iraqi reality in the forum as it has many repercussions and political, economic and cultural complications and also a regional role in the country. We are facing a real division of the Middle East.Thank you.

@17 Tareq Iraq AR EN

 <AR> M 25:25 27:35Tareq from iraq 25:20

There is a risk indicator for the situation in Iraq and it is the migration of minorities in Iraq. In fact, it is a very risky indicator as it is two kinds of immigration, internal immigration and out-migration and that Iraq is losing some of its Iraqi components in terms of minorities.

@TF@ Iraq is being deprived of the Armenians and the Assyrians as they are migrating whether internal immigration or out-migration.

The ”Yazidi” have very strong pressures and in 2012, there were 100 suicides among men and women of youth exclusively.

 “The Mandaeans” they are not more than 400 families only in Iraq. Black-skinned people in southern Iraq until this day are subjected to the worst kinds of violations and there are other minorities such as (The Kaki’s, the Baha’is and the Gypsies) that are suffering until this very day from the change that happening in Iraq and are scared of the pressures that might be put on them.

And there is a component that is called “Kurevidi” Iraq acknowledged that it has been subjected to genocide but unfortunately, the decisions has not been active and this component also is being subjected to dissolution whether by doctrine or by nationalism. I hope your esteemed council to take into consideration the importance of politics and the influence of the democratic change for the minorities and the areas that are exposed to change and no to deprive the Arab people of these beautiful things. We hope that this will attract your attention and the attention of every serious person for these components.Thank you.

( 13h50 casa) leaving for lunch

@18 Nathalie EN afternoon agenda

@OF@ now how to articulate regional and global process?,

@CI@how would it fuel IC composition and role? This would be tomorrow morning 17 , then proposal for WSF 2015 end of 17 morning,

@CI@ then on 17th afternoon from which issue rethink role of IC and create groups on each issue 2h tomorrow afternoon,

Agenda is till Wednesday 18th noon many people depart Wednesday morning: elements to rethink ic, discussion may continue after the meeting, how we organize to deepen those points

@19 (Tissar) EN Sahrawi dynamics:

@TF@Foreign intervention in Maghreb and Africa needs to be a central topic to be discussed in the future, in particular Mali and Central Africa

The regional social forum in Maghreb-Mashreq needs to encompass other African coutries, otherwise we risk to consolidate racism

 @20 (Pierre) EN

@OF@ Regionalisation of the topics may cause regionalisation of the issues and struggles, whIch is not diminishing the usefulness of social forum events –we just need more exchange between those event processes

@OF@ The political view is not sufficient here . Let's take a “functional perspective” on the development of wsf process format and practices.

@OF@There is a need to cense outreach to and bring in contacts the groups initiating social forum processes

@OF@ 4 issues on functionnal perspective :

1 – developing ownership of wsf process and cooperation on line: Effective on line cooperation practices using face to face moments for most delicate tasks – how to develop ownership of wsf in organizations and in individuated/non structured movements ?

2 - organizing and sharing facilitation effort to sustain the general process: We need appropriate facilitation of the process and of discussions, a mapping of working groups giving service to the process, this requires self sustainment of trans-event initiatives based on broad contributing collectives

3 - rooting the process through local events and focusing on concrete alternatives: how can event committees involve a variety of organizations and movements combining various expectations viewpoints about forums?

4 - extending and meshing events through remote intercommunication: How to stimulate self organized horizontal inter-communication among participants in various processes

(see contribution 7  EN ES FR  in the Tunis G3 working group http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/cifutur-strategies

http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/tunisg3-contribution7-fr

http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/tunisg3-contribution7-es 

http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/tunisg3-contribution7-en 

@21 (Liege) EN

 We need to capitalize regional and local forums.

@OF@ The assembly of social movements was created precisely because the IC did not take the responsibility to create an agenda for social movements.

@22 (Zied) EN

@CF@ Biggest challenge today is difference between types of crisis that caused poverty, environmental disasters... but those who suffer most are the youth, we need to discuss how to involve them more strongly in the WSF . We need to decide which are responsibilities of all of us in the process.-importance to strengthen youth participation and need for assessment mechanisms

@23 (Damien) EN

@CI@ thanking for the questionnaire that help rebuild trust. Consolidating trust among us is fundamental to struggle together against neoliberalism.

@CM@ about enlargement we have only consenus on "new movements" maybe will be seen again in brazil during world cup but mobilization are not "movement" We have more popular mobilization but not necessarily social movements. Such mobilization ephemerons organization steep up and downs more effective on form than substeance “they are in love with themselves” but do not have enough strength to impact the system, and its not easy to involve them in the long term if they are not sustainable.

@CM@ $$ Religious fundamentalism has spread in all continents, its not a problem only in Maghreb-Mashreq, and such groups cannot be integrated in our space for their attitude on rights.

@CG@ The relation with progressive governments is complex since they are neoliberal productivists consumerist model and cause environmental degradation. left governments are not helping ngo and social movement

@OF@ A polycentric forum might divide global struggles. maybe have a succession of local national global forums to build proximity between local and global struggles, fitting a democratic model.

 @24 (Mireille) EN

@CG@ Liberal capitalism is in crisis since it cannot find solutions for its appetite and moves war to people (e.g. Iraq and now Africa). We need to mobilize and protect rights using international law, not the law of the strong. :

@OF@ About earlier words on coloniality in the charter the world "race" appears - this is a colonial word,

@CM@ Our goal is not only liberation but emancipation of people, the forum needs to work on this. We also need more discussion on issues like coloniality. @CI@ ic is not about just deciding things about forum but also a place to evolve ideas.

@CM@ be more precise about democracy which form do we want

@CI@ We need to send a solidarity message to Ameer Makhoul from Haifa who participated in our

@25 suha EN

$$ Islamist movements are drafting constitutions after revolutions in the Arab world and now we need to resist changes that violate people's rights. Women activists have been targeted by terrorists since they oppose the Islamists in power in Tunisia.

@TF@Women's freedom is always the first to be attacked by Islamists so we need a regional forum to focus on this, not forgetting the global level.

@26 Gina EN

Thanks to new presence of Palestinians, Sahrawi, Iraqis etc. we can now have more enriching discussions on how to react to current dynamics.

@CM@Feminist movements need to rethink itself within global struggles and local struggles (e.g. of Palestinian women) need to relate to feminist issues. We should not feel far away from indignant occupy movements only because the struggle against neoliberalism is not their priority.

 @27 Rita EN

@TF@Process for liberation of media from economic and political power is also important and is being articulated within the WSF with a joint charter of the Free Media Movement. In Latin America there is a common agenda in the continent to democratize the media, strong states like Brasil are unfortunately exercizing strong control on media. In brazil first battle in june was agaisnt media in the agenda of new movements ic needs to look at communication as a politcal agenda

@28 Taofik EN

The Forum space and process appears to be an excellent opportunity to re/create energy and connect among diversity.

@CF@But many who participate do not express themselves explicitly as anti- liberalist, and do not understand our uniformizing discourse against neo-liberalism.

@CM@The movements with which we have started the construction of regional and local forums have changed. The movements which started in Seattle have become much more “technical” and advocacy specialists professional and elitists and have participated less and less to the WSF process.

@OF@ We need to avoid being elitist. Are we able to provide equal visibility to all movements -Those who speak high and have a nice talk and others who do not appear or who appear and vanish, how to make them understand this space is for them?

@CG@The international economic institution (IMF in particular) have returned in regions like Europe (with its austerity measures) and Africa, stronger than before / we need to refocus our struggles against them. Some movements think the forum is not a place where struggle can start.

@29 Mimoun EN

@CM@The new movements do not find the WSF as their space, but also some of the “old” movements, which are in economic difficulty. Some are not here today.

@TF@In Morocco there are many local struggles dispersed : as an example in Ouarzazate 4000 women victims of microcredit .How to express solidarity to these many struggles?.

@30 Nathalie EN

We have finished the first time of debate; we propose that a few people get together after the time of tribute to Vinod in the evening, in order to prepare the start tomorrow.
Martina and Jason will be there now starting a sequence

Martina : (facilitation)

Let us divide topics: how can the WSF contribute on struggle on specific issue of migrants / peace movements / local

@31 Genevieve EN

@CM@It is also in the reverse: how movements give energy and contribute to world social forum process. It is two sided: How can the WSF contribute to struggles on specific issues, and how can specific movements contribute to the WSF process?

@32 Chico EN

Some reflection on past intervention and last proposal of debate : We need to have in mind nature of social forum : it is a space where a process develops of sharing struggle to acknowledge and find convergence and get out stronger-

@MF@Why should we be sad that people do not come in "our" space? They do not come because they have no more interest- Via Campesina started with meetings in 2001 forum- They used the forum and then the space was not useful anymore and participation is costly- Which of those spaces are useful?- Idea of thematic forum is an answer for them- They do not need a general space

They go to Sarajevo if they struggle on peace, those who are interested in energy go to Brasilia in the energy thematic forum - Those we are interested come and participate. Those who think that to unite is useful will come to the forum.

@CI@“We”, in the council need to help multiply occasions of events. People come in events not because we are nice , but because they think it is useful, and IC is just a body to facilitate the emergence of events. There is no council saying : “ come and join us”, Who are we to say this? The methodology of the forum is offering in itself something to movements to create alliances and linkages.

@33 Marc EN

Impact of the WSF on media was strong only in the first years, then it faded away and even before the forum event became weaker.

@OF@in my organisation (education trade union) we started soon to notice that WSF was disconnected from local people. One of the main axes of our work should be the development of alternative media.

@34 Saida EN

@OF@Now Chico recalls us what is a forum. the current phase is not about reinventing the forum but give it more functionality.

