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last modified October 8, 2011 by facilitfsm

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2011-09-30-ivry-msf-212.JPG  the meeting was broadcasted live with ustream (right side computer and the webcam fixed on top of the water bottle between the two computers - the left side computer is for checking the received image and sound throught internet and to stimulate the associated skype chatroom 

see videos and notes of 27th september

  • WSF IC intercom meeting Amed 09/26/11 07:59AMWSF IC intercom...  presentation of events  1h40mn 

  • Note of  intercom meeting amed 26

  • index

    Discussion on agenda. 1

    Info on Tunisia meeting  in September. 1

    Contributions made since paris. 2

    Gina :  evaluation of wsf 2011. 3

    Pierre :  guiding principles and  OE spaces. 3

    Francine  - intervention sur les axes stratégique. 3

    Moema. 3

    Hamouda : 4

    three points proposed  by helio : 4

    Interpreters viewpoint  -. 4

    Round of presentation. 5

    Rafaela  - 3 points brought by helio  this morning. 6

    Start on the resources we have in our hands in these process – resources are the events planned  in the coming monthes. 6

    Galizia. 6

    Where will be the spring 2012 IC meeting. 7

    Michel on Canada  Queec first nations. 7

    Moema  -on rio °20. 8

    Aala  on fsmm process. 9

    Maren on palesitne  : 9

    Rafaella  - the list of events is not complete. 10

    Tomorrow  organization  - connection con luchas y plata. 10


      WSF IC intercom meeting Amed 09/26/11 02:44AMWSF IC intercom...  2 hours

    Discussion on agenda

    Gina : mas tiempo  para intercomision

    Hamouda : iniciar con comisión

    Moema : comisión are

    Rafaella : herramientas  - algunaos laboratorios de nuevas organizacio  para contruir juntos el procesos 2013

    Hamouda : l’idée de cette rencontré is that various commisisn think together how to support wsf213

    We in fsmm have created commissions and have made an intercomion of 5 people to follow with IC –

    Meeting in tunis earlyu septembre is not as Dakar – we want collegiality  - we work together but six month before wsf sao Paulo people should be in Maghreb mashrek

    Have a same vision

    We will open our fssmm commission  to msf people -  a vast region – that has many things to say

    That was the idea in paris

    Fsmm In tunis  we will have meeting of this commission  - april

    We shre this refelxion with you

    Forum in erbil on octboer 9th

    Work with Galicia social forum  -how we can have exchange galizia forum


    Info on Tunisia meeting  in September

    Moema: hamouda  maybe you can share more ideas of your tunis September meeting- what is your design – decision process

    Hamouda : we had a large discussion with Tunisian friends  -  extended mm on Africa and asia  iun april  -  if we make it bigger  we could go towards cairo in wsf2013

    We make a meeting in Egypt in November  5 people will go there -Hopefully with IC members that have interest to go there – positive signs from Cairo – there are build a technical report  on how to build and event ( helio )

    In Dhaka we will have  a clearer idea  of where –

    About thematic : we have discussed , made a work program towards dhakar and next events  -maren will speak about palstine solidarity forum

    We need time to discuss – no logo  no lemma  - no methodology

    People struggle spring –nothin concret yet

    Erdal – what shall we do now ?

    Moema :  extended magrehbe perspective   - election in the coming months  -   an application report is being made  - not possible to make a fundraising project yet

    A ample perspective onfsmm + middleeast and  secretariat

    We are in the middle of the road – no idea on themes

    May be we need to see hwo we can contribute as commissions  -

    Hamouda : what we comitt it to have a methodolgoibal docuemtn before Dhaka that people can discuss

    You will have a paper on communication  -  and a ressrouce committee need – so that in Dhaka ic there is one day commission work

    Today what is important is  to share what methogolog and commhnicacion commission  have done  in order to present thing son intercomunission in Dhaka

    How will intercomission will work together

    We want to relect with you – our paper will be ready for Dhaka

    How to mobilize  - give another life to forum if we find a way on how o work together

    When we decide to come to msf  - also to participte in the forum itself and mobilize them msf people  to come in ic

    Contributions made since paris

    Helio :  a proposal  -  since paris  there were two process active  - evaluation from Dakar  -   guiding  principles  -   Francine gina pierre may make a contribution

