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Meeting on preparation of Future of the forum seminar in Tunis 25 Jun 22 english automatic translation of the french version ( text in black)

https://youtu.be/54XD2hooelc

Alaa - Bartiria - Carlos tiburcio - Carmonda - Cesare - Cut leonardo - Damien - Ftdes - Hamouda - Int - Int - Int - Int - Int - Int - Int - Int teresa - Jeanne - kamal - Leo gabriel - Liege - Marcela - Mario gil - Markin - Mestrum - Norma - Ole - Pierre - Rand - Rosana - Rosy - Sheila - 

(no video in the first moments) 

@1 Hamouda Going out with a date and a movement call

@2 Maher The social dynamic continues-France Chile Peru Colombia - Putting our evaluations on the table - FSM Space of contestation and subversion or space of articulation with politics - serious openings in contexts in Spain in France in Latin America - Time to discuss and ask questions about populism, the need for the state - Ftdes and fmas available to organize this fruitful debate.

@3 Kamal Finding the balance between specific issues and advice and some social movements on the social forum – this is not a situational analysis but on what conclusion we can date – challenges and how we can date.

@4 Alaa Dates July 15 early September or September 26 27 28.

@5 Hamouda The Brazilians gathered among themselves ask before September 15 elections. brazilian

@6 Leo 0mn Thank you to the Tunisians vital initiative to agree on the framework - That there are people who have abandoned the forum - That it is deliberative.

(start of video) 

If we don't do that, I think it's going to be talkative, more or less interesting, all that, and that's why we mustn't let ourselves be carried away by decisions that have been made at some point in the process , which were even written in the charter of Porto Alègre. You really have to have an open horizon to renew the Social Forum, because Mexico has shown that if it continues like this, there will be no more World Social Forum. thank you.

@7 Sheila 2mn Bom dia boa tarde. Fiquei com algumas dúvidas depois da fala do Alaa. Had acho that é important esclarecer. Primeiro lugar - Eu fiquei com dúvida em relaçao fala do Alaa. Qual é o objectivo de seminário . 

Pelo que me lembro, a decisão de fazer um seminário é anterior a offer de disponibilidade dos companheiros do magreb de realizar o seminário la. E pelo que eu lembre, a importância de esse seminário e nos discutirmos o futuro do fórum, fazer uma escuta atenta, qualificada de todas as propostas que já existentm. Alguns grupos já têm discussed e já tem um acúmulo. 

Então seria o momento para nos debruçarmos para nos dedicarmos a isso e ao mesmo tempo pensar Qual é a estrutura do funcionamento do CI para que consiga dar conta e waiter do que é precise fazer. En na fala do Alaa para mim não ficou Claro Qual é o objectivo do intense seminar that é um ponto tem que sair da reunião para com muita clareza: Qual é o motivivo de nos reunir. 

não está claro para mim se na verdade não mexico faith afirmado que teríamos recursos para levar todo o CI. Eu gostaria that isso pit reafirmado that todos pudessem porque nem todos estavam na reunião do México. teremos recurso para levar todos os enfim esso foi afirmado no México precisa ser esclarecido aqui. 

En na fala do Alaa tem essa coisa de trazer os movimentos, acho que na fala do Kamal de trazer vários movimentos acho que é important termos vários movimentos da sociedade civil mais Ampla a juventude. Mas acho que é important to hear that é uma reunião do conselho internacional . Entendo que a gente precise ter momentos de escuta Ampla com participação de muita gente, mas também termos momento deliberativo que sejam só do Conselho Internacional.

E inclusive para o pônei, já entrou na metodologia, mas antes de nos revermos a interpretação do Consenso, enquanto consenso foram assumido com unanimidade, não vamos conseguir uma decisão para transformar.

Acho que esses esforços de nos deslocar ate a Tunísia não é pequeno e é precise que a gente de fato sai da Tunísia com decisões important de mudanças do rumo tomadas. Então essas reuniões de preparação são muito important e gostaria de ouvir o grupo de magreb Alaa e Kamal sobre as duas questões, com relação aos recursos ea relação aos objetivos . Se foi eu que interpretei mal qual a estrutura do foro e reestruturação do Conselho internacional estão como objectivo obrigado.

Hello good afternoon. I had some doubts after Alaa's speech. I think it is important to clarify. First up - I had my doubts about Alaa's speech. What is the purpose of the seminar.

If I remember correctly, the decision to organize a seminar predates the availability of Maghreb comrades to hold the seminar there. And from what I remember, the importance of this seminar and for us to discuss the future of the forum, to listen attentively, qualified to all the proposals that already exist. Some groups have already discussed and there is already a build-up.

This would therefore be the time for us to look into it to dedicate ourselves to it and at the same time reflect on what is the structure of the functioning of the IC so that it can manage and do what must be done. And in Alaa's speech, it was not clear to me.

it is not clear to me if in fact mexico was declared that we would have the resources to take all of the IC. I would like it to be reaffirmed that everyone could because not everyone was at the Mexico meeting. we will have the resource to take them all anyway, this was said in Mexico and needs to be clarified here.

And in Alaa's speech there is this thing of bringing movements together, I think in Kamal's speech of bringing together various movements I think it is important to have several civil society movements that enlarge the youth. But I think it's important to understand that this is an international board meeting. I understand that we need to have ample listening time with the participation of many people, but we also need to have deliberation time set aside for the International Council.

And even for the pony, it's already entered into the methodology, but before reviewing the interpretation of the Consensus, when the consensus was unanimously assumed, we are not going to obtain a transformation decision.

I think that these efforts to go to Tunisia are not the least and that we must indeed leave Tunisia with important decisions to change course. These preparatory meetings are therefore very important and I would like to hear from the North African group Alaa and Kamal on the two issues, in terms of resources and in relation to the objectives. If it was me who misunderstood what the structure of the forum is and the restructuring of the International Board as a goal, thank you.

 

@8 Ole 6mn Hello everyone I would just like to say something about the timing of the seminar. I think that, in order that it should be very well prepared, for sure invite those who left the world social forum and the new movements. Because from Mexico we know very well that not many look towards the world social Forum very enthusiastic. 

Now for this seminar to mobilize for it we need to be very well prepared and we need to present it and give invitations that are quite in confidence in the seminar. 

So you should be there in to go we need both to prepare this very well and for the movements, and everyone well in struggle that they have more than enough to do. 

Send a report from the seminar with it 2 months in advance very few of those will be able to attend. so I think we need both to define well, as already been said, who we should invite to makes this seminar successful we need to present it very good, and also those who want to attend they need to have the notice quite a while ahead, so they can make room in their schedule.

So I think the best proposal is to have it after the Brazilian elections , that it should be in November, and also that we should set down a work group who can first try to frame the invitation for the seminar, so that it should be invited or call for in probably a month or something so everyone who is willing to attend can prepare for this in advance, and when it should be. 

My proposal is that and after what I said by Hamoudar it should be in November and not in September and if we decide to have it in September we also need to conclude that it will not be very strong seminar maybe sort of another discussion which will be a value in itself , but to have a really good seminar it's too short to time and also from the mobilization thanks.

Hello everyone, I would just like to say something about the schedule for the seminar. I think that, for it to be very well prepared, of course you have to invite those who have left the world social forum and the new movements. Because from Mexico we know very well that few people watch the World Social Forum with great enthusiasm.

Now, for this seminar to mobilize, we have to be very well prepared and we have to present it and give completely confidential invitations to the seminar.

So you should be there to go we need both to prepare well for that and for the moves, and everyone well in wrestling they have more than enough to do.

Send a report of the seminar with 2 months in advance very few of those who will be able to attend. so I think that we must both define well, as has already been said, who we must invite to make this seminar a success, we must present it very well, and also those who want to attend must have the opinion far enough in advance so that they can fit into their schedule.

So I think the best proposal is to have it after the Brazilian elections, be it in November, and also that we set up a working group that can first try to formulate the invitation for the seminar, in order whether he's invited or calling probably in a month or something so that anyone who wants to attend can prepare for it in advance, and when it should be.

My proposal is that and after what I said by Hamoudar, it should be in November and not in September and if we decide to have it in September, we must also conclude that it will not be a very strong seminar perhaps to be a kind of other discussion which will be a value in itself, but to have a very good seminar it is too short of time and also of mobilization thank you.

 

 

@9 Mirek 10mn Very glad to see you all here. Any observer, looking at the word social forum , at our structure from above or from the side, will say in reaching our goals to reach another world to fight capitalist globalization our structure is extremely inefficient and ineffective. We really need to transform the structure. If we don't do that, we cannot believe that any new world global movement or initiative will join us, will want to come in a structure based on a Veto principle , where any decisions are hardly to be taken or if taken They are being put in doubt by anyone.

 When we come back from the ic in Mexico city, we decided about that seminar to be organized in Tunisia this July. ok this July is now unrealistic, but we should not take any possible excuse to postpone it more and more, “not in July then in September, not in September then in November”. Then somebody will come and say ok “November we have elections, postpone it to the next year “and so on and so forth. 

So first any excuse for national elections doesn't bring us anywhere : they are such elections every weekend somewhere in the world. For example, in our country on the 24th of September we have elections. I will come to Tunisia anyhow. So another excuse would be that someone would be missing from the international council that has 100 members, and there would always be someone missing in the meeting. This is not any reason for postponing.

Let us think about transformation of the forum, and then, when we open our structure to other movements, not only formally, but in fact we can hope, that the movements will join us, or at least will work together with us absolutely agree with Leo and let's organize the seminar first week of September not later. 

xxVery glad to see you all here. Any observer, looking at the word social forum, our structure from above or from the side, will say that in achieving our goals of reaching another world to fight against capitalist globalization, our structure is extremely inefficient and ineffective. You really have to change the structure. If we do not, we cannot believe that a new movement or a new global initiative will join us, want to come in a structure based on a principle of veto, where no decision has to be taken or if it is socket. questioned by anyone.

 When we came back from the ic in Mexico, we decided to organize this seminar in Tunisia in July. ok this month of July is now unrealistic, but we must not take any possible excuse to postpone it more and more, "not in July then in September, not in September then in November". Then someone will come and say ok "November we have elections, let's postpone it to next year" and so on.

So first of all any excuse for national elections gets us nowhere: there are such elections every weekend somewhere in the world. For example, in our country, on September 24, we have elections. I will come to Tunisia anyway. So another excuse would be that someone would be missing from the international council which has 100 members, and there would always be someone missing from the meeting. That's no reason to postpone.

Let us think about the transformation of the forum, and then, when we open our structure to other movements, not only formally, but in fact, we can hope that the movements will join us, or at least work with us, absolutely in agreement with Leo and organize the seminar the first week of September no later.

 

@10 Damien 14mn Então eu queria já de uma certa forma concordar com o que foi falado praticamente com todo mundo. 

O primeiro ponto sobre a questão da participação me because essa participação tem que ser plural, ample, inclusive do próprio pelo fato do CI não represent a diversidade no movimento social e das lutas ele a principalmente da análise de conjuntura. Concordo com Sheila que é a participação seja mais procurado possível.

 Agora vem a questão de fato do orçamento o companheiro de maghreb para ver van convida o companheiro doce e movimentos representativos das lutas mundiais que podem participar Quais quais são esses meios? Reitero à pergunta da Sheila quais sao as possibilidades, companhias para poder convidar muitos movimentos. 

Ao mesmo tempo também lembrando com a Sheila pegando o gancho que a companheira Francine colocou que nós também devemos se convidar e intelectuais que possuem um participar são ativistas também que podem tem contribuição a esse momento but que nunca temos que mostrar no exclude ma incluir que estamos junto agendados para poder debater sabemos integrados intelectuais con contribuições não dando mais peso mas também contribuindo de uma forma conjunta.

