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icextension montreal 0814 informal en
voir lien youtube 2h22mn :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obwPGx0Iluk
TRANSLATION of Notes IN ENGLISH
Notes are close enough to verbatim and video is available -sentences highlighted in yellow are for a quick overview
Michel 3mn we all brave to have this meeting after 4 days of forum- even though not many people from IC managed to come - we wanted to thank them - not decided to talk about the record of PSF we retain the tripartite meeting worked even if sometimes parallel meetings - participation is more than expected - no major problems - tonight we especially want to mention the preparation fsm2015 tunis and IC -
5mn Mouhiedine have a report : Ronald will make it from notes of Pierre
A1agenda tunis ICA2l participation mail listA3financingA4financingA5secretariat
B1need for intl participation B1bisextension of commissions & country spacesB1 terdistance tasksB2budgetB2bisfinancing
C1status wsf2016C2extension wsf2015C3Canada in ICC4assembly in montréalC5west of canadaC6expectations of IC
6mn ATTENDANCE
See photo http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended/ottawa-informal-24-aout-2014
[00:20:58]
Michel Alternatives
Claude Attac Québec
Gustavo représentant CRID au CI, Attac France
Fatima Ipam
Hamouda Fmas
Pierre b NCS nouveaux cahiers du socialisme
Pierre g volonteer caritas internationalis in IC
Raphael collectif FSM2016
Mohiédine CRLDHT comitéorganisation Tunis http://openfsm.net/projects/faldi-fsm/faldifsm-crldht
Feroz Alternatives
Mallory Mayfirst usa
Lucia Milton part citizen committee
Dimitris centre écologie urbain Montréal
Thérèse collectif FSM20016
Samuel collectif FSM2016
Ronald Alternatives
[00:24:00] Sylvain : Sylvain collectif FSM 2016
[00:41:01] ic extension: présentation des nouveaux arrivants
Mahmud réseau amazigh pour la citoyenneté
Youssef fmas réseau amazigh
Jamila e-joussour
Nabil e-jousseur
Yasser choukri egypt
Agenda8mn
(Michel)part A October IC in Tunis & part B Tunis forum
(Raphael) part C- connection WSF Tunis WSF Montreal
A – Next IC in October in Tunis
Gus- we had planned a formal meeting - not possible
Competition withtwo other events of Brasilia energy forum process and esu Attac in Paris
it wasdecided an informal meeting of the members present
The processitself is quite active - 5 or 6 events went well - Forum Sarajevo - crid University - energy forum - Peoples' Forum - 2014 esu
(see calendar group: http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2014-calendar)
these eventswent well : a dynamic exists, but in this dynamic the difficult issue is of the International Council
Start of reflectionin Casablanca
Have a successful IC in TunisOctober 31 November 2 : many positive responses for this date
Declaration ofmembers of the International Council on Gaza 140 members and 50 were signed on Gaza text and the meeting of Tunis
A1 -Agenda Tunis IC : two points
1 /Gina and Chico - the council cannot not have a discussion on the evolution of the world situation and its influence on the World Social Forum - organize a debate that would start in November and will be held during the WSF in Tunis and Tunis IC 29 and 30 March 2015
The organization of thedebate - some propose that, through methodology commission, a number of consequences of the debate be present in the programming in Tunis
2 /FSM2015 preparation - the Committee of Tunis has established an organization - organizing committee Tunisian African Maghreb
MobilizationCommittee has already set up some thoughts about mobilization and space planning in university and methodology – commissions that begin operating in September
A2 - A proposalthat we can begin to discuss here is how to associate IC members to prepare Tunis 2015
Alsoopen to other people the opportunity to work and strengthen Tunis 2015
Proposalthat the organizing committee set up a list with IC member and this list can serve as a relay point for preparation (*1) commissions -with regular info and opening of commissions
Twoadditional important points
Think aboutcomposition if IC , opening of CI, severalproposals made in Casablanca
http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/casa13-report-en( part 18-1))
Secretariatissues - policy decision to move to Tunis, hosting country
Butdiscussion on the IC listBrazilian list still want to be active
