online 202208 extension en

online 202208 extension en

Alaa @1A - Analba@6 -Anna @14 - Athena - Batiria - Carminda - Cesare - Chico C43 - C46 - @28 - Damien C13 - @13 - Francine C36 - C46 - @5 - Gus - @22 - Hamouda @3A -@4A - @9 -@16 - @18 -@31@46 @49 -@53 -Ian C30 - C34 - C44 - @19 -@27-@38 - @42 - @44 - @51 -@56 - Kamal @1B - @25- @55 - Leo @4- @17-@48 - Liege C32 - @0 -@2 Marcela C14 - @2 @5B-@33 - @36 - @45 - Mauri C24 - Meena C8 - Mirek C30 - Norma - Oded- Ole @26-@34 - @43 - ouatara @52 - Paco C44 - @11 @15 - Pierre C7 - C11 - C15 - C19 - C27 - C38 - C41 -C50 - C53 - @10-@21 -@47 -@50- Rand - Rita C6 - C8 - C16 -C45 - C48 - C55 - @8 -@20 - Ronald C29 - Rosa C17- C46 - @3-@12 -@30- @32 - @37 -@39 -@41 -@54- Sheila C28 - C51- @23 - Tiburcio C10 - C35 - C42 - C49 -@24 - Tord C22 - C25 - C31 - C39 - C44 - C47 @7- @28- @40- Youssef

PART 1 POSTPONEMENT OF TUNIS MEETING

@0 Liege Deixei meu manifestação das mulheres con lula See the importance that I am giving to this meeting -

rosa let's start with with colleagues from tunis

Hamouda we are 17

12mn

@Rosa we can start with the report from fellow tunis

ALAA REPORT PROPOSITION

@1A Alaa I think we discussed it. We met on the side of the Maghreb-Mashreq Social Forum secretariat and sent them a letter today, requesting the postponement of the Tunis seminar meeting, which was scheduled for early September. I'm going to mention a few things. He then left the word to Kamal, so that he could add other elements. I'm going to start with practical elements, especially because today is August 13th and the seminar was scheduled for September 7th, so I think that at the end of July we already talked about a letter of invitation and starting to establish a good. defined list of those who will be present in Tunis, to also facilitate us, either the granting of a visa, or also to understand the logistics of this seminar.

Until today we are the 13th, we have not received anything from everyone so far, no official invitation has been sent. So we do not know today about the logistics, about the financial aspect, about the aspect if the invitation has circulated, has not circulated, but we have also asked for proposals for a list of participants, either from the IC, or outside the IC, to guarantee a minimum of success of this seminar.

As I also explained, today we do not have a clear vision on the number of participants, on the quality of the people who will be present. Honestly, we have many doubts about this seminar and the usefulness of this seminar under these conditions. And it is for these reasons that we may have asked for the postponement.

There are also other elements that we have begun to discuss from Mexico, on the question of the future of the IC and the future of the forum. I believe that with this limited number of those who have participated since the launch of this preparation process, few people have been involved, there are more people who have been with us in the debates. What has honestly blocked this process of consensus in quotation marks, that we need to have a minimum of consensus to be able to go to Tunisia with a clear methodology, with clear objectives,

And that is why, for all that, I think, that it is reasonable, also desirable, to postpone until the first week of November, and thus we will have more time to discuss, to talk, and more time to prepare for this seminar as well. Because the idea is not just to see each other, it is not just to add a new meeting of the IC, but also to start with good foundations, in a way of reflecting on the future of the IC, the future of the forum, and on the future also of possible convergences today, in a world characterized by the rise of the right, also characterized by stagnation and blockage around social movements, and also characterized by this fragility of democracies, especially in our region, but also of those democracies that It started from 2011 so I'll leave it there,

TOO MANY CONFLICTS

@1B Kamal I have nothing to add. Personally, what worries me is the state of readiness, so that we can relaunch the Social Forum, but what I see, much to my chagrin, is that there is too much conflict and sometimes too much personal settling of scores, instead of focusing in matters of manifestation of the practice within the Social Forum.