You continue o segundo. É sobre a questão da data. Eu acho que se o início de setembro concordo com Mirek do ponto de vista do Brasí me Parece but adequate. 

a questão da programação que vai ser discutida. Concordo com Sheila, concordo com a lá também precisamos debater primeiro ter uma análise de conjuntura Ampla não sou Mundial mas também dos diversos focos Regionais que estão acontecendo pelo mundo e esse primeiro. A participação de um conjunto de atores do futuro do Fórum Social Mundial must depart If de acúmulos de colectivos sobra de propostas feitas inclusive por fóruns regionais fóruns temático s que deverá mente para ter um pouco também opinião dos próprios movimentos sobre esse futuro 

E o terceiro ponto de pauta de seminário é a questão da estrutura se eu falo Mirek nós temos uma estrutura muito imperative ea gente precisesa de fato tomar decisões 

Proponho esse sentido que o próprio grupo lilás grupo da secretaria colegiada mesma que suas tarefas não sejam bem definida possa já dialogar como a pessoa da Tunísia com a grande mestre para poder usar ate um coletivo ou representativo desse grupo do CI para organizar Este seminário , mesmo que dentro de Ponto de estrutura do seminário vamos ter que tá lá debater mas as tarefas desse coletivo desse grupo de estrutura colegiada de secretaria colegiado. 

E eu fecho a minha fala com o Punto do consenso no CI A questão que o Leo Gabriele que colocou, di novo na grande discussão A favor encontra Nossa forma de operar metodologicamente e politicamente a gente semper acaba para qualquer assunto um grupo a favor e um contra group.

 E aí, pela nossa interpretação do consenso que ate então é unanimidade , nos conseguiremos avançar não tomamos decisão não pode ser só uma grande discussão Como diz Leo é ressignificar o consenso e também a tomar a temperatura do que sobre um ponto por exemplo se o seminário é deliberativo é por exemplo ver se são 3 ou 4 pessoas a favor traz o quatro pessoas contra e seao 50 sistema realmente aa maioria a favor que seja deliberativo precisamos. Não é uma votação, mas a gente precise sens qual é o sentimento geral, senão acaba sendo de fato uma ditadura da minoria e não podemos continuar nesse sentido. 

Eu sou a favor que seja deliberativo mas que no mínimo que se possa avaliar o conjunto que a maioria Ampla se não tiver tomando em consideração as personas contra, mas a maioria Ampla pôssa tomada decisão de conjunto. 

Isso o fecho por aí comcordo também que seja o CI que toma essas decisões sobre que você é deliberado. então resumindo quarto ponto de programação a questão da análise de conjuntura o segundo ponto. Sobre o futuro do fórum, o terceiro sobre a estrutura e fim uma parte precises para os próximos passesos. Obrigated

xxSo I wanted, in a way, to agree with what was said to almost everyone.

The first point on the question of participation seems to me that this participation must be plural, broad, including the very fact that the IC does not represent diversity in the social movement and the importance of the struggles, in particular the analysis of the conjuncture. I agree with Sheila that participation is as sought after as possible.

 Now comes the de facto question of the budget the North African companion see van invites the sweet companion and the representative movements of the world struggles which can participate in it. What are these means? I reiterate to Sheila's question what are the possibilities, the companies of being able to invite many movements.

At the same time also recalling with Sheila taking the hook that her companion Francine said that we should also invite us and the intellectuals who have a participation are also activists who can have a contribution at this time more than ever we must show in the exclusion but understand that we are together programmed to be able to debate we know integrated intellectuals with contributions not giving more weight but also contributing in a common way.

I will continue the second. It's about the date issue. I think if at the beginning of September I agree with Mirek from the point of view of Brasí, it seems more appropriate.

the issue of programming that will be discussed. I agree with Sheila, I agree on that, we must also discuss first to have a broad analysis of the situation. The participation of a group of actors in the future of the World Social Forum must start from the accumulation of surplus collectives of proposals made, including by regional forums, thematic forums which must also have some opinion of the movements themselves on this future.

And the third item on the agenda of the seminar is the issue of structure, if I say Mirek, we have a very imperative structure and we actually have to make decisions

In this sense, I propose that the lilac group of the collegial secretariat itself, even if its tasks are not well defined, can already dialogue like the person of Tunisia with a great master in order to be able to resort even to a collective or representative of this group of the IC to organize this seminar, even that within the Seminar Structure Point we will have to be there to discuss the tasks of this collective of this group of collegial structure of collegial secretariat.

And I end my speech with the Punto of consensus at the IC The question that Leo Gabriele raised, again in the big discussion A favor finds Our way of working methodologically and politically we always end up with a group for and a group versus.

 And then, by our interpretation of the consensus which until then has been unanimous, we will be able to move forward we are not making a decision it can only be a big discussion As Leo says it is to re-signify the consensus and also to take the temperature of what on a point for example if the seminar is deliberative it is for example to see if there are 3 or 4 people for bringing the four people against and if the system 50 is really the majority for it to be deliberative we need. It is not a vote, but we have to feel the general feeling, otherwise it ends up being a minority dictatorship and we cannot continue in this direction.

I am for it to be deliberative but at least we can appreciate that the Large Majority does not take into account the personas who oppose it, but the Large Majority makes a decision as a whole.

That closes there, I also agree that it is the IC that makes these decisions on which you are deliberating. thus summarizing the fourth point of programming the issue of conjunctural analysis the second point. About the future of the forum, the third about the structure and end a part we need for the next steps. Thanks

 

@11 Tord 21mn The environment and climate movement and now organized these People's Forum Stockholm + 50 with a lot of global participation from all movements via campesina, trade unions, peace movement etc etc, and we were building very much on the context we made at the digital world social forum 2021.

40% of the speakers were young, and this has been developed further and has been strong European spring preparation for the social forum for the 2020 and 2022, and it seems that this experience is not understood not much.

 It's a sort of the kind of movement that is very clearly there in the world social forum. the declaration (of principles) is equally important: with the social relation we have a very clear statement concerning the relationship with human beings and nature as equally important. 

And I guess this is a key issue if we want to have a broader and younger participation in the social forum process, so a very different way of looking at how to make decisions, or how to prepare such a seminar, which I think is very useful, and especially if it's physical, in thinking in terms of movements. 

Which movements do we see as important and there we can have easier consensus. I guess nobody in this meeting is against via campesina as main movement to address . when it comes to trade union with no they are more they're not really on the side of the anti neoliberal labeled movements all the time, but anyway and told everyone agreed, that trade union is important the climate, and environmental movement, all agree , and certainly the lack of focus on the peace movement is now understood by each and everyone I guess as really important for any future of the world social forum .

We have word march of women, with the feminist we have more important than anything else maybe, the transition movement who added to the alter globalization movement a necessary focus on the local level , on doing things which I think everybody also agreed that this being essential . 

It was a mistake 20 years ago, when the focus was more ideological on anti or alter globalization, missing this point of the need for practical work, which has been really important in terms of the pandemic crisis. everyone started to understand the mutual help locally was importance everyone started doing something about that, so I think it's very necessary the preparation addressing the movements I hope we can contribute to that, 

Because, as we see in the environmental movement there is a continuity going on in all these processes, sometimes within this world social forum processes, sometimes it in the stockholm + 50, the program was well advanced and presented, contrary to the peace summit in Madrid, where there are some competition between different alternatives, and we saw some problem in Mexico as well, so I would say focus also on addressing specific main movements that are multi issue oriented, because without them we will never get any further.

This whole idea of ​​shopping mall where everyone is supposed to be their own specific issue is centrifugal…. Of course it's partly necessary, but th ey need to be a core when we are Movements that are experienced in linking daily life and national International Affairs.

Committee issues these movements are the most essential I would say, and we have been able to present in the European spring process, and bringing new people, and that is a core of the future for the world social forum, if we want any kind of strength in the future thank you.

xxThe environment and climate movement and now organized these People's Forum Stockholm + 50 with a lot of global participation from all movements via campesina, trade unions, peace movement etc etc, and we were relying a lot on the context that we have created at Social Digital World Forum 2021.

40% of the speakers were young, and this developed further and was strong in the European spring in preparation for the social forum for the years 2020 and 2022, and it seems that this experience is not well understood.

 It is a kind of movement that is very clearly present in the world social forum. the statement (of principles) is also important: with the social relationship we have a very clear statement regarding the relationship with human beings and nature as equally important.

And I guess that's a key question if we want to have a wider and younger participation in the social forum process, so a very different way of looking at how to make decisions, or how to prepare for such a seminar, which, I think, is very useful, and especially if it is physical, to think in terms of movements.

Which movements do we consider important and there we can have an easier consensus. I guess no one in this meeting is against via campesina as the main movement to address. when it comes to unions without they being more they're not really on the side of movements labeled anti neoliberal all the time but anyway and said everyone was in agreement union is important the climate , and the environmental movement, all agree, and certainly the lack of focus on the peace movement is now understood by everyone, I guess, to be really important to any future of the world social forum.

We have the women's word march, with the feminist that we have perhaps more important than anything else, the transitional movement that has added to the global justice movement a necessary focus on the local level, on achieving things that I think everyone also agreed that it was essential.

It was a mistake 20 years ago, when the emphasis was more ideological on anti or alterglobalization, to miss this point of the need for practical work, which was really important in terms of pandemic crisis. everyone started to understand that local self-help was important, everyone started to do something about it, so I think it's very necessary to prepare the movements. I hope we can contribute to it,

Because, as we see in the environmental movement, there is a continuity in all these processes, sometimes within this process of the world social forum, sometimes in Stockholm + 50, the program was well advanced and presented, unlike the summit of the peace of Madrid, where there is some competition between different alternatives, and we have also seen problems in Mexico, so I would say that we also have to focus on the main specific movements which are directed towards several problems, because without them, we will never go further.

This whole idea of ​​a mall where everyone is supposed to be their own specific problem is centrifugal… Of course it is partly necessary, but they have to be a core when we are movements that are used to linking daily life and national international affairs.

Committee issues, these movements are the most essential, I would say, and we have been able to present in the European spring process, and bring in new people, and this is a core of the future for the world social forum, if we want some kind of strength in the future thank you.

 

@12 Bartiria 27mn Quero saudar essa reunião aí suma importância ter sido convocada da reunião do mexico com um grupo já nos propusemos a debate para esse seminário como na proposta que estamos discussutimos queremos aprofundar ouvindo as falas aqui ouros important que os companheiros Já colocaram; reinforce a fala da Sheila como do Damien, mas acho important que o seminário ele tem um foco, tá colocado para ser discutido o rumo do Fórum Social, o que que nós queremos. 

Já conseguimos aqui em vários moments que o próprio se pit você no México no próprio pit a própria lenildo sei discuss muitas coisas mas comprehend that esse seminar é important para debater discuss questões que nos affligem. 

Se esse foro será o sujeito político que delibera, não delibera , uma outra questão coleção de ampliar mais movimentos populares, acho que não temos pouca participação dentro do CI acho que tem que ampliar, com a participação da Juventude também, que são uma outra debate também se colocou.

Estamos percebendo que a partir da reunião do México a gente trava um pouco esse debate, então é muito important hear para que esse seminário ? uma pauta e deliberar para essas questões levantadas. Entendendo aí eu concordo que não é pela minoria que se a prova se possível pela maioria, buscar o consenso sempre melhor. 

Se você não chegar ao Consenso, você vai analisar o que a maioria, que senão você nunca delibera nada , você sai de uma reunião e aí você fica sem saber porque você estava nessa reunião, um dia, owe dias, você não consegue avançar . 

