• icextension montreal 0814 informal en

last modified August 29, 2014 by facilitfsm

voir lien youtube 2h22mn : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obwPGx0Iluk  


   20140825-ottawa-150.JPG    20140825-ottawa-151.JPGTRANSLATION of Notes IN ENGLISH

Notes are close enough to verbatim and video is available -sentences highlighted in yellow are for a quick overview



Michel 3mn we all brave to have this meeting after 4 days of forum- even though not many people from IC managed to come - we wanted to thank them - not decided to talk about the record of PSF we retain the tripartite meeting worked even if sometimes parallel meetings - participation is more than expected - no major problems - tonight we especially want to mention the preparation fsm2015 tunis and IC -

5mn Mouhiedine have a report : Ronald will make it from notes of Pierre


A1 agenda tunis IC   A2  l participation mail list  A3  financing  A4 financing   A5  secretariat 

B1  need for intl participation B1bis   extension of commissions & country spaces  B1 ter   distance tasks   B2  budget   B2bis financing 

C1  status wsf2016    C2  extension wsf2015     C3  Canada in IC  C4  assembly in  montréal   C5   west of canada  C6 expectations of IC



See photo http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended/ottawa-informal-24-aout-2014


Michel Alternatives

Claude Attac Québec

Gustavo représentant CRID au CI, Attac France

Fatima Ipam

Hamouda Fmas

Pierre b NCS nouveaux cahiers du socialisme

Pierre g volonteer caritas internationalis in IC

Raphael collectif FSM2016

Mohiédine CRLDHT comité organisation Tunis http://openfsm.net/projects/faldi-fsm/faldifsm-crldht

Feroz Alternatives

Mallory Mayfirst usa

Lucia Milton part citizen committee

Dimitris centre écologie urbain Montréal

Thérèse collectif FSM20016

Samuel collectif FSM2016

Ronald Alternatives

[00:24:00] Sylvain : Sylvain collectif FSM 2016

[00:41:01] ic extension: présentation des nouveaux arrivants

Mahmud réseau amazigh pour la citoyenneté

Youssef fmas réseau amazigh

Jamila e-joussour

Nabil e-jousseur

Yasser choukri egypt


Agenda 8mn

(Michel)part A October IC in Tunis & part B Tunis forum

(Raphael) part C- connection WSF Tunis WSF Montreal


A – Next IC in October in Tunis


Gus - we had planned a formal meeting - not possible

Competition with two other events of Brasilia energy forum process and esu Attac in Paris

it was decided an informal meeting of the members present

The process itself is quite active - 5 or 6 events went well - Forum Sarajevo - crid University - energy forum - Peoples' Forum - 2014 esu

(see calendar group: http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2014-calendar)

these events went well : a dynamic exists, but in this dynamic the difficult issue is of the International Council

Start of reflection in Casablanca

Have a successful IC in Tunis October 31 November 2 : many positive responses for this date

Declaration of members of the International Council on Gaza 140 members and 50 were signed on Gaza text and the meeting of Tunis


A1 -Agenda Tunis IC : two points

1 / Gina and Chico - the council cannot not have a discussion on the evolution of the world situation and its influence on the World Social Forum - organize a debate that would start in November and will be held during the WSF in Tunis and Tunis IC 29 and 30 March 2015

The organization of the debate - some propose that, through methodology commission, a number of consequences of the debate be present in the programming in Tunis


2 / FSM2015 preparation - the Committee of Tunis has established an organization - organizing committee Tunisian African Maghreb

Mobilization Committee has already set up some thoughts about mobilization and space planning in university and methodology commissions that begin operating in September


A2 - A proposal that we can begin to discuss here is how to associate IC members to prepare Tunis 2015

Also open to other people the opportunity to work and strengthen Tunis 2015

Proposal that the organizing committee set up a list with IC member and this list can serve as a relay point for preparation (*1) commissions - with regular info and opening of commissions

Two additional important points

Think about composition if IC , opening of CI, several proposals made in Casablanca

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/casa13-report-en ( part 18-1))


Secretariat issues - policy decision to move to Tunis, hosting country

But discussion on the IC list Brazilian list still want to be active

Hamouda proposal to define tasks and assess where they can be made :preparation, memory, IC list, process event list




