• hammamet 201411 extension chatlog en

last modified November 19, 2014 by facilitfsm


online participation. 4

30 october
31 october

November 1st 21

November 2nd. 36

Commissions groups held in the morning 9-11. 36


online participation

Jason, Janneth, Mallory, Amit Wilhelmina, Uddhab, Giuseppe, Cecilia, Meena, Gina

Eric Gustavo

30 october

[10:27:57] Jason: Thanks Pierre

[11:22:04] Pierre: hello am in yasmine beach in the meeting room

[12:37:09] IC.extension: we are trying to stream the meeting you can check on you tube " “esperanza efessem" maybe it works may be not :)

[21:28:18] IC.extension: well not much news today ... informal methodology and communitation meeting more people arrived tonight

[21:30:33] Janneth : Hola, voy siguiendo las comunicaciones, estoy en un evento que convocó mi organización sobre minería que me mantendrá fuera de las discusiones por hoy y mañana

[21:42:05] Mallory : It would be excellent to have a link to the stream

[01:01:45] IC.extension: first attempt was unsuccessful then plenary meeting stopped let us see tomorrow

[01:01:47] IC.extension: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJWaKsNRL0

[03:27:00] uddhab: good

31 october

[09:24:25] IC.extension: hello https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkwapZ_9fPw

Starting in a moment

[09:43:04] giuseppe : hi Pierre and all Pierre a favour, could you give a sense who is in the room, how many people etc., if you can collect a list of participants and maybe take a picture and send it as attachment or something like that, and finally for the time being... there is no image in the streaming right?

[09:57:59] IC.extension: yes but now it is back now it is starnting 60 people in the room there is a large delay with real time

[09:59:25] giuseppe : where are participants from?

[10:00:01] IC.extension: 50% local and 50 %IC

[10:00:17] giuseppe : Merci!

[10:00:52] IC.extension: delay is several minutes now image is back right?

[10:01:17] giuseppe : image is back quality is "ok" :)

[10:01:43] IC.extension: now round of presentation is starting Gus is chairing

[10:02:03] giuseppe : ok here i see Gus speaking

[10:02:13] IC.extension: sound is fine

[10:02:32] giuseppe : yes mostly ok i can easily follow for the time being

[[10:07:52] giuseppe : is there no more sound? or is it me? it's back!

[10:04:40] @1Taofik

 now Taofik making a summary of yesterday meeting on methodology

: base paper Taofik - enriched with comments from people yesterday

 objectives of WSF

 spaces - and special forums included in WSF

main program 24 march

25 self organized focus on regions

26 self organized

27 convergences assemblies

28 final moment and closing

8 questions ( comments from yesterday) (8th question is the document i sent about methodology and website )

 Opening what kind of opening

 More time for self organized activities? - balance between activities and convergences link between activities and convergence assembles - convergence route/path

5th make sure that frist day is opened beyond the region

convergence assembles self organized what is their weight - how to stimulate movements to converge

Criteria for announcing a convergence

 How to show result of convergences

 Some think that final moment in the street should be given a better chance of implementation than in 2013

 Everybody agrees not to present results during the closing, too boring as in Dakar

 Solidarity march with Palestine on 28

 Now special forums issue - before or during the forum

Some observe that those forums take energy away from convergences they converge indoor - also they mobilize resources and do not mutualize with others

 Some other think about how to dynamize the post forum period

 Create an imitative space to secure a fillow up of results in the foru and give a chance to organization to folow up

 How to reflect methodology on web site ? so that it is not info site, but a participation site in the various steps of methodology

 Proposal of calendar up to march

[10:20:30] Giuseppe : it would be so good if we could also have those documents, maybe someone from Tunis organisation could send the pdfs? or pictures of the documents? ....

[working on it but in french only

axes should emerge from pre registering

[10:23:11] giuseppe : ah wonderful Pierre thanks! french is fine!: there is google translate... right?

[10:26:26] *** IC.extension envoie méthodologie du 30-10-2014 new.doc ***

[10:30:38] giuseppe : great Pierre the document is very useful! Thanx

[10:23:52] IC.extension: yess

[10:28:21] IC.extension: hello amit :)

 [10:36:02] emit: hello Pierre!

Registration fees contributed for 23% du Tunis budget 2013 we go on in this direction proposal that big movement give more than the fee on registering their activities

 Now Gus is facilitating debate on this document


[10:31:00] @2Gus :

In Tunis women assembly was a great thing at the beginning of forum - this could be done again, some activities could be outside Tunis and also in some neighborhood in Tunis

now presentation round has been postponed till a wireless mike came

Methodology discussion

Gus discussion on WSF2015 methodology but also on evolution of WSF2015 methodology

WSF methodology in general

Those who want to make general input - start first

 Damien Diakalia Hugo Rafaela Francine

 [10:38:48] IC.extension: (Pierre and another person Fida from ltdh are appointed to make the report of the meeting)


[10:36:17] @3 Damien -

 Underline that there is no Spanish translation in the room we are disabled by this

 Among special forum three is international fip - international platform of NGO IFP in english - coordination sud, AbONG

I am worried by only one day of self organized activities for those who are not from the region ( 26 ?)

 We organize everything in one day?

 Two days is a minimum

Open on themes of the region that others can share 25

 on assembly of assemblies very important not an ideological carnival we did not succeed whereas another process is succeeding is social movement assembly and give it more visibility ?

[10:42:26] @4 Gus:

can we organize translation group for Portuguese and Spanish

 Tomorrow there will be Spanish in the cabins meanwhile the Spanish people manage

[10:45:33] IC.extension: (3-4mn delay with streaming)


[10:44:28] @5Hugo

 Thank you for methodology document

Preparation process in Germany will start only after this meeting and you want to close end of the year this is not realistic

What is difference between pre - and final registration

 This document is only in French, this is a WSF not a francophone one


[10:46:46] @6Diakalia

 Security level for this forum ? march in WSF2013 African group prevented Moroccan dn saharaouis to fight also a Islamist group got in with black flag

 2/ no visibility of African social forum - which was held recently in Dakar - i do not see ths in the document

 3/ many request that more solidarity from IC expected and to not see this ine the paper

 4/ agglutination who is caring about it?

5/ payments

[10:50:15] IC.extension: in 2013 Taofik went to collect payment from people who had not payed ...and ware in the El ManarEl Manarsite

6/ fees food price on the venue keep them under control

7/ WSF cafe in Dakar allowing participants from afar to get a sense of African forum a good idea can be replicated for Tunis


[10:50:52] @7Rafaella

agree with Hugo - wee need a lONGer pre registration process

[how to save time ?

 Register at the same time activities and convergence assemblies to avoid previous problems

big convergence in Paris about climate - there is a committee already organized

 what have to wait to say there is a convergence assembly on climate they can do it form now

 we can change some things

1/ answer important need of movement - need for debate because there are a lot of issues which need to be updated

 find a way to have 2 hours at the end of the day with big meeting personalities testimonies intellectual big plenaries to debate crucial issues - each day

 2 or 3 big assemblies which can be self organize co organized IC organize please do not remain on this point let us find a way

 2/ assembly of assemblies was a disaster for many reasons - when we have a big final moment full of culture symbolic presence we could - read 2 pages with 3 line on convergence assemblies - a common political text with outcome read at the closing


[10:58:46] @8 Francine

1/ call at ourselves so that parity is respected for panelists

2/ have space for special forums

3/ agree with Rafaela on debate on big issues - we are busy and not aware of what is happening in other areas - am working in the social area

Pope has organized a kind of social forum on excluded and poverty

 Widen this area with trade unions -difficult to separate right of excluded and labor rights

[11:03:00] Moema Annie Pierre

[11:04:03] @9Gus

Visibility of forum - media - conferences by Rafaela

 Discussion on theme - pregiven or axes derived from what people have registered

[11:07:51] IC.extension: 15mn break

[11:12:12] Wilhelmina : Hello everyone - I have a lot to catch up with - we have been without electricity since 5.30 yesterday (Thu) just been re-connected so will read what has happened so far and hopefully follow from now (wave)

[11:30:35] @10Moema

[11:30:38] IC.extension: resuming


[11:40:44] @11Pierre -

Let us not oppose visibility and participation interaction

Participation and interaction feed visibility

1/ extension

2 / more interactive website(see last page proposals of methodology document)

3/ initiative file

4/ final moment


[11:41:21] @12Annie

Convergence and transversality

Special forums - are simultaneous and away from the main forum- networks debate between themselves

 they should be held before or after main forum

 Spaces - world village more than stalls in spaces

More transversality ...

 2 days for self organized - last forum first day on continent -on second day they are de phased in term of convergence ahead of the others: this create parallel meeting that could be merged

Campaigns existing should be visible from pre registering

and new campaigns we need to work on this


[11:47:33] @13Liege

[11:48:39] IC.extension: they say forum is a political articulation space exchange of experience .... Agree with Damien that self organized activities should allow people participate in other activities

 Assembly of assemblies not successful in Tunis 2013 and Dakar

While march women assembly and ASM are prominent

 Which is set aside from organization of WSF - is not considered part of WSF we should think better


[11:50:36] Wilhelmina : what is the las are they saying these two assemblies are not part of the WSF?