Não consegue colocar questao, sao pautas important para o mundo, porque o Fórum Social Mundial trata de outro mundo possível. que eu heard entidade representada no México que é aliança internacional de habitantes em uma outra questão é que nós que tá muito sair daqui com bem mais preparando-nos organizando melhor, para preparar esse seminário Qual é a temática? Qual é a methodology? 

Está questao da infraestrutura porque também no México faith said that a participação do CI will be guaranteed. então que presenciaram é virtual e presencial porque senão você pode ter uma maioria ver uma minoria presencial grupo gente vai ser a descrição que não temos no méxico, uma participação presencial potente, incluído com todos os problems que temos de agenda de vários países, no Brasil com a questão eleitoral e não é pequena ea coisa. Não não é pequena é muito séria, são com governo fascista desgoverno para nós não Para nós ficar 3 o 4 dias fora é complicado.

Vamos se esforçar, seosse Início de setembro para nos é melhor já Vimos que de julho par nos ainda é possível gostaria de colocar essa questão da gente sair mais amarrada essa preparação é ser grupo ter uma agenda de reuniões, um calendário de reuniões, preparando e esses momentos de Quem não é do CI está o meu está participando, nessa metodologia a gente preparando isso para poder a gente avançar no objectivo desse seminário.

xx

I want to salute this meeting, it is extremely important to have been convened since the meeting in Mexico with a group. reinforce the speech of Sheila like that of Damien, but I think it is important that the seminar has a focus, that it is placed to discuss the direction of the Social Forum, of what we want.

We have already succeeded here several times that if it were you in Mexico it would be lenildo himself, I know how to discuss many things but we understand that this seminar is important to discuss and discuss the issues that plague us.

If this forum will be the political subject that deliberates, does not deliberate, another problem is a set of more popular movements expanding, I think we have little participation in the IC, I think it must be expand, with the participation of youth also, which are another debate also took place.

We notice that after the Mexico meeting, we have this debate a bit, so it is very important to understand why this seminar is an agenda and to deliberate on these issues raised. Understanding this, I agree that it is not to the minority that the proof is given, if possible by the majority, to seek an ever better consensus.

If you don't reach Consensus, you will analyze what the majority, otherwise you will never decide anything, you leave a meeting and then you don't know why you were at this meeting, one day, two days, you can't not advance.

It is not possible to ask questions, these are important orientations for the world, because the World Social Forum deals with another possible world, so I think it was a bit to say that it was doing also just a diagnosis, saying that the objective, at least in our understanding, is what I understand, the entity represented in Mexico, which is an international alliance of inhabitants, on another subject, it is that we are leaving here with much more preparation, better organized, to prepare for this seminar. the theme? What is the methodology?

It is a question of infrastructure because in Mexico too it was said that the participation of the IC would be guaranteed. so what they witnessed is virtual and in person because otherwise you can have a majority see a minority in person the people in the group will be the description we don't have in mexico a powerful presence participation including all the issues that we have on the agenda of several countries, in Brazil with the electoral issue and it is not small and the thing. No, it's not small, it's very serious, they are with the fascist government, mismanagement for us, staying away for 3 or 4 days, it's complicated.

Let's make an effort, if it was early September for us, it would already be better. and those moments when those who are not of the IC participate, in this methodology we prepare that in order to be able to advance in the objective of this seminar.

 

@13 Hamouda that's what you had to say Bartiria.

@14 Rosy 33mn No puedo abrir la cámara porque mi señal no está muy buena. Recordar también que este seminario es un seminario para reflexionar en torno el futuro del foro; Entonces yo por ahí puse en el chat que me parece que podemos discuss , de aquí a esa fecha cuáles son las disputes, cuál es el mundo que podemos, eso lo podemos empezar a discussir, prepararlos desde el Consejo Internacional algunos días al final del seminario al secretariado que necesitamos, y eso implicaría pensar la orgánica del foro la orgánica que dinamice y que articula los movimientos. 

Y estoy de acuerdo con Bartiria cuando habla que tenemos que tener una comisión y metodología, una comisión de logística, una comisión de presupuesto para este seminario, y ahí los compañeros de Túnez ya están avanzando por supuesto, y tenemos que hacer una convocatoria amplia a los movimientos que hemos creado estos diálogos estoy de acuerdo.

Temas previos al seminario, porque vamos a llegar, y entonces estoy de acuerdo también, no sé si Francine ya hablo porque, pero lo dijo en el texto que nos compartió de la importancia de convocar a compañeros intelectuales, pero también a los movimientos de base , convocatoria para que nadie se sienta excluido o excluida, que sea una convocatoria abierta a movimientos que están del Nuevo Mundo con alternativas Eso quería decir Hamoudar gracias. 

I cannot open the camera because my signal is not very good. We should also remember that this seminar is a seminar for reflection on the future of the forum; So I put in the chat that I think we can discuss, by then what are the disputes, what is the world we can, we can start discussing this, prepare them from the International Council a few days at the end of the seminar at the secretariat that we need, and that would involve thinking about the organization of the forum, the organization that energizes and articulates the movements.

And I agree with Bartiria when he says that we need to have a committee and a methodology, a logistics committee, a budget committee for this seminar, and there the colleagues from Tunisia are already making progress, of course, and we have to a broad appeal to I agree with the movements that created these dialogues.

Subjects before the seminar, because we are going to arrive, and then I also agree, I don't know if Francine has already spoken because, but she said it in the text that she shared with us on the importance of summoning fellow intellectuals, but also grassroots movements, appeal so that no one feels excluded or excluded, whether it is an open appeal to movements that are from the New World with alternatives That Hamoudar wanted to say thank you.

 

@15 Pierre 37mn Good first point: WHO is preparing this series of meetings? because I remind you that what we discover is that there is a seminar and an IC, two different things that will be articulated over time. Who prepares well we were told, and it is on the basis of that that the idea was accepted, that it was an ad hoc committee and not a secretariat . The secretariat will take care of some practical tasks, but it is the ad hoc committee whose list is still open was given by Hamouda on June 4, and we have still not seen an email list or a WhatsApp group. So I propose to create a WhatsApp groupwith the people who were listed by Hamouda, and that it remains open, but that this group exists. It's this Tunis preparation committee and it's not the secretariat, that's what we were offered, promised, announced in Mexico City, and that was reaffirmed at the June 4 meeting. So I would like to make it happen and I say I am ready to create the whatsapp group, it will take 10 minutes.

 

Second why? goals Yes I think what we expect is to clarify a facilitation architecture between groups that want to continue forum processes, and I speak in the plural . I think there is a tension, a complementarity between a common global process, on which we have two recent experiences, that of the virtual forum of 2021, which was rather positive, and that of the forum. let's say "with a physical base in Mexico", which was not positive, for different reasons.

This is the common process that interests everyone that it is global and we would like it to be easy to contribute to it, and for it to have forms that are not filtered by visas, by money, etc. So that's a first outing from the seminar. 

It is complemented by more local, regional, national, thematic social forum processes that have an easier stronger physical basis, not so simple if the region is large, if the theme is large, and participants in the forum process in general can participate in national thematic processes, a global process.

And I'm talking about a process and not an event. It seems to me that that's an obstacle, it's a barrier that needs to be worked on. 

So you have to come out with a facilitation architecture where people feel comfortable, and understand what principle governs this architecture. 

Secondly, we must go out with an organization of the IC as precisely facilitating both a common WSF process, and the dialogue between the social forum processes which are autonomous, so there is both, and I think that we must arrive at find both things. 

The current International Council was created around the World Social Forum event and that is where it has legitimacy, and I think we have to move towards including other processes, respecting their autonomy, and perhaps be to change the shape of the global process so that all those who want to contribute to it (to facilitate it) . 

What is most important is the energy of facilitation, and that is not something that we decree, or that we prescribe . These are collectives that come together and say “we want to facilitate, create and develop - we will see if it works or if it does not work - a Social Forum process.” And it is this energy that needs to be stimulated and (for which) to create a framework where people feel comfortable and respected in their autonomy. 

So that would be the objective, with an organization of the CI that would ensure that. So there is a kind of transmutation that can be worked on. We can discuss that.

And also there is a local expectation: That is to say that the Maghreb region, which invites, has expectations (on this seminar), but I think it is not to put on a show on the world situation it is expectations vis-à-vis the relevance of the Social Forum form, the use of which in the Maghreb-Mashreq region is not easy , and it is necessary to manage to articulate the international experience and the way in which the region considers, or not, and why, the mode of use of the space of the World Social Forum. So those are the goals. 

How? it seems to me that the third point is the chronology. I think there needs to be a written, long, careful, well-organized preparation by this committee , which is inclusive: everyone can write, and only within the framework, so we can share lists of topic of discussion for this preparation. 

And as part of this preparation; the committee meetings will go on defining what will be the agenda of the physical meetings in Tunis.

On the question of who will be able to participate, I think that all the promises that have been made, that it be very broad, I understood on June 4 that there is no budget, so we will have to look for it, so to for me, the situation is not rosy on that side, but good written preparation that is broad, inclusive, well organized, and lists of topics for discussion. And along the way, we will define the verbal discussions in Tunis.

I think, for example, that the analysis of the situation must be done in writing , it is completely counterproductive to pay, to bring people in, to listen for 30 minutes to someone giving a presentation that he can make in much better written form. 

So, from the written discussions, move towards programming the verbal discussion. 

On deliberation, I think the seminar doesn't have to be deliberative; people can give their opinion; on how they see the forum process; etc. and it is the IC - and there I see that there are other people who say the same thing - who will formulate precise questions to be deliberated on, on which to make decisions.

On the mode of decision, it seems to me that there is always this confusion: what do we decide? modes of facilitation of the forum process , we are not discussing the substance, we are not calling for this or that action, etc. We're going to work on the facilitation architecture, and that's why my organization maintains the idea of ​​consensus, because that's what keeps us together in our diversity. Afterwards, on the content discussions, the self-articulations are free, and therefore there are more questions of consensus. So I think we have to take limitations into account in our discussions . There are confusions that are inadvertently or voluntarily maintained:consensus is only about facilitative decisions. (and there is a discussion protocol that is not practiced carefully enough). 

So in any case after a certain time of online preparation, - I think it supposes an investment, to write contributions, to read them, to comment on them. - There will be a decision of the agenda of the seminar and of the agenda of the IC, with precise formulations on specific questions, and at that moment, in the IC, we will see what decisions are being taken.

As a very last point in terms of the date I think that obviously if you want a careful discussion, etc., it is better to have a later date. The date of the beginning of September is really short, at the end of September it would leave us three months / it is starting to be playable. And if it's in November why not?

I ask the question because, given that this IC does not give itself a real process work program, is there something that the IC has committed to facilitating in September, in October, in November? I haven't heard of it in Mexico. I think it would be good to have a WSF process that is alive and permanent, but today it is not in place, so I don't see the urgency today. It is better to decide with a deep, inclusive and careful dialogue, than to end up with three days where we will spend a day and a half talking about the international situation, when that is not the subject.

The question of the date and I'm open at the end of September, but I don't see what the problem would be with doing that at the end of November, because the IC hasn't given itself any work agenda other than preparing for this seminar.

Caritas, we have thought about a certain number of discussion topics , and we will broadcast them, either in the chat or on the CI list very soon, which are one proposal among other possible topics that can be treated in writing first , and that will already feed the collective reflection, and then the committee will obviously have other meetings and in these meetings, we will both animate this discussion in writing and prepare the agenda of the oral meetings and set the date. 

@16 Liege 49mn Or you will be objectiva apesar de não ser pego marcado o tempo ao início. 