    Rafaella :  ok with helio  we can put things on the table , not start avoid talk

    Anyway we should generally discuss the concerns we have ,  because  I think we can create or ivent something new  here are some of the concerns

    How we can create a equilibrium  between the region and the really workwide dimension – we had this problem in dakar  - Senegalese cmittee  was saying we are alone and we said you have made it alone

    How to make a forum together

    Commission are not able to guarantee a daily work

    Comité de 5 personas  in fsmm – thi sis an interesting idea – we could make something equivalent  - we can discuss hwo to build  the office  international   - we can thing of specific groups  that connect magrhebmashrek  with the rest of the world

    Mediterranea asiatica  atlantica  - the building migh be made between groups of people representing these dynamics

    How we create the place for a daily work

    Hve another ideal dimension of the forum

    We are not oblighe to have the same axis array  for a century

    Moema  - start with what helio said


    Aala : to answer Rafaela  - we have  the idean of enlagein

    Gina :  evaluation of wsf 2011

      explain  problems encountered in dakar  -  lack of communication -  some priviliges -  assemblies  - sahrahou problem

     Recommendations  - espacio  decoodination  - generar espacios de articulation entre organizadores de foros  -

    Pierre :  guiding principles and  OE spaces

    Guia de principios  -


      espacios de intercambios  entre organisadores de eventos 


    Inviting people in the to include event organizers in the excahgne spaces 

    Francine  - intervention sur les axes stratégique

     - just started our work

    Gina :  interesting process of agglutination in 2005 2009  is demanding and vering interesting 


     4 challenges  - 1/ how to make the forum useful for the worl and the region  -  2/ advance I making form space  a tool for advancement of coordination of struggles –  we have not succeded in tht denser connection – even assembly of social movement – how the struggles in spain will be present in wsf2013 – or how the struggles in egyp will influence the building of the form – 3/ IC cou cil is a voluntary  - we are all overbooked  - 4/ fiannacial sustainability  - a ngo problem  worldwide  - money is gong to help rather than development -  process sustainability  not just event sustainability -Wsf office 2 people and a trainee –

    (silence ….)

    Erdal   about social movement – we  can discuss on movement assemblies methodology – but the most important is the forum context – in Dakar everybody was lost – I could not go to any discussion – in msf  hamouda pierre was here  - the discussion were very strong  - in the assembly they made not many questions  - in Dakar … - we can discuss there questions  with a greager council  - here in march

    Hamouda : 

    after what was said  - a challenge is to create the intercomission meeting  -  - those who came are those we are really involved in changing things in the forum -  a more concrete proposal   we know these people meet often  - and in ic  the comitt to do things  - we could go out with a core goup  - with people working in galize   palestine – Canada first nation  -   - .. and then   Gina  - may give one page of what we could discuss on  -

     we couod have  a docupent  -  galizia + methodology  - and  involve event organizer to this ofurm -  Rosario alexandre moema are involved on the palesitne forum  -  convege on a vision  - in USA young people  sieged wall street  - ……. If we do this we can go with a frame of work  -   ic meeting did not help the working people  - it is easy to criticize in the end   - even if we diverge  we are obliged to help …; forum is everybodys – when I hear that  wsf office is in precarious .. it is pitiful …when thre is no mid term perspective  - if wsf office has not perepcitv it is difficult ot evaluate it

    three points proposed  by helio :

    there  were many point rasied  - we need to organize them Gina Pierre francian Moema

    1/ a group that will be obliged towork on a more permanent way

    2/ not just discussion  on axe , how the forum can be a working place for interconnection of struggles  - axes or other ways? – Ussf based its process on assemblies that were build before and during the forum – as erdal said  if there is good discussion before the final assemblies are consensuales -  have a more general understanding about axes and assemblies

    3/ financial sustainability  - enveot and process  - are same  - for portoalegre and belem was to finance process from event – belem financed the process  -in dkar we tried but did not succeed

    Moema : have more information on what is beig preared for other evnt on our mental map

    Rafaela : agree with moema and helio ;after the meal , it would be good to inform about other processes   fourms campains actions that we think important  for mobiliazing for 2013 -  18 december migrant days –it is a red being built , -  we need to involved the – the youth of Maghreb -

