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last modified October 8, 2011 by facilitfsm
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the meeting was broadcasted live with ustream (right side computer and the webcam fixed on top of the water bottle between the two computers - the left side computer is for checking the received image and sound throught internet and to stimulate the associated skype chatroom
see videos and notes of 27th september
- WSF IC intercom... 2 hours
- starting at 8hmn30 - opening by Erdal - 172 organizations participated - 10mn30 Tunjai is presenting MSF -26mn rafaela
- WSF IC intercom... on interpretation
- after meal
- WSF IC intercom... presentation of events 1h40mn
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Note of intercom meeting amed 26
- index
Info on Tunisia meeting in September
Contributions made since paris
Pierre : guiding principles and OE spaces
Francine - intervention sur les axes stratégique
three points proposed by helio :
Rafaela - 3 points brought by helio this morning
Where will be the spring 2012 IC meeting
Michel on Canada Queec first nations
Rafaella - the list of events is not complete
Tomorrow organization - connection con luchas y plata
Discussion on agenda
Gina : mas tiempo para intercomision
Hamouda : iniciar con comisión
Moema : comisión are
Rafaella : herramientas - algunaos laboratorios de nuevas organizacio para contruir juntos el procesos 2013
Hamouda : l’idée de cette rencontré is that various commisisn think together how to support wsf213
We in fsmm have created commissions and have made an intercomion of 5 people to follow with IC –
Meeting in tunis earlyu septembre is not as Dakar – we want collegiality - we work together but six month before wsf sao Paulo people should be in Maghreb mashrek
Have a same vision
We will open our fssmm commission to msf people - a vast region – that has many things to say
That was the idea in paris
Fsmm In tunis we will have meeting of this commission - april
We shre this refelxion with you
Forum in erbil on octboer 9th
Work with Galicia social forum -how we can have exchange galizia forum
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Info on Tunisia meeting in September
Moema: hamouda maybe you can share more ideas of your tunis September meeting- what is your design – decision process
Hamouda : we had a large discussion with Tunisian friends - extended mm on Africa and asia iun april - if we make it bigger we could go towards cairo in wsf2013
We make a meeting in Egypt in November 5 people will go there -Hopefully with IC members that have interest to go there – positive signs from Cairo – there are build a technical report on how to build and event ( helio )
In Dhaka we will have a clearer idea of where –
About thematic : we have discussed , made a work program towards dhakar and next events -maren will speak about palstine solidarity forum
We need time to discuss – no logo no lemma - no methodology
People struggle spring –nothin concret yet
Erdal – what shall we do now ?
Moema : extended magrehbe perspective - election in the coming months - an application report is being made - not possible to make a fundraising project yet
A ample perspective onfsmm + middleeast and secretariat
We are in the middle of the road – no idea on themes
May be we need to see hwo we can contribute as commissions -
Hamouda : what we comitt it to have a methodolgoibal docuemtn before Dhaka that people can discuss
You will have a paper on communication - and a ressrouce committee need – so that in Dhaka ic there is one day commission work
Today what is important is to share what methogolog and commhnicacion commission have done in order to present thing son intercomunission in Dhaka
How will intercomission will work together
We want to relect with you – our paper will be ready for Dhaka
How to mobilize - give another life to forum if we find a way on how o work together
When we decide to come to msf - also to participte in the forum itself and mobilize them msf people to come in ic
Contributions made since paris
Helio : a proposal - since paris there were two process active - evaluation from Dakar - guiding principles - Francine gina pierre may make a contribution
Rafaella : ok with helio we can put things on the table , not start avoid talk
Anyway we should generally discuss the concerns we have , because I think we can create or ivent something new here are some of the concerns
How we can create a equilibrium between the region and the really workwide dimension – we had this problem in dakar - Senegalese cmittee was saying we are alone and we said you have made it alone
How to make a forum together
Commission are not able to guarantee a daily work
Comité de 5 personas in fsmm – thi sis an interesting idea – we could make something equivalent - we can discuss hwo to build the office international - we can thing of specific groups that connect magrhebmashrek with the rest of the world
Mediterranea asiatica atlantica - the building migh be made between groups of people representing these dynamics
How we create the place for a daily work
Hve another ideal dimension of the forum
We are not oblighe to have the same axis array for a century
Moema - start with what helio said
Aala : to answer Rafaela - we have the idean of enlagein
Gina : evaluation of wsf 2011
explain problems encountered in dakar - lack of communication - some priviliges - assemblies - sahrahou problem
Recommendations - espacio decoodination - generar espacios de articulation entre organizadores de foros -
Pierre : guiding principles and OE spaces
Guia de principios -
http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/metcom-principiosguias-versao2011-en
espacios de intercambios entre organisadores de eventos
http://openfsm.net/projects/espacios-oe/project-home
Inviting people in the to include event organizers in the excahgne spaces
Francine - intervention sur les axes stratégique
- just started our work
Gina : interesting process of agglutination in 2005 2009 is demanding and vering interesting
Moema
4 challenges - 1/ how to make the forum useful for the worl and the region - 2/ advance I making form space a tool for advancement of coordination of struggles – we have not succeded in tht denser connection – even assembly of social movement – how the struggles in spain will be present in wsf2013 – or how the struggles in egyp will influence the building of the form – 3/ IC cou cil is a voluntary - we are all overbooked - 4/ fiannacial sustainability - a ngo problem worldwide - money is gong to help rather than development - process sustainability not just event sustainability -Wsf office 2 people and a trainee –
(silence ….)