[11:51:21] IC.extension: (liege is saying this ....this is her own expression) she supports giving more importance to ASM she says this is was prominent also women assembly


[11:52:16] @14Fabien

 Science and democracy forum

Now we have maturity to invite non activist researcher inside WSF

 We do not want to instrumentalize WSF on the contrary, we want a new public ot discover WSF - foster convergence, we just require a poster on the rooms we will use and have a group of rooms, we will participate to solidarity fund


[11:54:23] @15Cesare

IAI use WSF 2015 as world assembly of inhabitants not as a special forum

Will we will see methodology in and in neighborhoods

 Final assembly as convergence assembly

Campaign - proposed on redistribution of wealth or peace as WSF: something that commits

Two days ago pope launch a call to support the poor for radical change - pay attention to the moves in international scene

we will bring our volunteers interpreter networks -many people could be available depending how it is received - our social capital


[11:59:30] @16Rita

Brazil Ciranda

WSF would not be what it is without communication

We have now a movement on communication rights born in WSF

WSF is a communicative process itself

How the activities should be shared with streaming translation

We have research for this but isolated

We have forum on free media 2 days before WSF then like to debate during WSF with social movements


[12:03:46] uddhab : ok

[12:04:05] IC.extension: hello uddhab are you enjying the video ?


[12:05:23] @17Chico

 We are in a strange situation

 We had commissions in IC it worked with local commissions now w do not have it anymore

 We make recommendations how will they be received by local group

 i hope the updated document will be shared with IC and we can react on this

 i will reinforce some ideas here

 more time on self organized activities

closing we look for solution since 2001 - give visibility but no give a unique direction

 idée of Rafaela of a commission with 3 line each assembly may be a good idea, but not abandon the idea of final moment

local organization committee did not support it was poorly prepared, [because of competition with march on Palestine]

 Moment when people of city can learn and each assembly learn about the others

Let us keep this running

 Assembly of social movement is part of WSF - it is an important network - but not a principal as if conclusion of forum

 We had misunderstanding and we combined things to give voice but not the voice

 Inscription of convergence must be from now

 evening 7pm to 9pm keep it free so people do articulation that they did not do experience in 2005 was good improvised meeting - can be combined with this idea of big conference at this same time - a freer moment

 Supporting Pierre

 Moema said that we need to engage in promoting WSF as such - few people know about this am worried as here it is election another months

IC should create a special committee for dissemination


[12:13:40] @18 Zina

FTDES kasserine inside Tunisia

Develop WSF in region

 Make communication on big screens (has participated in wsf café Dakar)

 Coordinate with local media so these region feel heard

 They have right to dream and believe some people are interested in them


[12:15:13] @19Leonardo

 We also decided that next country will be Quebec and work in cooperation

 Where are they?

 They were supposed to be involved we decided that youth people - support youth contribution

We have not had a communication use of media

The world is a communication revolution and we are still doing as in 2001

We should reexamine the WSF2015 logo


[12:17:39] Wilhelmina : I have just logged onto my laptop where I am able to see what is happening in the room - :)

[12:17:50] IC.extension: :)


[12:17:54] @20Brahim


 more time on self organized

 first day will risk to be between Africans and maghrebians

We should focus on international issues democracy repression of social movements

 where people form other region can include themselves

 How to bridge between self organized and assemblies convergence

 convergence assemblies

 criteria for them

 limit their number

 Assembly of assembly is a presentation moment not debate

We did not find time to improve organizing of ASM

3/ as Diakalia -participation of political parties they had stalls in 2013 - pro state morrocans on Sahraouian issues having done inacceptable things during march of ASM how to settle this


[12:24:55] Gus - close the list

: Abdeljellil Roger Samuel: maria


[12:25:18] @21Abdeljellil

FTDES economy of the methodology text - not reflecting the worry of WSF militants

 we all know this process is somehow exhausting

i would have liked proposal for redynamizing

 i think this is due to the fact we always have wanted to recapitalize and impulse

correct and innovate

 i would have liked this text to recall the context of lower dynamics and indicate steps to correct and impulse

 information mobilization participation themes visibility follow up

 we would have participated not only to organizing thematic but being a step of redynamization

there are many proposals i wll limit to ask another presentation of the text - we care about redynamize and propose steps for that

[12:28:50] @22Gus

this is the issue in the council, there will be another meeting of methodology


[12:29:38] @23Samuel

 Links between 2015 and 2016

in august we met delegate from WSF2015 and we try to supply what is required by them

That is what we do for now

Innovation on communication recently we had an assembly in live streaming with a chat room where people could participate remotely


[12:30:54] @24Roger

 i was main organizer of people social forum in Canada

On WSF2016 as a representative of alternative currently there is no convergence on the ground between WSF 2016 and PSF

 it cannot be held if the PSF is not involved - we propose that decision about WSF2016 be postponed to march 2015 and a report made on merging or not of the two processes and have Canadian actors present and voicing their views

 PSF involved all kind of moment including indigenous

 First time since 2001 - and first time that indigenous present from the onset

in 2014 as indigenes are principal actors against tar sands pipeline if they are not present in WSF form the onset

 2/ as first time in 20 years collaboration is occurring it is unthinkable not to reflect this -

social dynamics should be strongly included in the WSF process not the case for now

 IC should insist that is be a consensus initiative in Canada - otherwise conditions are for disaster - this is what will be said in IC

About WSF

 i suggest to open the convergence registration as soon as possible

 Post forums cannot be built if convergence are not - they need time assertion and make contacts and agglutination


[12:37:57] @25Maria

president of ENDA, i work with Taofik

 ENDA gives a capital importance ot national regional and world forum

ENDA give one person in Tunisia for this

we see the results in the country

 There is more and more awareness of population in Senegal there was west African forum

How will our countries sense that issues on food sovereignty and land grabbing are issues visible in world forum

 Whenever moments take an issue politicians come


[12:41:03] @26Gus

 floor to Taofik then 2 groups

 -one on IC agenda - and one on theme axes conferences


[12:41:44] @27Taofik

A way to finalize this proposal as it can be agreed by council

all point trends are visible

 The group working yesterday can join us tonight we have inclusion of different points - 7pm working group 1h30 mn work


[12:44:02] @28Gus

 working group on these axes

 Annie - Chico - Francine - Hassania - Hechmi - Cesare - Brahim -Hamad - Patrice - Solange - Zied Shenjing - salmin - Raffaëlli - Racha

(this group finally did not work)

Working group on IC agenda - during meal

(this group did meet)

15 pm opening of IC - UGTT and Abdeljellil opening panel

3 points in agenda

1/debate on political situation - answering Abdeljellil concerns

2/ preparation of WSF - commission meting - which are the commission that can met

3/ organizing of IC

 Agenda is not finalized during meal


[12:51:08] lunch break

 Thanks to interpreters


[12:51:57] Giuseppe : Thank you to Pierre!!! et bon appétit aussi, a bientot

[12:53:32] Azril: When exactly is this chat top be? At what time??? Good work, Pierre! Abrazo. Azril. PD: Suggest that we have a parallel telephone list, in case there are complications with the chat via skype. My swedish cellphone is:+46-72-2125037. I am currently thinking of two sessions: (1) A follow-up from our successful panel on Dialogue between Religions and Civilizations and (2) Managament of Nuclear Waste. Abrazo. Azril

[12:55:39] Azril: When exactly is this chat top be? At what time??? Good work, Pierre! Abrazo. Azril. PD: Suggest that we have a parallel telephone list, in case there are complications with the chat via skype. I am currently thinking of two sessions: (1) A follow-up from our successful panel on Dialogue between Religions and Civilizations and (2) Managament of Nuclear Waste. Abrazo. Azril Is it taking place right now???


[15:15:08] After lunch

[15:06:21] IC.extension: hello we are back

follow us in youtube search for "esperanza efessem"

 There is a 3h stream of this morning meeting

 Now afternoon meeting will start in a few moments

[15:18:00] Mallory : Is it the same link as before?

[15:18:03] uddhab : ok: good

[15:18:16] IC.extension: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNSgIkwTqp Y

[15:18:25] Mallory : Thank you!