A3 – Success of October CI: How to do without solidarity fund


Tunisian committee can provide accommodation but not travel

Gus proposes investigation to find out who needs the 40% of travel expenses, to assess

ask organizations to tell how much they can give

a census task to launch


[0:41:01] ic extension: presentation of newcomers

Mahmud network amazig for Citizenship

Youssef FMAS network amazig

Jamila ejoussour

Nabil e Jousseur

Yasser choukri egypt



Part B - Situation preparation Tunis 2015 27mn


[0:42:34] Mohiedine there was a social forum migration Monastir in April especially Maghreb


Difficulty in shaking Egypt

We took the opportunity a one day work with elements active in 2013 forum

Establishment of the organizing committee - that held other meetings since - with Moroccan Italian French support. Tunisian committee installed. Commissions set up during the month of Ramadan and working

two or three meetings held by these commissions are exclusively Tunisians , while it is not a Tunisian forum: There is a real need for internationals to get incorporated in this commission


 B1 –request for international preparation



Requesting international investment in the methodology: we need outside expertise

Translation problem to solve translate reports Arabic to other languages

Meeting with the government that ensures its commitment to respond to our requests

Inter Ministerial Committee which meets with the organization committee

3 officials allocated by an apolitical government

We proposed the IC meeting to take place three days after general elections: [the government whatever it is has interest to make the forum succeed

Small circle of activists FTES UGTT LTDH ATFD and other organizations

But upcoming WSF not very well known in Tunisia - Activists mind is elsewhere preparation deputies elections in October and presidential elections on November 28 and December 25

[0:52:59] political situation in Tunisia - Fragile secrutiy problem armed group from Libya that attack the army - national unity against terrorism

IC days at Tunis WSF 29 and 30 march Earth Day Palestine

Mohiedine proposes to think about it so this issue is not overlooked inTunisia

There will be a mobilization whatever the election outcome of Tunisian - social movements are active in all the Tunisian country- they are repressed - - recently people that cut road were sentenced to ten years in jail.ftdes set up a monthly social observatory http://ftdes.net/2014/07/ost-newsletter-juin/

Concern is how to reassure international movements and convince them to come to Tunisia, France .. it is moving Mobilization esu (attac) for Tunis FSP 2015 also a little - Italy occasions ( Sabir festival see calendar line 31 : http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2014-calendar



 B2 – WSF budget Tunis2015- 



Budget weakness in - not assured of adequate financing [: example: - WSF2013 French government helped via AFD , while in 2015 no positive response)

the dean of the university is actively invested in preparing


Dimitris - financial question, is there a national tourism organization in Tunisia? (- Yes office and ministry exists) many delegates at the WSF from Canada were interested to tour after the 2013 forum , attract those who want to combine tourism and forum

Mohiedine - Tunisian fellow organizes marathons in Tunisia offers to set up one in margin of the social forum, create a debate over this at the CI


 [1:02:15] Dimitris is there Tunis air? (yes and this company operates flights Tunis Montreal) then negotiate all the North American delegation and because of added business, ask this company financial contribution for WSF


 [1:05:27] Gus the financial issue - 20-35% is financed by inscriptions

the rest 35% comes from the city and the country without political offsets

30% to be found ong governments etc.


A4 – funding for Tunis IC 



[1:06:39] Ronald & Michel we ve mixed two points : Alternatives can contribute to Tunis IC, I have to say that organization in Canada state have increasingly important financing problems. A commitment from alternatives to participate in the solidarity fund


Gus- solidarity fund has requires 20 30ke crid commits each time 400,500 euros for the solidarity fund


Samuel - can IC receive Paypal donations?


Attac quebec IC may apply to organizations that are not on the council


Pierre b - I am not pessimistic because there is a momentum to revive the forum, in total it is a political question: how to stimulate they board in the process

 PSF http://www.peoplessocialforum.org/ - thousands of people hundreds of associations, not all of the poor, it is a political challenge – it should work  


58mn [1:13:28] Dimitris –interactions between us what are the reactions around the table about what Gus Mohiedine said? Gus has made a long description – shall we stay silent? I want to encourage people to be actors in the meeting and not spectators


Samuel - is there anyone in IC dedicated to a mobilization campaign for fund? if no one focuses on the problem ….;


Gus – e there is a Tunisian organization committee, about IC we are an informal meeting, discussion body is the IC list , proposal to open an international list for accompaniment and participation – people here can make recommendations through IC members