The ideal is that the postponement is accepted, that we can also change the method of discussion between us, so that we, minority who are within the IC, can go to Tunisia, with proposals that restore hope to the Social World. Forum, and to the institution that is the International Council. The rest in my opinion, we will eventually find, I think, I hope, a consensus that will allow us to relaunch and continue. Thanks.

19 minutes Thank you Kamal. the word is to you. A question? your questions? ----------

SUPPORT FOR POSTPONEMENT

@2 Liège I would like to talk, may I? Here's the thing: I think this postponement proposal is good for everyone, and I think I'd ask Rose. That Roze has circulated a Proposal in the group that she finds interesting. Because I agree with the postponement proposal and I agree with this idea of intensifying our discussions, which I think improves. Now, for example here I have been researching the tickets to go to Tunes for me it is unfeasible. It costs $11,000, got it? How do you say I would? bear the expenses?

After this proposal is withdrawn, which is better then is one thing. So we have to discuss how it's going to be, if there's going to be help, if not, I hope that the tickets below come quickly, that the basics because it's very expensive, it's more than $2000, you know? then for us it is unfeasible or we cannot afford a ticket. So I think I approve of this idea of postponement, and I would very much like us to have spaces for debate. So that we can build a powerful seminar and IC meeting at the beginning of November, and for us in Brazil it will be very good, because it will be after the elections, and I hope what will happen to Bolsonaro and Lula.

@3A Hamuda? Fora Bolsonaro Liège, but I just want to tell you that it is not the issue of ticket sales, which is... It is the issue of organization and mobilization and documents that makes the request to be made to be able to delay for later , to work on better and the proposal that Rosy made, is also an interesting proposal, so that we can continue with this work. There is also Marcela who had reacted to this, saying that too many committees mean that 'we don't know what the others are doing, even though, in any case, .

Leo? She read. I prefer to speak after Rosy.

MY REFLECTION ON THE FORUMS

@3 Rosa. I am going to speak slowly, because then I get emotional and I speak very fast. I made some reflection notes about the social forums I've been to, because I haven't been to everything. I remembered the virtual social forum and a bit the last social forum in Mexico, and it seems to me that the virtual social forum was a great success, because we organized ourselves, we divided, we decided to make central loaves, summon global movements with a particular schedule. My proposal regarding shifts has to do with what the colleagues say, we do not go to the face-to-face pre-seminar for another time, which may be the end of November or we define it here if it is viable or not, but that we do a series of organized virtual dialogues for us and us convening the various movements with your efforts.

I took up the proposal that was made to him in the methodology group, thinking of starting a session to get to know the global context of the world a little, to see what is happening in the different continents, then to make a series of dialogues with the movements, together with the movements I think That still needs to be decided.

If these issues are organized by the IC alone or organized together with other movements so that we can organize a greater presence, that explains an articulated work together with mobilization, articulation in short.

I am going to show the file very briefly, I don't want to extend myself too much, I sent this by mail to the IC, in the IC chat as well.

I hope you were able to see it. Here are the axes that we made in the virtual social forum peace and war, and it communicates, social justice that we finally separated from democracy, education, communication, culture, original peoples, feminisms, and diversities, which were part of one and then were divided, climate and your future forum, and we had central panels.

WHAT WE ARE MISSING IN MEXICO

In Mexico we lacked this, we did not define central panels, there were a series of, there were axes but no, we lacked, I think, organization, and agreement to say let's do this topic on such a day, and besides we had a few days, in three days of self-convergence no we can make panels with 10 axes, it's complicated.

And then for the shift seminar I propose virtual dialogues, I'm going to go quickly, and I thought that it is, the date can change, I put the first of September, but it could be September 8, to have a little more time, to be dialogues every 15 days.

Here is a very general outline so that every 15 days could be from 1 to 15, or from 8 to 20, we have to see what is the best way, and there is more or less a program until the end of November, where there could be a face-to-face meeting in tunisia, with the social movements of course, but it would be necessary to see if that is viable

And here I put the topics a little, we should have to talk about the Global context in the first dialogue, we had to prepare it, define who is going to do it, from Let's make an international situation.