[15:18:46] IC.extension: there is a large delay 3/4 mn

now this afernoon :

Exposition on political situation in Tunisia

Then pause

Then international situation and movement situation till 7pm tonight UTC+1

[15:24:54] IC.extension: who is around ?: soon starting

[15:28:25] Giuseppe : thanks again Pierre this is great! if you could make sure people don't speak into their mics the quality of the sound might improve enormously :)

[15:28:41] @29Abdelhafidh

 Now ex president of university speaking and welcoming in IC

we are mobilized even more than last time and try to improve

 now giving the floor to UGTT Asma faya general secretary

 then Abdeljellil FTDES

 then Rafaella

[15:35:13] *** a invité marcel eric asma, danny, fatimata Gustavo Youssef, kashif Boa ***


[15:34:41] @30 Asma -UGTT

 [15:34:46] we try t have en efficient role in civil society

So Tunisia can get through a sort of crisis

after the elections we feel somehow relieved

we thank IC for having chosen Tunisian as a venue for WSFand having accepted UGTT in this council

 i thank civil society which respect our effort in organization of WSF

Would like to assert thanks to my comrades who travelled for afar to this meeting and promise to join effort

We pledge to improve from last time,not to satisfy ourselves but to make some visits so they know Tunisia better, we will work towards the success of this forum


[15:40:43] IC.extension: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNSgIkwTqpY

 [15:39:07] @31A

i was form university El Manara a long time

[i was asked to speak about political situation in Tunisia nearly final result that allow analysis

Growth rate fell from 4% a year to 1.5% 5% inflation rising budgetary deficit rising 6% GNP payment balance deficit degraded 8% GNP importation rising on oil and food public debt from 2010 x 1.7


[15:47:36] Wilhelmina : you tube not working no sound bad camera work

there was an internet break now resuminghttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUGkY88973poKprpx3UsN5Q check this link


[15:54:23 people chamber - 85 nida tunes liberal modernists - 69 Enahda, 16 for a fake party with millionnaire at his head, 15 popular front


concerns about stability

nida tunes + afat tunis + union national libre, three liberal modernist

 109 siege 1 over majority very weak, adding popular front 15

 more comfortable but less homogeneous

Enahda+ nida tunes possible


[16:02:49] giuseppe : and welcome back

[16:03:18] IC.extension: end of exposure on Tunisia brief and informative

[16:03:45] *** invité torsten, yoshihide***

[16:04:30] uddhab : good data

[16:04:39] IC.extension: thanks uddhab

[16:05:11] uddhab : thanks for it

[16:06:26] .eric: bonsoir

[16:06:33] IC.extension: (hello eric)this is english chat and french speaking videos

[16:07:51] Gustavo ottawa: What is the "agenda" there?

[16:08:09] .eric: ok

[16:08:41] @32Diakalia

has two questions

what is capacity of trade union and civil society to influcen the situation

what was the use of the debet


[16:11:41] @33Hassania

asking a question

 what has changed in strategies of the parties

 especially in the democrats and nahda

[16:13:41] @34Moema

What is happening in the neighboring countries and interaction between democratic Tunisan and them

 Relation with expression of civil moments in political space

 question about continuity of national dialogue after the elections

Invest in those social movements

What do you think about capacity of action of new government

[16:15:51] @35 Brahmi

in the three scenario, there is continued degradation

[16:17:41] @36 Abderahmane FTDES answering

 There is a data for politician think about 17 dec to 14 jan

 Since 2003 we saw rise of new movement and emigrations

 2008 was the upturn in mining region of Gafsa

 from 17 dec following day after day and mottos social profile of casualties

Last 10 years of Ben Ali social movement and civil society countered Ben Ali power

 Technocrat government have no idea of the real country

 Lampedusa - school drop out - salafism - people have no more patience

: daily struggle 8 mmilions of people have IDs there is 1 milion less voters than 2011

 in sidi bouzid there is a lot of abstention

i see that there will be a lot of struggles there should be more alliance between social movement and protest, social martyrs they should get their share

 Dubious political - corruption lobby in th parliament -new business and dirty money in political

 Fiscal reform - social movement will have a hard time

 WSF comes timely regarding these hardships

[16:25:26] @37 Abdeljellil answering questions

[16debt has been used for debate and basic operation no useful impact

you are invited by civil society in Tunisia that has real power

 people have voted Nida Tuness to put Enahda in second position, many people have done that

abstention has reinforced Enahda: they have disciplined voters and lost 600000 votes

lack of resources :

Nida Tuness may prefer alliance with Enhada for two reasons

have their candidate supported for president

Neutralize opponent in view of difficult government ahead

but it is a costly coalition creating tension in nida tunes, same inside Enahda

I expect national dialogue to be useful to handle this delicate situation

Situation in Libya out of control

Democratic transition experience is bathed in hostility from our neighbors

 i expect civil society to be fed up: civil society have ups and downs they can fatigue

2011 was a high; let us hope not, let us remember that it is civil society who countered Enahda at its peak - i would have liked Enahda to go to election while still in power and civil society would just have three commissions on its back: nomination in public service - neutrality of mosques - use of public money

Enahda got a break and could reorganize, was clever enough to maintain fuzziness about supporting a presidential candidate

 Balance of Enahda and troika was postponed by candidates

Enahda maneuvered well and keeps second position

solidarity of social movement and staying alert is very needed - a lot of reforms are coming that touch everyday life of citizens

[16:41:33] @38 Abdelhafidh

 in 2013 we were really concerned and worried , now we are much thanking all of them

we know that for social movement situation is never easy -new challenges

 On behalf from all of us, we have to thank democratic forces and civil society road is difficult but you keep it open

Thanks to organizing committee -their work provide us possibility to be here in one the region which are the most crucial in the planet

Thanks to Maghreb social forum dynamics which is keeping alive strong and united dynamics of WSF itself

 i hope after coffee break we can contribute


[16:44:52] @39Taofik

 Those who want to contribute to solidarity fund, Ahlem will collect them

[16:45:43] 15mn Coffe break

[16:46:00] Mallory : How can we contribute online to the solidarity fund?

[16:47:24] IC.extension: good question Mallory, will ask ahlem

[16:54:44] Mallory : Thx

[17:05:43] Azril: It seems to be the case that Tunez is doing better than Europe in respect to widening and deepening the democratic process. In Sweden, the extreme rigth party: the so-called "Swedish Democrats" doubled their numbers, whose origin is neo-Nazi (and remain closely linked) has become the third political party in the parliament, is represented in more than 200 municipal governments, is represented in various national committees and are "legally" entitled to obtain over 4 million swedish crowns from SIDA to "assist" their sister parties in third world countries. Explicit neo-nazi partries (2 of them) are represented in at least 2 municipalities. The social forum has markedly decline in Sweden after the European Social Forum 2008 in Malmö, for reasons not addressed nor dealt with until now. The closest to the WSF-process in Sweden right now is "Friends of the Earth" working for "environmental and climate justice"...At least in Uppsala, the red-green coalition won the municipal government. With social-democrats so close to the conservative alliance, it is difficult to appraise their next steps. One good step in the international political arena is the recognition of Palestine as a national-state. The proposed budget from the "red-green" coalition that won the elections will be a litmus test for its political future. The result depends very much on the position of the "Swedish-Democrats." If the proposed budget does not pass the vote, there will likely be a political crisis and new elections. One of the skills appreciated in Lovgren by the bourgeois is that he made his political career in negotiating for the metal labor union. He repeatedly calls for negotiation and cooperation accross political boundaries, from his centrist position. A week ago, he was unable to take to Brussels the position of the environmental party to lower the levels of C02 in the EU discussion and position concerning the next climate summits (Perú, hardly talked about in december 2014) and Paris (2015). Nordic actions are being planned against the nuclear plant in Finland, during november. Scattered protest actions are taking place against Swedish proximity to (and eventual membership) to Nato, magnified by a 2-weeks media frenzy about the encroachment of russian U-boats in the swedish archipielago, like 20 years ago, with no U-boat being detected and with millions of crowns wasted, seemingly for the navy to get more funds...C'est ça mes amis, for the time being. Abrazos. Azril

[17:08:39] IC.extension: thanks azril

 mallory we will bring sometime the iban code of FTDES for a wire transinterpreters are asking to stand up


[17:24:14] Azril: leaving the session to attend the presentation of 2 books on Peru...return tomorrow. At what time on this part of the world???

9am [17:25:19] Azril: OK! Thanks.

[17:05:00] @40Gus

in Casablanca we had decided to open a debate you can find it here: in openfsm.net search "newci" general page 9 contributions

Arguments are often heard that WSF is exhausted : i do not share this, world situation has changed a lot and we have not been able to adapt


There is a change in capitalist globalization 2008-2011 WSF was able to take this change into account in Belem 2009, crisis of neoliberalism does not mean end of neoliberalism

 we see in Tunisia that all parties define themselves in relation to neoliberalism

 in Belem some movement spoke via campesina and indigenous movement said it was a civilization crisis ( redefine relationship with nature and put in question occidental modernity)

Movements who constituted the forum were better heard with this analysis in 2009 2010

 A series of issues were taken by governments encounters after 2008 - commission of UN with Joseph stiglitz and amartya sen

Change occurred after 2011 we saw popular explosions - answers from people - Tunisian revolution irruption of people

Tunisie Egypt indignados chilenos occupy Quebec turkey rio Hong Kong

people get through a breach (annah arendt) many people in the streets but no political transformation

 All these movements have claims similar to Tunisia - dignity domination - exploitation of nature inequality -there is a kind of "program"

system was able to reinforce domination political and military - zone of security issues and conflicts

we need to take stock of what movement bear since 2011


[17:35:15] Azril:

 the issue for me is why we (WSF/ESF) are not yet able to write "the agENDA" for the peoples (social movements) of the world??? most existing governments, including our "progressive" governments continue to carry neoliberal extractivist and industrialist policies with populist-clientelistic measures not devoid of corruption...our hope lies in social movements and increasingly even in progressive churches, like the new pope and the swedish church - with a wide moral or ethical and inspirational impact right now. For instance, K.G. Hammar, a former archbishop in Sweden has written a book on "Holy Peace," which is read throughout Sweden. He supported and partook in the ESF 2008 in Malmö, for those who remember...