 I remember when we were out of momentum, and we gather momentum when social movements happened. Then we fall back in pessimism, as if some thematic are more inspiring to some. We are still in the initializing phase, as if we are fearing to tackle the wave of problem which comes with globalization. For me, forum remains important.

@MF@ This space remains essential to address the issues linked to the many faces of globalization. We cannot afford to get out ...?

@35 X- EN

@MF@Solidarity economy and ethical finances is a growing movement with little representation. Few networks evolved in time but solidarity economy is very based on local models, so it is difficult to develop international alliances.

 But this alternative model is fundamental to change the economic system starting by our personal choices on management of money and trade.

@EO@Solidarity economy cannot only be involved in the WSF through a small market besides the activities in events , we need to find other ideas.

We experienced lack of breath in the WSF after the events, while problems posed by globalization and violence are pervasive. This is still an important venue for discussion for the women movement.

@36 Bernard EN

To bring people together, we need sometimes thematic forums, and we need covergence assemblies. Movements to fight against war, and to build peace, are marked by diversity and have not been visible enough in the WSF . A thematic forum on peace is being organized in Sarajevo in June 2014, on the centenary from World War I, to discuss about a new century of peace 5 themes and 4000 people expected. The Event for Peace is going to include cultural activities, a youth camp and a Peace Social Forum based on the principles of WSF . Main issues: militarization, culture of peace and nonviolence, brand image of the enemy, reconciliation, women as peace agents..

@OF@. This is maybe the beginning of a new process on peace that may continue.We have a oscillation between general forums and thematic forums and we need both srajevo

@37 Vittorio EN

@ci@The new element introduced by WSF in 2001 was the fact that we all came together to discuss about neoliberal globalisation and what other globalisation is possible. Not to become leaders of social movements in the world.

“We” should go back to that original mission: organize a world net to analyse globalization. We need to avoid to become a “market” of thematic and territorial struggles. But see in which way each and every movement can be part of a common fight against financial globalisation.

Discussion about finance is the core- “we” cannot solve the problems of the social movements

@38 Taofik - EN

i disagree with what has been said by vittorio

@OF@We have promoted many thematic forums but done very little to systhematize the results. Same for the regional forums. What is fundamental is a “capitalisation” of what has been done in the name of the WSF in the last 13 years. Discontinuity in the process does not help to aggregate. we have plenty of analyses- we say many things and do not systematize-

@OF@ we say: let us intensify thematic forum .. let s do it- we speak about regional forum .. in the recent years some have disappeared- let us capitalize- essential if we want to go on- we agree on fundamentals forum space .. discontinuity in the process- we do not communicate enough- we cannot get back to classical recipes. The idea of thematic forum is not just to discuss about an issue, but to bring together and capture the energy and dynamics on that matter in specific territories.

@39 Uddhab EN

@CM@If social movements are not strong we cannot expect political movements to be strong either. In Nepal we need social movements to engage with political power. Recalling 2008 ic in Copehnhagen when was the rise of maoist in power in Nepal, and even them had to cope with neo-liberalism, and social movements are not strong enough

@40 Issa EN reseau ouest african dette cdtn niger

@MF@We need an analysis of why so many movements do not participate anymore in the WSF .

@OF@ The global forum should take and raise the issues that emerge in regional forums, where Problems are different. Otherwise some issues will be completely neglected in some areas. For example problems related to extractivism and land-grabbing that are strong in Africa need to be discussed and linked to global discussions , otherwise they go unnoticed -. We need to find ways to link thematic discussions from the base to the top. help that synthesis of regional forum get up to world level so they are taken into account

@41 Raphael EN

@OF@Since 2004 i hear about fatigue de-connection, absence of youth. But youth made camp in porto Alegre, then they go to public space. Youth multiply public space. We are actors of social movements and opening spaces. It works at all levels.

@OF@We need to avoid the word concurrence between forums.

@OFWe just need to articulate with new movements : they are innovative on the way to act, they organize in an original way- enormous methodological innovation in terms of the way of organising and practicing horizontal decision making..

@CM@ In Quebec the Occupy movement was strong and effective, and the new political culture of occupying public space and bringing together individuals is complementary and not in competition with the WSF. Many of the people who made the Montreal occupy movement,- with more people in Montreal occupy than in zuccotti park in new York, - had participated in the Social forum 2007 in Montreal.

 We need to find what “technology” to use to put into practice the complementarity and innovate our forms of organization.

@42 Raffaella EN

Agree with Chico and start with a question:

@CI@which is our interest ? Our interest in IC is to be useful to make more effective and committed the global civil society. Organizations committed to the WSF process want to be useful in order to make global civil society stronger in changing the world.

@MF@Why should a social actor become interested in joining this process? To receive solidarity, to meet and make alliances with other movements, to use thematic knowledge of the others, to become stronger and more connected. . Today at lunch I found partners on a project, but i am here and others not and they cannot do what i did

@CI@We the organizations committed to the process need to create a permanent living social space useful to social actors to develop their horizon and connections, with better tools and channels for political communication. Social actors are more in number than earlier but more spread in the territories. @TF@Last year we produced few solidarity calls, spread no info on local struggles, so we have been useless on this. if social actors have to use google and avaaz we are useless-

@OF@The Maghreb dynamics did the job at regional level of collecting movements and issues and they prosper, but are we able to do the same at global level?

@OF@ We need to discuss more about what we do between one event and the other, we need to become more useful for movements when they struggle every day.

@CM@if we go to an event where social movement are lively the event is good

@43 Damien EN

Importance that IC members own more solidarity economy- importance to take into account values and principles of movements. Forums. Solidarity based economy for example should allow participation of all. More human diversity should be included in the forums

@EO@ We need to be careful towards special needs, like people with disabilities, and make it possible for them to attend World Social. This room we are in today is discriminatory for handicapped people-

@EO@ Thanks to those who are documenting this meeting making it accessible through notes and video live streaming- Even in Tunis which was the best accessible place- the problem is ours- 15% of handicapped in the world

@44 Gus EN

Trying to answer Martina’s question:

how is the forum effective to movement and struggles which is not the same. I felt questioned In the IC meeting in Mexico in 2010 hearing someone saying: if this forum does not allow me to progress in my struggles. I will not attend anymore.

@MF@In history, the forum served neglected struggles giving them a space to coordinate and share information, but now this information is everywhere on internet .

 The relation between forum and struggles is not direct. Forum allowed to craft mottos and those ideas are now common.

@OF@We need to invent new proposals, re-engigneer the forum, but we know we cannot select priorities. Situation has changed need to reinvent proposals in areas that are now central to neo-liberalism. For many movements culture, "how useful is it " is understood as " is this priority for the forum " ?- Many movement need a priority affirmation in a forum and do not find it- What does it boil down to, to take a radical position?

@MF@Few years ago in France we had a struggle against building of an airport and land-expropriation. There was convergence between environmental and social dymensions but there was no need to build a network. Instead, a social forum was the needed space. Suddenly they invented the “thematical forum against imposed useless projects”- This movement grasped the idea of the forum: “What we do is a forum!” . It gave an international aspect to their struggle. It strengthened the struggle a lot. People struggling against high-speed train in italy also organized a social forum and this gave the struggle another dimension, becoming more transversal. Also a movement against dam building, moved towards the forum model

@MF@ In Rio, the forum allowed a new intelligence to be shaped in order to oppose the way the city was managed. Three step against urbanism for world cup : How can we build a visibility?- How we can find proposals and reflex ions that enrich our struggle and allow to give it a new a dimension. It is a political communication. All the work done in activities in the forum will be useful. Even very local struggles can gain an international dimension and visibility by organizing social forums, gaining arguments and political strength, converging to a more organized type of work.

@45 Leo EN

@OF@We lack structuring of thinking of convergence movements - Each has its own efficiency . We tend to project on the WSF all the problems, and do not know how to implement this and find solutions because they are too many issues to address

Between the first WSF and today, we have had the experience of the continental and local and thematic social forums. WSF started as a shop window of struggles- Then many forums happened six in Austria it became a fashion and methodology, It has become a meeting methodology.

Some themes were natural priorities depending on the territory where the forum event took place.

@OF@ What we need to avoid is that the World Social Forum becomes another regional forum plus some international movements. The WSF can be a space of convergence of convergences, the network of networks.

@46 Jason EN

@OF@ We need to develop more space for meetings and create alliances. The event held last year, Firenze 10+10, was a space to strategize, not a real social forum.

@OF@ We should think about more creative ways to involve people from other circles: we need other methodology. How to renew the way we organize the event? : we could transform WSF in “world social lunch”, or set up “world cafes” where people have a pause and are creative.

@MF@ The occupy movement shows that the old way of representation, like here in the IC, is not so valid to deal with reality. Hence we cannot simply invite some new movements and claim to represent others. @OF@We should have a “service role” and become more skilled in political facilitation. We can be “functionally at the service” of movements in a political way. We need to radically reorganize ourselves.

@47 Cheima EN

Inclusivenees of the WSF in Tunis towards disabled people was planned but could not be implemented fully for technical reasons. Handicapped were part of volunteers and included in the preparation

Visibility of the forum is declining so we need a special effort with media and with movements that no longer participate. The strength of our diversity implies to follow everything at the same time- problem of communication

@OF@Training about forum is essential : knowledge about social forum remains elitist In Africa and Arab countries, and the WSF remains elitist: people do not understand what it is and cannot contribute significantly to workshops during forums.

In Tunis 2013 we have just followed foreign activities Need to focus on national scale and to develop an influence in the world social forum level.