ONE DAY PER AXIS

I don't know if you have been following the forums of the Global University Dialogue Sur Surj that Kinchi organizes together with Jade. Yes, they are very interesting, very complex. do together, that has to be defined and after the dialogue with the thematic forums of the forum

You have to see if it is the point OR they are specific issues from the axes.

Perhaps a day by axes, to see what is happening in the world.

I also thought that it is important to make an analysis of the actors and the correlation of forces that exist in a global vniel, starting from the questions that the methodology group asked themselves,

ABOUT THE AGENDA

And regarding the agenda, I think it is important to build this agenda that has been part of a debate that we have had for a long time, about how to build a global agenda to build another possible world,

And in the end, after this debate on the context, discuss what forum we need and its future, what its structure has to do with the secretariat, coordination, in short, everything we know about consensus, to finally see if it can be done, at the end November, a meeting with movements with CIr with global movements with international facilitators with social forums, which can also be hybrid, face-to-face or virtual, or it can be totally virtual, because that facilitates many things; interpretation; you have to manage it But it may be possible.

I'm going to stop sharing, Well that's a general point, then I put here a very general outline, as a kind of methodological route for each moment, that each one of the groups would have to develop: the theme that the methodology adopts What is the group work area or what, what inputs are needed, and who is responsible

that would have to be done for each of the dialogues, depending on who constitutes them.

Well, this is the proposal that I sent here, a little while thinking about giving you everything that is happening with our organization of the seminar in Tunisia.

So I think Leo is still right

28mn

Is it okay to postpone?

@4A Hamouda Thank you Rosy Before giving the floor to Léo, Alaa should have spoken first. We all agree to postpone to the month of November, if we all agree that is already a point we have won, and from there we can start like what Rosie just did, to present solutions for discussion, if you have the opportunity to discuss all this, okay? Thanks.

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MAYBE NOT POSTPONE

@4 leo Good evening from Austria. I wanted to point out some things that came to my mind when reading Aláa's letter. I think that the preparation is somewhat insufficient. However, I doubt that reporting it will improve things much, it is not about, and that is a bit of my criticism of Rosay's proposal, it is not about making another forum, touch all the themes, and this neither virtual, nor face-to-face, if there is no central theme

I really liked the expression that the comrade after whom he spoke, of the relaunch he said of the world social forum.

This is what it really should be. There are certain conditions, without which it is difficult to speak, neither in September, nor in November, etc., that we agree on the relaunch, not only the future, but a new push, a new structure.

There is one thing that I think is more or less clear and for all that I have heard, that we have to have the will to reach decisions, that is, that deliberative part of the forum, that I believe there is a broad consensus.

Where there is no consensus is on the issue of consensus, there is no consensus on consensus, and I believe that in order to reach this objective of making decisions, I believe that positions such as unanimity cannot be maintained, because that is enough 1,2,3 people would be against some, and it is blocked, we are in the same, so this would also have to be a condition that can facilitate.

Technical things are also important. various proposals for invitations had been made; of calls; but in the end it was not known who is going to distribute this, at least in the international council, but also in other organizations

This division of work between us is necessary, but the material itself is already there, and I think that today we could decide on the call,

And as for the list, I personally never knew where to send the list of the people that we are supposed to be in the mobilization committee, so it's this, or it's someone else or him directly, with Hamuda with the secretariat etc, things that they are not so difficult, they are not multiple enough to decide, rather a question of will, and if there is a will that could be expressed today, the date, I think that for the beginning of September it is very fair, but about two two three weeks later, it would be possible

But I insist what I said at the beginning that it would be necessary to agree on these basic points so that the objective of relaunching the world social forum has a concrete character. Thank you.

TWO POINTS CHANGE OF RULES AND SUBSTANTIAL DIALOGUE

34mn

@5 Francine good One this I totally agree with what Alaa wrote, and I totally agree with Rosy's proposal. .