 Take stock of digital cultural revolution ecological revolution

we realize that workers movement from which stems the forum somehow

 it grew from 1905 to 1970 made revolution - delocalization - imposed new deal- besieged centre countries …..then 40 years of recess

2011: a change of trend?

globalization has changed in the last 10 years video started again normalization of globalization is differentiated by region south America - three Africas - three Asias - Europes - north America

new situations of confrontations between movements and dominant groups resuming .. crisis of us hegemony


[17:46:29] IC.extension:resuming sorry for internet problems, please tell me when you see image and soound again

[17:46:51] Giuseppe : ah no apologies Pierre, it certainly is not your fault :) thanks again



[17:48:08] Cecilia : Hi Pierre dont worry we all have Gus document

[17:48:48] IC.extension: thanks Cecilia and welcome

[17:49:36] Cecilia : I´ve been following in silence...jeje but in few minutes I will need to leave: yes! thanks

[17:50:21] Giuseppe : ah well this is good we can always watch it later


[17:47:05] alterglobalist movement is not the forum only

 is the anti-systemic movement

Zapatistas are not in the forum, we do not group all movement of resistance,we group one part


[17:49:41] quoting Gramsci

convince movement that another world is possible

anyway the video is recorded ....

new movements appearing

WSF confronted to fatigue of movement that gaive birht to forum

how to include new movement

a difficult question

many people say those movements have failed

some other say these movement have not intelligible way - whatare the traces let by these movements

“it is a bit early to tell” if revolutions of 2011 have failed ( Mao asked about french revolutin)

 it is not about defining ; but ..

[17:55:51] IC.extension: applause

[17:56:07] @41Rafaella

Could we go longer than 7pm


[18:02:27] Wilhelmina : was the question about who was present answered?

[18:03:14] IC.extension: (which question Wilhelmina?)

[18:04:27] Wilhelmina : sorry Pierre who was in the meeting just picked up number

(Wilhelmina there was finally no presentation round)

[18:07:37] *** Cecilia is gone ***

[17:56:57] @42Moema

[separate issue of analyse of conjuncture of our momevnt in our region and the isue of WSF is left for tomorrow

[18:00:08] Rafaella


[18:02:38] @43Roger

In north America, a crucial question is the emergence of climatic movement

1/Development of an alliance between indigenous and other ( pipeline tar sand etc.. they are at forefront)

 Any social forum in north America should address this

of people

 2/ bridge with trade union movement

400 000 people in new york

Emergence of something crucial

Social forum movement can contribute several quality


[18:06:16] @44 Youssef

[Palestine PNGO we hesitate same debate friends of Palestine are fatigue Palestine should build their country

What happened in Gaza

Climate environment any subject can include Palestine

Egypt should be up to its responsibilities Lebanon

 Strategy to hit Lebanon

it is up to Tunisia to speak about

There is a Daech ( Islamic state ISIS) in israel and north America

Palestinian people will always resist

[18:11:13] @45 Moema

There is a very fragmented reality in south America, very difficult to converge

We had suddenly some government but big transnational have been brilliant in putting themselves behind and leaving the appearance

Lula Evo the promise was of big transformation

They decided extractivist economy - a big boom of mining and agro business

This tends to oppose movements between themselves and difficult to converge

 Left has not a comprehensive answer to the capitalist crisis comprehensive narrative

 We implement what is possible in the frame of capitalism

Environmental agenda is more invisible in Latin America than in Canada

Narrative that can combine


[18:15:45] @46 Genevieve

 incapable of speaking of moment in Europe in 4 mn

3 points

1/We see emerging things that are under the table

Struggle about trade agreements Tafta etc is good

role of multinationals: power is not in the government and good to have campaigns that were at the base of alter-globalism

Question of democracy is everywhere and that unites us

Denial and capture of democracy by transnationals

2/ There is acceleration of base struggles about socio environment issues - big useless project decided above populations, struggles that set up the democracy and natural resources issues

 These are not struggles to get a little more in the system, these are systemic struggles that set the model in question

we have a young man dead in France a few days ago, in a demonstration against a useless dam, there is criminalization of social movements

 3/ question of climate : make climate a concrete questions - stake is to show how climate change reach out to fragile populations - building climate justice - Alternatiba process has important success in France

it is part of our history should not cut things

[18:20:46] @47 Damien

(abong) thanks to Gus

in Latin America governments have included some proposal from social forum

But economic policy has not changed

Ambiguity of government that do not question and also ambiguity of social movement in relaton to the state

Capacity of critique has gone down

 WSF is not an alterglobalist movement - we have many differences - we are in a space - atlerglobalism lowers the adhesion - but this word is not adapted

 forum is a space in the struggle for another world

We have gone in some isolation and lost contact with other initiatives

 We oppose to what ? we make alliance with who?

We have problems . WSF is a planetary mobilization - we need to have relations with others movements and governments

example: agenda post 2015 in UN …what is the WSF position-?

 why not invite pope in WSF ?


[18:25:10] @48 Cesare

Analyze better the other movements that are not in WSF process

Without us having perceived what was moving - there were other things moving like religion

Islamism appears as a hope for poor

as Christianity of origins

There are other social movements - other are leaving to religion

if the pope has made a revolutionary call - forced expulsion described as war act

our analyses should produce better output

 Request on of people crossing Mediterranean go beyond our capacity of analysis and invention

Decision of evolution of WSF process

It is not only a place - where one is happy because one has spoken

In 2016 there is habitat III

what will be said ?

Change our vision and way of doing

 Capacity to launch commitments engagement

[18:31:03] @49 Hector

We are facing the end of cycle where we were capable to build big social articulation hemispheric alliance WSF other networks

we won ideological battle – in Mar del Plata Alca Ftaa was defeated

We were at the offensive

in some regions we transform into political powers in south America

a new cycle is open by social movements we do not know

we are discussing, there is no clear thing

 Many social organizations that used to come to WSF have met with the pope in Vatican they created a world social coordination with support of the pope

This is the problem of WSF - has been expression of state of social movement -state of confusion is that we do not find how to articulate movements at global scale

What will be he wil the exit of capitalism we discussed that - and now it is clear

Deepening neo-liberalism and state of war everywhere

 neo-liberalism of war

Very aggressive everywhere launching new offensives

only evo is winning the rest is receding in south America

we are facing a dilemma

Capitalism has social basis everywhere

we should try to find reasons that could put together social movements

wenned to ighg

WSF is reflect of state of situation of social movements

 we fought but did not win credibility problems find a new perspective

how WSF could be a way to make this ideological battle

 Mexico is a dramatic example fo neo-liberalism and war


[18:41:52] *** boa is gone ***


[18:38:51] @50 Solange

Two weeks ago was Africa social forum in Dakar

 Exchange focused about - leave resources to Congo we could live with this - how many years of war

here there are no road

not only economical aspects calamities

Africa is field of struggle of superpowers competition

 Mali war is fought for positioning

when you speak about democracy what does it mean - president imposed for 30 years

Africa has blue yellow rose helmets

All theses point were debated in Senegal

i hope that our thinking focused on domination on Africa

Some countries can go centuries back

FTA country by contry to oblige them

now by region

Africa is living war

 What is possible to do

 People have not crossed arms -

People is struggling in Burkina - but army chief has taken charge

No democracy manipulation and pressure

 African continent is an essential part of the world

 Democracy resource militarization should be in good place with Islamism

Cameroun Nigeria are being hostaged

There is support text circulating for Burkinabe people in struggle

[18:48:30] @51 Fathi

Thanks Gus for the document on WSF

I hope translation will be made -it is a important text

Putting in visibility any point in relation to WSF

Why do have a tendency to leave important movement i the world

Their absence is weakening the WSF

Where are important movements

I see little movements and familiar faces

we focus on debate

we are fed up with debate we need solutions

 Touristic visit and then back home

Social movement must created change - Chavez had proposed think of change stop debating

Document of Porto Alegre - is it a bible? must not be touched? is obsolete must be changed


Why trade union do not propose global protest the same day

Are you afraid of decisions ?

If we support a global protest - more useful that talk

WSF is an opportunity to see each other and make tourism?