Primeiro o seguinte: acho que esta reunião tem como objetivo dar encaminhamentos a que nos decidimos no México. Então thought that está em um aqui ela é para que nós descemos prosseguimento a que decidimos no México. No México acatando uma proposta da Tunísia da realization de um seminário, com a participação do CI e ampliada, para discuss o futuro do fórum, e também dentro dessa discussão do foro discuss o funcionamento do CI e dentro disso, a questão da implementação da secretaria collegiada. 

Então eu penso que o seguinte: isso foi a nossa decisão no México, nós teríamos que dá ver como que vamos implementar e realizar esse seminário . início de outubro, e segundo turno se houver, no final de Outubro. Para nós seria a melhor that pit no início de setembro.

Outra questão que foi levantada aqui por Sheila e por Bartéria no México, foi dito que teria esse orçamento para bancar participação do CI na Tunísia. Agora a se esta falando reunião hibrida, então isso precise ficar claro porque, para inclusive ver quem vai, quem não vai, como é, como deixa de ser, porque se ia ser pago a passagem hospedagem, aguarantee a participação de todos aí é uma coisa. 

porque, e aí concordo com Sheila que nós podemos ter owe moments: um momento que seria uma participação restrita: com os integrantes do CI, e uma parte que seria ampliada, com convidados, e que teríamos também que ter critérios que são esses convidados: Juventude, movimentos indígenas, movimentos negro, sindical, intelectualidade, então aí a gente precisaria definir os critérios para essa ampliação, e para esses convidados que participariam do seminário dos momento mais aberto de escuta, Porque pelo que intendo as deliberações dos consensos seria no âmbito do CI , para que as coisas poderes eram avançadas. 

Então penso que nós precisamos aqui ter claro isso: o objetivo do seminário é discuss o futuro do Fórum, de como melhorar cada vez mais o funcionamento do CI and como de immediately começar a implementação da secretaria colegiada.

 Claro que como foi falado com Bartiria, seria interessante se deram a comissão de metodologia, para se definir a agenda do seminário, vamos convidar pessoas para esta falando? quem seriam essas pessoas? acho que seria important ea outra é ter claro se vamos ter financiamentos o nao, para que as pessoas possam se programar, porque não vai dar, porque de última hora se tentar buscar financiamento para as pessoas, como foi dito para que se teria no México para bancar o CI pelo menos.

 Então thinks that aí devemos nos pautar por esse ponto de discuss o futuro do Fórum, de como vamos discuss um melhor funcionamento do CI, como vamos trabalhar a realização do seminário. Temos que definir uma data, porque ate a data do seminário, essa comissão de metodologia, junto com os companheiros da Tunísia para organizar o seminário, é fundamental que se reúna periodicamente. Não dá para fazer essa reuniao agora e so la no final de agosto ter outra. 

Nao. Go to ter que nos reunião a comissão de metodologia para que possa avançar na preparação do seminário, para que a gente possa de fato - um seminário começo, meio, e fim. “ ah Éimportant renovar o fogo Respective discuss das perspectivas que fica só apenas discussão, en não se tirara um planejamento de implementação das ações, como vamos ampliar, atingir outros movimentos, como que vamos, o que que nos queremos, com esse dito futuro do fórum, essa questão tem que ser debatidos e aprofundados no seminário. 

Por isso precise uma comissão de metodologia atuante que possa de fato compatibilizar com conjunto do CI, para que o conjunto do CI seja mobilizado, para participar do seminário, aqueles e aquelas que estão afastado, vamos mobilizar los para participar do seminário, para contribuir com a discussão, e ouvir as diversas posições que possam existir No que diz respeito ao futuro do fórum.

Então penso que tem temos que ir avançando nessa discussão, porque esse já foi decidido no México a realização do seminário para discuss o futuro do fórum, para discussi di como utilizamos como funcionamento do CI, como implementar a secretaria colegiada, e também tem que ficar Claro vai ter ou não vai ter financiamento para os todos os members do CI Por que hoje se levantou a questão do híbrido, híbrido para quem? precisamos include vamos ampliar com quem? essays questões precisam ser definidas.

 xx Or am I going to be objective even if I was not timed at the start.

First this: I think this meeting aims to give orientations to what we decided in Mexico. So he thinks that it is in one here that it is a question for us of descending according to the one that we decided in Mexico. In Mexico, by accepting a proposal from Tunisia to organize a seminar, with the participation of the IC and enlarged, to discuss the future of the forum, and also within the framework of this discussion of the forum to discuss the functioning of the IC and in this context, the question of setting up the collegial secretariat

So I think the following thing: it was our decision in Mexico, we should see how we are going to set up and carry out this seminar at the beginning of October, and second round, if there is one, at the end of October. For us it would be best if it was early September.

Another issue that was raised here by Sheila and Barteria in Mexico was that there would be this budget to fund IC participation in Tunisia. Now, if you're talking about a hybrid meeting, then it has to be clear because even to see who's going, who's not, how it is, how it ceases to be, because if the hosting ticket had to be paid for, ensuring everyone's participation is one thing.

because, and then I agree with Sheila that we can have two moments: a moment which would be a restricted participation: with the members of IC, and a part which would be enlarged, with guests, and that it it would also be necessary to have criteria who are these guests: young people, indigenous movements, black movements, trade unions, intellectuals, then it would be necessary to define the criteria of this enlargement, and for these guests who would participate in the seminar of the moment of listening the most open, because from what I understand the consensus deliberations would be within the framework of the IC, so that the powers that be would get things done.

I therefore think that it is necessary to specify here: the purpose of the seminar is to discuss the future of the Forum, how to improve more and more the functioning of the IC and how to immediately begin to set up the collegiate secretariat.

 Of course, as discussed with Bartiria, it would be interesting if they had a methodology committee, to define the agenda of the seminar, are we going to invite people to speak? who would these people be? I think that would be important and the other is to be clear whether we're going to have funding or not, so people can program themselves, because it's not going to work, because at the last minute if you're trying to get funding for people, as was said for what you would have in Mexico to fund at least the IC.

 So think we should be guided by this point to discuss the future of the Forum, how we are going to discuss a better functioning of the IC, how we are going to work on holding the seminar. It is necessary to fix a date, because until the date of the seminar, this committee of methodology, with the comrades of Tunisia to organize the seminar, is essential that it meets periodically. It is not possible to have this meeting now and only at the end of August to have another one.

Not. We're going to have to meet with the methodology committee to move forward with the preparation of the seminar, so that we can actually - a beginning, middle and end seminar. “Ah it is important to renew the respective fire to discuss the perspectives which are only discussions, and not to take a plan for the implementation of actions, how are we going to extend, to touch other movements, how are we doing, what do we want, with this so-called future of the forum, this question must be debated and deepened in the seminar.

This is why we need an active methodology committee that can effectively make it compatible with the IC group, for the IC group to mobilize, to participate in the seminar, those who are absent, let us mobilize them to participate in the seminar , to contribute to the discussion, and listen to the different positions that may exist regarding the future of the forum.

So I think we have to move forward in this discussion, because it was already decided in Mexico to organize a seminar to discuss the future of the forum, to discuss how we use the IC to operate, how to implement place the collegial secretariat, and of course there must also be funding for all CI members. Why has the question of hybrids arisen today, hybrids for whom? we must include develop with whom? these questions need to be defined

 

@17 Ian 57mn, Hello everyone, it's great to see you again from the World Social Forum in Mexico. So to bring our point of view, mine and that of ATTAC, sometimes only mine for the moment, because it is also necessary to speak about it within the association more deeply.

but I think that, beyond the future of the World Social Forum, it is obvious that this seminar will address the future of alterglobalism and the future of internationalism in a more global way, and for me, the WSF finally n is just one expression of this form of alter-globalization , and I think we have to take that into account when we are going to debate the future of the World Social Forum.

Then beyond that we have already started to make contacts, a bit like Tord it seems, with the climate movements. We work on a daily basis with whom we are already doing mobilizations for the climate, climate and social justice, young movements. We also made contact with certain representatives of the Confédération paysanne, the campesinos union of the via campesinas as well. 

So here is. the question of the date arises. I think it is essential now we have to go on this subject and we have two options: either we do it at the beginning of September, or I think we do it at the beginning of November, that is to say after the Brazilian election, and then the question arises, do we do it before the COP or after the COP, because it must also be taken into account for the climate movements, after the COP it will be interesting, because we will have a storytelling on will be able to say “once again the cops have failed and it is time for the climate movements…” and me, alterglobalism and all the other movements that want another world come together and talk together, and that could be interesting I think that In this case, the subject will no longer be the future of the WSF. 

In short, both dates have their advantages: September is interesting because it's now, but it's too early to mobilize enough people in any case, if we want to mobilize other movements. We see it as complicated and from a European point of view, it's going to be summer, there are a lot of things being organised; summer camps etc. it's going to be a little complicated to organize that now, for the beginning of September anyway, it's back to school here, it's always a little complicated. 

For us, if we want to widely mobilize youth for climate, La Via Campesina, Extinction Rebellion, all our partners, we should do it early November. So. 

Afterwards, if it's September, it's not that bad, but in my opinion, it will just have to be seen as a stage, a first stage of discussion, before moving on to something else, but it can't be an end in itself, for me this first seminar, if it is only in September.

Honestly, I don't think there will be enough of us, and also, as Liège puts it very well, for the question of financing, the problem of financing, if our Tunisian friends do not have, do not manage to finance everything, we , we have to give them a hand. We have to create a facilitation commission for financing, and in that case, it also takes a little time to call the donors, and others, to put a little money in common possibly, it is also a process that takes time.

So, if we want it to be a stage, we can do it in September, if we agree that it's a stage everyone, we can do it in September, if we want it to be something more importantly, in this case, it must be done more for me in November, and in this case, see if it is before or after the coop. At least not during the COP that's for sure, otherwise we won't have climate movements. 

Me then on the question of consensus, because we talk about decisions we talk a lot if it should be deliberative and all that, I see it very complicated, to say that it is deliberative. If we bring youth for climate, Via Campesina, extinction of any great movement, if we go there and tell them the decisions we make here they apply to everyone, they will laugh and let's be honest, even we will laugh. No one is going to impose anything on us, we are already in networks in links. 

So it's very complicated to do something deliberative, apart from consensus of course. Afterwards, if something is built, decided, it interests a majority of people, it can be a self-organized initiative , as Pierre said. We've seen that, there's no problem, but let's be very concrete, it's impossible to impose on movements that already have their life, their daily lives, and that do a lot of things, whatever it may be. It has to be clear to everyone: if it's about the discussion on the future of the WSF, it's of course very interesting that they participate in it, but once again, if we want the movements to continue to involved, they must be in consensusthey must all be in agreement, otherwise little by little, what is happening now will happen, that is to say that the WSF will empty itself of its energies and its forces. So. Surely there is a lot to say but we can talk later.

@18 Jeanne 1h03 I will quickly introduce myself, because I have never spoken in this space. I have participated in the forum since 2003, I worked for a long time at Attac France. I worked for a long time at Attac France, I participated in several CIs with Geneviève or with others, and there I was in Mexico, and I now work for the Rosa Luxembourg Foundation in the new office which has moved to Geneva, therefore, really on international issues, and I on issues of social rights. So. I participated in a part of the CI in Mexico.

What I would like to say is that we took the discussion a bit in all directions, we have 5 questions that need to be answered. The question of “where” has already been answered the question of “when, who, what, and how”. 

Of course we are not going to answer everything today, I think that on the question of who and what, it really hinges. If we decide to hold a seminar, I will be very clear, on the functioning of the secretariat or the facilitation architecture, or even, the debate should the IC take a position, or sign texts, I think it It is illusory to imagine that we are going to have new players, people who have come and left the Forum, young people.