Lucia - Samuel Gave me an idea -advertizing WSF and at the time you raise money - we could give evening in churches to people in Montreal , give previous information to people in Montreal about the process. You raise 200$ in one evening – people do the same everywhere. Make them understand how exciting is the WSF



1h04mn Michel we should be brainstorming about financing not now


A5 – IC secretariat 1h05mn


Pierre g – about IC it is good to list tasks and leave room for groups of contributions next to secretariat tasks which show ownership of ic members about the process – not go again in a vision of “secretariat does all”. Two examples of such groups :

1/calendar group set up in Dhaka IC in 2011, Gus and me are in it, and

2/a group rooted in local forums which consulted IC in Casablanca and operates a little website for self documentation of activities held in events of the WSF calendar http://wsf-contactiva.esy.es/ this has never been done before, these are contribution initiatives without exclusivity – give them space


B1(bis) – international contribution to Tunis WSF preparation


Pierre g- for mobilization towards tunis I propose two things –

1/ put in place systematically in tunis "Extension" of Tunis commission meeting on internet, as we do here, video and chat feedback live this is essential if we want to allow people around the world to get involved and make remote mobilization and communication work ( possible to translate by written on line ) if this is not done the only way to contribute is and come live three months in tunisia

2/ Developingcountries spaces” in www.openFSM.net where people having been in contact with forums receive info to mobilize and provide support for extended participation ( local and via internet). In places where wsf is weak this can raise interest and desire to participate

 (*1) note – On openfsm, there is a preparation space herei http://openfsm.net/projects/fsm2015wsf-prepint including a list of geographical mobilization spaces, http://openfsm.net/projects/fsm2015wsf-prepint/2015prepint-geospaces


 Part C - linking WSF Tunis and next WSF - Participation from Canada in IC and WSF2015 - 



C1- status of WSF2016 process


[1:25:07] Raphael – this sets the issue of IC re-composition , trying to enlarge to organizations and movements – our analysis of PSF positive, people are in demand, organization targeted by the government have less means and big tasks , relying on emerging movements - same idea that our bid for Montreal : revitalize the WSF process with these new emerging movements

People are there ... how to keep them? and not tell themit's over we'll see again in 5 years” - keep them in the process- not viewing every event in itself, but as a process that allows is significant expansion

WSF2016 process is born in 2013 in Tunis – Casablanca a fundamental step idea has been adopted - PSF stage , we mobilized and on this basis we cannot drop the bellows: is not far March 2015: people can get involved in a lot of different ways, we set up collective for participation in Tunis, with a few hundred people , crowd funding sequence PSF Tunis 2015 WSF 2016 mobilization momentum, it is fundamental to enlarge


(A4 – B2 - tunis financing ) 1h15mn


Samuel- is a crowd funding process going to be set up?


Pierre -b we will solve our little Quebecan problem given the dynamics

Advising Tunisian committee to take stock of the situation and not wait until October IC message that will help us and that makes sense

Settle financial problem 500$ by 500$: and more as some organization are affluent [this is a political issue , not administrative: Mohiedine please send us a message convinced and convincing


Ronald there is already the call Tunis in 2015 and (see: http://openfsm.net/projects/fsm2015wsf-prepint/prepint15-documents-cofsm2015-en ) we need a call from IC to outreach and a bank account


Michel we are open to all kind of ways


Pierre b Maybe call for something soon : create a Tunis 2015 Quebec Canada First Nations participation committee to prepare IC and Tunis 2015?


Michel – excellent idea – capitalize on PSF momentum


C2 -Include extension in imaginary of participation in wsf2015 - 1h19mn


1h19mn Pierre g -Whatever the recipe that you will put in place in Canada, with idea of committee and capitalizing on PSF dynamics , etc, think that you can combine an important delegation in Tunis and a significant number of local activities throughout Canada at the moment of Tunis

These activities continue the spirit of PSF and mix with moments of interlink with Tunis supported by the Canadian delegation in Tunis, who dedicate 10% of their time to feedback to Canada ( tele conferences, livestreams, WSF café ..)