Erdal about social movement – we can discuss on movement assemblies methodology – but the most important is the forum context – in Dakar everybody was lost – I could not go to any discussion – in msf hamouda pierre was here - the discussion were very strong - in the assembly they made not many questions - in Dakar … - we can discuss there questions with a greager council - here in march
Hamouda :
after what was said - a challenge is to create the intercomission meeting - - those who came are those we are really involved in changing things in the forum - a more concrete proposal we know these people meet often - and in ic the comitt to do things - we could go out with a core goup - with people working in galize palestine – Canada first nation - - .. and then Gina - may give one page of what we could discuss on -
we couod have a docupent - galizia + methodology - and involve event organizer to this ofurm - Rosario alexandre moema are involved on the palesitne forum - convege on a vision - in USA young people sieged wall street - ……. If we do this we can go with a frame of work - ic meeting did not help the working people - it is easy to criticize in the end - even if we diverge we are obliged to help …; forum is everybodys – when I hear that wsf office is in precarious .. it is pitiful …when thre is no mid term perspective - if wsf office has not perepcitv it is difficult ot evaluate it
three points proposed by helio :
there were many point rasied - we need to organize them Gina Pierre francian Moema
1/ a group that will be obliged towork on a more permanent way
2/ not just discussion on axe , how the forum can be a working place for interconnection of struggles - axes or other ways? – Ussf based its process on assemblies that were build before and during the forum – as erdal said if there is good discussion before the final assemblies are consensuales - have a more general understanding about axes and assemblies
3/ financial sustainability - enveot and process - are same - for portoalegre and belem was to finance process from event – belem financed the process -in dkar we tried but did not succeed
Moema : have more information on what is beig preared for other evnt on our mental map
Rafaela : agree with moema and helio ;after the meal , it would be good to inform about other processes fourms campains actions that we think important for mobiliazing for 2013 - 18 december migrant days –it is a red being built , - we need to involved the – the youth of Maghreb -
In the logistical falure of Dakar the assemblies were good because they ware existing by themselves and had decided that wsf as a station in their route -these new actors are involved and shape the forum it culd solve many of the points there -
Erdal we stop here for eating
WSF IC intercom... on interpretation
Interpreters Babels viewpoint -
experience of Dakar - new system of portable low cost booths
Disrectful – patronizing cultural problems - practical advices – treat fairly local interpreter - also Istanbul negative example – three people organized everything - irregular practices - second testimony - malmo experience - instabul forum no one is answering - msf is wealthier - and we had some trouble to find professional interpreters – tension
Experience of classical music project in venezueal - music for a few made by afew babels is trying to do the same
Interprestation made a mass practice – babels want everyone to express
Make material affordable coati in northern spain
Experience of organizing the first training of the Kurdish interpreters non professional that with their language taken ininternational
Babels utopian then dystopia - many interpreters have been disappointed
Babels has a lot of problems and a legacy - has training projects and organizational experiences - babels have handled siccuessfully 900 itnerpersters in paris and very muc less in instabul – myself as professional interpreter say that bables is putting many in skilled interpreters on the market - we need to arrange that - as a space for experiemetation - is it a global social project - something I have noticed is that forums that work are those that have local authority support
Francine : supports to what was said on interpretation
Raffaela : make a point of discussion on this tomorrow (interpretation ) – we have no decision power in this meeting we exchange view points -
Thank you ot MSF friends you put a lot of energy to bring us here
Round of presentation
Rafaela – new name network
Maren stop the wall