I think you really have to think about the content of what you want to discuss during the seminar, also depending on who you want to be present. On the question of who, I think it was said, it is very important to go and contact the networks which were there, which were important and which were present, which left, perhaps organizations which have used to participate in the WSF, but who are not necessarily in the IC, the youngest, of movements, of trying to have a geographical representation that is a little more balanced, but that cannot be decreed.

We are going to make an appeal, but it is not obvious that just the appeal that we will launch, there will be a positive response , in particular from the movements that sometimes participate or do not participate in the forum, and that we believe that it would be important for them to be there. So I think it is important to ask the question of who and that we go further: how do we make this network there, etc.

Then in relation to the question of content is important. You really need to have a discussion about the global political context . This is important because the challenges are different from when the forum was created etc. I think that we must above all discuss what this means as an issue in relation to our movements , and what are the needs of our movements. I would use the sentence that Francine put in her text “do the world or our movements need a social forum and if so which one”.

(fundamental point : the process space of the forum is a generic process of voluntary communication in a facilitated process space, it is not a movement - either we think this type of facilitation action is useless, or we think that it is useful and we may want to facilitate it - and it is the quality of the process and the response in terms of participation over time (with the notion of added value perceived by the participants, which gives the response of relevance 

 I don't think you should imagine doing the same thing as 20 years ago . There may be things to learn from the movements that have since emerged, in terms of forms of organization, in terms of new themes, etc. I'll take the example of the climate movement: we more or less succeeded in bringing it into the forum, but not in a very spectacular way either. I think there is a particular issue. I see a few 3 issues that really arise for the forum and the movement, this openness to new forms of organization, representation, etc. 

To take an example: if we do an open seminar, it works and there are new people or people we haven't seen for a long time but the next day, we do a CI and it's the CI and only the CI who will make the decision following this seminar is a bit what that means, it may be complicated to manage later. That's why I think that if this meeting, if it's wide open, it should be conceived as a stage , that's what Ian was saying: it doesn't matter if it's at the beginning of September or at the beginning of November suggested Ian. If we consider that it's a stage, afterwards, we will still propose things, spaces that will remain open.

On the second challenge, there is a real question to be asked about the internationalist dimension of our organizations in general, I think that the effects of the crisis since 2008, the rise of authoritarianism, have meant that our movements as a whole have really refocused on national or local issues . And there is a real question to ask in this seminar, on “what are the needs on an international scale for our movements, for movements in general”. And I think we have answers to that. There is a need for an international space, I am convinced of that, but I think we have to ask ourselves this and collectively.

And the third challenge, in my opinion, is the question of digital and the development of all online dynamics, the connection or through this, does it pose a real question to our forum as a physical space . 

Here I think that we really need to work on this question of who we want in this seminar and why, and that we think about it in an articulated way. 

The last dimension is the how, and on that, I think that there is real work to be done, probably not today, but in the preparation, on the preparation of the seminar, on its animation so that in particular in a hybrid dynamic, we know that it is quite complicated, so we have to think about this question. How the seminar will be able to work, of course translation, interpretation, and funding. 

And the funding I think we have to be careful, that is to say if there is limited funding and it is only intended for people who are members of the IC, that clearly poses a problem . So I think that somewhere we should give more priority to people who would have less interest in participating, or the youngest, different movements, and that we really have to keep some funding so that this person that we wants them to be there can come. In September it can take place, it's not very big, but it's a stage, and at the beginning of November, or later at the end of November, after with the Tunisian elections it can be complicated, it can be another option. Thanks.

@19 Leo 1h10 - A point of clarification on this very controversial point if the seminar is deliberative or not, obviously we must pass on the principles that we share everything. I found it ridiculous that on the first day of the International Council in Mexico they did not agree to condemn wars, because the forum cannot decide. There was a mobilization that is taking place at the moment, we have just had a fabulous meeting against nuclear weapons in Vienna, and there will be today and tomorrow a kind of vague Round Table around the world , which was an idea that the virtual World Social Forum in 2021 brought forward, and where we gather opinions from different time zones around the world. I don't see why it couldn't have been done within the framework of the World Social Forum,and that would have given prestige, but with this thing that the forum cannot talk about, it's I don't find it very difficult to have, especially in global things, launched mobilizations from the World Social Forum, that's one thing . 

And the other thing I agree with Mirek really let's not extend the term of this seminar I completely agree that it should be the first half of September, because otherwise it automatically becomes bureaucratic, at the end we is not discussing the next World Social Forum, if not the seminar which has as its axis the future of the World Social Forum, and there, and it is important that there are people who participate, who at some point have participated in the process. That is to say I am very strongly in favor of the beginning of September and I share the opinion that the elections are not a reason to delegate things thank you. 

IC decided to do the wsf2021 online)

@20 Carminda 1h14 In fact I would like to intervene on the who and the how. I agree with Tord with Ian and with the people who said the importance of benefiting from the gaze of youth organizations, environmental organizations, movements that are not currently in the dynamics of social forums . I think we can learn from these people right now. So that would be really important, and I would like to emphasize the importance of the presence of the social forums that exist. 

The local, regional, thematic social forums are people who already have a very advanced reflectionwhat are forums, what is the methodology of forums, what are the objectives of forums, and me personally, I think I could benefit from hearing them when we talk about the future of the forum. It speaks to me really essential, it would really be one of the target audiences, if we want to call it that. Obviously all the other movements, whether they are active or not present, in particular young people among others, I believe that there are also important stages for the mobilization of these people. We've already started in the chat, it's really important to do a mapping, indeed, because I think that with the people who are present today, the people, the other people of the International Council, we can go reach organizations and movements that are not present, 

I think we have to get out a call quickly , also I think it's a little bit on the way from the efforts of Maghreb friends who are moving forward on this call. I think it's important to get out as soon as possible when we decide on the date, and include the perspective of the forums as an important perspective that we would like to have in this seminar. And I believe that we need to have a small working group that questions itself a little, as Jeanne mentioned, on how to reach and how to resonate in the ears of these movements and these organizations. So that was for the who.

I would also like to intervene on the how, on the methodologies that we could adopt during this seminar, in order to be able to have a meaningful moment of exchange. I think it's interesting to have plenary moments, as we usually do, as we do at the moment, but I think we would also benefit from having periods of work in small groups where we could reinforce reflection, or dig a little deeper into certain reflections.

And so we could break up, talk about the functioning of the IC, the integration of new perspectives, and other topics that might be of interest to the seminar in small groups, and then come back to do a broader reflection in plenary.on the different subjects, and to be able to bring the views of other people who would not have taken part in the small group, but to be able to build, because yes it is important the moments in plenary when everyone listens to each other, but when we has a discussion where everyone speaks one after the other, it's really very difficult to dig into certain subjects. So I really encourage that we have moments of group work during the seminar, and that these groups can bring back and bring a deeper perspective for a plenary discussion that would also take place during the seminar. 

And I would also like to add that I think it is important to talk about the operation of the CI indeed, of the collegial secretariat, that too, of the integration of new perspectives, as I mentioned, and I believe that it is important, like several people mentioned, to talk about the world situation, 20 years after the start of the World Social Forum. And I believe that indeed it is a reflection that can also be made and shared upstream. It means having written contributions upstream, even video contributions upstream, so take a little longer than what we would have during the seminar. I'm not saying that the question of the situation should be eliminated during the seminar, quite the contrary, I believe that it would be important to have more input upstream in writing and on video, because we could circumscribe a a little about the current situation and go a little more in depth on the themes that we are going to discuss together. 

I'm almost done. I would also like to reiterate the importance of hybrid participation, although I agree 100% that we need to see each other, and that I hope that many of us can see each other in person in Tunis. But I think we still have to take this story of hybridization seriously: how can we do to take into consideration in such an important way the people who are going to be online, and who for various reasons have not been able to travel. We could think about maybe a facilitation also online, to be sure that the people who raise their hand online are taken into consideration. I know that there are some people who felt that they were not taken into consideration during the last IC meeting in Mexico. In short, to be able to take it seriously. 

And the last thing I want to say, it's a bit like Jeanne, reiterating the importance of the process of this seminar, that means upstream preparation, super important as Olé said, how we can do to feed what is going happen during the seminar already upstream. Obviously, the importance of the face-to-face seminar accompanied online and also these are the next steps, because we will not be able to regulate all the steps in the seminar, we must be clear on that. So how do we continue. Thank you very much .

@21 Sheila 1h20 Minha fala é muito rápida. São so 2 Pontos muito rápido. Primeiro com relação a ser o não deliberativo, na reunião do México or que ficou decidido é que seria a reunião do CI in forma de seminário, e que poderiam ser convidados movimentos sociais enfim outros atores que não necessariamente fazem parte do CI. Por isso a ideia de ser moments com so o CI para que possa ser deliberativo e momento de escuta mais ample, de alimentação desse processo, mas não foi colocada a possibilidade de nos deslocar para Tunes para a reunião que não seja deliberativa. Primeiro.tem.que ser deliberativa é a reunião do CI em forma de seminário com tema único o futuro do Fórum. 

De outra coisa então é que varias pessoas nas falas tem duvidas se realmente qu'fait colocado no México está valendo, teremos recursos para todos se participar presencialmente na Tunísia. Gostaria de ouvir o grupo de magreb o aAlaa eo Kamal em relação a isso, porque se não for dependendo quantas pessoas poderão ser levadas para tunis, talvez a gente precise repensar a realização de seminários presencialmente enfim Então gostaria de ouvir os companheiros do Magreb em relação a recursos para realizar esse seminário presencialmente em Tunis. So isso Obrigada. 

My speech is very fast. It's only 2 Points very fast. Firstly, with regard to the non-deliberative character, at the Mexico meeting it was decided that it would be an IC meeting in the form of a seminar, and that the social movements could be invited, in short, other actors who are not necessarily part of the IC. This is why the idea of ​​having moments with the IC so that it can be deliberative and a moment of broader listening, to feed this process, but the possibility of traveling to Tunis for a meeting which is not not deliberative was not mentioned. Deliberative First.must.be is an IC meeting in the form of a seminar with a single theme: the future of the Forum.

Another thing is that several people in the speeches have doubts if really what was put in Mexico is valid, we will have resources for everyone if they participate in person in Tunisia. I would like to hear from the Maghreb group, aAlaa and Kamal on this, because if it does not depend on the number of people who can be taken to Tunis, it might be necessary to rethink the holding of in-person seminars anyway. Maghreb comrades regarding the resources to hold this seminar in person in Tunis. That's all. Thanks.

 

@22 Hamouda 1h24 We will give the floor to Alaa at the beginning on the question of financing, I think it is important to clarify this point of financing, that is to say: what is the budget there? has ? Can the budget take council people? can he take the accommodation? can he take 50% of the tickets, the price of the tickets? That's all Alaa. Can you answer this question with Maher?

And after the second question. compared to the seminar I think we decided in Mexico is very clear it is an international seminar which is organized by the International Council with the movements to discuss the future of the forum . This was the first stage of this seminar which was on the question of the future of the forum The second stage which was discussed in Mexico was in relation to the secretariat of the IC itself and the function of the IC, the tasks of the IC, and the IC commissions.

So I think those 2 points were discussed in Mexico. It was the objective to put the international seminar in two stages. the stage for talking about the future of the forum and a stage where we talk about the functioning of the CI. How it must function with this new international context after 20 years and all that.

 I think that's what we discussed in Mexico, what came out of that discussion, we discussed that we needed a context, and as everyone said, and carminda has it well said at the end: there must be preparation documents, upstream work, like what Francine proposed and like others, that is to say that people can write. We need writing, we need memory, we need reflection, and that these reflections arrive before the seminar.