    In the logistical falure of Dakar  the assemblies were good because they ware existing by themselves and had decided that wsf as a station in their route    -these new actors are involved and shape the forum  it culd solve many of the points there  -

    Erdal we stop here  for eating

    WSF IC intercom meeting Amed 09/26/11 06:15AMWSF IC intercom...  on interpretation

    Interpreters Babels viewpoint  -

     experience of Dakar  -  new system of portable low cost booths

    Disrectful – patronizing  cultural problems -  practical advices – treat fairly local interpreter -  also Istanbul negative example – three people organized everything  - irregular practices  - second testimony  - malmo experience  - instabul forum no one is answering  - msf is wealthier  - and we had some trouble to find professional interpreters – tension

    Experience of classical music project in venezueal  - music for a few made by afew    babels is trying to do the same

    Interprestation made a mass practice – babels want everyone to express

    Make  material affordable   coati in northern spain

    Experience  of organizing the first training  of the Kurdish interpreters non professional that with their language taken ininternational 

    Babels  utopian then dystopia  - many interpreters have been disappointed

    Babels has a lot of problems and a legacy  - has training projects and organizational experiences -  babels have handled siccuessfully 900 itnerpersters  in paris and very muc less in instabul – myself as professional interpreter say that bables is putting many in skilled interpreters on the market  - we need to arrange that  - as a space for experiemetation -   is it a global social project  -  something  I have noticed is that forums that work are those that have local authority support

    Francine : supports to what was said  on interpretation

    Raffaela : make  a point of discussion on this  tomorrow  (interpretation ) – we have no decision power in this meeting  we exchange view points  -

    Thank you ot MSF friends  you put a lot of energy to bring us here

    Round of presentation

    Rafaela – new name  network

    Maren  stop the wall

    Mallory  mayfrist people link USSF social forum

    Michel  alterantive in montreal

    Mustafa -  MSF –

    Alessandro   funcctionario de CUT   accompany the group here

    Rogelio  CUT  responsible for wsf in CUT

    Helio  -  wsf office based in sao palo

    Gina  -  peru  fministra group mercosur  - am  part of the liaison group of IC

    Moema  ibase  - brasil   IC member

    Francine  CETRI

    Pierre cartias

    Aala  fst tunis

    Erdal  - mSF

    Muhammad   union workers in jordan

     X   Social association in jodrdan

    Hamouda  fmas

    Christen  - german student

    Monica kursdish  networks

    Javier galiza sempre


    Rafaela  - 3 points brought by helio  this morning

    1/  Which kind fo structure to provided to  wsf  to 2013 and beyond

    IC  Commissions    -  itnecommision  - liaisons group

    2/ how we can use demands from here to 2013 to attract for wsf2013 to make them part

    3/ financial sustainability

    WSF IC intercom meeting Amed 09/26/11 07:59AMWSF IC intercom...  presentation of events  1h40mn 

    Start on the resources we have in our hands in these process – resources are the events planned  in the coming monthes

    Presentation and questions  on each event here  -

    Hamouda :    quebec  Galicia ont fait des propositions pour fsm 2013  a paris and we asked them to stay in the wsf dynamics  -  also decision to mobilize for rio +20 and solidarity forum on Palestine  - our exchange here should be an input to help ic  go forward on this


    Javier  -  how we see from the stateless nation network how we see this

    Withtout getting in methodology not on the technical side but political -   gather all the people that organized forum since 2001 -  galiza on stateless nation  in wsf on actor in wsf  - from the july  document – we have made two meeting locally  in galiza  - organizacion that participated in wef in galiza – postivie answers – first assemblu of stateless nation  these days iun msf  - have your feedbakcs  now in this meeting

    What type of bodies – a gallizan committee and an intrnation al committee


    Two type of activities  self organized and other co-organized by committee  - to give way to gathering  experience of earlier forums

    In this event  - it would be a bout  “how this affect the forum “  not general discussions -  participation of comisisons  -  in two months we size this  project

    Gina  - very interesting   - other instruments   -  guiding principles  -   and  spaces of exchange  - new actors  - reclaim the experience of belem  indigenous presence  -