@OF@ Better visibility of the themes and of the forum methodology should be guaranteed in the website of the Tunis event, expecially among youth, and also on the WSF site. Now we see influence of social media on youth- review website of WSF

@48 Genevieve EN

At the beginning of WSF , we saw new emancipatory actors other than working class. it is important to remember how momvents like via campesina are very much involved in the climate justice movement as well as in the battle against the WTO. They have found alliances for that inside the WSF , where in the traditional left they were considered conservative.

the new movements represent parts of society that are in open rebellion against the system. Composition of IC needs review

@MF@An organisation like ATTAC, which is born as an anti-neoliberal movement attac has been at the birth of WSF,, because it is involved in many different instances at the local level, needs to be reminded again and again that international level is important and attac needs to remain alterglobal

While there is a temptation to instrumentalize social movements by political movements/parties/governements, charter of Porto Alegre and WSF and local rooting are guarantees of social movement autonomy. with local rooting but not recess on nationalism, and this is an essential asset. There is a multiplicity of actors working for change, and autonomy of social mvemtn no single group will save the world.

Nathalie:no synthesis

17-1 Updates from various regions: Draft transcript 10h30 – 12h00

@ 50 (X –Tunisia)

Tunisian revolution – from the protest on the economic situation to change of government. (no other notes available)

@51 (Marc) EN

Europe: Altersummit process, 3-4 meetings a year, unions and dialogue with left parties (no other notes available)

@52 (Mallory) EN

USA: policentric North America SF in June/July 2015. Philadelphia and New Orleans. Updates to come from USSF national planning committee. (no other notes available)

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@53 Saida FR

<FR> F 0:00-4:50 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41809865

Je maitrise mieux le modèle tunisien - la différence c’est quoi ?– c’est vrai que le movement social était derrière et que les revendicaitons de ces révolutions étaient purement anti mondialisation - redistribution chomage …. Qu’est ce qu’on a après ? Des régimes dans l’ultra libéralisme, on le sait ceux qui sont sur la tete du grouvement tunisien avec morsi quelle difference ? cest que - période de transition en egypte c’est l’armée qui prend la place des forces civiles et politiques et en tunisie c’est la soiciété civile qui …essaye de donner un aboutissement à la transition de manière pacifique et démocratique Tout en préservant le caractère civil de cette démarche

C’est la deuxième fois après la colonialisaiton francaies que les deux organisaitons patronales et ouvrières se mettent ensemble pour donner une issue a la crise politique UGTT et Utica … place des movements sociaux

2/ en ce moment la - parce que on ne peut pas oublier que les organisation coropaoave corporatiste - la période est politiique par excellence - quel est le role de partis politiques est ce normal que la société civile prennent la place quelles sont les perspectives quels sont les risques est ce qu’elles sont porteuses d’une vision générale mais restent prisonnières de leur  secteur et interventions, où est notre place en tant que altermondialiste potitisés de toute maniére c’est une conception politique de ce qui se passe

Ce qui se passe actuellement en tunisie – on n’a jamais vu une pression internationale essentiellement europeenne etatsunienne pour s’approprier le processus et lui donner une autre perspective que celle voulue par celel revendiqué dans la rue par ceux qui sont déscendus dans la rue

Si l’Allemagne en ce moment fait un forcing pour faire passer le modèle de démocratie chrétienne on sait ce qu’est ce choix politique et economique – tout a été négocii et guidé essentiellement avec présence extraordinaire des allemands et l’ambassadeur allemand et comme ca déclenche une nouvelle crise politique parce que la majorité de l’opposition, active : le front de salut composé par le front populaire gauche socialiste

La majorité front populaire qui était à travers syndicats et associations dans la rue depuis l’ère de Ben Ali qui se trouve en dehors, exclus de cet accord sur le nouveau premier misnistre.

@TF@Quel lobbying pouvons nous faire, nous altermondialistes internationaux, pour faire un forcing autre que celui qui est fait par les officiels dans l’europe ? - Comment ne pas tomber dans le piège que les mouvements sociaux et secteur de la société civile préparent les révolutions qui sont récupérées par un systeme tout à fait le contraire, on a un proverbe en tunisie quand quelque un fait les efforts qui profitent à quelque un d’autre - « on passe notre temps à cuisiner pour les autres ».

 Je n’aimerais pas passera a coté d’un moment historique qui nous appelle au delà de la solidarité à un effort d’analyse politique afin de donner une autre perspective et donner un sens plus cohéhent avec les principes qu’on portait

@54 Martina –

let us talk about the regional of the forum will speak Gina Bernard Mauria uddhab Hugo Rafir por Leonardo Kamal Pierre Soha Then we will pass to proposals for wsf2015

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@55 (Gina )– ES

Gina <ES>5:00-6:27http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41809865

Gina <ES> ctd. 0:00-0:37http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41809960

lo que esta diciendo ello sistematizando el tiempo nos falta a mi que gustaria intoducir una refleccion a nivel global y regional hay -problema de exclusion y perspectivas no incluidas que corresponden a por ejemplo en américa latina toda la pression ……

Estas exclusiones sistematicas que nosotros como parte de un consejo internaional con estas caracteristcas no estamos considerando lo suficiencte el racismo generado …. son dimensiones …..

@56 Bernard FR

<FR> 0:43-2:58http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41809960

Fórum balkanique je vais en dire un mot - deux reunions de fsb en tant que tel ont eu lieu, préparées à l’échelle des pays de l’ancienne yougoslavie et qui s’etent avec grece bulgarie roumanie hongrie c’est un processus qui après ces deux réunions se cherche un peu – qui a très peu de présence au conseil ou au fórum a tunis ( 3 personnes) –

@OF@ il y a quelque personnes qui vont expliquer le fsm et ça reste assez regional - reunion à Zagreb l’année prochaine, il faut qu’on prenne en compte ce forum

Martina we go down to 2mn each intervention

@57 Mauri FR

< FR Leonardo interpreter> 3:10-6:53 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41809960

Je m’appelle Mauri – porto alegre a une relation particulière avec le fsm – le fsm amène avec lui porto alege où il va – nous vivons cela aussi de maniere negative - car on fait le fsm ou rien alors en 2010 en faisant la commérmation des dix ans du forum on a commencé à faire le forum thématique dans les années paires où il y n’a pas de forum mondial 2010 12 et maintenant 2014 – crise capitaliste démocratie justice sociale et environnementale–notre objecitf c’est de contribuer au processus internacional discussion des agendas qui nous lient et de la méthologique, et on travaille pour unifier les organisations brésiliennes qui participent au conseil international et pour ça on vous attends tous a porto alegre

 

@58 uddhab EN

Nepal? M 6:26-8:44http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41809960

I will talk from Nepal and have good news form south Asia We try to revive social forum in South Asia. For example, Gustave related some social forum going on in India. There’s not very much going on. I think there were 10 meetings going on from Chennai to Delhi (?), and two proposals for WSF 2015. Before that, in Kathmandu on November 8 we decided to hold South Asia Social Forum. That will be in Lucknow,Uttar Pradesh from March 1-5. So in Nepal we are trying to revive, we held a couple of meetings before I came here. I think South Asia becomes very important, politically, as well. If you follow India’s process, ...

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@59 Hugo EN

<EN> M 0:00 – 1:10http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810139

…I wanted to bring the old movements and the new movements together, and to have political discussions and street actions at the same time.

@CM@ I think in May 2014 we will have a series of political actions. The problem is to bring together the new movements; the organisational structure is delivered by the old ones. It is ATTAC, it is the left party, and they are organizing and the rest is coming voluntarily to the streets.

@60 Omar AR EN

<AR> Rafiq? 1:26- 2:44 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810139

(translation AWC) Summarizing the work of yesterday we have to know what should be done during the next two years. In fact, on the level of restructuring the Forum meaning the organizational structure of the Forum and on the level of regional forums or thematic forums that discuss specific topics, where will the general forum will be held during the next year or the year after it.

 

But today I feel that there is a continuation of yesterday's discussion.There is a repetition as if we are dealing with a factual report in terms of what happens in every region and that’s what we heard yesterday and it is repeated today.So in order to take advantage of the time, I think that the Chair of the session yesterday and today are required, if I may say so, to summarize more systematially over the course of the debate, in order to start the decision-making and the action plan. Thank you.

Martina

So, if people think this topic is extinguished, they should not list themselves to speak. When we finish the list of discussion we go to wsf2015 proposals

@61 Leonardo EN

<EN> M 3:10-4:19 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810139

 I just wanted to mention the Social Forum for Free Palestine. At the end of 2012, in support for the Palestinian cause, as an example of a successful, supported event. The region has historically supported two causes – the Cubans and the Palestinians. We find it was a great success with the presence of a former minister of Mandela who insisted on naming what’s happening in Palestine apartheid . And there’s also support for Colombia.

@62 4mn19 kamal -FR

Kamal <FR> 4:40-8:38 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810139

@CI@ En fait depuis hier j’essaie de voir dans les compte rendus jusqu’à quel point le conseil international a véritablement integré les nouveaux paradigmes qu’il y a dans la region et jusqu'à présent je ne me retrouve pas – peut etre que hier j’ai été trop rapide dans la brève présentation que j’ai faite ( intervention @1) – j’ai insisté sur le fait qu’il s’agit d’introduire dans nos analyses la question des interventions étrangères dans la region –l’intervention des pays du Golfe quels sont les enjeux ? - (la Syrie on ne comprend plus rien au niveau des blocs qui se mettent en place). On est sur les shémas classiques, peut être des années 70 – où on intégre pas les elements sur le terrain auquel les gens sont confrontés les sectes ta’ifia , le sectarisme il s’agité de fractions armées directement impliquées dans les enjeux de pouvoir et je ne vois pas mention de problèmes qui persistent comme l’esclavage en Mauritanie. Il s’agit d’introduire dans nos analyses cette region avec sa complexité

Je n’ai peut etre pas assez insisité viens de faire le relevé des activités 2014 2015 –hier j’ai retenu ce que nous allons faire en tant que conseil du maghreb mashrek j’ai plus de 21 activités que je n’ai pas citées, y compris celle qui ont été annoncées de manière rapide comme

@MF@la question des quartiers populaires qui souhaite développer son processus non seulement au niveau d’une ville comme casablanca et aussi avec nos amis tunis et le developper sur les quartiers périphériques - ce n’est pas aujourd’hui que Paris a eu ses grands problèmes au niveau de la périphérie -certainement la question des favellas au Brésil serait une articulation importante –pas seulement les femmes l’emigration la corruption le libre échangange le terrorisme les diplomés chômeurs, je peux donner ces éléments par écrit – comment articuler entre les thèmes qui sont le souci d’un territoire et d’une communauté particulière…..