Two I would like to answer Kamal very briefly because it is not about conflicts that we have and personal oppositions is not this. There is only one very real conflict, it is what Leo mentioned, you can be aware and for having it in another way, but we have a conflict, which we have to resolve, in one other way,

And so far since the beginning of this Tunisian preparation process, there have already been three proposals to resolve the conflict. All three proposals have been rejected.

Ok, now this would not be important, it would not be problematic, if the world social forum was in a good state of health, but it is not, and we know it, we are in crisis, and several of us think that the forum is dying.

Now if we want, and I want, I want, to relaunch this forum, I think we cannot continue with the same rules, because these rules have been the rules that have led us to this crisis.

So we need some change, the problem is to find the good formula for the changes we need, because saying "there is no problem, we must not talk about everything that divides us" does not help us, it does not help us, because then we are going to continue in the path that leads to death.

So in one way, another way we have to try to find a solution. It is not that there are no personal oppositions, but it is not important, there is a very real conflict that we have to resolve, otherwise another date will help us.

And I also think, the second condition for us to relaunch the Forum is exactly Rosi's proposal, with a substantial dialogue debate. But these are the two conditions: try to find a solution to the conflict, and two this substantial dialogue thanks

38m

BUILD TRUST IN A GROUP THAT ORGANIZES

5B@ Marcela good morning to all and everything I am going to refer to the message of Alaa and kamal I already answered But I wanted to explain myself more here. I very much agree with the analysis or The portrait of the situation that Kamal and Alaa presented, but the truth is that nothing surprised me, I saw it coming, because I knew that it was impossible to organize a meeting between In which in a month, With everything that implies organizing a meeting, of us, of international level movements, then I absolutely agree that the date should be changed as it is impossible to hold the seminar.

Second how I said it, I think we have to have a good will, and think differently about holding this meeting so that it can really be relaunched, we all created a committee to organize tunisia, more than 30 people without a real concrete link, of course with the companions of the Maghreb.

They central point but we need to define within that the responsibilities we created a consensus committee, a methodology committee, a program committee, a committee I don't remember

We all try to participate, and in the end we are all left unable to contribute concretely to the organization, because there is a political issue: the whole crisis that the IC is going through, but if we really want to organize this meeting, there are issues, as Leo de technical logistical nature, and for this reason there has to be a smaller group, which could be some IC organizations or the secretariat itself, which is in charge of organizing the event in coordination with the Maghreb comrades.

That means effective tasks invitation, call, contact with people that varies, the list of participants, the issue of visas, logistics, and we were not able to do that. we failed, because nobody had this responsibility in a clear way.

So if we really want to have this meeting in tunisia in november, or whenever, please, from now on we have to come to an agreement, and it's not about what all this is, we have to trust each other, appoint the secretariat or some person organization that volunteers in close coordination with the comrades of maghreb mashrek to organize logistically, we will undoubtedly have meetings of the IC in the meantime, we will come with proposals, discussions will propose agree, not agree, but give confidence to a group what can organize, but this meeting is unfeasible, I think from an organizational point of view.

I still think that an organization agrees with Rosy's proposal, but I still think that a face-to-face meeting, in person of the IC, of the members of the IC together with other movements is fundamental

It will help much more to have a discussion in person, to be able to move forward, let's say, and look for solutions. As Francine said, I think we all want, and we are for a long life for the world social forum.

So, we have to have a political will, and leave a certain role, and do it with greater humility, and come to an agreement, and trust, trust some organization, or the secretariat, it doesn't matter, that they can organize this so that it can be actually do something. Thank you.

------

43 minutes 6@Analba Good afternoon everyone, I want to start by saying that we spent this week thinking a lot about the organization of the seminar, with all the discussions that we had in consensus, the discrepancy is that it would be very difficult for us to have this meeting in person, now at the beginning of September, with everything that has already been placed here I approve, I think that the proposal that Rose brings is very interesting because it deals with a process of debate, we would have September and October, to organize ourselves, to have more time to organize ourselves.