    Moema  - relevant  and well timed   -

    Methodology commission has thise proposal of exchange spaces –

    Preparation process very important   -and keep in a permanent way  with a highligh

    Methodology comisison be inside the forum

    Pierre  -Decentralized way by a certain number of themes  -  combine  on line space with preparation of  galiza

    Javier -  agree with moema  to make a forum in the north  - each tiome more difficult

    Helio  -   14 18 septiembre    would also be begfore the last ic meeting before  wsf2013 – que galizia sea conectada a la preparacion of wsf2013

    Hamouda è good idea on principles  -but  there will an ic  during fsmm in march  and another in the wsf2013 late in 2013

    Where will be the spring 2012 IC meeting

    Pierre –please clarify  in march 2013  where will be the ic  in  tunis  or in amed ?

    Hamouda :  we said 2 ic in the magrheb mashrek region

    Erdal  we agreed in amed

    Rafaella -  yes true  - we can leave for discussion 

    Moema  we can sit as expansion commission  and discuss this – devote some time here and make a proposal  otherwise two things will be very fragile

    Michel on Canada  Queec first nations  

    - two minute of history on this project – a not recent idea  2005  quebec  canda first nation  and for bad reason we could not concretize it  -è when we discussed for wsf 2013 in montral there was an interested  - we launched agin this idea  - the aim is to cinluded groups that are usually divided for bad reason – for instance   current  protest in ottwan about tar sands

    We are launching this  consultuaiton  11 october  22 ottwoan  Toronto   I hope we can give more content in dahaka – many of the grup who are in Canada – have a good experience of social forum  - there is intreste towards wsf but alos  a certain  mistrust  - expect more concretization – follow mtheoologi discussion – not make a forum for a forum – create forward takin momentum -  we had a discussion with a vote on a wsf in the nort  - we have postponed the idea of a nothr forum and we have fundamental struggle  in the north 

    -Gina  - a clarification   on what you said -  ( rewording the above)

    Michel – recreate this alliance of progressive people in quebec canda  - focused on  climate change  witht strong actions

    Moema : the date is not defined  - can be later than 2012 -?

    Michel – will know later – what is clear is that climate chage is a central theme – thatis what the firt nation want to work on  - first nation is people that were in Canada before people like me white came in

    Rafaeell – rio and magrheb

    Moema  -on rio °20

      in Dakar what we agreed was a roadmap of struggles  with g20 in france and cop 17 in south African  -   we are in a political indetifition moment  -  cop17 I come from south Africa – conditions there are delicate  -there is a  group of people working on  desligimitation of cop17  ( Patrick bond ) we need to delegitimize  this conferfence and boycott airplanes  - on the other hand there are other organziaint that want to get a Kyoto 2 -  many people think that Durban will not get to anything  -   on rio  - that was  a deicion by lula -   European countries want to  play low profile  -  green economy and avoid any evaluation of this process rio -  2012  eleciton year in Europe  - low mobilization - -

    Rio+20 in brazil  - govement will put a lot of emphasis  - it is their first meeting  and they want it successful -  and there is support froml local authourhrity in rio  - we have a large committee rio- from social movement to environementalist  -  we think that  January porto alegre  will be important  with many challenge

    1/ how to articulate  fourm dynamics with a dynamics that want results

    We have no other coordination mechanism – fragmentation is bigger where there is no forum

    2/ bring the real sturglels that come bythematics   water – terra -   a fragmented reality  - how  to make this a common agenda  - volunteer  ptrotogaminso who impule – emthodlogy – how to do it – how to get to 5 themes  -  -in the end you have 30 assemblies  without consequences  -  how can we from  -a the mulitplicatio of struggles – with not enough strigghen and atnerative  -  -what we did on the war of irque seems out of reach

    Build a more integrated agenda  - this is a the desire – a long way

    24 a 29 january in POA -   rio  28 mayo till 9 june  -   people summit  30 may to 8 of june  - 1/a space for deunnciaicion -  2/ another to show wht exist  terra future model -  3/ agenda comun con declar&ation commin – there are organizing comittes in 8 states  in rio in the favelas  there is momentum

    Common people saying there are alternative to disaster looming away

    We are poprosing  21 23 october a preparatory meeting in porto alegre

    “People summit in rio +20 for social and climate justice “   axis  against merchandizing  of   - forcommoing goods

    Rafaela  - I have a question for cut  -  - do you intend to use rio +20 ? Title is perfect ..  an is the only way to face the crisis   in Europe  - create new jobs and rights and so on – if  ITU  will come in rio it will be interesting for more radical socialmovement  -  will it be a strng union presence or not ?