But to prepare all that, what Bartiria said is that we need this group, normally this meeting today, it is the ad hoc committee that has been created to organize the seminar, so the proposals from a methodology group, from all the groups to be able to prepare the seminar: mobilization group. The question of the hybrid is important for people who cannot come or who are far away, who cannot take the plane, or the movements that we cannot support.

I think that's the working group, normally after this meeting today we have to have another date to work on the content: how the content is going to be done, who is going to write the content, and all that. 

Regarding the decision of the deliberative IC the word to make decisions, I think it is up to the council to make these decisions , is it deliberative or consensual or something like that. 

We are going to make decisions that should be put into practice, that is to say, what we criticize is that the discussion we have had for 2 years now from virtual to virtual is that the majority of decision that we drag to the next meeting we are going to discuss the same things we are not going to make a decision, we are going to move on to something else, and we are going to continue the work. I think it's important to sit on that, to stay on our objective today, which is the seminary, the organization of the seminary.

There are two proposed dates: the September date, early September that everyone, almost 50% of the people agree that it should be September and as Ian said, it's maybe the first meeting, this seminar that we can start already, and when we are going to be in Tunis, we will decide on a meeting schedule in 3 months in Brazil, in two months in Dakar, we don't know, it will depend funding. 

If we all agree on that, I would like to give the floor to Alaa on the financing, to decide on another date to work on the methodology. We almost all agree that there is a forum seminar, a discussion on the structure of the IC and its commissions, how to make decisions. Are we going to continue on this? and the format, there is a format that Carminda proposed: to have plenaries on subjects that we are going to decide; 

Pierre said that he was going to send subjects, it is up to this group to decide on the themes and to have ad hoc working groups that will be set up and continue and deepen the decisions that will be taken. If we all agree on that, I'll give the floor to Alaa and Kamal;

@23 Alaa   For all those who host as said the other time, we have funding for the hybrid part. we are also looking for the translation. On the question of accommodation, normally we can provide accommodation for the participants, as Jeanne said, perhaps it is good to think about either part of the plane tickets for the actors from the South, social movements that are not able to move and sometimes even follow online or in hybrids.

I think that we will also try to make an appeal to the partners so that they can also support the actors, their associates and partners and bring them to this seminar . So we're going to continue to work, I think that for us, in order for it to make our job of looking for funding easier, it's to have to set the date once and for all, and to be decisive on the date, and of at least two that we begin to make a first paper of methodology to constitute a solid file to seek financing.

 

@24 Hamouda just to be sure Alaa to understand people well, that is to say that the Maghreb accommodation committee is assured there is no problem. Second is the ticket office: is there money for tickets for the whole IC and for certain movements that we want to invite, where there is only a part that we is looking for another part to be able to take care of everything. Is it going to be a 100% ticket or a 60% ticket or a 50% ticket. Just so we can answer people's questions that have been asked.

@25Alaa it's the second hypothesis: we're going to look for some of the plane tickets, but honestly we can't insure all the plane tickets for the moment

@26 Maher 1h32 if everyone agrees that we will start for the beginning of September because it is the right date for Tunis because we will perhaps have elections in December so November would be a bit difficult in the local context

Coming back to the contributions of the comrades, I think we agree on two points: that we need an analysis of the situation 20 years after the evolution of our activity and the changes that the world has undergone is a rather interesting period loaded with movement, loaded with change loaded with twists and turns. This economic and global analysis but it can also be broken down into regions so we can have regional economic analyzes Maghreb-Mashreq Europe Africa Latin America it depends on the times that will be present and participants. 

I think we agree everyone is worried and sometimes perplexed and asks what should we do? How should we approach our approach to give a second life to our dynamic World Social Forum? Do we drop this format and engage in other internationalist internationalist struggles? or perhaps also of international solidarity that it trade union, associative human rights activists for climate justice and we consider that the WSF the most an adequate effective framework for our fights. 

Or we can say to ourselves that yes the WSF still remains an adequate framework for our fights, if so what should we do with our charter what should we do with our structures what should we do with our way of approaching the subjects that should we also do about the dynamics that are created alongside us, that is to say the purely political dynamics .

And I think we also agree that it is necessary to articulate the debates and the discussions International Council but also the dynamics which will open on the movements to deactivate it is also on the intellectuals of the researchers who are in full reflection whether in the field of sociological and philosophical anthropological economic thoughts and which can be very useful to us at this moment of reflection, which also requires a contribution of multidisciplinary reflection.

I end with a proposal that we are going to keep for the two or three days on which we are going to organize ourselves, the possibility of also having open conferences open to the public open in a hybrid or media way, to give the possibility of expressions the most global the most holistic which analyze the world situation and the forms of current resistance in the world. 

It's necessary everyone agrees everyone that we have to see each other soon I hope that we will see each other as much as possible face-to-face, but if there are possibilities of bringing together comrades , friends by the hybrid formula, it will be necessary, but certainly it will not be a World Social Forum with hundreds of participants. I think it's going to be a two or three day seminar meeting. it will not exceed dozens of participants, in order to be able to agree on subjects that have long been debated.

(memory of monastir ten years ago) 

 

@27 Kamal 1h36 I know that the bulk of the work will be done, at least financially, by our Tunisian friends. So it is a question of taking into account one of Alaa's remarks, namely the meeting of the unions. This is already an important opportunity to involve the unions . 

What I understood until today is that, according to remarks I heard a part ago, and we will not necessarily agree on that, on a little l appreciation of the overall situation at world level, but it is good to listen a little to the different approaches, so there will be intellectuals etc.

Second is a specific discussion on the future of the forums, including their thematic or regional dimension, that goes without saying. Which brings us both to ask ourselves questions on the question of renewal, on the question of the inclusion of new themes, or new movements , to know how to do it.

And I believe that the third element is the whole working methodology which will also be posed at this level. 

I am sincerely in doubt about the number of the CI I do not know it, I do not know therefore, contrary to what Maher says, it is necessary to think of a meeting which does not fall below 200 organizations , in all the case in point, including taking into account a bit of a fundamental element, it is that the meeting in Tunisia imposes on us a mobilization at the level of the region, because Tunisia is close to our hearts, because Tunisia is a laboratory, because we live in Tunisia every day 

We will necessarily have to mobilize a certain number of organizations in the region so that they can closely witness that it is this international council, this important body that manages social movements on a planetary scale. 

It would be good if they could know that there could be a fundamental moment, the North African question particularly that there could be a specific moment of meeting on the strategy to be deployed in the Maghreb. 

To recap, this means that tomorrow, at the level of Morocco, we must try to find funds to ensure this presence of at least 200 international organizations, including intellectuals , etc., but we expect this committee and this commission to it can give us more clarity, more visibility on what is going to be discussed.

I don't want to interfere on the question today, of the prerogatives or the formula that the International Council will take. I totally agree fully and completely and without reservation with Ian's intervention, and we will go in this direction in any case if the discussion arises at this level . So thank you very much.

@28 Hamouda 1h40 If we all agree, there will be a creation of this committee there, of a WhatsApp, Pierre will take care of it, he has volunteered for the creation of this group of people who have participated today. That's the committee, it's open.-.

 Our next meeting will be as close as possible to define the methodology of this seminar on the future with all the themes that will be there, the format and the whole kit. 

There are still discussions about the dates: is it the beginning of September? is it the end of September? Is it November? we have to make a decision now, because the most important thing for us in the region is, as Kamal has just said, we have to look for more funding if we want to have the Council, more movements to attend this meeting. So I think there are some who are not very hot to have at the beginning of September, because they find that it is very close.

I'm a little , because the proposal that Ian made to do the two-step thing, that is to say to do a first step in the future of the forum, and to see what it will give, and to bring it out with a step-by-step schedule of the continuation . It's a way to start the process already, and to start the discussions. The ideal is to be face-to-face if there are fewer people in hybrid that would be ideal too, but our objective is for us to be together and to be face-to-face without forgetting to give a helping hand to the hybrid to be able to move forward. 

Will maybe the dates of September 23 24 25 as Rosy just said. Is it feasible for everyone and acceptable for everyone? At that time, we will take advantage of the opportunity, as Alaa said earlier to have the unions, there will be all the African unions which will be present in Tunisia So take advantage of this opportunity there, that there is already the African trade union movement which is present in this discussion. 

The other thing we have a problem with Ian just putting it in the chat is that our Brazilian friends are very engaged in the electoral process. I know it bothers people but that's how it is, our Brazilian friends want to lend a hand in the upcoming elections. So the end of September is a little too short for them, but if they can say it's ok end of September 23 24 25 September, so we can start the process without delay, because that's the most important thing we don't want it to block, we want it to move forward, we're on a momentum, 

And as you know in our region we are in summer, many people are on vacation. they are going out on vacation. There are a lot of activities in July: I know that attac have their Summer University activity. There are a lot of things going on in the area. Do we keep it, do we decide that it's half September 16 17 18, but something has to be done as soon as possible. 

I think it's September, we have to decide which date in September to start the process, and decide by next week the next methodology group meeting in relation to that and this methodology group will be declined in mobilization, in hybrid, and so on.

The most important thing for us in the region is the dates so that we can start our work, please.

@ 29 Maher the union gathering is for when

@30 Alaa is September 25 26 27. there will be two meetings in Tunisia the union gathering and the gathering of an international network called artist in danger which will also meet in Tunisia at the end of September

@31 Liege for the Brazilian Hamouda this date of the 25th is very complicated. It's a week before the elections in Brazil

@32 Pierre Reunion ITUC is 25 26 27? so 22 23 24 because if we are not going to do the Reunion at the same time, they will give priority to their meetings If we want to benefit from the presence of the ITUC it has to be just before or just after, but not during

@33 Hamouda the proposals that there is now on the table the proposal of 16 17 18 September and the proposal of Césare and it is good to do it at the end of September because the elections are the first October week in Brazil so the ideal for them is the first week of September, that's what I understood 

@34 Pierre if we take into account the Brazilians so much to do in November we will see more clearly

@35 Lieg e the first half of September for us is better 

@36 Pierre otherwise we start with the idea of ​​the first step, but that's something else

@37 Hamouda yes I think it 's the best solution, it's Ian's proposal, if we don't want to go until November, we're doing a first step for the month of September , and d here decide a second step. Maybe will be in another country since that's how it is.

@38 Maher so it's 16 17 18?

@hamouda the proposal the first fortnight at the end of September our friends from Brazil prefer the first fortnight.

@39 Pierre 1h49- Eu vou lhe perguntando não intendo bem porque se vamos para uma primeira etapa para uma na primeira etapa é um Marco diferente, mas depois das eleições a situação no Brasil will be muito esclarecida Imagino que também seria interessante para os brasileiros estar depois das eleições.

@40 sheila- Eu pedi em que momento foi decided que faríamos em duas etapas o deslocamento para outro continente. Uma vez no semester, já não é fácil. our estamos pensado agora em duas etapas?

Eu sugiro, se for o caso, que a gente passa para novembro mas que faça em um etapa so ficar no mais dias 4 dias se for o caso mas não duas etapas A participação presencial com certeza que vai ficar compromise quantas organização conseguem se deslocar duas have you? a busca por recursos pelo que heard ainda vai ser feita, então talvez fazemos em novembro, possa garantie uma participação de mais pessoas possa ter um tempo maior. 

@41Tiburcio-1h51mn Vamos fazer em 2025 é melhor! time tempo! não vamos protelar mais, tem 10 anos que esta se esperando isso , pelo amor de Deus, para 25 de Janeiro vamos marcar em setembro. Esse negócio de duas etapas a gente resolve - não tem negócio de duas etapas, o seminário tem uma metodologia a ser discutida ainda. We will guarantee a data and fazer o esforços para realizar.