Hamoudaproposal to define tasks and assess where they can be made :preparation, memory, IC list, process event list
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A3 – Success ofOctober CI: How to do without solidarity fund
Tunisiancommittee can provide accommodation but not travel
Gusproposes investigation to find out who needs the 40% of travel expenses, to assess
ask organizationsto tell how much they can give
a censustask to launch
[0:41:01] ic extension: presentation of newcomers
Mahmudnetwork amazig for Citizenship
YoussefFMAS network amazig
Jamila ejoussour
Nabil e Jousseur
Yasser choukri egypt
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Part B - Situation preparation Tunis 2015 27mn
[0:42:34] Mohiedine – there was a social forum migration Monastir in April especially Maghreb
http://openfsm.net/projects/pfs3m/pfs3m-monastir2014-extension
Difficultyin shaking Egypt
Wetook the opportunity – a one day work with elements active in 2013 forum
Establishment ofthe organizing committee - that held other meetings since - with Moroccan Italian French support. Tunisian committee installed. Commissions set up during the month of Ramadan and working
two or three meetingsheld by these commissions are exclusively Tunisians , while it is not a Tunisianforum: There is a real need for internationals to get incorporated in this commission
B1 –request for international preparation
Requesting international investment inthe methodology: we need outside expertise
Translation problemto solve translate reports Arabic to other languages
Meeting with the governmentthat ensures its commitment to respond to our requests
InterMinisterial Committee which meets with the organization committee
3officials allocated by an apolitical government
We proposed the IC meetingto take place three days after general elections: [the government whatever it is has interest to make the forum succeed
Small circleof activists FTES UGTT LTDH ATFD and other organizations
But upcoming WSF notvery well known in Tunisia - Activists mind is elsewhere preparation deputies elections in October and presidential elections on November 28 and December 25
[0:52:59] political situation in Tunisia - Fragile – secrutiy problem armed group from Libya that attack the army - national unity against terrorism
IC daysat Tunis WSF 29 and 30 march Earth Day Palestine
Mohiedineproposes to think about it so this issue is not overlooked inTunisia
There will bea mobilization whatever the election outcome of Tunisian - social movements are active in all the Tunisian country- they are repressed - - recently people that cut road were sentenced to ten years in jail.ftdes set up a monthly social observatoryhttp://ftdes.net/2014/07/ost-newsletter-juin/
Concern ishow to reassure international movements and convince them to come to Tunisia, France .. it is moving Mobilization esu (attac) for Tunis FSP 2015 also a little - Italy occasions ( Sabir festival see calendar line 31 : http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2014-calendar
B2 – WSF budgetTunis2015-
Budget weakness in- not assured of adequate financing [: example: - WSF2013 French government helped via AFD , while in 2015 no positive response)
the deanof the university is actively invested in preparing
Dimitris- financial question, is there a national tourism organization in Tunisia? (- Yes office and ministry exists) many delegates at the WSF from Canada were interested to tour after the 2013 forum , attract those who want to combine tourism and forum
Mohiedine- Tunisian fellow organizes marathons in Tunisia offers to set up one in margin of the social forum, create a debate over this at the CI
[1:02:15] Dimitris is there Tunis air? (yes and this company operates flights Tunis Montreal) then negotiate all the North American delegation and because of added business, ask this company financial contribution for WSF
[1:05:27] Gus the financial issue - 20-35% is financed by inscriptions
the rest35% comes from the city and the country without political offsets
30%to be found ong governments etc.
A4 – funding forTunis IC
[1:06:39] Ronald & Michel we ve mixed two points : Alternatives can contribute to Tunis IC, I have to say that organization in Canada state have increasingly important financing problems. A commitment from alternatives to participate in the solidarity fund
Gus-solidarity fund has requires 20 30ke crid commits each time 400,500 euros for the solidarity fund
Samuel- can IC receive Paypal donations?