It is also important that we have a meeting system, because we ask now that we have 2 and a half months of agenda to organize ourselves, as the company said, by the end of October we can also be in this same situation. , then it is very important that we organize ourselves, but with a larger system, such as a division of responsibility in this process, and really see the dates.

I think that the proposal that Rita put there in the chat also gives that organizational vision, I also agree with what it brings. So that's what she wanted to post. One of the ends was actually a relaunch of the World Social Forum. I really like what ceAal has called the "future of humanity" that's what I wanted to put --------

46mn

REGIONAL ASPECT AND NOT MAKING THE FORUM A THING OF DECISION

REGIONAL ASPECT AND NOT MAKE THE FORUM A DECISION THING

7@Tord Thanks for all the work, and today of course especially to the interpreters, who courageously come every time to this small gang, but also the other work. I think there are some progress in the preparation, but it's not recognised, and progress that is not recognised is maybe not really progress.

But anyway itis clearly so that it showed the necessity of addressing the whole range of issue of Importance for movement for the world social forum process, and also that we now clearly talk about a an assembly of assemblies, we talk about structuring the ending, in a way that would be possible, for a bigger global movement, to be interested.

For the Environmental movement we have a specific situation that we are very used to : lots of very specific local issues, and linking them to Global ones, but that means that we cannot be at meetings where you have 800 local things, unsorted, it becomes lack of efficiency, there has to be some structure, in such a way that one can move forward, and I think the preparatory papers are a step forward in that direction;

There is one big lack that was discussed before Mexico, I thought it was agreed upon, and then he disappeared , of course we know everybody is overWorked, and it's the regional aspect.

The regional aspect is utterly important for the survival of the Forum, in totally different way then illusions about establishing social forums everywhere. This social forum idea of expanding social forums everywhere, is an illusion which has destroyed very much serious discussion about the word social forum.

The reality is that of course they were in Italy they were 100 local social forums 16 years ago today there is nothing.

Of course we see progress mesopotamia iraq and even Russia had a social forum in May fantastic But the world social forum has to be a process for everywhere, including the most part of the world where there is no social form , and that's why the regional aspect is so important, and that's why I will come very much Rosy’s suggestion here for the process.

Starting with a regional understanding , we have to have report from all continents

Of course in the future it would be useful to bring it a little bit further down, for instance central and Eastern Europe, or Southeast Asia etc, not to every country level, but I think this is exactly, and we see, as far as I've been reading reports from Mexico, the world social forum, there was no one from Oceania, so here we see the need if we want to say world social forum, for exactly what Rosie has proposed.

That they are being given equal importance as the other continents, in the same way we have to move forward, giving also regions , where there is no social forum, equals say

This exactly why friends of the Earth have survived this very dominant rich Friends of the earth groups in the north , but at the meetings, the decisive meetings, every nation have only one friend of the earth group and they have equal say, if they are 50 members of 40000 so this regional understanding and representativity it is what is needed if the world social forum is to survive.

That does not necessarily mean that it's a question of decisions made in wsf but it means that it should be exactly like Rosie has made now ; a structure where each voice as some kind of equal possibility.

I think this is a key to the big movements, because they all, they don't exist in every country/ So they would like I think the world social from process where they can reach out to regions and countries and where they're weak or don't exist

so this is why I think that this regional aspect is very good.

And for the rest of it, we see that this conflict goes on. I made my point clear enough many times, that I think it's possible to both bring the political momentum that the renovator group was so well done at the world social forum last year ,where the facilitating groups were finally able to select program and politicize the whole process, which was very good,

But I disagree on the point of making a decision thing ,and I leave up to others to discuss the main thing that all very good thing in this process, and Rosys suggestion for a structured thing during the autumn could be useful, because as it look like, the paper is not bad, but the reality is that the discussion has been very intense, and very internally focussed.