@42 Liege sim Nao pode to guarantee, na primeira semana de Novembro qual é o problema? Não estou intendendo Tibúrcio.

@43 Tiburcio can guarantee 2025 tambem!

@44 Liege pera aí Tibúrcio ninguém tá aqui brincando não 

@45 Tiburcio Estamos adiando esse problema ser problema 10 a nos tunisianos se dispõem a bancar, a gente aprovou no México. Era Julio, passarmos para Setembro, agora Novembro. Claro que a tendência é protelar. Vamos evitar isso pelo amor de Deus. 

xx@39 Pierre 1h49- I'm going to ask you I don't understand why if we go to a first stage for a first stage it's another milestone, but after the elections the situation in Brazil will be very clear I imagine it would be also be interesting for Brazilians to be after elections.

@40 sheila- I asked when it was decided that we would move to another continent in two stages. Once in the semester, it's not easy. Are we now thinking in two stages?

I would suggest if appropriate we move to November but do it in one leg only stay 4 days longer if applicable but not 2 legs Face to face attendance will definitely be compromised as many organizations manage to travel twice ? the search for resources from what I understand is still going to be done, so maybe we will do it in November, it can guarantee more people's participation can have more time.

@41Tiburcio - 1h51mn Let's do it in 2025 it's better! It's time ! Let's not delay any longer, we've been waiting for this for 10 years, for the love of God, on January 25, let's schedule it in September. We are solving this case in two steps - there is no two-step case, the seminar has a methodology yet to be discussed. We will guarantee the date and make the effort to achieve.

@42 Liège yes I can't guarantee it, the first week of November, what's the problem? I don't understand Tiburcio.

@43 Tiburcio can also guarantee 2025!

@44 Liege wait a minute Tibúrcio nobody plays here

@45 Tiburcio We report this problem being a 10 year problem Tunisians are willing to pay for it, we approved it in Mexico. It was Júlio, moving to September, now November. Of course, the tendency is to procrastinate. Let's avoid that for the love of God.

 

@46 Cesare 1h52mn - Sí creo que todos nosotros tendermos que ser más humbles y trabajar. Estamos hablando demasiado desde hace años. Soy syntético y puede ser duro. Entonces no vale la pena posponer otra vez, vale la pena trabajar, aprovechamos este tiempo muy sencillamente para decir es Septiembre perfecto: desde hoy hasta tal día, vamos a trabajar para todo lo que no ha sido hecho para el momento. Point. No tiene sentido para nosotros como AIH les aseguro es un esfuerzo participar en reuniones que son más o menos, exculpate, repeticiones, porque al finale no hay nada de concreto, sino posponemos la decisión posponemos, posponemos.

Establecemos la fecha creo que dentro de la primera mitad de septiembre . los continentes.Punto 

No tiene sentido posponer. November goes to ser COP27 will start preparing for the elections in Tunisia, Hamouda Ya tú sabes lo que está pasando in Tunisia probably no hay actividad política en este periodo, entonces arriesgamos de no poder de posponer otra vez. 

Hagámonos a la hora que estamos a tiempo, por favor, dentro de la primera quincena de septiembre, trabajamos, no hagamos dos etapas, nosotros no tenemos el aliento para tener dos etapas, una primera preparación Y la otra para escuchar la misma cosa. Al final mucha gente se está alejando. Les aseguro también de nuestra red se están alejando y sin bueno va la reunion después cuando hagamos la reunion sobre el foro, escucha otra cosa, no les interesa, no les interesa. Hay riesgo que no va a interesar nunca, exculpa si soy tan duro. Decidimos una fecha trabajamos ; Hay vacaciones Bueno yo me compromise personalmente para cerrar. Hagamos the Primera quincena .

xx

I believe that we will all have to be more humble and work. We've been talking too much for years. I'm synthetic and I can be tough. So it's not worth postponing again, it's worth working, we're taking advantage of this time very simply to say that it's perfect September: from today until such and such a day, we're going to work for anything that hasn't been done yet. Place. It makes no sense to us as IHA I assure you, it is an effort to attend meetings which are more or less, excuse me, rehearsals, because in the end there is nothing concrete, otherwise we postpone the decision, we postpone, we postpone.

We have set the date, I think, in the first half of September. If we all work, first of all, we are committed to working, we will manage to do everything necessary to have a very good meeting, with very good participation from all the continents.Point

There is no point in postponing. November is going to be the COP27, there will be the preparation of the elections in Tunisia, Hamouda You already know what is happening in Tunisia, there is probably no political activity in this period, so we risk not being able to report it.

Let's do it when we are on time please in the first half of September we are working, don't do two stages, we don't have the courage to have two stages, a first preparation and the other to listen to the same thing. In the end, many people walk away. I also assure you of our network they move away and without good the meeting passes later when we have the meeting on the forum, listen to something else, they are not interested, they are not interested. There's a risk you'll never care about, sorry if I'm being so harsh. We decide on a date on which we work; There are holidays, well, I personally undertake to close. Let's do the first fortnight

 

@Leo - Muy bien

@47 Kamal - First a question before reacting What is for Maher what is the ideal date to obtain support for this meeting . 

@Alaa I leave the floor to Maher who could explain more 

@48 Maher yes if it is an ideal date, that is to say to have the possibility of the presence of the unions and the artists to... Take advantage of more participants and keep commitments and the situation politics and the end of summer., being at most the second week of September could still be a date that can suit everyone.

@49 Kamal thank you Maher in these conditions it seems to me that we have two fundamental elements 

Whatever our good will, it is out of the question to hold this meeting without our Brazilian friends. That for me is fundamental.. it is a question of trying as much as possible to allow them to engage in the political obligations that they see necessary 

Two: our Tunisian friends believe that the first half of September is doable. So let's work a bit on this date, in my opinion not in two stages, but in a single stage , which would come out, not only with some political orientations, but also with organizational measures, renewal measures, measures of new methodologies of work. And it's about getting to work right away 

Because, in addition, all the other proposals put us in difficult situations It is true that the COP is being held in Sharm El Sheik in Egypt, and therefore we will still have a lot of work to do, we who are committed to this dynamic. We're going to have to work on that a lot. Two elections in Tunisia risk disrupting everything. The closer we get to the Tunisian elections, the more real difficulties we will have in organizing anything in Tunisia. Thanks

@50 Hamouda to finalize so it's the first week of September that's the decision so we won't go back. A committee will meet shortly. Pierre who is going to make a WhatsApp group so that we can decide on the group meeting methodology for the seminar to organize the seminar with the format of the seminar with the hybrid or not to hybridize all that so we are really going to focus on the seminar, the themes that will be at the seminar and all that. 

So I think that if we all agree with all the proposals that have been made, something about the international context should be sent to the methodology group, which should reflect on this question, to have a context by region, by theme, to see the possibility. 

That way we are already starting to send to people. This context will lead us to talk about the future of the WSF so how are we going to talk about this WSF that how people see it this WSF . I think it is the methodology group that will work on this document there. 

On the issue of the IC and the IC commissions and the IC structures, I think it's not the methodological committee that will work on the future of the WSF that will work on that , I think that's having a other group that will work on the structure of the IC and all that. Is it going to be integrated into the methodology group that will facilitate the seminar or is it separate? a decision would have to be made . We're not going to make the decision now. I think we can take her in the work group, because Tereza has just written that the interpreters are tired and we won't be able to continue without interpreting.

I think the most important thing is that we decided that it was the first fortnight of September, and in this first fortnight, the methodology group is going to propose a clear date, and to work on this methodology of this international seminar on the future of the WSF with the context and all that. 

@51 Kamal 2h01mn What organizations or networks or movements would be invited, not an open call . The open call will remain open, but those or those we would like to see participate in this seminar. This is to offer us a list so that we can know what to expect in terms of organization and also in terms of funding thank you

@52 Hamouda to answer your question Kamal in relation to the list I think it is in this working group that will take place where we will define the list of movements there is Tord that there are already some (see chat)

This working group For the international seminar on the future of the forum must give us a list of the organizations and movements that we can invite. Tord sent a list of movements Carminda that said also there are a lot of movements everybody must give some preposition for the next meeting to begin this work. I think this is the idea but not more on that. What is the date of the next meeting on July 9 July?

We can do the meeting not on Saturday we can do on the weekdays Wednesday or something like that, it depends because I think the interpreters are more willing for us on the weekend than in the week isn't it Rosie?

@53 Rosa 2h04mn Podemos armar el equipo el miércoles para el miércoles 6 de Julio Sí lo podemos armar a la misma hora que hoy. 

@53 Rosa 2h04mn We can set up the Wednesday team for Wednesday July 6 Yes, we can set it up at the same time as today.

@Maher later in the evening if it's a weekday 

@ Rosa misma hora para que puedan participar de otros continentes No hay nadie de Asia por el momento no esta (llegaron 3 personas algunos días despues) 

 

@Rosa at the same time so they can participate from other continents There is no one from Asia at the moment (3 people arrived a few days later)

 

@54 Hamouda hay una fiesta religiosa el 10 de julio no el 6

. OK everybody 6 of july? same time On the 6th of July we will discuss the methodology the invitation to the seminar just Just about the seminar 

Thanks Interpreters! without you you we are nothing

 

 

chat

By Francine - 04:33 PM

Hello everyone. I am at the airport, I will have to leave very soon...

By hamouda - 04:34 PM

ok francine have a good trip

From midestrum - 04:35 PM

Good meeting !

By Pierre - 04:38 PM

Alaa talks about a note on the Tunisian political context sent - has it been distributed?

By Damien - Vida Brasil - 04:39 PM

repeat the possible dates, Alaa

By Marcela Alternatives - 04:41 PM

Yes Peter. Hamouda sent him to the CI list

Will the seminar be in hybrid mode?

By Mirek - 04:43 PM

It is counterproductive to delay the seminar because of any national elections (but in Tunesia) because there are elections such every weekend, for example in Czechia on 24 September. Despite of it, we will come in September 8-)

By Mirek - 05:13 PM

Fully agree with Tord

By Leo - 05:13 PM

Me too

De Ole - Norwegian social forum - 05:14 PM

Thanks Tord for important points. Do you believe it is possible to have those movements attend a seminar already I'm early September?

By Rosy CEAAL - 05:19 PM

Seminario: Los temas a discutir :- las actual disputes - las demanded y propuestas de los mov - el mundo que queremos

Secretariado Colegiado del CI: - el secretariado que necesitamos

Comisión methodology Comisión logística Comisión presupuesto Convocatoria a Movimientos

By Marcela Alternatives - 05:19 PM

I have to leave but I agree with the following program : 1.Análisis de coyuntura (escenario mundial) 2.Futuro del FSM 3.Estructuras (secretariado colegiado, comisiones, foros regionales y temáticos, etc) 4.Próximos pasos ( y otros movimientos, funcionamiento, etc).

From Tord - 05:19 PM

One can always start by sending a Survey to what we see as Main movements . My impression is that all movements today are in search for finding me ways forward. The global starvation crisis, higher war tensions, tje attacks against the UN system in more or less all sectors etc makes a concerted effort showing a systematic interest on all muötiossue movements could be useful.