Attacquebec – IC may apply to organizations that are not on the council
Pierreb - I am not pessimistic because there is a momentum to revive the forum, in total it is a political question: how to stimulate they board in the process
PSF http://www.peoplessocialforum.org/-thousands of people hundreds of associations, not all of the poor, it is a political challenge – it should work
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58mn [1:13:28] Dimitris –interactions between us what are the reactions around the table about what Gus Mohiedine said? Gus has made a long description – shall we stay silent? I want to encourage people to be actors in the meeting and not spectators
Samuel- is there anyone in IC dedicated to a mobilization campaign for fund? if no one focuses on the problem ….;
Gus– e there is a Tunisian organization committee, about IC we are an informal meeting, discussion body is the IC list , proposal to open an international list for accompaniment and participation – people here can make recommendations through IC members
Lucia-SamuelGaveme anidea-advertizingWSF andat thetimeyouraisemoney -wecouldgiveeveningin churchestopeopleinMontreal, give previous information to people in Montreal about the process. You raise 200$ in one evening – people do the same everywhere. Make them understand how exciting is the WSF
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1h04mn Michel we should be brainstorming about financing not now
A5 – IC secretariat1h05mn
Pierreg – about IC it is good to list tasks and leave room for groups of contributions next to secretariat tasks which show ownership of ic members about the process – not go again in a vision of “secretariat does all”. Two examples of such groups :
1/calendar group set up in Dhaka IC in 2011, Gus and me are in it, and
2/a group rooted in local forums which consulted IC in Casablanca and operates a little website for self documentation of activities held in events of the WSF calendar http://wsf-contactiva.esy.es/ this has never been done before, these are contribution initiatives without exclusivity – give them space
B1(bis) – international contribution to Tunis WSF preparation
Pierre g- for mobilization towards tunis I propose two things –
1/ put in place systematically in tunis "Extension" of Tunis commission meeting on internet,as we do here, video and chat feedback live this is essentialif we want to allow people around the world to get involved and make remote mobilization and communication work ( possible to translate by written on line ) if this is not done the only way to contribute is and come live three months in tunisia
2/ Developing“countries spaces” in www.openFSM.netwherepeople having been in contact with forums receive info to mobilize and provide support for extended participation ( local and via internet). In places where wsf is weak this can raise interest and desire to participate
(*1) note – On openfsm, there is a preparation space herei http://openfsm.net/projects/fsm2015wsf-prepintincluding a list of geographical mobilization spaces, http://openfsm.net/projects/fsm2015wsf-prepint/2015prepint-geospaces
Part C - linking WSFTunis and next WSF - Participation from Canada in IC and WSF2015 -
C1- status of WSF2016 process
[1:25:07] Raphael – this sets the issue of IC re-composition , trying to enlarge to organizations and movements – our analysis of PSF positive, people are in demand, organization targeted by the government have less means and big tasks , relying on emerging movements - same idea that our bid for Montreal : revitalize the WSF process with these new emerging movements
People are there... how to keep them? and not tell them “it's over we'll see again in 5 years” - keep them in the process- not viewing every event in itself, but as a process that allows is significant expansion
WSF2016process is born in 2013 in Tunis – Casablanca a fundamental step idea has been adopted - PSF stage , we mobilized and on this basis we cannot drop the bellows: is not far March 2015: people can get involved in a lot of different ways, we set up collective for participation in Tunis, with a few hundred people , crowd funding sequence PSF Tunis 2015 WSF 2016 mobilization momentum, it is fundamental to enlarge
(A4 – B2 - tunis financing ) 1h15mn
Samuel- is a crowd funding process going to be set up?
Pierre-b we will solve our little Quebecan problem given the dynamics
Advising Tunisian committeeto take stock of the situation and not wait until October IC message that will help us and that makes sense
Settlefinancial problem 500$ by 500$: and more as some organization are affluent [this is a political issue , not administrative: Mohiedine please send us a message convinced and convincing
Ronald– there is already the call Tunis Link: /projects/fsm2015wsf-prepint/prepint15-documents-cofsm2015-en in 2015 and (see: http://openfsm.net/projects/fsm2015wsf-prepint/prepint15-documents-cofsm2015-en Link: /projects/fsm2015wsf-prepint/prepint15-documents-cofsm2015-en Link: /projects/FSM2015wsf-prepint/prepint15-documents-coFSM2015-en ) we need a call from ICto outreach and a bank account
Michel we are open to all kind of ways
Pierreb Maybe call for something soon : create a Tunis 2015 Quebec Canada First Nations participation committee to prepare IC and Tunis 2015?
Michel – excellent idea – capitalize on PSF momentum
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C2 -Include extension in imaginary of participation in wsf2015 - 1h19mn
1h19mn Pierreg -Whatever the recipe that you will put in place in Canada, with idea of committee and capitalizing on PSF dynamics , etc, think that you can combine an important delegation in Tunis and a significant number of local activities throughout Canada at the moment of Tunis
These activities continue the spirit of PSF and mix with moments of interlink with Tunis supported by the Canadian delegation in Tunis, who dedicate 10% of their time to feedback to Canada ( tele conferences, livestreams, WSF café ..)