This makes sense for people in Canada. Take this combined (direct and local) participation into account in the imaginary of WSF participation

Imaginary of participation is not only to buy a plane ticket for Tunisia. Extension is a political concept, not technical it is about developing access to the forum process, give many occasion to people to stay involved, producing forum at home, with stimulation of events that are far away – this is not internet for the sake of internet

Letter to organizers http://openfsm.net/projects/on-tunis-extension/ontunex-extensionners-en

See experience of France in Tunis and Dakar WSF: over 100 local activities: Speaking methodology it would be good to make visible as such those local activities in the wsf2015 website and this figure can grow a lot if imaginary about wsf participation includes local and internet modalities





Hamouda international council is in lethargy from 140 members on paper, we are 50 organizations that revolve –so need that the dynamics here be useful : in Casablanca you saw that we brought the Mashreq, Yemen Iraq in order to re-dynamize, because there are less latino Americans . Earlier, Brazilian took the lead, now less and less


Pierre b: it's time for North America


1h23mn Michel - time to take the bridge of the chain - the chain connecting the winning chain - the weakest link (laughters)


( B1- contribution to wsf2015 preparation tasks )


 [1:38:00] Samuel to Mohiedine ; what are the tasks that can be done remotely (we talk about it later)


1h24mn Raphael - Samuel showed example, by asking what we can do. Our collective is a core of ten people meeting every Wednesday for two years and 40 people around willing to get involved without any funding for operation .Note: we do not have enough tasks to give to our WSF2016 collective civic initiative 80 groups that support the process, there is a wave that is there, ready

Our agreement was not to interfere with the PSF message give focus to communication about PSF - in the end, we want more forums, more forums better, in our political perspective. There would be a wider window of opportunity if we had announced louder wsf2016 in PSF

We worked for the success of PSF - we announced the 2016 forum in our assembly in PSF

we brought this wave, our hand is extended to everyone -  the project is beautiful and concrete , many people are attracted for getting onboard. We are nearly as advanced as Tunisians one university a city another university - we launched this thing  and- we are at a point where if the organizations around the table take a clear stance, it is going to take off and benefit everyone


C3 - Preparation October IC - proposals coming from Canada in this IC - 1h27mn


Gus need to energize the council as Hamouda said - arrive at October IC with proposals. If making balance of PSF you come up with a proposal for the World Social Forum in Montreal in 2016 or 2017 it's going to energize …..The same way if we can convince the Indians to resume their proposal

how to boost the IC is that the movements are coming up with initiative proposals for events related to WSF process


Michel - an issue that revolves our Alternative position to the FSP take stock

[historical component of PSF is Quebec Canada first nations, it has globally worked at different speeds, rather historical ,personally I think what we can do best is to feed this dynamics, it must be it for me in Canada

Assembly in Edmonton - agreement that Ottawa was selected as a compromise, if in fact west also wants the forum and if ever we make a second PSF it would be 'west

Does The "chain of events» lead to Montreal through the back door? - They still wait in the West- this can either be expansion commission that make campaigns or climate we cannot now decide to do other thing than PSF - I am from the beginning uncomfortable with Montréal  on this  make a delegation in IC- we encourage this dynamic of, we allow it to live I cannot understand how Montreal necessarily comes to power it



1h32mn Pierre b –we are consenting adults-we can talk. no decision here, we discuss and advance: 1/ PSF is something it worked- we created a political dynamic, national mobilization is not in opposition to the international process: in Brazil in the year 2000 WSF was quite useful to Brazilian gained confidence , gained organization skills – we are prudent but we are not fearful

Idea of a social forum in North America, that will support us - United States -

it's not tomorrow that we can launch the WSF in Montreal in an irresponsible way : there are two three months to arrive in Tunis with a kind of proposal - if we cannot get to it we will not die, but if we can let us try


1h35mn Dimitris- this meeting moment is not to go more in depth on this issue. There must be a meeting when we discuss only this, the” theory of a chain of events” yes ,but for the people that I know, the Priory number 1 is to consolidate spirit of Ottawa PSF

it's not easy: in front of us , there is a sub continent and maintaining effective links through it mobilizing this is a big job, the PSF is a small miracle, we want to build further but it's a lot of effort

 in what sense having a global social forum here can help us to create a movement of movements across the sub continent

ensure wider number of Canadian in Tunis is important - we must improve our relations with united states and Mexico, we must plan and conceptualize our changing labor