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@63 Pierre FR

<FR> 0:00-2:09http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810275

Le Cheminement de l’idée du forum social mondial se produit dans des endroits tres divers et avec des problématiques très diverses comme vient de le rappeler kamal

@CI@Le rôle du conseil international c’est d’informer, faire en sorte qu’il y ait un échange d’expérience entre ces dynamiques. Il s’agit de relier ces dynamiqiue entre elles, et pas par un processus vertical botom up et ensuite top down

Arriver à faire un maillage entre ces processus, pour que les articulations naissent des activités et préoccupations elles meme des acteurs. La dessus il y a beaucoup de choses possibles: ce qui a été dit sur le forum des quartiers populaires de Casablanca avec l’idée du local, qui s’articule vers tunisie et brésil, est un exemple où on sort du régional pour aller vers l’international

@CI@Depuis la fin 2011, un groupe contributif crée durant le conseil international de Dhaka où se trouve jason gus francine moi même recueille les informations connues sur des processus forum et donc .vous etes bienvenus à nous contacter « fsmwsf.calendar at gmail.com » pour qu’on actualise le calendrier des évènements ce qui donne la géographie du procesus forum en temps réel et permet en avance dès qu’un processus s’annonce à dautres processus de le contacter et de préparer des itneractions soit par des delegations de personnes ou soit par des contacts a distance qui vont permettre les acticualtion dont on parle

Ce n’est pas quelque chose qu’on décrète top down

@64 Souha <FR>

2:10-3:03 – http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810275

Kamal a bien resumé la chose -dans les pas du printemps arabe enjeu très important modele societal se remet en question - droit en train de regresser plus spécifiquemet ceux des femmes - très important ajourd’hui de soutenir l’initiative de forum social séminaire évènement liés au forum social qui vont se dérouler dans la region

@65 Leo EN

3:11-4:12 I http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810275

 I Am very quickly reporting on two networks that are not present. They asked me to inform. On the one hand, it is the Central and Eastern European region. It has made a social forum in June, focussing on the problematics of right-wing extremism and populism, with the participation of about 15 countries of Eastern Europe, including Russia. BTW they asked me, on a 3-year-old application, to integrate the IC. Before, there was …

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@66 sergio ES

< ES> M 0:00-1:46 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810488

Para fortalecer el derecho a la libertad de associacion .. tiene un impacto apoyar moviementos de sociedad civil en proceso e impacto a institucion européas para que cambien sus politicas nefastas - Dos dinamicas sobre derecho de trabajadores migrantes en la region surgieron en tunis y tiene promotores CGIL UGTT participant sindicato progresistas e independientes de la region tanto norte como sur es un dinamica que cruza con lo que ha dicho antes rafaella , quiere ser instrumento par lo que said y kamal - apoyo a las dinamicas locales y si se puerde el tren de la democracia en la región , perdemos todos

@67 Chico FR

<FR> 1:46 – 4:00 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810488

il y a des idées qui traversent la réunion, qui ouvrent des pistes sur le travail du ci, ou le travail que le ci doit stimuler.

@CM@ Il y a évidemment des luttes locales qui n’aboutiront pas si elles ne deviennent pas mondiales c’est normal - kamal a parlé des interventions étrangères - les luttes contre les mines entre nous au brésil et le canda - paradis fiscaux pour lutter contre capitalisme financier moi meme engagé dans la lutte contre - energie nucléaire impossible si ce n’est pas une lutte mondiale.

Il y a des liens à faire entre tout ça -idée qui traverse nos conversation ici c’est que

@CI@ le CI peut stimuler la création de multiples groupes de travail qui identifient ces themes quels sont les thèmes qui sont locaux et mondiaux nécessairement , et ces gropes et qu’ils puissent stimuler les liens entre tout ceuxi qui doivent se lier autour de ces themes , de façon à ce qu’ils se préparent à être ensemble dans le prochain fsm - c’est une dynamique de participation complètement diférente de celle de dire « venez venez tous « mais plutot des groupes qui vont identifier ceux qui doivent venir pour travailler ensemble un theme qui est nécesairement mondial et qui viennent travailler

C’est un vieux rêve du forum depuis le début c’est de créer la fameuse citoyenneté planétaire c’est par là qu’on arrivera à ces résutlats

ic-extension 19:55  17 December at 12h09


@68 Feroz EN

 4:00-6:10 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810488

 Most of you are aware of the massive onslaught on social and climate justice movements in Canada, especially increasing under the Harper government. Attack on democratic institutions. This has given rise to a very historical event which is being organised for the first time; the indigenous population, the [Kmick?] people and the rest of Canada have all clubbed together saying, ‘Enough is enough!’

They are organising the very first Peoples Social Forum in August 2014. This has been a very long process; for two years consultations have been going on. Finally we have commission functions in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Halifax, and their caucuses have been set up. There is a Quebec caucus, indigenous population caucus, other peoples caucus, the women’s caucus is in the making. This is very energy consuming, but people are dedicated. They have taken up the challenge.

The sequence of 4-days’ events is not the end, but only the beginning for the movement of climate justice against the tar-sands exploitation, against extractivism, against fracking which is being promoted by the Canadian government and the Quebec government. It’s an ongoing process, and I am very happy to see the results so far. We really need support, not only from North America and the US Social Forum, but the world over. For more details, please read the flier I have circulated a couple of days ago. Thank you.

@69 X AR EN

 <AR> M 6:10 – 8:27 Speaker 1, from Morocco AR http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810488

(translation AWC) I couldn’t attend yesterday due to my presence in Brazil to attend a forum on human rights.The issue I would like to discuss and recommend it to be an important issue for the forum of 2015 is Global Trade Union, as significant decline in global trade union is well noticed. It is also worth noticing that trade unions in many countries don’t exceed 2%. @TF@Therefore I believe that there should be some coordination with the International Federation of Trade Unions to organize a meeting to find out the causes of this decline which affects the social status of workers globally.

We also notice short comes in communication and workers solidarity on the global level. For example, Morocco suffers from many crises and setbacks regarding trade union rights. Hence, I think it is very important issue to be addressed and there should be ample space for it to be discussed.

@70 shatha-AR EN iraq

 <AR> F 8:36- 9:50http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810488
Thanks to my colleague and comrade, Kamal for bringing up the issue of “Importance and development of dynamics in our countries”. But I want to emphasize on a very important issue and that is freedom suppression and not opening the space for civil society activists in our countries. This is even more important in countries which have witnessed drastic changes and those of the Arab Spring

@TF@. We suffer a lot from freedom suppression, where freedom of expression has been lost and this is an issue which I think must be strongly addressed in the forum. It should be discussed with issues related to the media; “the role and enhancement of the media with respect to activist human rights”. I speak about Iraq where we have lost prominent activists in demonstrations and protest... and I think this requires a stand from the forum... thank you very much.

@71 Martina -EN

 (waiting for interpreters) @TF@The repression of activists is a huge problem in many parts of the world, particularly in Maghreb. I particularly wanted to mention this because no-one is listed to speak about it. There is an attempt in Maghreb. I think there have been discussions, yesterday in particular Yuseff, working on it to organize Maghreb Social Forum, in which the issue of repression of activists will be the key issue.

@72 Cecilia ES

<ES>11mn55 11:50-16:05 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810488

Queria planeter luego de haber escuchado ayer y hoy toda esta discussion, y me parece que lo que estamos planteando todas, es que

@OF@necesitamos en el foro y por lo tanto también en el ci una forma, un mecanimso que nos ayude a vincular procesos regionales nationales y tematicos, con los procesos internacionales del foro - al menos por lo que escucho estoy realmente convencida que eso es un nudo que de alugna forma tenemos que desatar de forma creativa

 una propuesta de chico, puede haber otras – quizá una sugerencia un grupo de trabajo podria conformarse para intentar refleccionar sobre formas practicas de cómo las experiencias regionales y tematicas estan confluyendo o no hacia el international , comite el inernacional puede respaldar cotnribuir – no tenemos un mecanismo ahora

Un ejemplo es el foro social educacion que ve a ser en canos (cerca de porto alegre) tiene mucho trabajo qui tiene un acumulado – que tiene que confluir igual que otros

@OF@Un cosa mas - grupo de trabajo que tiene que ver con la expansión del foro, y la necesidad de expandir el foro y tal vez de las dos dimensiones que estamos mezclando de alguna forma

Hemos hablado de inclusion y de jovenes que están liderando nuevos movimientos, antes teniamos la comision de expansion, hoy podria ser otro grupo de trabajo que piense en que formula esto puede concretarse

Question de orden, lo que tenemos en la agenda par manana quizá se podria reformular , estamos planteando volver a poner en commun el calendario 2014 - estamos conversando un dia y medio , hay que hacer algo mas practico - poner en la web un calendario donde todos podemos mirar lo que se va a hacer - y que nos permite ver como hacer confluencia -

@73 Rita ES

<ES> 16:20 – 17:00 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810488

Muy rapidemente - informar que vamos en porto alegre hacer un seminario de proceso de forum mundial de medias libres para debate de carta sobre derechos de communicacion (gustaria ver en nuestra agenda

Rita: we are happy to say there will be a seminar on free media forum debate on charter of communication in porto alegre

@74 Zied AR EN

17:00 – 18:44 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41810488

(AWC) After the World Social Forum - Tunisia, youth activists in Mashreq–Maghreb region have discussed ways to support youth movements in the region in the framework of building partnerships and youth support on the global level. Hence, we proposed to organize a youth forum in 2014 by the end of August or the beginning of September, where a committee was formed in the Mashreq-Maghreb region for primary preparations and to support the youth local committee in Tunisia.