Mallory mayfrist people link USSF social forum
Michel alterantive in montreal
Mustafa - MSF –
Alessandro funcctionario de CUT accompany the group here
Rogelio CUT responsible for wsf in CUT
Helio - wsf office based in sao palo
Gina - peru fministra group mercosur - am part of the liaison group of IC
Moema ibase - brasil IC member
Francine CETRI
Pierre cartias
Aala fst tunis
Erdal - mSF
Muhammad union workers in jordan
X Social association in jodrdan
Hamouda fmas
Christen - german student
Monica kursdish networks
Javier galiza sempre
Rafaela - 3 points brought by helio this morning
1/ Which kind fo structure to provided to wsf to 2013 and beyond
IC Commissions - itnecommision - liaisons group
2/ how we can use demands from here to 2013 to attract for wsf2013 to make them part
3/ financial sustainability
WSF IC intercom... presentation of events 1h40mn
Start on the resources we have in our hands in these process – resources are the events planned in the coming monthes
Presentation and questions on each event here -
Hamouda : quebec Galicia ont fait des propositions pour fsm 2013 a paris and we asked them to stay in the wsf dynamics - also decision to mobilize for rio +20 and solidarity forum on Palestine - our exchange here should be an input to help ic go forward on this
Galizia
Javier - how we see from the stateless nation network how we see this
Withtout getting in methodology not on the technical side but political - gather all the people that organized forum since 2001 - galiza on stateless nation in wsf on actor in wsf - from the july document – we have made two meeting locally in galiza - organizacion that participated in wef in galiza – postivie answers – first assemblu of stateless nation these days iun msf - have your feedbakcs now in this meeting
What type of bodies – a gallizan committee and an intrnation al committee
Objectives
Two type of activities self organized and other co-organized by committee - to give way to gathering experience of earlier forums
In this event - it would be a bout “how this affect the forum “ not general discussions - participation of comisisons - in two months we size this project
Gina - very interesting - other instruments - guiding principles - and spaces of exchange - new actors - reclaim the experience of belem indigenous presence -
Moema - relevant and well timed -
Methodology commission has thise proposal of exchange spaces –
Preparation process very important -and keep in a permanent way with a highligh
Methodology comisison be inside the forum
Pierre -Decentralized way by a certain number of themes - combine on line space with preparation of galiza
Javier - agree with moema to make a forum in the north - each tiome more difficult
Helio - 14 18 septiembre would also be begfore the last ic meeting before wsf2013 – que galizia sea conectada a la preparacion of wsf2013
Hamouda è good idea on principles -but there will an ic during fsmm in march and another in the wsf2013 late in 2013
Where will be the spring 2012 IC meeting
Pierre –please clarify in march 2013 where will be the ic in tunis or in amed ?
Hamouda : we said 2 ic in the magrheb mashrek region
Erdal we agreed in amed
Rafaella - yes true - we can leave for discussion
Moema we can sit as expansion commission and discuss this – devote some time here and make a proposal otherwise two things will be very fragile
Michel on Canada Queec first nations
- two minute of history on this project – a not recent idea 2005 quebec canda first nation and for bad reason we could not concretize it -è when we discussed for wsf 2013 in montral there was an interested - we launched agin this idea - the aim is to cinluded groups that are usually divided for bad reason – for instance current protest in ottwan about tar sands
We are launching this consultuaiton 11 october 22 ottwoan Toronto I hope we can give more content in dahaka – many of the grup who are in Canada – have a good experience of social forum - there is intreste towards wsf but alos a certain mistrust - expect more concretization – follow mtheoologi discussion – not make a forum for a forum – create forward takin momentum - we had a discussion with a vote on a wsf in the nort - we have postponed the idea of a nothr forum and we have fundamental struggle in the north
-Gina - a clarification on what you said - ( rewording the above)
Michel – recreate this alliance of progressive people in quebec canda - focused on climate change witht strong actions
Moema : the date is not defined - can be later than 2012 -?