WSF in Tunisia good points and also bad points - was a nearly touristic event

40 km from Tunis there are women that earn breakfast cost in Zurich

 Recall the visit in Sidi Bouzid

 Family of martyrs

Would have been more useful

Hope charter will change, when do we work on the ground

[18:54:51] @52 Vittorio

Gus document is interesting, but optimistic

 This is not crisis of capitalism, just a new step of concentration

 20% control 80 %, now 8% are controlling 82% banks, in Switzerland

 International organized crime is inside financial system

 In Europe - economic and financial thinking of conservatisms and socialists have same options

We lost big opportunity because we had been the first global movement in 2001

 When the crisis happened we were not able to do anything

In Italy poverty is growing up and left social movement is not able to organize my enemy is my neighbor, there is no alliance Risk of extreme right Formal democracy

Important to link local situation with global problem :African people should discuss negative impact of EPA /APE, Social desertification in Europe linked to tafta

i hope that tomorrow we can take some action about peace - we cannot forget 2003 - now the pope is speaking and we are silent

we will be full of global war

[19:00:49] @53Hassania

[19:01:11] @54 Azza

Fmat : built by forum dynamics on agrarian reform

Food insecurity is linked to lack of access to productive resource

FMAT end of 2015 Acterre fao and many organizations

There will be a debate

Access and usage of land resources 4 axes

Comparing efficiency of various models

Articulation proposed with WSF, fmat follow up of WSF

[19:05:28] @55 Samuel

What is the reason for being stalled ?

we have difficulty to “reduce our northern consumption while upgrading living condition in the south”, this is a good challenge that my generation will have to face

Organizations hate risk while new movement have a greater tolerance ti risk technological and organizational

 For international council there is incapacity to have groups taking initiative

 It would be simple to have a Paypal account to receive money. it is not done because there is no one doing it

 It is just a challenge find people that understand these technologies accept new people with a difference of language and strategy perspective

Stay optimistic as there is no other way

[19:09:43] @56 Ayman

Speaking of protest in Tunisian

starting before French colonization

After three year social movement continue hela education etc

What is alarming

i hop there wil be movement in order to answer - go from protest to program

when speaking of WSF - protest against eocnomgy and social right

be active in wsf is in direct relation with wider public - WSF should look for solution a d technqe on inlcude all

 new generation ened a good framing as the WSF

[19:12:19] @57 Raffaella

 we will brig the contant of thise disusion for tomorrow dzbate

: we have to pay our room


[21:50:28] Mallory : mallory we will bring sometime the iban code of FTDES for a wire transfer


November 1st

 [02:12:30] gina: Dear all, only now I can follow, thanks Pierre for this effort!!!

[08:21:59] Azril: Starting 1 november..."Podemos" is an emerging new movement/party that should be present at WSF 2015 as well as the "Asamblea de los Pueblos" from Perú, amONG other like the chain of protests in Mexico about the massacre of students in Iguala. Extractivism remains a powerful way to articulate environmental and global justice movements all over the planetarian place.I believe that non-violence could be updated in terms of the "Holy Peace" envisioned by KG Hammar (former archbishop in Sweden) added to actual training workshop on non-violence and civil disobedience. Abrazos matinales. Azril

[09:23:09] IC extension: hello hola Gina

[09:31:04] starting presentation round

Left side














Souha iah Tunisie

(censing notes are incomplete)


right side

marbendana université manoubea

Annie novox

Genevieve attac

Gus crid franz fanon

Christian transform

Hassania fma femnet

Danny sinfoma

Solange road raffela

Brahim cadtm marco

Chaima comisionvoonair

Souhayla manda

aimet mahmpou

sifen comité bénévole

Racha comité femme

Dia ltdh


Hechmi dustouna

Chabit udc

Anou uget



Juliette impa aitc

Hamouda cuoture fsm

Pascale crid

Paul forium parelemenairemondail gue

FTDES kairouan

Zina FTDES kaserine


UGTT Tunisie

Mahen centre FTDES kairouan



 ltdh Tunis

 [09:42:53] @58 president of league of human rights

 (could not take notes) ..... frustration

[09:42:53] @59 Intervention of a newly elected deputy

(could not take notes

[09:54:47] @60 Raffaela - reading the call for Kurdish

 in English

(circulating a text to be signed by members and participants – not in the name of IC)


 [10:01:27] @61Genevieve -solidarity with Testet

 One casualty 21 year old killed by a grenade by the police in a demonstration against an absurd dam

 Express solidarity - destruction of damp zone

Remi is dead after a non violent gathering of 5000 people

one year before COP21 we ask government to stop absurd project

illustrated radicalization of elites in the capture of resources

(circulating a text to be signed by members and participants – not in the name of IC)

[10:09:53] @62 Solange

About Burkina and depart of blaise compaore

(circulating a text to be signed by members and participants – not in the name of IC)


[10:12:53] @63 Rita about Palestine

[10:16:53] @64 Youssef about Palestine

[10:20:02] @65 Moema

last two interventions are more complex proposals, that require a decision from IC need to be discussed later

[10:20:07]@66 Hector

in English

Mexico 43 students out of 20000 disappeared


[10:23:14] IC extension: good morning Giuseppe

[10:27:51] @67 Rafaella

Only the beginning of debate

not an attempt for a synthesis of yesterday

More debate and investigate differences that can be richness

Short lines are e remember of what we discussed yesterday

 Recall our discussion

Discussion about future of forum is strictly connected

Only a recall

1/ we are facing a great offensive very heavy and strong of finance capitalism

using the neoliberal crisis ad old geopolitical balance to destroy right and democracy that affirms dignity to privatize public space and politicians

 2/ resistance are everywhere too by organized civil society

political social and cultural movements

building elements of new anti-systemic vision

3/ despite all this we feel we are weaker than it is needed, we suffer from fragmentation and dispersion different crisis in different regions

We are trapped in our local dimension of crises and not able to improve common strategy and alliance to be effective not at the level which the war would need

Suffer from a lack of clear of strong proposals from progressive politics

Big part have accepted to be part of the system

This produced empty space and lot of monsters can grow up

 war between poor racism fundamentalism everywhere affecting people that should be on our side

 Compared to ten years ago we are much more numerous and no so anti also

 We have to take or own responsibilities

: :)

[10:37:40] @68 Damien

This is not a summary, this is an interpretation does not

This is an intervention - i understand Rafaella

but this is a view point, this is not representing what was said yesterday

[10:39:17] @69 Hamouda

Be positive, keep hope, have a dream

There was Tricontinental, Bandung, many positive things, Seattle Quebec

We do not have resources to communicate between ourselves

Paper on secretariat: there was no return

if we go on this way, i will hang up


[10:43:55] @70 Chico

Open debate after reflection with Gina and Giuseppe Raise questions

World has changed

in 2001 we discover we were many and too divided, and we had a mutual acknowledgment process, go beyond bureaucracies, give voice to voiceless, towards new political culture

time is passing world has changed

More articulation but far from having reached some part of the world

Many place have not received the message that another world is possible

And even less have received the message that a new political culture is possible

it became a process :not the WSF event the WSF process

Forums have multiplied – local and recently thematic

What is it we experiment now - on one side the strength of thematic and local forums

Am enthusiastic about a thematic social forum on nuclear energy in Japan it is a strong idea

The strength of this forum idea is ongoing

What is problematic is the world social forum : where? Why? How? Who?

We have problems in our IC : IC was more linked to WSF than to WSF process

The website gave information, but was only engaged in WSF

As WSF forum are in a problematic state, IC is also in problematic state

We must no conceal the problem

This IC meeting is nice, but there are few members present

IC and WSF are a problem

 Enemies would say exhaustion i say problem

What are the problem

Many view point to launch discussion Moema Gina Giuseppe

i launch two perspectives

Process perspective - must be continuing, no one can interrupt this

if we are to continue process, IC must be able to help

We do not lack strategy of WSF, what is lacking is general strategy of movements

 In front of power that is in people’s head

strategy of global social movement is lacking

 Define one to overcome capitalism in current situation

if we get to this, we find aging a role for WSF event in this strategy

What is the role of this event

 Many things have been achieved

Find a new role in this new reality

in this strategy

Great priority is this - weakness of system is this

How to make a strategy?

Have a good seminar on this before and during WSF 2015

Thematic world social forum on strategy for overcoming capitalism

Make a seminar

 i have not combined anything with Annie who is co chairing this sequence

Open debate without prejudice, think and find the new path

or movement find a strategy towards overcoming of capitalism, or WSF event stays “in the air”




[11:06:15] @71 Annie

Novox movement is a baby of the WSF, it started against the way WSF is organized

Objective to give place to voiceless in the forum

Academic form

we managed somehow, we got to a stand on the form

Something we do not understand

Yesterday we saw

1/ a difference between movement is the way to manage time

Invent new rights to conquer - needs being acknowledged and immediate visibility in the forum

 2/ another world is possible tomorrow far away

It is difficult to be heard: “buen vivir” is far away, and Ideological war will be long

Answer at the same time to expression of movement that struggle for their rights

and 2/ we bear a philosophical ideal

Combine this two times

Why not go back

We have messed up

Why have we stopped about polycentric forums?

We reinvent regional and continental forums

We have lost many movements for simple reason : it is expensive to be in a social forum

 it is easier to take a bus to a regional forum, or set up caravans

go to people live instead of calling them to come in an event

self organizing of a political route

 on thematic forums there were some achievement but they did not enrich WSF with their dynamics: migration and democracy and science

but other ....

How will we manage tomorrow?