@TCI@ Once your committee approves the adoption of our proposal, an international youth committee will be formed. You can participate in this committee by filling in the application handed out and which we will also send via E-mail. Thank you.

@75 Martina –

 We take a break. When we return, we address WSF2015.

17-2 Notes on Proposals for WSF 2015 (12h00 – 13h30)

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76A Jason EN

0:00- 2:10 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41811742

We are now going to pass to the second part, which is the presentation of proposals for 2015.

For we know thee are three proposal – an hour to present and short diussion we will contienu tomorrow we do not need to finish now and if will be useful for the second part today about reshaping the ic …..

 Since we are running a bit late, we don’t have time for the methodological discussion about shaping IC. The best thing we can do now

We go straight into the presentations and have a half hour to see what working groups are most useful now, and for future work of IC.

We need to define wihhc are the issues to be discussed in the working groups – and that will take about a half hour.

Over to Canada – Quebec for their presentation (15-20 mins max)

76 -Quebec 2015 presentation EN

Polycentric social forum in Quebec (Canada) in August 2015, connected to other WSF s in Tunisia and India, happening along two years, connected by a virtual permanent convergence assembly

30 people heavily involved - 300 first circle. Now Raphael in French-we have built the process willing to answer two questions-how new movmeent and WSF interbreed-how local dynamics and global can be linked

The arab spring stimulated the indignants in summer and occupy in autumn-“maple spring”-was clearly linked-320000 students on strike changed the government, and have a more interesting goveenment for Tunisia-“we are children of WSF” -articulation local - global - north south dimension-local struggles that can be connected in a convergence space

We need souther mobilization to strenghten the north change the governement feedback to thesouthe-60% of mining is canadia-words exgtractivist countries-tar sands in Alberta-first nation that feed the people forum idle no more-open a space to reconnect ith the world

Militarirization aligned on Bush policy, when Bush is not here anymore-we write a book on extractivism and get sued for 12 millions dollars -women issue: starting world march of women, now in recess

Governement policy-world forum with various local rooting one in quebec-augsut 2015 -elections in October

We support Tunisia and India proposal-dynamics through a process-forum two years-we have experience of new movements on the web-collaboratie website -convergence permanent assembly-organziers of spaces and organizers of activities

now louis philippe: phase - let people forum social forum process-not a competitive proposal-75 organization supporting us ....and growing-support of federal and quebec and montreal level-support of on dean of one big 4 university-second phase starting after this meeting: reinforce links - establish distance worskshop with organizers of other forums accessibility - international solidarity fund

Visa challenge phase 3 inclusion of organization and person - autum 2014 after people forum-phase 6 evaluations and follow up “it looks impossible until it is done” (Mandela)

76B Carminda ES

PT> F 2:10-4:30 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41811742

Yo quiero habla en espanol naci en peru - Nosotros venimos de la incicait aque propones foro social mindai con multiple focus – dinamica de complementaridad - que las dinamicass que llevan hacia el foro desde multiples focus se complmentan - somos un colectivo de sonadores de Corazon, somoe aqui tres y treinta todo el proceso ha sido proceso abierto

Nuestro trabajo comenzo hace varios anos .. Se propuso la de tunis - escuchamos con mucho entusiasmo que hemos trabajado sietes meses 30 reuniones 75 organismos que nos apoyan

76C Raphael FR

<FR> M 4-30 – 13:03 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41811742

On a une présentation mais en 15 minutes ce n’est pas possible de la présenter – On est content de participer. D epuis hier, on a travaillé sur deux questions : - comment on travaille ce lien entrefsm et nouveaux movement - comment le forum dynamise le procesus de transformation sociale pour et par ceux qui le font- et comment on peut lier le global et local dans nos luttes - reconnecter local et globale tenir compte - on vous fait des propooitions méthodologiques concretes

Nouvaux mouvements depuis 2011 – si on revient à l’origine du forum socal mondial qui est né d’un cycle de lutte ouvert dans les années 90 zapatiste omc seattle marche mondiale des femmes - sommet alca a - le forum social est arrivé pour dire on n’est plus dans l’anti, va arriver un espace pour faire des propositions - les luttes sont la comment peut on les intégrer

La tunisie a inspiré si eux se confrontent au pouvoir dictatorial nous on peut se confronter au pouvoir des banques -

Printemps erable printemps 2012 - ce lien n’est pas vain, il était evident et clair : nous 75% des étudiants 400 000 étaient en grève - « si eux en tunisie, ils l’ont fait chez eux pourquoi on le ferait pas chez nous ce jeu d’aller et retour qu’on a vu dans les mobilisations - -comment utiliser le forum comme espace poour reconnecter ces luttes et travailler ensemble sur la planète

« On est des enfants du forum social mondail » – on veut voir comment le forum peut se nourrir ancien movement qui portent le forum depus 15 ans

Articulation local – globla a Quebec on parle du premier forum qui aurai lieu au Nord ( on veut briser cette dimnison nord sud - chico – kamal en ont parlé - … si on connecte ces gens la dans un espace de convergence - le forum est une solution por nous

Combat très précis au Canada - que le nord soit aidé par le sud Sable bitumeux de l’alberta drame ecoolique majeur On s’est retiré de kyoto

Gouvenement néo convervateurs au nord

60% des entreprises minieres sont canadiennes extractivisme vient du Canada

Si on n’est pas édié de l’exteireur on n ariva pas a gir de l’interririe

 76D carminda ES

<ES> F 0:00- 1:20 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41812067

Movimiento occupy tienen conocimento muy concreto –han creado plataformas como interoccupy que sirven para informar y tambien para colaborar – todo el tiempo –nuestra 3ra propuesta metodolgica es assemble de convergenceia permanente que salió de tunez tener un espacio permanente - de la cual la gente pueda acercarse organizadores y participantes espacio donde pueda meter su trabajo y compartir explicar a los demás alargo plazo, y no solo en los eventos

76E-Louis philippe FR

 <FR> M 1:20-7:45 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41812067

Quebec presentation, ctd
je me doutais que mes college me laisseraient pas de temps pour présenter l’opérationnel – je ne rentre pas dans les détails comme prévu, insister que tout ca s’ancre dans une proposition concrète des actions sont liée a notre proposition

On a décidé de découper le projet en phases –pour deux raisons : pour la flexibilité d’inclure toutes les organisations qui désirent participer au processus et individus, et aussi pour respecter autres processus en cours , notamment le forum social des peuples et de laisser ce processus prendre son envol - - je passe rapidement sur les phases - document de candidature - 75 organisations et ce n’est que le début et ca va augmenter de manière significative - federal et provincial et appui de la ville de montréal et appui du recteur d’une des 4 grandes université de montréal - la phase 2 c’est le processs de planification - on a des bonnes idées il faut creuser d’avantage – renforcer dialogues et liens - on a l’intention d’organiser des ateliers à distance pour établir des liens aveec les comités organisateurs de ces processus - accessibilité importante -4 points cout de participation bas – création d’un fonds de solidarité international – campagne a mener pour garnir ce fonds de solidarité - question des visas – procédure avec le gouvernement - il y a un défi la - intégration du processus appareil d’organisation automne 2014 – operationalisation concrete - o vous attend avec grand plaisir derniere phase transfert de connaissance bilan ….

76F - Carminda ES

 <ES> F 7:45- 8:18 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41812067

Mandela es una persona que nos ha inspirado ( “todo esto parece impossible hasta que lo hagamos”

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77 -Kamal EN Tunis 2015

Now again i have the pleasure to announce officialy and more strongly than yesterday the candidacy of tunisie. We are not in a competition-we all live the process towards tunis 2013 and we expect that a second forum would be a consolidation of the assets of 2013,-being undertood that challenges in front of us - require a strong necesity of inclusion of themes and also of movements-first forum was implemented in a short period and we have not had the time to include themes and actors-Actors that continue to develop – effervescence-we are in politically favourable context, because we are taking challenges-when Chouckri belaid assassination we had doubts about safety issues- and we choose to say “that is why we need to go there and assert our values”-we are convinceed that the announcement of tunis WSF2015 will, amidst current confusion, bring a strong support to the region

Challenges in libya with 22millions of arms for 6 million people-we are in the “arch of turmoils” confronted to hegemonical powers-We have conditions to face the challenge-you have seen capacity of this young society to collect support from state, we do not have a strong state in front othey know the need a strong civilian movement-not to cooptate it -try to ally to this civilian movement that may be strong enough as compensate the fragmentation of political field

We had political adhesion of the university to our project not just premises-this is by change that tunsian friends entrust me with making the announcement - This si to show that the Maghreb Mashrek process stands for the proposal-hoping our African friends will join us. African contribution is needed

Tunisia to build stronger solidarity with grassroots movements of the Arab revolts, including countries like Lybia, newcomers in the WSF, and to resist international hegemonies.