    Alessandro – ITUC is quite present -  change in production models ok- but also concerned by jobs … it always can be done better .. f course – if we start in the substance of the matter – we need days of debate ….  We hopt these debates will be present

    Moema -  I understand uniosn  are very involved  we have three efforts beyond the usual forum actors  -1/ afrodescindenties are well inside  51 orgnaisations – 2/ new media  revolution 2.0  form of free media  -  and have a terre future  to train people  3/  environmtnalist   which abanndonne the forum after three years (  very fragmented in brazil  4/ indigenus   had a meeting in manaus  - we have hopes -  5/ feminist movment 6/ a key actor that asses the situation is via campesina  then jubeil sur and foe  -combine “ in” dynamics ( ngo discsussin )  and “off” dynamics  ( street actions)

    If Durban and rio  fail then G20 in mexico is the only place to be  - it is strategic t make a big sho win rio -  G20 illegitime becomes the real

    Gina :  in belem there was a inerstign effort to articulate indegineuçs peple of 9 countries   this belem effort  is lost

    Moema : I said that indigenous are wel included 

    Rafaella   - info about fsmm in march  - and wsf on Palestine  some good ideas at luchn

    Aala  on fsmm process

    : we meet 2 4 septebmer in tunis – and a march of solidarty with lost migrants family  I decision made  :

    Opening on peace  humanrights  migration – support bloggers  -  accept charter of principles and people charter ?  - call

    Create committees – methodlgue – resource s – intercomisiton – report tnis cairo comisison  for Dhaka  -  call of independence of deiciso  relate to local government  -  a trade union forum in tunis at the time of fsmm – free flotilla  staritng in Italy at the time of fsmm -  a meeting on sahara early 2012 in lyon -  December meeting with itnercommision meting of wsf – and  we will invite local social forum  inlcudeing MSF  -  migrantion forum – migrans rights  - development – seminar in rabat on political islam -  one seminar on negibouthood association

    Rafaella  can we have the calendar of those meetings?

    Maren on palesitne  :

     in Spanish – in paris we decide  to make one wsf on Palestine – now how ?  - we have spoken on the Palestinian  -  importance for them to have a big forum – and good to have it in brazil for regional local region – with solidarity developing in south American  - and in one  in G20 coutnry  -

    what came out of dicsusion -  is that what is missing is a consultation on posiblities – a national consutaiton in brasil  - where ?  when?  In parius we spoke of November 2012  can be a preparatory event  or rio +é0 –consultation to be made  before Bangladesh

    Gina : very interesting  - but 2012 agenda  is too dense  - cannot be after 2013 wsf?

    Maren  there are reason to make it 12 not too loose momentum -   -plaestine is on the agenda  now  wa can keep it until 12

    Gina – make  a exnteded palesitne forum

    Maren  - Bangladesh people are ready to give space  in south African  - Inj cairo  in europa  once   - thre is alos experience of solidarity palesitne days  global  - and not many movment are able to do this  we need to use this

     Rafaella  - the list of events is not complete

    – we also have G20 in france  -  15 octuber indigandos of spain  -  In Italy we have intended to follow on paris  proposal – have the meeting/openseminar

     on recntsturction  of European  social space of  2 day meeting in January in Milan with support of municipality   between 10 and 24 of January  - we need two ic people  - we have  6 month with importante events  -  this can be resourceful for buiding  wsf 2013

     We need to be connected and not competitive  - we are not many to be committed

    Tomorrow  organization  - connection con luchas y plata

     About G20 in france  - have a forum and a march in nice  1-4 november  - they have many self organized seminar – attac is looking for money  to make a mediteranean  seminar  ( chechna ) – have some of you been invited ?


    see videos and notes of 27th september