By Tord - 05:23 PM

Starvation crisis should be listed above. The extreme difference between how the present crisis is looked uppn on the South and the North is interesting as this difference is not as big between movements on South and North

By Carlos - 05:27 PM

Prezados. há mais de dez anos que se espera esse debate organized sobre o futuro do FSM. A decisão levantada no México de realizar o Seminário em Túnis decorreu da offer dos companheiros da Tunísia de financiar a participação do CI. É preciso esclarecer se esta oferta está mantida. Já há várias propostas sobre o futuro do FSM elaborated ao longo do tempo. Não devemos protelar mais. Os companheiros da Tunisia já afirmaram hoje aqui que o Seminário pode ser realizado no início de setembro. Proponho que apoiemos essa data e não adiemos o Seminário para prazos incertos. Há tempo para prepará-lo de forma eficaz. Definir o futuro do FSM é algo fundamental para todos nós e para ajudarmos a mudar o mundo. Obrigado.

Dear friends, we have been waiting for this organized debate on the future of the WSF for more than ten years. The decision raised in Mexico to hold the Seminar in Tunis resulted from the offer of the comrades from Tunisia to finance the participation of the IC. It is necessary to clarify if this offer is maintained. There are already several proposals on the future of the WSF elaborated over time. We should not delay any longer. The comrades from Tunisia have already said here today that the Seminar can be held at the beginning of September. I propose that we support this date and not postpone the Seminar to uncertain deadlines. There is time to prepare it effectively. Defining the future of the WSF is fundamental for all of us and to help change the world. Thank you.

.

By hamouda - 05:27 PM

Tiburcio: Dear all, hello. 1- Salute the importance of this meeting. 2, To agree that the priorities of this meeting are: the date of the seminar on the future of the WSF; funding tickets for IC organizations; preparation methodology to date. The important points to be discussed and defined in the seminar; the criteria for collective decisions in the WSF process: consensus understood as unanimity (as it was) or by a large majority, for example; the WSF also as a global political subject, etc. We have been waiting for this open, deep and democratic debate in the WSF process for more than ten years. Let this meeting deliberate on these preparatory points for the Seminar. Thanks.

By Rosy CEAAL - 05:28 PM

El Seminario debe ser deliberativo

From Tord - 05:32 PM

Long documents everyone have to agree to is an effective way to exclude global mass movements and youth interested effective cooperation.

De Ole - Norwegian social forum - 05:32 PM

very important point Tord

From Liege - Brasil - 05:33 PM

Não tem fala tempo control???

De Cesare - IAI - 05:42 PM

Fecha del seminario: de acuerdo para tener el tiempo necesario para prepararlo bien y con muy buena participación. Sin embargo, hay que tomar en cuenta que estaremos implicados como AIH y demás redes, sindicatos, ong (agua, energia, salud, vivienda, entre otros) en la Conferencian internacional “El Futuro es Publico” (Santiago de Chile, 29-30 /11 - 1-2/12/2022), donde estamos viendo también la posibilidad de convocar de forma hybrida la próxima sesión de la Asamblea Mundial de lxs Habitantes

By Tord - 05:51 PM

Movements to invite:

IAI inhabitants - Via Campesina - Climate Justice Coalition - Extinction Rebelion - Friends of the Earth International - Friends of Nature - IPB International Peace Bureau - WILPF - WRI - ITUC - TUED- WMW - Indigenous- Afrodescendants and United for intrcuötiral action

All regions and existing national social forums

And solidarity movements, Attac etc

By Ian - Attac France - 05:52 PM

de acuerdo con Jeanne, el que vamos a discussir es muy important

 

By Rosy CEAAL - 05:53 PM

feminist movement

By Ian - Attac France - 05:53 PM

we are here Tord, well at least Attac France :)

From Ole Norwegian social forum - 05:55 PM

progressive international

alter-summit

By Rosy CEAAL - 05:56 PM

Global Tapestry

Tenemos a team of voluntary interpreters.

By Ian - Attac France - 05:56 PM

muy buena intervention of Jeanne, which sums up well the situation and the problems to be tackled to organize this seminario

By Ian - Attac France - 06:04 PM

buena idea de organizar eso también en grupo

By Pierre - 06:10 PM

1/ WHO is preparing? it is the ad hoc committee listed in June 4th that prepares the seminar+IC meetings not the secretariat

Several meetings for date, call, preparation by written, meeting agenda - we can create a whatsapp group for this committee in 10 minutes

2/ GOAL expected A/ redefine an architecture of facilitation of different social forum processes (a wsf world common process which is a common- implement a permanent process and not only events) and others which are autonomous) -

B/ redefine the tasks and organization of IC (including secretariat but not only) in this redefined architecture

Take into account regional expectation by stimulating reflection on how the region perceives using the social forum format

3/ PREPARATION BY WRITTEN with lists of topics to be discussed - including conjuncture analyzes then along the way, definition of topics for verbal in the two meetings seminar + IC ( where deliberations will possibly take place by consensus on facilitation related issues)

In the committee we can be working on a LIST OF TOPICS for the written preparation

4/ DATE later in early November is better for a better preparation – IC has no other tasks scheduled in its working plan - - otherwise in September can take the “first step” approach

Hamouda - can we create today a WhatsApp group of the ad hoc committee

De Cesare - IAI - 06:16 PM

Fecha del seminario: de acuerdo para tener el tiempo necesario para prepararlo bien y con muy buena participación. Sin embargo, hay que tomar en cuenta que estaremos implicados como AIH y demás redes, sindicatos, ong (agua, energia, salud, vivienda, entre otros) en la Conferencian internacional “El Futuro es Publico” (Santiago de Chile, 29-30 /11 - 1-2/12/2022), donde estamos viendo también la posibilidad de convocar de forma hybrida la próxima sesión de la Asamblea Mundial de lxs Habitantes

De Ole - Norwegian social forum - 06:19 PM

is obvious that a seminar in September will not be able to mobilize any movements in a serious manner. It is also hard to see how it can be well prepared and called for in such short time. If it is held in early September, it will at best be a preparatory meeting for a substantial seminar on the future of the WSF at a later point. We have to realize the deep crisis the WSF is in. The future of the WSF is an important matter. It is hard to see why a decisive discussion on such a matter should be rushed through.

By Cesare Ottolini - IAI - 06:20 PM

How tenemos todxs una agenda muy cargada, estamos muy perplexos con la propuesta de hacer etapas, es decir no podremos participar en un seminario par etapas, septiembre, etc.

From Ole Norwegian social forum (mobile devi - 06:20 PM

It is obvious that a seminar in septiembre no podrá movilizar ningún movimiento de manera seria. También es difícil ver cómo se puede pararar y pedir en tan poco tiempo. If you get up at the beginning of September, in the best of cases there will be a preparatory meeting for a substantial seminar on the future of the FSM in a later moment. Tenemos que darnos cuenta de la profunda crisis en la que encuentra el FSM. El futuro del FSM is an important asunto. It is difficult to see a decisive discussion on this asunto debería ser apresurada .

De Cesare - IAI - 06:21 PM

end of septiembre es una fecha adecuada

By Rosy CEAAL - 06:23 PM

Debemos convocar a los diversos movimientos a reflexionar en torno al futuro del Foro y que expresen su posibilidad de participar de forma presencial.

De Cesare - IAI - 06:24 PM

Compas, se dan cuenta que una de las razones para que los movimientos sociales, organizaciones sindicales, ong, se estan alejando del FSM es el continuo posponer y retrazar, es decir la falta de decisiones operativas

By Rosy CEAAL - 06:28 PM

Debemos salir con la fecha del Seminario.

End of September

September 23, 24 and 25.

By Ian - Attac France - 06:28 PM

problema para los brasileños no?

De Cesare - IAI - 06:29 PM

de acuerdo, como etapa única!

From Liege - Brasil - 06:29 PM

]Final de setembro para os brasileiros é complicado

By Ian - Attac France - 06:29 PM

the elecciones its el 2 de octubre

De Cesare - IAI - 06:29 PM

the week before

By Rosy CEAAL - 06:30 PM

O el 16, 17 y 18 de septiembre.

By Carlos - 06:31 PM

Para o Brasil, temos que estar de volta ao país ate 30/09, no máximo. Muito difícil, mas o futuro do FSM também é muito important.

By Sheila - 06:31 PM

primeira fifteenna de setembro

By Carlos - 06:33 PM

For Brazil, we have to be back in the country by September 30 at the latest. Very difficult, but the future of the WSF is also very important.

Melhor para o Brasil, primeira fifteenna de setembro.

By Damien - Vida Brasil - 06:33 PM

Buscando compromisso: 16, 17 & 18/09?

By Carlos - 06:33 PM

Best for Brazil, first half of September.

By Mario FR-ESP - 06:34 PM

primera quincena

From Carminda - 06:34 PM

will we have enough time to look for funding by September?

From Jeanne- 06:34 PM

September 8-11?

By Mario FR-ESP - 06:34 PM

O el 16, 17 y 18 de septiembre. rosy's proposal

From Bartiria - 06:35 PM

Important stage única

By CEAAL Education Popular - 06:36 PM

Full Seminar

Etapa unica

Debe ser etapa única

From Liege Rocha - Brasil - 06:36 PM

Etapa única..

By Mario FR-ESP - 06:37 PM

It's too much money and logistics

By Ian - Attac France - 06:39 PM

dos fechas también que pensar, COP27 from 7-18 November, and elections in Tunis in December

Tiburcio, usted no puede actuar así era el turno de Sheila

By CEAAL Education Popular - 06:39 PM

September 2, 3 and 4.

From Tereza's - 06:39 PM

The interpreters are very tired. Please try to reach consensus ASAP.

By Ole Pedersen - Norwegian social forum (mobile devi - 06:39 PM

What about early October. Between first and second part of Brazilian elections? compromised.

From Bartiria - 06:39 PM

2,3,4 setembro melhor

By Ian - Attac France - 06:40 PM

y no es gritando que se hace hear, sobre todo cuando la idea es imponer su opiniones

By Carlos Tiburcio - 06:40 PM

Querido Ian, gracias pelo conselho. Mas protelar novamente não.

By Ian - Attac France - 06:40 PM

(fuera de todo la affection que te tengo Tiburcio, que es verdadera)

By CEAAL Education Popular - 06:40 PM

Debemos ir cerrando, lxs interpretes están cansadxs.

From me - 06:40 PM

Important to invest in a preparación de calidad para unico seminario - los meses de preparacion con discusión escrita seran activos

By Mirek - 06:40 PM

September 2-4

By Carlos - 06:40 PM

Dear Ian, thanks for the advice. But not procrastinate again.

By Ian - Attac France - 06:42 PM

very good question, thanks Kamal

muy buena pregunta, gracias Kamal

By CEAAL Education Popular - 06:43 PM

September 15 to 18?

From normal - 06:45 PM

No, better primera quincena dijeron varios. Al principio de mes o al final por sindicatos, pero no en el medio

By Ian - Attac France - 06:45 PM

between the 1st and the 2nd right?

By CEAAL Education Popular - 06:47 PM

2 to 4, or 8 to 11 of September?

By Ian - Attac France - 06:48 PM

del 8 al 11 parece me bien, pero como ya lo dije, que lo quieran o no; hay que saber que no tendermos el tiempo de movilizar como nos gustaría

By CEAAL Education Popular - 06:49 PM

Hagamos el esfuerzo de movilizar.

okay 9 of julio

By Ian - Attac France - 06:50 PM

si lo haremos, y de hecho ya lo estamos haciendo, pero las organizaciones europeas también tienen sus realidades sobre todo cuando no están acostumbrado al FSM

From Liege - Brasil - 06:50 PM

9 of julho não poderei

By Ian - Attac France - 06:51 PM

perfecto

no hay nadie from Asia hoy o si?

By CEAAL Education Popular - 06:51 PM

6 of July

By Ian - Attac France - 06:52 PM

hay que intendar movilizar para el 6 gente de Asia entonces

From Alaa - 06:52 PM

ok for 6

By Cesare I - 06:52 PM

by acuerdo el 6/07/2022