 77A Kamal.FR Tunis 2015

Kamal <FR> 9:00-9:44 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41812067

Il m’échoit encore le plaisir d’annoncer de maniere officielle et un peu plus tranch ée et ferme que hier la candidature de la tunisie pour le rprochain fsm – nous ne sommes pas dans une compétition quelconque

Kamal <FR> M 0:00-2:25 Maghreb/Mashrak presentations (ctd)

La préocuppation c’est que ces mouvements sociaux n’arrivent pas mener ces processus jusqu’au bout avec des issues progressistes et anti neo liberales, comment faire jouer au ci un rôle capable de ‘lamener a peser sur le cours des choses actuellement dans la région nous - beaucoup de défis et de menaces qui pèsent- sur la transition démocratique, sur la viabiltié de chercher un modèle alternatif de dévelopement et quei découle sur l’ingérence étrangere, terrorisme et assassinat politiqe –

On est interpelé dans la problématique de l’articulation entre local et global –car jusqu’a présent le fsm a donné l’interet et la priorité à l’élargissement à la présence dans le monde, a aidé à l’émergence de dynamique sociales- il est temps de penser à donner plus d’efficacité à l’action du fsm , en soutenant les dynamqiues locales déclenchée pour que l’espoir qu’il a donné dans le monde arabe ne soit pas décu - et c’est une occasion pour que le fsm soit encore une fois en Tunisie avec un solidarité Maghreb Mashrek et avec appui mondial – pour que ces événements ne soient pas encore une déception pour les peuples qui ont fait l’évement et n’arriveraient pas a le conduire jusqu'àu bout

 

77A Kamal.ES Tunis 2015

- siendo entendido que los desafíos frente a nosotros  requieren una fuerte necesidad de  inclusión de temas y también  de movimientos – El primero foro se llevó a cabo en un corto período de tiempo y no hemos tenido el tiempo para incluir temas y actores , actores que continúan desarrollandose – hay una efervercencia , estamos en un contexto político favorable , porque estamos tomando desafíos : cuando Chouckri Belaid fue asesinado, teníamos dudas sobre asuntos de seguridad, y optamos por decir " es por eso que tenemos que ir allí y hacer valer nuestros valores ", Estamos convencidos que el anuncio de Túnez FSM2015 traera , en medio de la confusión actual , un fuerte respaldo a la zona

Desafíos en Libia con 22 millones de armas para 6 millones de personas – nos encontramos en el " arco de turbulencias " Frente a poderes hegemónicos - Tenemos como  enfrentar  este reto -ustedes han visto la capacidad de esta joven sociedad para recoger el apoyo del estado, no tenemos un estado fuerte delante nosotros, y saben que necesitarán un fuerte movimiento civil , no para tratar de cooptarle –tratar de asociarse a este movimiento civil que puede ser lo suficientemente fuerte para compensar la fragmentación del campo político

Tuvimos la adesion política de la universidad a nuestro proyecto no sólo nso dio el lugar - esto no es por casualidad que los amigos tunesinos me confían  hacer el anuncio – esto es para demostrar que el proceso Magreb Mashreq esta apoyando la propuesta – Esperamos que nuestros amigos africanos se unan a nosotros . Se necesita aporte africano

Túnez va a  construir una mayor solidaridad con los movimientos de base de las revueltas árabes , incluyendo países como Libia , los recién llegados en el FSM , para resistir las hegemonías internacionales.

La préocupacion es que estos movimientos sociales no logran a conducir estos procesos al final con salidas progresistas y anti neoliberal , como hacer jugar al CI un  rol que pueda llevarlo a tener influencia  en el curso de los acontecimientos en la actualidad de la región  - una gran cantidad de desafíos y amenazas , sobre la transición democrática , sobre la  viabilidad de buscar un modelo alternativo de Desarrollo y resultado de la injerencia extranjera , el terrorismo y el asesinato politico -

Nos interpela el problema de la relación entre lo local y global - ya que hasta ahora el FSM dio interés y prioridad a la ampliación,  a la presencia en el mundo , a ayudar al surgimiento de la dinámica social - es el momento de pensar en dar más eficacia a  la acción del FSM , apoyando dynamicas locales desencadenadas para que esta esperanza , que ha dado en el mundo árabe no este decepcionada - y esto es una oportunidad para que el FSM este una vez más en Túnez , en la solidaridad con Magreb y Mashreq y el respaldo global – para que estos acontecimientos no sean una decepción para los pueblos  que hicieron el acontecimiento y no tendrian el impulso para llevarlo hasta el final

78 -Uddhab WSF 2015

Now udhab for south east asia-not competition-democracy concern bouthan myanmar political change-BJP in India hindu fundamentalist ideas-Bangladesh two ladies ...to create more space for alternatives - political movements through social movement-we are part of himalayan people confronted to climate change-Reactivate sasf process - 10 meetings-digitally friendly things can help democratize this process-Calcultta consultation meeting ..no one from india come to Casablanca-Meena was active Vijay cancelled last moment toobusy to come- finally what we decided, i circulated in ic list debate was going on inndia

South Asian proposal to hold it in India to strengthen the vulnerable democratic process, $$ to fight religious fundamentalism, and provide creative space for social movements, in a land where people are very aware about problems related to climate change. More time is needed to finalize and confirm this proposal, till 5th of March 2014

South asia social forum march 1 to 5 will be crucial to decide-we request to postpone decision to march 5th-some comrades were having anxieties or interrogations-if india is ready to organize WSF Nepal will support-let us have time till march 5th so we make a concrete proposal

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79 Text by amit read by pierre ( through skype)

It’s not a question. It’s a comment on the Indian statement. [Pierre reads]

 [14:03:48] amit: Pierre i have typed the text to be read in your skype box..

Dear I C members,

I am sorry to have not been able to be physically present at the meeting but have been following most of the proceedings virtually.

As a member of the IC and as someone who has been involved in the WSF process in India and South Asia, I would like to place some observations.

As our comrade from Nepal has correctly pointed out, there have been some efforts to revive the process in South Asia. However, as yet, the process is still very weak and does not include most of the movements and organisations that have been earlier involved in the WSF process.

Even the proposal to hold a South Asia Forum in March in India is yet to be endorsed by a wide range of movements in India. More importantly, there has been very little endorsement of this proposal by movements from different countries in South Asia.

In such a situation it is premature to consider India as a possible candidate for the WSF meeting in 2015. Any hasty decision would harm, and even irretrivably damage all possibilities of reviving the process in India.

We are yet to revive an inclusive WSF process in India or in the region. While the efforts will continue, my organisation would not support, in any form, a promise regarding the possibility of organising the WSF in India in 2015.

Amit

Peoples Health Movement & WSF India

 [14:08:04]Chris: I confirm that Pierre read Amit' statement to the IC meeting I could not gauge the meeting's response but I observed ... 1/ Pierre needed to re-read at the beginning, a little slower, for the benefit of translation 2/ I think I detected, at the very beginning, some doubts expressed by very few members that Amit's statement was available and legitimate. I did not see these doubts recur later, during the reading

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80 -questions to all EN

80A Francisco to Quebec: have you had contacts with indian and tunisia about polycentrism ?

Didn't we decide to quit polycentrism? That means having all forums at the same time and it failed

What relation does the Quebec group have with the US Social Forum? And with the Tunisian colleagues? And with the People social Forum, taking place in Canada?

80B Chico to Quebec 1/ do they think the path they make so far could be replicated in tunisia ? 2/ could you postpione 1 year untill we wait for india 2016 ?

Can the polycentric forum happen in two years (Tunisia 2015, Quebec 2016), giving time to Asia to prepare one in 2017?

[14:10:16] amit: India at this stage can make no commitment that will be ready by 2016 -

80C Mimoun to Quebec : i read the document and followed up to which point “people social forum” is involved ? Visa issue is restrictive in canada, we must not have a 90% north american forum

How can the visa issue be handled in Canada?

80D Leo to Quebec : Is idea of polycentrism is indispensable in your concept or would you accept to be alone in 2015 ?

80E Leo to Tunisia: would you accept to be one among polycentrical ?

Would Tunisians and Asians accept to be part of a polycentric forum?

80F Hugo to Quebec:could you explain who you are ? My friends on union in Quebec are critical of your proposal

We need info on composition of Quebec group and eventual opposition to this proposal in Quebec.

80G Taofik question to Nepal : call on IC ...let me elaborate my question my own way : WSF has been the outcome of a work in the region-in asia 2004, then there was only a forum in bangladesh in 2011 so not much in asia-i wonder about the posibility of WSF now knowing the specificies of Asia:can you say why asia has not had strong molilaiton and events since 2004 ?

Can we have a WSF in Asia, given the specificities of different Asian components, and the lack of significant mobilization in the area within the WSF process since 2004 2006?

amit: Pakistan (Karachi) had a polycentric event in 2006

we have to go out with methodological tools to know how we can act on the group-create tools of link betwen various forums Quebec Nepal Maghreb-technology and participation tools-being together problemacics-follow up is not same level in various region-problems in yemen women rights stomped - help young people to go out with clearer ideas

other Questions

Wasn't the decision taken already, to hold the next forum in Maghreb?

What methdology would the polycentric forum offer to connect the three forums?