Difficult that we do not trust in an elite corps

 We distrust movement we do not know this fear

 inclusive strategy

 we are most into middle class movement let us face it, while forum should carry all dimensions

3/ we fix new ways and new norms : associate movements in the design of campaign

4/ last problem - how to proceed

 i am happy to be in Tunis - in solidarity of a democratic process that is enough for me

[11:10:15] Break

 Break and solidarity photo with Kobane and french struggle on Testet dam

[11:40:15] @72 Mohieddine

Could not take notes

[11:50:15] @73 X Paperless

Could not take notes

 [11:58:24] @74 Francisco

Let us accept what we are

Why have a discussion on this

What Chico propose about strategy discussion, this is a need but this is overemphasizing what we are

From a modest gathering

take what we are, do what we can

[11:59:38] @75 Francine

 On social rights and social protection

Many project applauded are compatible with neoliberalism

[12:09:33] @76 Raphael

 Forum Articulate two times : socialization of youth and convergence in the organizing process

[12:11:52] @77 Nathalie

Our discussion are not alimented by new political culture in IC

We have not implemented any of our decisions so we are not up to the challenges

[12:18:55] @78 Fathi


[12:19:06] IC extension: (lost with stream)

[12:19:09] @79Taofik

There is assessment in what is being said - make it explicit

Make assessment more directly: IC is routine we waste resources

In 2004 2006 great effort of opening and expansion

some people had taken

[12:27:58] @80 Pierre

 Agree that IC is ill positioned and tied to WSF event while at the same time irresponsible , but we can View IC as secretariat of WSF process, this means that organizations dedicate resources staff or volunteers to take charge of practical tasks to keep the process visible to itself and running

[12:29:44] @81 Carminda

 we still need a WSF we will show some ideas

[12:30:26] @82 Mohamed

 (culture commission) Everybody agrees WSF is made of social movement some leave the forum why ?

 some ideas have been emitted but we do not see how to implement

[12:34:35] @83 Cesare

[12:34:47] we were enthusiasts in 2001

Capitalism is still there and alterglobalism too

if we dissolve IC will alterglobalism disappear ? I think not

 People in Tunisia have asked to host forum to have an incidence

Support to systemic changes: there is need of a new structure

so that WSF is not a simple school but have an incidence

 Decide actions not propose them

Movement that do not praise enough added value for WSF efficiency for change

[12:38:30] @84 Vittorio

New movements emerge in WSF then walk away by themselves

WSF cannot be like a market fair without direction

Which are our enemies?

we need to organize actions against these

Convergence assembly is not enough

Choose 3 points and call everyone to do something together: eg financial speculation

[12:43:42] @85 Roger

 1/ Social forum - not a word windmill

many movements in Canada ignored WSF and we have interested some of them in WSF

 2/ student movement “carre rouge” and “idle no more”, we search systematically for their representatives to be spokesperson for PSF on those issues

We have innovate about structures: we have set up regional committee in 15 cities

We have set up caucus that have veto right on PSF

Caucus of Quebec, women, colored people etc

This allowed each force to impose thematic and struggles

This may not be a general model, in midterm US war is preparing a WSF grouping people from middle east people could help

Pipeline battle is involving hundreds of thousands of young

[12:48:42] @86 Brahim

We feel energy of WSF has been lost

Participation and visibility have gone down

Participation of WSF against capitalism - capitalism has gone beyond

find other areas of militancy that are more efficient than WSF

: sense of crisis that need to be overcome

broth of discussion reinventing the forum

WSF is the only place

1/ we speak about dynamics of forum re integrating movements

how ??

 as Chico said invest in debates that give

 2/WSF must develop and review structure

: Initiative space, not just debate

 demonstration about iraq in 2003

 but in 2015 which concrete initiatives? Libya?

[12:53:13] @87 Hector

not good two long presentation at the start and small ones afterwards

we are at the opening of a new cycle, and we have not enough answers

Hemispheric social alliance from Canada to Argentina

 in this new period

 Nothing is re-adaptable in an automatic way and nothing lasting forever

Need to discuss in a rational way what we are facing

Is WSF useful? Does it have impact?

need to grow and rescue fundamental things


Will movement who went to meet with the pope come?

many networks and appointments

 Why would they come to WSF?

[13:01:32] @88 Halima

I join in a bizarre discussion: i feel people reduce WSF to international IC: This is problem of what is called IC

To my understanding WSF goes beyond this: it is this dream that motivates movements that felt something deep uniting them

 faced to war machinery and greedy capitalism - people have resisted no to war polution

 Victims are moving against trusts and mafias

 we felt the international mafia in the region

 This conflict cannot be explained only by local people action, also those producing arms are part of it

 i am part of women dynamics, feminization of poverty

WSF may not be the ideal form to accompany

dynamics are here women

 this form of IC may be cannot accompany movements

[13:05:41] @89 Leonardo

I hear the words articulation converge synergy cooperation etc

other words: Youth north future

[13:12:32] @90 Liege

: ...

[13:14:54] @91 Rafaella

i think WSF is necessary: find a new step

Useful not for us, but for alternative movements

Take seriously in consideration what Chico said at the end

after Tunisia, we shoudl decide to propose a big seminar on the strategy of alternative social movements inviting everywhere to be part of the preparation of the seminar

Which can help

proposal to be discussed step of discontinuity which does not close our history but help not to go on in a tired way

[13:17:12] @92 Genevieve

we have a final crisis of both social democracy reformist and radical branches, and we are part of this crisis in IC

First intervention remain in radical social democracy

We will be exhausted if we remain

I am sure that WSF and IC are part of this future

What would be the world if there were no struggles

We can invert our look: if we reason in terms of central power conquest we have lost

We can form is making visible what is invisible

 if we look for power this looks miserable and it is not

 Because powers repress strongly this

 it is vital that in IC na social forum all that is for climatic justice

 they need to be represented in WSF and we missed this here

[13:21:00] @93 Abdelhafidh

Bring my Testimony : WSF brought a lot to us in Tunisia

 in its actual form it is important and efficient

No reason to be pessimistic: we are a concrete case

i have not enough time to list the advances in social thinking etc that we capitalize

 Before WSF few people knew WSF in Tunisia now people talk about it

its exhaustion is not the case it is our head that we see that this form is not enough to break dominations

This is a realistic view

 we are in the phase of reflex ion and Drawbacks can be improved

 i advise IC to get modern ways to collect info and assemsen

 it is not forbidden to use technique to promote social aims

 i call for a platform people to give opinion

 put in place mechanisms

[13:26:06] @94 Mokhtar


 5000 student that have no place to sleep

 more networking needed to have results

[13:29:04] @95 Moema

 Forum is useful, otherwise we would be in the swimming pool nearby : we think this we who are here

The question is that the one that left and those who do not feel like coming

How many of the social movement invited by the pope are here? one : novox

We have discussed Francine Gina Giuseppe have given efefort

 It is not true what liege says

 I agree with Hector that we are at the end of a cycle

 Agree with Francisco not pretend to be all, but try to be more than now

 Agree with Chico -to have a strategy seminar and Prepare it quite well

Invite the key social movements

Seminar or forum about forum

Hamouda is making a summary of key elements of discussion with good methodology

What could be the good suggestion for the service of movement for another posible world

Hamouda will highlight points

[13:39:18] Lunch break back in 1h30mn

[15:28:30] Azril: The proposal to have a preparatory seminar and organizational meeting sounds very sound, to appraise both what we have learned from the "first cycle" and to explore and develop our next steps. There is no other space like the WSF to meet, listen, learn and support each other in our own challenges and struggles, still sharing our charter of principles to begin with. The UN System is clearly not the place. The rich have the World Economic Forum in Davos, the Peoples and their social movements have the WSF - or?

[15:34:33] IC extension: hello

[15:37:27] Giuseppe : welcome back Pierre!

[15:40:02] IC extension: soon starting esperanza efessem part 5 on air

 [15:43:41] @96 Hamouda

Maintain WSF as a convergence place

solidarity for action s

Review other

(could not take notes)

[15:53:53] @97 Francisco

 Why postpone again ?

[15:54:09] @98 Damien

[15:54:12] @99 Moema

Question of IC is not dissociable

Inviting people that are not here

In the meanwhile, this is the IC that we have

Proposal coming from Chico

Have a deeper debate from the reality of movements

Up to now the proposal we have are not realistic

[15:55:51] @100 Francine

We receive tomorrow morning from Chico a proposal for a strategic seminar

We take into account what has been discussed

Not coming from the sky

[15:58:44] @101Francisco

Makes no sense


[15:59:16] IC extension: starting again part6 sound "ok"

[15:59:36] @102Taofik

No fundamental contradiction

This seminar has sense if he gets to concrete proposal and WSF proves adapted to WSF context

[16:00:38] @103 Diakalia

We wait tomorrow for proposal from Chico


[16:01:19] IC extension: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvAMgExMRV4

About Secretariat of IC

 [16:02:22] @104Taofik

 It was decided to transfer secretariat to Maghreb placed in FTDES


[16:04:43] Meena : The strategy seminar is a very good idea. Is it to happen before the event in Tunis or before?

[16:05:29] IC extension: i think after we will know better tomorrow

[16:05:38] Giuseppe : Meena the full proposal will be made tomorrow but i the idea is to have it during the forum

[16:06:02] Meena : ok good

[16:06:35] IC extension: if you want to intervene in the discussion you are welcome to tell me and write a few lines i will read them when your turn comes

[16:06:56] Giuseppe : thanks for this too Pierre!

[16:04:04] @105 Liege

 How does the secretariat operate?

(Liege said thre was no information about the new secretariat)

[16:07:59] @106 Moema

 Agrees that there is no much concrete about it

 We do not know with who we communicate

 Leave this meeting with concrete information

[16:08:57] @107 Diakalia

Friends from Tunis, where and who is the secretariat?

[16:09:54] @108 Mohieddine

We expected the IC to define tasks

We have answered since Casablanca that we agree to take charge of secretariat

We know how it costs

We will welcome the person

 IC should define tasks and how to work


[16:10:56] Meena : I shall comment when Chico has made his proposal. He is makign it right?