So Rosy proposal is that we begin with discussing the state of the world and develop a little bit further, and then probably, we can come to constructive Solutions.thank you very much

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53mn

53 minutes ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF CONSENSUS

@8 Rita Well, first of all, I would like to thank you for the effort that Tunisia is making to receive the IC, and I think it is also important to relieve some pressure. , passages of resources, I think we should continue with the perspective of this meeting, and more about what it will be, when it is really possible, because otherwise we run the risk of being in this situation today; The IC does not know if it will have resources for the seminar, and the seminar and does not know if the IC will have to go to Tunis, if there will be a process to take advantage of this opportunity.

So I really like Rose's proposal, but I want to remind you of something that Tord said now, that many or at least some things were discussed and even advanced, before the forum in Mexico, and they did not advance, because we still do not have the mechanisms to do everything. what Rose intends to turn into a concrete work of the International Council.

So I think we can't make the mistake, fall into the trap of demanding a bigger debate, in terms that are very similar to what happened in 2020, which was a rich debate, but it works to postpone some things that we are facing. . now. .

We are facing the issue of Consensus now, we are facing the issue of IC decisions now, we are facing the issue of a collegiate secretary now, then if this seminar serves to postpone a debate that is so difficult and that is finally being faced. I tend to regret that we have allowed this to happen, this responsibility, which belongs to the international council, is practically delegated to a debate that has to discuss the world, that has to discuss politics, knowing how the forum and the council work, and whatever the consensus mechanism is, the decision forwarding mechanism is already defined.

So I strongly advocate that this debate not be interrupted, otherwise we will have an important round of debates, with no consequences at the end. Regarding the tours, I think we should wait when Tunes has the conditions, it may not be for this debate but it may be to define a next forum, to define the expansion of the council, to define, to work on the new bases.

So we continue in this perspective, but we can think of this Rose seminar, from start to finish, as a virtual event, if we have Tunes ready to receive everyone, then we take the last step. But that is what Rose wanted to propose to get some things out of this debate, like the secretariat, for example, from November. I believe that we are postponing, postponing, postponing is proving to be a problem for the IC: the difficulty of facing the problems that it creates for itself. Thanks.

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58mn

WE ARE NOT PREPARED THE IC HAS NEVER BEEN IN ALL REST WORKING GROUP SECRETARIAT

@9 Hamouda an encore just to do an encore. we said we had to decide the dates. It is not that Tunisia is not in a position to receive us, it is that we are not prepared and that we have not given anything for two weeks, to have the visas and how many people are going to come, to see the budgets and all that, because we remain with our hands crossed in the region, we work to collect money and all that, but it is the content, the people who are going to participate, the process.

What Rosie just brought, she brought a methodology, she sent before we sent the text, so she was also thinking, so there are people who are thinking, that we had to put that back, because there are blocks everywhere, and we have to remember something the International Council has never been easy: "I don't love you either", from the beginning we all know, this international council has never been easy, from 2001 until now, so we have to accept that we are divergent, we are different, but we've still been working together for 20 years, and each one has a way of seeing things.

So that's why if we make the decision to put the seminar in November, we stop and say that's fine, we'll do it in November, and then we talk about the methodology, how to make this seminar a success. That's what's important.

The other point that Rita just said about the secretariat, why do you bring it: the secretariat to a working group, then Marcelà is going to speak, he is going to present what the working group has done. We are having difficulties to put a secretariat, because there are countries or regions that have not yet proposed the secretariat.

We started with a working group without a secretariat and to move forward and start taking care of this work, but the problem is that not all of us agree, how is this secretariat going to be there, how many people will be here, if we find that there are ips and ciranda,

I completely agree that they should be in this secretariat, but we have to open up to everyone, so we have to open up to the Africans, to the Europeans, on the communication side, and get everyone there.

So there's a bit of vagueness in all of that, that's why we said in the working group that we were going to work on a document to discuss in the IC how this secretariat will be established there, because we need skills, we need people who speak languages, we need a lot of things to make the secretariat work better. So that's the discussion, this stop.