80A Francisco <FR> 4:00-5:30

Quelques questions sur les québéois dans l’idée de forum polucentrique est ce que vous avezs parlé avec les collègues tunisiens et de l’inde pour qu’ils soient integrés dans un forum polycentrique ? et comment vous pris les expreince qu’on a déjà eu en 2006 que ça a un peu échoué l’idée de forum polucentrique surtout si ça veut dire que c’est en meme temps

80B Chico <FR> 5:40-6:20

Deux -le schema d’inter-relation avant le forum pourrait etre ausis pour la preparation du forum de tunis

Avez-vous envisagé la possibilité de « faire polycentrique en deux ans » repousser le vôtre d’un an, et donner la possiblité à l’Asie de se préparer

80C Ouatara- EN–

Spare the hesitation as we had for Africa-in tunis we converge around a forum in the same region-i support capitalization of gus and answer the call of kamal "sheep are together but have not the same selling price"-support youth and women

80C - Ouatara- FR

Deux ou trois rappels

1/ Je demande au conseil international de nous éviter le cycle infernal des remises en cause de décisions comme on a vécu a Dakar – partis de Berlin ..

 ic-extension 00:52 17 December at 2h00

2/ que nous soyions logiques par rapport à nos decisions

3/ que nous evitions la deperdition en terme de décision prise d’un conseil à un autre - j’appuie la capitalisation qu’a proposée gus - et avec ma casquette de coordinateur du forum ouest africain je réponds à l’appel de kamal à la solidarité sub sahraienne -chez nous il y a adage qu dit « les moutons vont ensemble et et n’ont pas le meme prix a la vente »

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81A - Answers from Quebec EN

Our proposal is not “against”, it is “for” -polycentric or unicentrtic-we have attempts to get in contact with Tunisian and indians - we had no answers-We have built from 2006 , our perspective is that “more forums events yield more process”-2006 polucentric experience there has not been enough dialogue between the three forums Bamako Caracas Karachi-We think the various forums should be spaced out-follow up phase to document in a space of convergence available for next forums-Remote communication between actors in each forum, so people accumulate and cpatialgies during and in between forums

Polycentric – we tried from the beginning to get in touch with other proposals, dialogue is open with Tunisians expecially. The more fora we have, the more powerful the process is. The problem in 2006 was not enough dialogue between the fora, so we think fora should not take place at the same time. We need to leave some months between fora and have a permanent space for convergence and dialogue.

Relation with” people social forum”-all people involed in 2015 process are involved in people forum-just logistical divide as major argument is ressource allocation : Our asnwer is that there are two processes in dialogue-Seeing our progress and if IC give some opening - we agreed not to look for funds untill people forum is funded –

The proposing group is part of the People Social Forum process, there is no political divergence. There was concern about holding two events in the same year in Canada but now People's Forum is in August 2014, WSF would be in August 2015. Dialogue is ongoing on this, we will not compete for funding with the People's Forum.

We realize that WSF is a strong mobilization tool-we agreed that we work together on mobilization from February and ic approval would give momentum

Visa issue if we do not organize by fear of this govenemt, they won the battle: 80% of participants local and real foreigners 10% we want to work on the visa issues one year in advance -we want to have many visa request 4000 to make a political campaign and put this in the table during plotical campaign

The battle for visa should be fought, we cannot quit now.

Carminda: relation with ussf we have a similar view and support base struggles, we have tried to contact but ussf is in a reflection stage, am happy that they have an outcome

The US Forum is going through a self-reflection process but there is agreement about the proposal for 2015.

Who are we? ..we are new faces raphael coordinated social forum Quebec 2007 louis Philippe coordinated FSQ2009 we had informal meeting with unions who told that they are interested-we do not want to organize events we want to change tour societies

We are new faces, very comitted in organizing past Quebec social forums and the Occupy movements. We all work towards change.

We look forward to international collaboration civil society need to learn to cooperate-we have learned from you-we try to apply ideas-postpone 2016 might be discussed in our movements we know how to occupy space on internet that allow to create rooms for meeting - when we speak of permanent convergence assembly, it would be created by people themselves ( experience of via 22 every month) ... not easy to set up , same as this meeting by the way

We believe in collaborative dynamics, we are open to have one forum each year. The methodology to connect space is offered by virtual tools like Mumble (virtual conference spaces, people can choose to join one or the other by distance, through a computer). It's not easy but ,nor is the organizing of this meeting in casablanca, and we need a collective learning process among different civil societies.

 [14:34:38]Chris (participating through internet) : In Moscow in June, civil society needed space. They fought for space, and they still fight for space. Sometimes we take for granted the space we have. In this neo-liberal time, the space can disappear in the blinking of an eye

81B - Quebec answers.FR ES

Le fait est que Le gouvernement du Canada a une poltiiqe restrictive vis-à-vis de l’immigation - si cette peur du gouvermenet fait qu’on n’ose pas organsier un évèeetn parce qu’on pesne que les gens ne viendront pas - ils ont gagné avant qu’on livre la bataille c’est notre point de vue

Ce qu’on compte faire chiffres quoi émanent de chaque forum 0%locaux 10% etranger qui viennent de plus loin sur cette portionla de personne on veut travailler un an a ‘avance tavailler avec des organisateion qui veuelnt faire venir du ponde pour faire un suivi collectif de la demande de visa -

 ic-extension 07:04 17 December at 2h27(13h30)

<PT> F 0:00-6:10

81B – Carminda ES

Apoyar en las luchas de las bases hemos tratado de entrar en contact - procesos organic - acuerdo para 2015 - queremos mas contacto con – luego quienes somos - somos caras nuevas - somos gente que ha estado muy implicado – Raphael coordinateur 2007 louis philippe en 2009 , yo en occupy no soy de una o otra - caminemos a donde queremos - la semana pasada - los sindicatos nos invitaron a una réunion amical – y si el ci decide que podemos aportar algo - un poco preocupdaosde la dspoicion ifisio de recursos - cr no es organza evento sino transforamar nuestras sociedad

Céntrico – o policientrc a Estamos en dinámica de collaboracion esperamos que no sea solamente en el norte estaríamos abierto un ano despeus otro ano a deos anos estamos abierto- pero el tema es la cola-la sociedad civil necesidad aprendre a colarovrar – nosotros estamos nacido - de lo que ustedes nos han ispirado

Si se podría ver como colaborar – esperamos que nea solo un ofor en el norte

La metodolgiia - nosotros tenemos expereice de nuestra implicación en moviementos , lo que se llama movimiento en el sentido que nos estamos moviendo - de base ha habido la expereince de ocupar espacios en itnerent que permite colaborar te doy un ejemple que es mumble permite crear salas de confereence y plenaria por internet la gente puede irse de sala en sala - ccuanda hablamos de asamblea de convergencia permanente serua creada por la gente misma con lo intereses que tengan organización políticos etc podría ser mensual como lo hemos exprimentado un ano cada mes en via 22 no es fácil igual que no es faci esta reunión – lo que proponemos es un procsosaprendizaje colectivo – sistemarizalor entre las varias sociedades civiles créer sociedad civil que aprednre que se insperia mutuamente

82- Answers from Uddhab EN

Now uddhab about amit comment-being a neighbour citizen of Nepal-high respect for amit-there is a list of organizations-i could not him amit in lucknow and katmandou-you have the email i sent on the ic list-being a open space-the south Asia meeting wil hedl in katmandu called but hilal in Dhaka secretariat- I attended lucknow preparation meeting was brillant 300 participants-i think it is good to have this event-it is for indian to decide-being a south asia citizen -i still ask youy to consider the three moths time for decision

India – Internal politics in India is not clear for those in the South Asian Social Forum, the minutes of the last meeting in India were clear and the proposal for 2015 was there. The idea of a three-months frame to confirm the proposal is still there.

83 – Answers from Kamal & Mouhieddine–EN

 On polycentric i admit we have not discussed enough this probability - we need to gather and think-our tunisian friend has stressed a point on efficiency and political impact-all the process was through in searching articulation between local problems and systemic convergence-we have thought a two year process towards WSF -We are receptive to a politically importanty proposal as India - we need to think about a comeback of Asia-had no time yet to speak with Quebec friends-we are ready to challenge the suspicious methods of Quevec visa-We have been present with Quebec process-what is consensus formula to face challenge and how not listen to request of this youth from Quebec-and the people from Magrheb process also here

Mouhiedine-we the maghrebe maghes we answer a request: if we candidate for WSF 2015 it means we sacrifice maghreb Mashrek forum in 2015, now instead we answer a request from ic to hold the forum in tunisia in case ther is no other proposal

Tunisia – We need to meet again to understand what is meant by polycentric forum, but we need efficacy and efficiency. A careful approach is being developed in this area to make sure the WSF comes from the villages, from peripheries, to Tunis, even though we need to work more to incorporate the unions. We cannot be insensitive to the call of the Canadian youth, and we are ready to challenge the racist visa issuing system in Quebec. We need a precise answer today on WSF 2015 otherwise we should have organized a Maghreb-Mashreq forum in 2015.

Jason –

Just one thing, it’s already 13 30 We can’t continue the 2nd part of idsussion - we finish with the answer and a little less time for lunch Try to get back from lunch at 3, try for 2:30. 

ic-extension 07:04 17 December at 2h27

ic-extension 00:55  17 December at 2h25

 

Lunch break

Discussion Groups nor not groups?

 ic-extension 106:27 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41816470

ic-extension 106:27 17 December at 4h44

Pierre 30:00 – does minor camera adjustments. Forum room is almost empty during the lunch break. 5-8 people remain behind, working on tomorrow’s agenda through lunch. As people trickle back, discussion moves from working group processes, to new IC working arrangements.

@CI@44mn charter of principles does not say what is the role of IC

1h18 change of facilitation

17h00-19h00 - Discussion not streamed any more

ideas about New IC > Report made on 18-1 part

 

 

Despite willingness and efforts and because fo absence of internet in the room,  the extension team did not manage to obtain a good quality of streaming + chat - some lessons to be learned 

  • ic-extension  04:12  17 December at 11h58

       ic-extension  04:12  17 December at 11h58 (out-of-sequence?)
    Pierre <FR> 30:00-32:09
    Francine <FR> 32:10-33:03
    Leo 33:11-34:12 I am very quickly reporting on two networks that are not present.   They asked me to inform.  On the one hand, it is the Central and Eastern European region.  It has made a social forum in June, focussing on the problematique of right-wing extremism and populism, with the participation of about 15 countries of eastern Europe, including Russia.   BTW they asked me, on a 3-year-old application, to integrate the IC.  Before there was …

     

  • ic-extension 106:27 17 December at 4h44

    Pierre 30:00 – does minor camera adjustments.  Forum room is almost empty during the lunch break.  5-8 people remain behind, working on tomorrow’s agenda through lunch.  As people trickle back, discussion moves from working group processes, to new IC working arrangements. 