[16:11:09] IC extension: he wil make this timorrow meena

[16:11:39] Meena : ok

[16:12:04] @109 Gus

In Ottawa 20 January? we discussed secretariat

In the paper sent by Hamouda are some inputs about secretariat

1/list of 6 tasks - 6

1/ follow the mailing lists of IC, they are not updated

2/ website

3 / WSF preparation

 4/ info

 5/ follow of process events 40 per year

 6/ active memory of WSF

Do we retain those 6 tasks ? who is volunteering for those tasks?

1 and 2 from Tunis and one person in Tunis


[16:16:19] IC extension: (restarting video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeIkswF9fRw

 [16:17:00] @110 Francisco

 Which legal structure will have the secretariat?

[16:19:13] @111Taofik

Helio was putting in contact the various dynamics and that was interesting

FTDES can be legal representation of secretariat

There can be other entities co managing it - Brazilian expression can be added: etc

finance responsibility is FTDES

[16:21:05] @112 Rita

We rushed in the decision to move secretariat to Tunis there was no demand for that either in Tunis or in brazil: and did not debate and inform

The 3rd task (WSF preparation?) - is beyond scope bureau is secretariat -IC in crisis

We should have made it in a better way

Organizations in brazil are working in memory project they cannot …

[16:24:52] @113 Hassania

We trusted the Brazilians, and we lost track

Concrete proposal we need a new secretariat change concept

Other concept and other people

[16:29:51] @114 Moema

Proposes a meeting on this tonight

Rita working on Memory until to have a proper documentation and transfer

Working plan

[16:33:36] @115 Pierre

 1/ secretariat should work in conjunction of working groups with IC members that contribute to making a secretariat of the process ( eg – WSFcalendar group started in Dhaka, and possibly memory group defined in Casablanca)

These group could coordinate Contribution from IC organizations to the visibility and dissemination of the process

2/ openFSM website is an asset of IC, with 500 autonomous spaces, 3000 people with accounts and thousands more in mailing lists that IC supported in a statement in Casablanca

[16:34:46] @116 Mohieddine

 we are preparing an organigram

[16:35:15] @117 Diakalia

Meeting tonight


Pierre volunteered to support for the WSF calendar and openfsm

 About Montreal forum

[16:36:52] @118 Raphael

status of Montreal preparation process

From the start for us organization process is conceived as a solution to the crisis of renewal of WSF

for us WSF is a mean - process is as important as event

 Our objective is to favor convergence and energies

our commitment

build a organizational process wide and inclusive

Connect social forum together

 3/ how to make link between WSF and new movements emerging

we carry our initiative since Tunis, since may 2013 we are not another dynamics which is PSF

 we participate in this process

 in December Casablanca meeting, There was acceptance of commitment of collect to work towards WSF 2016 in Montreal

We connected to a series of movement

it is fundamental that we put in place mechanism of getting closer - extended or

[16:39:52] @119 Carminda

We had contacts with Iraq, - Egypt ,- borj cedria Youth- Sarajevo 30 people - forum des peoples canada - forum locaux quebec bas st Laurent, African social forum

[16:42:11] @120 Samuel + Raphael

Dynamics for participation of western African participation ask for your support

Encounter of new social movement indignados and Agora 99 in Istanbul

we believe it is possible to be present through internet and in person

our commitment to WSF process goes through getting closer with WSF - we are preparing 100 people delegation from Quebec with strong trade union and Indian and students

we want also logistical continuity between WSF - delegation with public officers of airport and city

Capitalize on organization of WSF we want to collaborate with Tunisian

 This delegation will come to Tunis

 Also we have let a collaborative

USSF decentralize forum might have an antenna in Montreal June 15

we have been present all encounters of expansion in PSF

we have supported strategy of visibility of PSF - slowing our WSF mobilization at the request of PSF

we are eager to collaborate with PSF

We want to support pan-Canadian mobilizations

we make a report of our links to dynamics form PSF in next IC

we have a document of account for PSF and

[16:48:09] @121 Samuel

 giving supporter list

325000 members network around those groups 1;2 millions of people according to a survey on 30% of our support

[we believe we have

we are listening on challenges set by alternatives

[16:51:23] @122 Roger

 Thanks for this right to answer

I acknowledge the work and i know Raphael and Carminda

we will go on working with them

if we got to

so far no consensus

am not against the principle

2 unions out of 3 women federation student radical have not joined

work towards Anglophones has not been made - unions indigenous

will give the floor to Youssef from uniform trade union

We do not close the door

we propose the decision to be postponed

we propose an attempt of convergence and report be made in IC Tunis and discussion with Canadian delegation present in Tunis

Let us make sure that political and organization conditions are met


[16:55:36] IC extension: (video is reset)

[16:58:14] @123 Youssef

I am from UNIFORM,I have worked for PSF and worked on march with FTQ CSN, and I never heard of WSF 2016

CSN  is not supportive FTQ will not give money

Outreach work of brothers and sisters has not been done in Anglophone Canada

We are not publicly against

We need a plan

92% of PSF money came from trade unions

We had lunch together with wsf2016 collective and did not take out knives

i proposed that we meet for labor caucus and get feedback from them and wait until Tunis 2015

Uniform will be here, sit and talk about a plan a make sure everything is in place to have a successful event

[17:01:34] break 15mn

[17:20:51] resuming

[17:21:01] @124 Diakalia

We want to go to Canada, There are some obstacle to move, so Canada is not a nightmare but a moment of relief

 [17:23:14] @125Taofik

 i have the experience of such debates - i believe the same debate is necessary

 in Casablanca recalling what was agreed: a new cooperation process between south and north

( reading the Casablanca decision)

Since then,  PSF and steps  We can only call to further discussion. We need to be assured that more discussion take place

 This forum is an essential asset to face a right government and indigenous and trade unions that ask to be included in the process.  i find this positive.  IC would be reassured

[17:27:37] @126 Chaima

 Am against reporting decision as was done in Casablanca where formulation was diplomatic

 Roger said that bigger organization have not signed and mentioned Tunisia as example

only some big association could face dictatorship

 youth dynamics supports Montreal

[17:31:21] @127 Nathalie

New political culture consensus is a key point. We need a good dialogue and cannot postpone afer Tunis. Since 2007 we are on a WSF each two years and it was a good rhythm

3/ visa questions

[17:35:22] @128 Chico

 We cannot go back on Casablanca and have no legitimacy in this meeting to change the decision

 We never asked for unanimity to create a forum

 we need to

 First forum in the north is a challenge

Visa is a front of struggle political goal

It is a forum fundamentally organized by youth who take lead

Have this experience

As a youth i said this as an immense view

Will be organized by youth group

bet eyes

let us hope they succeed


[17:40:24] @129 Rita


[17:41:17] @130 Hector

 Very important and old partners of WSF that are not involved in the current wsf2016 process

We cannot ignore this situation and need to wait for Tunis WSF IC meeting

[17:42:52]@131 Diakalia

 « si jeunesse savait et si vieillesse pouvait » -«  if youth knew and if Oldness could »

 First dynamics by youth - Make room to youth

 Would be difficult to question Casablanca decision;  in term of representativity we are not qualified in capacity to make a decision

[17:45:38] @132 Damien

is questioning the synthesis made by Diakalia

i have a concern for including participation

it is not correct to postpone if we are not qualified to make a decision - so we continue

Let us be logical on decision process

[17:47:17] @133 Diakalia

i withdraw the word “capacity”

[17:47:30] @134 Hamouda

 a decision was made in Casablanca with some qualifications

Put more energy on wsf2015 - and that whenever possible before Tunis they talk and give the decision,  we also suggested 2017 date in Montreal meeting

[17:50:22] @135 Rafaela

Recall the decision we took in Casablanca: i was the one writing it

At the end we found consensus on the idea

We have the WSF 2015 and we accept the commitment of Quebec to work towards - we did not decide WSF2016. The only thing we can do is ask them to go on working

[17:52:58] @136 Raphael

We heard about 2017 in Montreal meeting in august and we have explored this with Montreal in 2017 –it is a no go,because it is all booked for 375 anniversary of the city

You have access for support in 2016 and 10 people delegation from city coming to Tunis

 They give us many things metro youth camp universities. So  i would close this door on 2017

Come back on what Damien said

 it is not a proposal, it is organizing an event: that is what was decided in Casablanca

We are in dialogue process and extend a hand

 We made a convergence assembly in PSF about convergences towards WSF2017 a good occasion of dialogue