This makes sense for people in Canada. Take this combined (direct and local) participation into account in the imaginary of WSF participation
Imaginary of participation is not only to buy a plane ticket for Tunisia. Extension is a political concept, not technical it is about developing access to the forum process, give many occasion to people to stay involved, producing forum at home, with stimulation of events that are far away –this is not internet for the sake of internet
Letter to organizers http://openfsm.net/projects/on-tunis-extension/ontunex-extensionners-en
See experience of France in Tunis and Dakar WSF: over 100 local activities: Speaking methodology it would be good to make visible as such those local activities in the wsf2015 website and this figure can grow a lot if imaginary about wsf participation includes local and internet modalities
http://openfsm.net/projects/facili-tation-de-fsl/tunis-etendu-en-france
http://openfsm.net/projects/facili-tation-de-fsl/localisations~xa0et-activites~xa0dakar-etendu
http://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom
Hamouda– international council is in lethargy from 140 members on paper, we are 50 organizations that revolve –so need that the dynamics here be useful : in Casablanca you saw that we brought the Mashreq, Yemen Iraq in order to re-dynamize, because there are less latino Americans . Earlier, Brazilian took the lead, now less and less
Pierreb: it's time for North America
1h23mn Michel- time to take the bridge of the chain - the chain connecting the winning chain - the weakest link (laughters)
( B1- contribution to wsf2015 preparation tasks )
[1:38:00] Samuel to Mohiedine ; what are the tasks that can be done remotely (we talk about it later)
1h24mn Raphael -Samuel showed example, by asking what we can do. Our collective is a core of ten people meeting every Wednesday for two years and 40 people around willing to get involved without any funding for operation .Note: we do not have enough tasks to give to our WSF2016 collective civic initiative 80 groups that support the process, there is a wave that is there, ready
Our agreementwas not to interfere with the PSF message give focus to communication about PSF - in the end, we want more forums, more forums better, in our political perspective. There would be a wider window of opportunity if we had announced louder wsf2016 in PSF
We workedfor the success of PSF - we announced the 2016 forum in our assembly in PSF
webrought this wave, our hand is extended to everyone -the project is beautiful and concrete , many people are attracted for getting onboard. We are nearly as advanced as Tunisians one university a city another university - we launched this thingand- we are at a point where if the organizations around the tabletake a clear stance, it is going to take off and benefit everyone
C3 - PreparationOctober IC - proposals coming from Canada in this IC - 1h27mn
Gus– need to energize the council as Hamouda said - arrive atOctober IC with proposals. If making balance of PSF you come up with a proposal for the World Social Forum in Montreal in 2016 or 2017 it's going to energize …..The same way if we can convince the Indians to resume their proposal
how toboost the IC is that the movements are coming up with initiative proposals for events related to WSF process
Michel- an issue that revolves our Alternative position to the FSP take stock
[historical component of PSF is Quebec Canada first nations, it has globally worked at different speeds, rather historical ,personally I think what we can do best is to feed this dynamics, it must be it for me in Canada
Assemblyin Edmonton - agreement that Ottawa was selected as a compromise, if in fact west also wants the forum and if ever we make a second PSF it would be 'west
Does The "chain of events» lead to Montreal through the back door? - They still wait in the West- this can either be expansion commission that make campaigns or climate we cannot nowdecide to do other thing than PSF - I am from the beginning uncomfortable with Montréal on this make a delegation in IC- we encourage this dynamic of, we allow it to live I cannot understand how Montreal necessarily comes to power it
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1h32mn Pierreb –we are consenting adults-we can talk. no decision here, we discuss and advance: 1/ PSF is something it worked- we created a political dynamic, national mobilization is not in opposition to the international process: in Brazil in the year 2000 WSF was quite useful to Brazilian gained confidence , gained organization skills – we are prudent but we are not fearful
Idea of a socialforum in North America, that will support us - United States -
it's nottomorrow that we can launch the WSF in Montreal in an irresponsible way : there are twothree months to arrive in Tunis with a kind of proposal - if we cannot get to it we will not die, but if we can let us try
1h35mn Dimitris-this meeting moment is not to go more in depth on this issue. There must be a meeting when we discuss only this, the” theory of a chain of events” yes ,but for the people that I know, the Priory number 1 is to consolidate spirit of Ottawa PSF
it's not easy: in front of us, there is a sub continent and maintaining effective links through it mobilizing this is a big job, the PSF is a small miracle, we want to build further but it's a lot of effort
in what sensehaving a global social forum here can help us to create a movement of movements across the sub continent
ensure widernumber of Canadian in Tunis is important - we must improve our relations with united states and Mexico, we must plan and conceptualize our changing labor
[01:53:34] Feroz -it is not a question of where to hold the forum: Montreal was proposed in Paris then withdrawn because of Arab revolutions, when and how who proposes and has energy to do that - politically people ask about the visa
In Paris 2013 we had no feedback about Montreal and in Casablanca there was - am comparing the two we should discuss in Tunis where the forum be and
1h45mn Ronald- Alternatives has already proposed idea that WSF be done in Montreal but there is something that is called PSF and gained credibility –what is our current task is getting PSF people to contribute to the success of IC, PSF delegation in IC, not link a question of incrementalism, see step Tunis
Qualitative jump of people in Canada in WSF2015, it'll change the game, components , a WSF2016collective proposing IC in October without the approval of PSF components is a problem: who carries the proposals?