Michel – will know later – what is clear is that climate chage is a central theme – thatis what the firt nation want to work on - first nation is people that were in Canada before people like me white came in
Rafaeell – rio and magrheb
Moema -on rio °20
in Dakar what we agreed was a roadmap of struggles with g20 in france and cop 17 in south African - we are in a political indetifition moment - cop17 I come from south Africa – conditions there are delicate -there is a group of people working on desligimitation of cop17 ( Patrick bond ) we need to delegitimize this conferfence and boycott airplanes - on the other hand there are other organziaint that want to get a Kyoto 2 - many people think that Durban will not get to anything - on rio - that was a deicion by lula - European countries want to play low profile - green economy and avoid any evaluation of this process rio - 2012 eleciton year in Europe - low mobilization - -
Rio+20 in brazil - govement will put a lot of emphasis - it is their first meeting and they want it successful - and there is support froml local authourhrity in rio - we have a large committee rio- from social movement to environementalist - we think that January porto alegre will be important with many challenge
1/ how to articulate fourm dynamics with a dynamics that want results
We have no other coordination mechanism – fragmentation is bigger where there is no forum
2/ bring the real sturglels that come bythematics water – terra - a fragmented reality - how to make this a common agenda - volunteer ptrotogaminso who impule – emthodlogy – how to do it – how to get to 5 themes - -in the end you have 30 assemblies without consequences - how can we from -a the mulitplicatio of struggles – with not enough strigghen and atnerative - -what we did on the war of irque seems out of reach
Build a more integrated agenda - this is a the desire – a long way
24 a 29 january in POA - rio 28 mayo till 9 june - people summit 30 may to 8 of june - 1/a space for deunnciaicion - 2/ another to show wht exist terra future model - 3/ agenda comun con declar&ation commin – there are organizing comittes in 8 states in rio in the favelas there is momentum
Common people saying there are alternative to disaster looming away
We are poprosing 21 23 october a preparatory meeting in porto alegre
“People summit in rio +20 for social and climate justice “ axis against merchandizing of - forcommoing goods
Rafaela - I have a question for cut - - do you intend to use rio +20 ? Title is perfect .. an is the only way to face the crisis in Europe - create new jobs and rights and so on – if ITU will come in rio it will be interesting for more radical socialmovement - will it be a strng union presence or not ?
Alessandro – ITUC is quite present - change in production models ok- but also concerned by jobs … it always can be done better .. f course – if we start in the substance of the matter – we need days of debate …. We hopt these debates will be present
Moema - I understand uniosn are very involved we have three efforts beyond the usual forum actors -1/ afrodescindenties are well inside 51 orgnaisations – 2/ new media revolution 2.0 form of free media - and have a terre future to train people 3/ environmtnalist which abanndonne the forum after three years ( very fragmented in brazil 4/ indigenus had a meeting in manaus - we have hopes - 5/ feminist movment 6/ a key actor that asses the situation is via campesina then jubeil sur and foe -combine “ in” dynamics ( ngo discsussin ) and “off” dynamics ( street actions)
If Durban and rio fail then G20 in mexico is the only place to be - it is strategic t make a big sho win rio - G20 illegitime becomes the real
Gina : in belem there was a inerstign effort to articulate indegineuçs peple of 9 countries this belem effort is lost
Moema : I said that indigenous are wel included
Rafaella - info about fsmm in march - and wsf on Palestine some good ideas at luchn
Aala on fsmm process
: we meet 2 4 septebmer in tunis – and a march of solidarty with lost migrants family I decision made :
Opening on peace humanrights migration – support bloggers - accept charter of principles and people charter ? - call
Create committees – methodlgue – resource s – intercomisiton – report tnis cairo comisison for Dhaka - call of independence of deiciso relate to local government - a trade union forum in tunis at the time of fsmm – free flotilla staritng in Italy at the time of fsmm - a meeting on sahara early 2012 in lyon - December meeting with itnercommision meting of wsf – and we will invite local social forum inlcudeing MSF - migrantion forum – migrans rights - development – seminar in rabat on political islam - one seminar on negibouthood association
Rafaella can we have the calendar of those meetings?
Maren on palesitne :
in Spanish – in paris we decide to make one wsf on Palestine – now how ? - we have spoken on the Palestinian - importance for them to have a big forum – and good to have it in brazil for regional local region – with solidarity developing in south American - and in one in G20 coutnry -
what came out of dicsusion - is that what is missing is a consultation on posiblities – a national consutaiton in brasil - where ? when? In parius we spoke of November 2012 can be a preparatory event or rio +é0 –consultation to be made before Bangladesh
Gina : very interesting - but 2012 agenda is too dense - cannot be after 2013 wsf?
Maren there are reason to make it 12 not too loose momentum - -plaestine is on the agenda now wa can keep it until 12
Gina – make a exnteded palesitne forum
Maren - Bangladesh people are ready to give space in south African - Inj cairo in europa once - thre is alos experience of solidarity palesitne days global - and not many movment are able to do this we need to use this
Rafaella - the list of events is not complete
– we also have G20 in france - 15 octuber indigandos of spain - In Italy we have intended to follow on paris proposal – have the meeting/openseminar
on recntsturction of European social space of 2 day meeting in January in Milan with support of municipality between 10 and 24 of January - we need two ic people - we have 6 month with importante events - this can be resourceful for buiding wsf 2013
We need to be connected and not competitive - we are not many to be committed
Tomorrow organization - connection con luchas y plata
About G20 in france - have a forum and a march in nice 1-4 november - they have many self organized seminar – attac is looking for money to make a mediteranean seminar ( chechna ) – have some of you been invited ?
see videos and notes of 27th september