I want to underline:  we have a strategy we have a 15 page document

 We have a collective of law student that want to work on the visa issue

 it is evident that we need to work on indigenous

 We strengthen we extend the hand

 How we can include you according to your demands

 We cannot go back on 2016

[17:58:29] @137 Roger

I appreciate the difficulty of this debate: a difficult situation

This decision does not imply a WSF event in Montreal

it is legitimate about lawyers discussion

My comrade Raphael has developed logistical view point and it is an excellent job, but this does not settle the political situation of consensus among social movements

 we cannot leverage logistics to institutional logic or movements logic

 it is prudent and relevant

[18:01:20] @138 Diakalia

 it was a WSF event in casablanca

mohieddine chico damien

vittorio zied

[18:03:20] @139 Mouhieddine

Roger you proposed a way, give a way to dialogue

We will stay to this mechanics of dialogue

[18:05:54] @140 Chico

 Lawyer discussion has no place here -

 Common sense what do you want

Stimulated by word of youth

 Stimulate and help them and not  block them

 Understanding your argument

 Make an effort to get to a consensus before March

 if not well see in march

[18:07:56] @141 Vittorio

I am worried that we discuss of the role of IC

we not discussing about WSF 2015 which is crucial for us

 it is clear for everybody that 2016

as a doctor I say we have schizophrenic way of discussion

[18:10:42] @142 zied

Supporting Montreal

[18:11:06] @143 Damien

 i coordinated the table in Casablanca with Raffaella

made a long report in Portuguese 21 about the decision

[18:13:49] @144 Taofik

 Common sense should lead us - whatever the ambiguity of Casablanca this youth group has worked and we have other voices in Canada asking for dialogue

Please continue to dialogue and come in March with a consensus involving main forces of Canada

[18:19:06] @145 Leonardo

agree with damien

[18:19:12] @146 Hector

[18:19:14] IC extension: (lost)

November 2nd

Commissions groups held in the morning 9-11


 soon starting after 9 simultaneous group meeting which made it impossible to stream



 Come back on methodology

 Chico proposal on international seminar to renew forum dynamics

 Communication from Canadians

[11:07:19] @147 Chico

 People and organization who signs this declaration - invite mutually to a meeting in Tunis just after WSF2015

in a seminar to answer the following question

 facing the growing power ..... what must we do to make our struggle more efficient

: People who sign this proposal - can disseminate it - participate in the meeting during the meeting - participation organize this meeting

 we will discuss at least in WSF

 When? Where? How? to organize which steps of preparation - how should it be named?

 What draft give to generation invitation for this world encounter

 How to enlarge at max participation and organization of this meeting

Those who will come to the technical seminar in February will have possibility to prepare this meeting in WSF

 Send their Raffaellea and Hamouda

Those who sign consider this will influence WSF event to make it more adequate to world reality

[11:17:19] @148 Francine

 repeat the question

globalised capitalism currently in total war against life and democracy

[11:17:59] IC extension: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmXpCVUaCTQ

[11:18:52] @149 Amelie

 Methodology Document is approved

[11:19:08] @150 Taofik

 Restitution on methodology

1/ women assembly on opening of WSF 24

2/ march

Reading the document (trying to improve the sound)

 Website opening 15 November

15 nov - 10 January


[11:28:58] Giuseppe : thanks Pierre the sound is quite ok now... it would be nice to have that document...

[11:29:16] @151 Roger

reading a statement

Quebec and Canada present in IC meeting pledge

 2- Delegate pledge to ..

3/ q & c reoncifmer support WSF2015

4/ detailed report latest march 2015 on a potential WSF 2016

 signed by Roger- Feroz – and Youssef uniform


[11:32:44] Giuseppe : who speaks now? after Roger?

[11:34:11] IC extension: Raphael from WSF2016 collective

[11:34:23] Giuseppe : thanks!

[11:32:16] @152 Raphael

reading another statement

 [11:35:19] @153 Mohieddine

if you have ideas about organization of WSF ...

[11:41:23] @154 Halima - women

[11:41:25] @155 Francine

[11:41:33] @156 Moema

Seminar will take place after the IC

[11:42:30] @157 Patrice

 I am not legitimate to speak in this IC - bridge initiative

we had invited - table of controversy in 2001

Was a trend then to be in WSF, now totally gone

in WSF2013 we did not perceive the message of WSF - how to make visible?

i started talking with Mohieddine

The route of WSF since begin

Awareness of the forum contribute and what is left to tread

 Lula - find interlocutors - who have trodden a long path as he did

 it may be a proposal if we work together

[11:46:40] @158 Cesare


[11:48:49] @159 Ala

from NoMad 08

He is talking about the materials that they have for the interpretation

The mobiles phones to use and other

Anyway, they do have a small problem which is they need to buy as soon as possible 2 receptors to use for the communication

[11:50:30] @160 Youth commission

They propose a national conference on the morning of 24 march the propose to add a page for youth into the website

They propose to create a communication between the logistic commissions to prepare an agenda for the events that they want to organize

Youth is to the most attractive, passionate people who will be present into the forum, and we will work with our partners to contribute for a better participation of youth in the world

[11:54:28] @161 Pierre :

Suggest to Nomad to provide output from interpreter booth so it can be used as sound for the streaming

From Extension Commission

we thanks the OC for their decision to have a commission created for the extension , and just to mention that Sofien will be the referent in Tunisia for the commission

[11:56 :28] @162 Representative from the communication commission:

They propose to add the Portuguese language into the website

The question of the logo now !  A lot of people have been talking and they didn't like the new one, but we are proposing a new one even that we think it's already taking as a decision ! so its for you to decide very fast at least but anyway we will be using this version for now

[11:58 :28] @163  About the mobilization ( Mohamed?)

We are working to ensure that everyone will be able to participate into it, we will try to include all the actors of the Tunisian civil society

About the immigration problem, we will have a forum specifically done for this problematic because it's been creating a lot of problems

[12:05 :28] @164 Volunteer commission :

There will be training for some volunteers who have been working into the FSM 2013

And who wants to do it again in 2015

We want that the volunteers be more active and present into the processes of preparation of the FSM.They are already present here today and they will be there in the other commission

[12:11:08] @165Taoufik :

Talking about a fact that could makes the forum either a failure or a success

This is the international mobilization

we need to be aware of it and we have to work to have as many people as we can for the world supporting as here in Tunis to be better representative and be a power that no one will be able to stop

[12:17:25] @166 Amal :

Commission for the handicapped people

They created a group of 30 people who will take in charge the visibility of this commission, the want to have a page dedicated for this commission

Their demands are :

Giving a better access to handicapped people into the site of the forum

Give a better access to those people into the marches that will take place

They would like to have more volunteers to work with them

[12:20:27] @167 Culture commission :

They would like to have a meeting with the communication commission, so they can understand their strategy, and so they probably include their activities into it

They developed a charter where they list some conditions for those artists who wants to participate

[12:27:56] @168 Mohamed

Talking about the website :

Technical stuff : this is official link www.fsm2015.org

For the inscription will be done via the website, but with the same techniques that they have been done before for the payment into the website

We will be working more to make it a better experience for us all

[12:30:39] @169 Laasad : Logistic coordinator

The logistic task is very related with the government Tunisian government

Anyway, there have been meetings via 2 commissions , and the government was there, and they accepted to be a part of the organization of the second FSM in Tunis

For so, there will be some work into the site, to prepare the accessibility for the handicapped people

We also talked about security , and we are working with the responsible for this and we will have as last time a secured FSM

 We will be publishing all the conventions with the government into the website

There are a question that have been asked in many occasions, talking about if the second government is ready to take in charge the preparation of the second FSM

 to respond to this , we ensure you all that we had the confirmation to keep the FSM one of the priorities

[12:37:38] @170 Zied :

The Youth section, present their proposal of creation an assembly for youth who will be talking about the right of having a free society with all the difference that could be including it

 Proposition, to use the website of the FSM2015 as a place to share in it some things that have been shared in the websites of other organizations

[12:37:38] @171Genevieve? :

The climate change , is one of the problematic that have to be presented into the FSM

[12:44:54] @172Pierre

Would like to share with you all the new baby of the WSF Extension; the WSF CAFE

 it's personal, individual and everyone can participate in it


for all member of the IC there is a list where we diffuse the tasks that could be done and have to be done to prepare the FSM  Also present the space preparation international http://openfsm.net/projects/fsm2015wsf-prepint  which gather useful information



[12:44:54] Giuseppe- Gina

 [12:55:58] Giuseppe : Pierre can you say to the IC meeting that i wish to acknowledge your work and how that has allowed me and others to actually be there present virtually!

 with my greetings and wishes to all! thanks

[13:12:05] Gina: Hola, I also want to say the same. I could follow the discussions and have an idea of what is happening without being there! Thanks Pierre and all the team.

[13:56:25] Gustavo ottawa: Thanks, Pierre and all, this is good information.

November 4th


You are all welcome - thanks for you thanks - i could not convey your message in the meeting as everyone went to lunch and pack - so it could be good to send a message and the IC list or the international preparation list

 please note that you could intervene and make inputs in the discusson, through chat and event audio ( as a third computer was ready for this ) during all those three days , this is a next step of tele participation that you can use effectively in a next opportunity

[08:01:03] Azril

Hello Hamouda and comrades. Trying to think strategically about possible sessions for WSF 2015: (1) Training workshop on Non-Violence and Civil Disobedience, (2) (Follow-Up) Dialogue between Religions, Ethics, Cultures and Civilizations" (3) On (mis)Management of Nuclear Waste (Tore , japanese environmental activist who moved with his family to Sweden after Fukushima, as proposed Key Speaker). Abrazo. Azril

[12:53:32] Gustavo ottawa: (1) & (2) are excellent

[14:19:45] Meena :

Thank you Pierre and team. This has been so very helpful. Cheers. See you in Tunis!

 Pierre when is the seminar planned? Just after the Forum in Tunis or during?

[22:44:04] IC extension: thanks Meena - it is not clear yet ... will investigate