Dimitrisspoke of the spirit – I saw, a lotof will to fight Harper -
electioneering– shall we condemn those who will get into this? it's not Alternatives that is going to change unions agenda. I felt a strong will a lot of human resources will be dedicated with a one year plan until elections and this should not not lead away from a WSF Montreal Project? convince the PSF components to build the TunisWSF
1h46mn Pierre B: must want a lot : PSF we had to will at the start
Ronald: I understand but the question of subjective exists in a concrete situation, what situaton?
Pierre B: we are not the only one to have elections and a wsf process can help we need to discuss ownership of the proposal
-Ronald we are not making decisions, and the council may not substitute to canadian organizations
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C4 - AssemblyDebate WSF in Montréal - 1h48mn
Claude- remember that Alternativeshad organized a substantial discussion meeting in 2011 at the saint pierre center, people had said we were not ready to do it, and, since then, the situation has changed, success of PSF we should do again this debate , questioning the Quebec social movement. And this should not be done by Alternatives this time :when doing a WSF it is not a few organizations, it takes a significant mobilization
1h50mn Raphael-we had in mind this : mobilize for PS- we did an assembly of convergence -We wanted to have this discussion between us and the next step –We speak about PSF and there were also two Quebec social forums create QSF PSF junction, have constituent assembly from where to start the process
Yasser– 1/ PSF is a big success and will continue and I think we can do every two years there is need to continue in itself,–we have to keep this happening evaluate the lessons- this can help WSF - we in the IC it will be good to have the PSF evaluation itself 2/ having the PSF here will encourages a lot of Canadians to go to Tunisia : understand the global forum – we gonna send people in Tunisia - this is already a big contribution 2016 I do not know you will decide
C5 – West of Canada- 1h54mn
Samuel– idea of an PSF in western Canada nice idea - but we are so advanced for the WSF would be a shame to cut it in Montreal - how to help social movement in the West?, how to find a solution to this? we in WSF collective we dream and we have goals
[2:16:50] Ronald – PSF western polycentric USSF is also to address the issue of territory size
C6 - The varieddynamics in place in Canada raises interest in IC
[2:10:35]: hamouda – bet to the point : much hesitation to come to Canada, the 50 organizations that have remained in the IC have no money, make a forum with a global work to which everyone should participate: American in June 2015 it's important, maybe the Americans will say they prefer the forum in 2017, we need a common will
There was a will to makea forum in the global north and the only ready are Quebec
the council mustdiscuss and say we mobilize to make the forum in the north, most regions are focusing on thematic forum, in Brasil, in Morocco, in Mauritania on unions ..How these energies will converge in this October 30 IC ? .the council needs a dynamic and everyone is ready to come and lend a hand, do not forget that the momentum is faltering
You have a dynamicinstalled, you must use it, and with this dynamics support the proposal which is to make a global forum with a broader discussion
All movementscan participate in this forum and make it a success. On the side, visa or not visa if 80% of participation is obtained locally international come as a bonus :in brasil we were a few hundreds from Africa and Asia
May be makean IC here?and contribute to build / rebuild the CI with Canadian organizations
2h01mn Ronald polycentric model ussf is because of the territory size, more generally what I hear from Hamouda Why 2016? Sequence with India does not work any more, Why would not council revert to 2017 perspective – let us first take an reading of world situation , and debate in IC – Tunis wsf was evident because of Arab spring what is happening in Europe with rise of far right? the“podemos” in Spain - the Maple Spring? PSF is at works, Greece is under target is we say Europeans are not ready in such a conjuncture I wonder
Gus-the Europeans are not ready
[2:20:40] Michel: we had good exchange, well goodbye everyone, closing here
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