  • ic-extension 07:04 17 December at 2h27

    <PT> F 30:00-36:10 Maghreb/Mashrak answers.

    Just one thing, it’s already 12:30.  We can’t continue the 2nd part.  Try to get back from lunch at 3, try for 2:30. 

  • ic-extension 00:55  17 December at 2h25

    <FR> M 20:00-30:55 Quebec answers. 

  • ic-extension 06:19  17 December at 2h02

    30:00-31:00 Questions to the presenters.   If anyone has questions, doubts, things they did not get clear …
    Pierre 31:00-34:00 It’s not a question.  It’s a comment on the Indian statement.  [Pierre reads] Dear IC Members, I am sorry not to be able to be physically present at the meeting but I have been following most of the proceedings virtually.   As a member of the IC and as someone who has been involved in the WSF process in India and South Asia, I would like to make some observations.
    As our comrade from Mumbai has correctly pointed out, there have been some efforts to revive the process in South Asia.  However as yet the process is still very weak and does not approve the movements and the organisation of most of those that have earlier been involved in the WSF process.
    Also the proposal to hold the South Asia SF in March in India is yet to be endorsed by a wide range of movements in India.  Importantly, there has been very little endorsement from movements in other countries in South Asia.   In such a situation, it is premature to consider India as a candidate for WSF2015. Any hasty decision would harm, and even irretrievably damage, possibilities of reviving the process in India.   We are yet to revive an inclusive WSF process in India or in the region.   While efforts will continue, my organisation would not support any thought or promise of organising WSF2015.  Amit
    Francisco <FR> 34:00-35:30

    Chico <FR> 35:40-36:20 

  • ic-extension  00:52  17 December at 2h00

    <FR> M 30:00-30:52 question (ctd) 

  • ic-extension  03:23  17 December at 1h56

    <FR> M 30:00-32:25  Maghreb/Mashrak presentation (ctd)
    32:25-33:00  Merci boucou.  I just wanted to say that this part of the discussion should come later.  Now we need questions of clarification from the proposals.

    <FR> M 33:00-33:25 

  • ic-extension  09:43  17 December at 1h18

       <PT> F 30:00- 31:20
    <FR> M 31:20-37:45 Quebec presentation, ctd
      <PT> F 37:45- 38:18
    We go right away to Tunis so, Kemal.
    Kemal <FR> 39:00-39:44
  • ic-extension 13:0317 December at 1h00

    30:00- 32:10 We are now going to pass to the second part, which is the presentation of proposals for 2015.  Since we are running a bit late, we don’t have time for the methodological discussion about shaping IC.   We go straight into the presentations and have a half hour to see what working groups are most useful now, and for future work of IC.  We need to define the issues to be discussed in the working groups – that will take about a half hour.

      Over to Canada – Quebec for their presentation (15-20 mins max).
    <PT> F 32:10-34:30

    <FR> M 34-30 – 43:03 

  • ic-extension 19:55  17 December at 12h09

      <FR/ES?> M 30:00-31:46
    Chico <FR> 31:46 – 34:00
    Feroz 34:00-36:10
     Most of you are aware of the massive onslaught on social and climate justice movements in Canada, especially increasing under the Harper government.  Attack on democratic institutions.  This has given rise to a very historical event which is being organised for the first time;  the indigenous population, the [Kmick?] people and the rest of Canada have all clubbed together saying, ‘Enough is enough!’
    They are organising the very first Peoples Social Forum in August 2014.  This has been a very long process; for two years consultations have been going on.  Finally we have commission functions in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Halifax, and their caucuses have been set up.  There is a Quebec caucus, indigenous population caucus, other peoples caucus, the women’s caucus is in the making.  This is very energy consuming, but people are dedicated.  They have taken up the challenge.
    The sequence of 4-days’ events is not the end, but only the beginning for the movement of climate justice against the tar-sands exploitation, against extractivism, against fracking which is being promoted by the Canadian government and the Quebec government.   It’s an ongoing process, and I am very happy to see the results so far.  We really need support, not only from North America and the US Social Forum, but the world over.  For more details, please read the flier I have circulated a couple of days ago.  Thank you.
    <AR> M 36:10 – 38:27
    <AR> F 38:36- 39:50
    The repression of activists is a huge problem in many parts of the world, particularly in Maghreb.   I particularly wanted to mention this because no-one is listed to speak about this in Maghreb. I think there have been discussions, in particular Yuseff, working on Maghreb Social Forum, in which the initial preparation of activists will be the key issue.
    Cecilia <ES> 41:50-46:05
    Tomorrow we can change your request.  I need your request.
    Rita <PT> 46:20 – 47:00
    Syad <AR> 47:00 – 48:44
    My proposal is to take a break.  When we return, to address WSF2015.  Gina, your proposal. The idea was to make the agenda tomorrow morning.  If you want to work on the agenda in the break, no problem.  49:55
  • ic-extension 08:36   17 December at 11h48

    <EN> M   0:00 – 1:10…I wanted to bring the old movements and the new movements together, and to have political discussions and street actions at the same time.  I think in May we will have a series of political actions.  The problem is to bring together the new movements, whose organisational structure is delivered by the old ones.  ATTAC is a left party, and they are coming voluntarily onto the streets.
    <AR> Rafiq? 1:26- 2:44
    So, if people think this topic is extinguished, they should not list themselves to speak.
    <EN> M  3:10-4:19  I just wanted to mention the Social Forum for Free Palestine. At the end of 2012, in support for the Palestinian cause, as an example of a successful, supported event.  The region has historically supported two causes – the Cubans and the Palestinians.  We find it was a great success with the presence of a former minister of Mandela who insisted on naming what’s happening in Palestine.  And there’s also support for Colombia.

    Kamal <FR> 4:40-8:38 

  • ic-extension  08:4417 December at 11h37

    Gina <PT> ctd. 0:00-0:37
    Grazias, Gina.
    Leo <FR> 0:43-2:58
    Maui <GER, through FR interpreter>  3:10-6:53
    Nepal? M  6:26-8:44

    We try to revive social forum in South Asia. For example, Gustave related some social forum going on in India.  There’s not very much going on.  I think there were 10 meetings going on from Chennai to Delhi(?), and two proposals for WSF 2015.  Before that, in Kathmandu on November 8 we decided to hold South Asia Social Forum.  That will be in Lucknow,Uttar Pradesh from March 1-5.   So in Nepal we are trying to revive, we held a couple of meetings before I came here.   I think South Asia becomes very important, politically, as well. If you follow India’s process, ... 

  • ic-extension 06:27-  17 December at 11h30

    <FR> F  0:00-4:50
    Thank you.  Let’s stick to the regional theme
    Gina <PT>5:00-6:27

    16 december 

      • testing for wsf  74:29 - 16 December at 12h43 - 30mn  -  algunas breves ideas sobre america latina

        profundamente neoliberal -   extractivistas - lucha por la tierra y el territorio -  crecientement fundamentalista -  con excepcion de uruguay  -  3 / hay un movimento  de jovenes  - con profunda desconfianza al estado -  articulacion al rededor de luchas  - de coloinalidad - 

        34 mn presentacion del cuestionario - 35mn  de monastir a tunis - el grupo presento en tunez -  ....

        59mn Leo - sur ce qu'a dit gus  le fsm a trois axes  neolibéralisme   - milititarisme -  racisme ( mireille) -  on dit que le néolibéralisme est en crise mais il va très bien -  c'est a propos des convergences - Gus  tu as dit de définir l'espace et le role des états d'une manière différente - impliquerait ocnvergence entre acteurs des états contre le néolibéralisme -  et société civile - voir si on  ne peut pas intégrer ce courant de partis qui sont pour une alternative au néolibéralisme  3/  suis très en faveur de la régionalisation  du fsm - seulement pour que les régions aient une vie propre - ca doit se lier aux thématique de chaque région - nous en euriope on a de nouveau une esxpérience  d'un forum contre extreme droite et populisme  -  il faut la régionalisation avec des thématiques adaptées -  en ce qui concerne  mouvements  puerta del sol - font partie des régions - la majorité des acteurs que l'on connait sont engagés dans ces moouvements  - assemblées régionales qui collectent les iniitiatives des forums sociaux  -

        il est une heure moins dix

        outtara - 1h06  - groupe de travail sur la capitalisation proposé par Gus eviter de recycler et ressasser - groupe de capitalisation

        deux question   renforcement de la dynamique a travers de l'espace ;..   en afrique   fsm au kenya  et dakar  incpacité notoire ou refus délibéré du ci de s'impliquer

        comment ces espaces vont integérer le conseil ?

        1h08 raphael - regionalisation  articulation methodologique  - proposition d'ivry interessante - ..oncraint rejoint la colonialité  - choc des civilisation  trop localier les luttes perdre la dimension de fraternité des peuples  lien entre justice sociale et environnementale -  penser la com - initiave - articuler les forums régionaux et leur permettre e se parler et les itnerconnecter - en 2006  ils se sont pas parlé  - comment les interconnecter  - ne pas perdre de vue cette dimensionn

        1h11 edda - algunas informaciones  de arci -  miembro del consejo  5 7 diciembre en johanesburg - candidatura en manila  - valor fuerte en afica - reunion en junio - con el comité promotor sur africano  han sido reafirmado que el fsmmigarion es un processo del foro scial :mundial -  hemos reafirmado este enlace - 2/ el forum de migracion est diferente del global forum ONU - ( se corta el sonido ..)

  • ic-extension  28:3016 December at 2h15

  • ic-extension  00:57 - 16 December at 1h47

  • ic-extension  01:30  -  16 December at 1h45

  • ic-extension  05:46 - 16 December at 1h38

  • ic-extension 02:17  - 16 December at 1h32

  • ic-extension  08:00  - 16 December at 1h23

  • ic-extension 19:09  - 16 December at 12h18