[01:53:34] Feroz -it is not a question of where to hold the forum: Montreal was proposed in Paris then withdrawn because of Arab revolutions, when and how who proposes and has energy to do that - politically people ask about the visa

In Paris 2013 we had no feedback about Montreal and in Casablanca there was - am comparing the two we should discuss in Tunis where the forum be and


1h45mn Ronald - Alternatives has already proposed idea that WSF be done in Montreal but there is something that is called PSF and gained credibility what is our current task is getting PSF people to contribute to the success of IC, PSF delegation in IC, not link a question of incrementalism, see step Tunis

Qualitative jump of people in Canada in WSF2015, it'll change the game, components , a WSF2016 collective proposing IC in October without the approval of PSF components is a problem: who carries the proposals?

Dimitris spoke of the spirit I saw, a lot of will to fight Harper -

electioneering – shall we condemn those who will get into this? it's not Alternatives that is going to change unions agenda. I felt a strong will a lot of human resources will be dedicated with a one year plan until elections and this should not not lead away from a WSF Montreal Project? convince the PSF components to build the TunisWSF


1h46mn Pierre B: must want a lot : PSF we had to will at the start

Ronald: I understand but the question of subjective exists in a concrete situation, what situaton?

Pierre B : we are not the only one to have elections and a wsf process can help we need to discuss ownership of the proposal

-Ronald we are not making decisions, and the council may not substitute to canadian organizations



C4 - Assembly Debate WSF in Montréal - 1h48mn


Claude - remember that Alternatives had organized a substantial discussion meeting in 2011 at the saint pierre center, people had said we were not ready to do it, and, since then, the situation has changed, success of PSF we should do again this debate , questioning the Quebec social movement. And this should not be done by Alternatives this time :when doing a WSF it is not a few organizations, it takes a significant mobilization


1h50mn Raphael -we had in mind this : mobilize for PS - we did an assembly of convergence -We wanted to have this discussion between us and the next step –We speak about PSF and there were also two Quebec social forums create QSF PSF junction, have constituent assembly from where to start the process



Yasser– 1/ PSF is a big success and will continue and I think we can do every two years there is need to continue in itself,–we have to keep this happening evaluate the lessons- this can help WSF - we in the IC it will be good to have the PSF evaluation itself 2/ having the PSF here will encourages a lot of Canadians to go to Tunisia : understand the global forum – we gonna send people in Tunisia - this is already a big contribution 2016 I do not know you will decide


C5 – West of Canada- 1h54mn


Samuel idea of an PSF in western Canada nice idea - but we are so advanced for the WSF would be a shame to cut it in Montreal - how to help social movement in the West?, how to find a solution to this? we in WSF collective we dream and we have goals

[2:16:50] Ronald PSF western polycentric USSF is also to address the issue of territory size


C6 - The varied dynamics in place in Canada raises interest in IC


[2:10:35]: hamouda – bet to the point : much hesitation to come to Canada, the 50 organizations that have remained in the IC have no money, make a forum with a global work to which everyone should participate: American in June 2015 it's important, maybe the Americans will say they prefer the forum in 2017, we need a common will

There was a will to make a forum in the global north and the only ready are Quebec

the council must discuss and say we mobilize to make the forum in the north, most regions are focusing on thematic forum, in Brasil, in Morocco, in Mauritania on unions ..How these energies will converge in this October 30 IC ? .the council needs a dynamic and everyone is ready to come and lend a hand, do not forget that the momentum is faltering

You have a dynamic installed, you must use it, and with this dynamics support the proposal which is to make a global forum with a broader discussion

All movements can participate in this forum and make it a success. On the side, visa or not visa if 80% of participation is obtained locally international come as a bonus :in brasil we were a few hundreds from Africa and Asia

May be make an IC here? and contribute to build / rebuild the CI with Canadian organizations


2h01mn Ronald polycentric model ussf is because of the territory size, more generally what I hear from Hamouda Why 2016? Sequence with India does not work any more, Why would not council revert to 2017 perspective – let us first take an reading of world situation , and debate in IC – Tunis wsf was evident because of Arab spring what is happening in Europe with rise of far right? thepodemos” in Spain - the Maple Spring? PSF is at works, Greece is under target is we say Europeans are not ready in such a conjuncture I wonder

Gus -the Europeans are not ready

[2:20:40] Michel: we had good exchange, well goodbye everyone, closing here