1h01mn

PROPOSAL FOR THE RESTART OF THE IC ARTICULATION GROUP BEFORE TUNISIA

@10 Pierre Hello I'm going to speak in Spanish

According to Marcela: we are all wanting the WSF process to have a long life, it has been interesting what has happened is in the last month, since the middle of July.

i agree to postpone the meeting in tunisia ,

But I also agree to continue working in four or five groups, I would say, the three that we have: one on consensus, which also deals with the vision of how to come out of the confrontation between various visions in deeds, one on the methodology of seminar in Tunisia, and I would say one that animates the stages of discussion of topics that Rossi proposes that must be evaluated.

One about logistics, because I think I remember, when a logistics project was proposed, Hamuda said logistics is in Tunisia, but it is seen that this logistics must also be internationalized.

And I would also say that we should have an IC animation group, to intersperse IC meetings, and I think that this group should be as we have done in 2020, a voluntary group. How was the articulation group made, which worked well and he went to sleep when the virtual forum started, and he never woke up, because maybe there are people who didn't want to wake him up.

It seems to me that the figure of this IC articulation group is valuable to be able to precisely pace the works, and that we do not have no head. we need this group

The specific proposal that I do again is to have an IC articulation group, to schedule the IC meetings, which are going to be interspersed with those discussion meetings that Rosa proposes What is a kind of slow, interesting online process for external discussions , what is not a forum what is a kind of slow international seminar, and the 4 groups that you just mentioned: consensus visions of IC, Tunisian methodology

mobilization tunisia, and logistics tunisia.

So I propose to reopen the articulation group that we opened in April 2020

I'm going to turn off the video and just talk. Okay.

So I made the effort to document the forty texts that were published in the various channels: list of the IC FSM chat whatsapp and Telegram and the three chats of the Telegram working groups, which also had to create logistics, and the IC animation group

To finish on the conflict that Francine mentions, try to describe four options for the IC.

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.7y

to which the different inputs that have been made can be referenced, and they are with labels, and I tried to propose a documentation, it is not the only possible one but it is here and it is the day there are some labels that say option one for the Cí, there are a series of text, in option 2 another series, and it is interesting, we have seen the confrontation, through the cases of solidarity with Aziz and with walden, we have seen, I do not want to comment with an adjective, but it has allowed us to see the confrontation , showing that in reality for me option 1 is viable to have the IC as a space that does not make declarations, and we have also seen that there is an interesting beginning of discussion about option 4 What is to add..

Hamouda c'est pas held him

Pierre Then just the proposal to create the IC articulation group for cadence in a collective way, with volunteer people as we worked in 2020, which went well for us.

This experience has been good, that someone comes who did not work, so I propose to create this to pace the work of four groups, which are three plus the logistics that have to be formulated, and the slow seminar that Rosa proposes, which seems to me to be a very good idea , and keep the preparation, and the discussion, because the discussion advances, then the discussion towards a face-to-face meeting, when possible. My very specific proposal is to reactivate the IC articulation group. Thank you.

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ANA AND VIOLETA ON EXTERNAL FACILITATOR DISCUSSION CONSENSUS

@11 Paco Hi everybody just to say that on what i asked to you if it was possible to involve some facilitators outside the IC we have two ladies here just arrived, that is Anna and Violetta so i will thank them to be here. Yesterday we got just a quick meeting me Rosie Sheila and Hamouda , I moved out with them.

We have Violetta and ana that kindly read some document that pierre and francine wrote about the consensus, and they arrived now,

What we agree yesterday that they are listening a little bit what we are saying, and then we can leave just some minute to them to express their opinions, because of course, the discussion is very complicated, and is not possible also for them to understand all these past of 20 years among Us, but we will see if it should be an help from outside; maybe not from them; but from some other facilitators around the world.

And it is the same things that I said to you in the last meeting, when we are all together, that's all what I wanted to say.

And also one thing take in account that November 10 to 13 will be the meeting in Florence for the 20 years of the Florence social forum European social forum, just to inform you. thank you.

PROPOSAL FOR A DAY OF DIALOGUE ON CONSENSUS WITH EXTERNAL FACILITATION

@12 rosa, I would like to bring several things - I don't know if Damien, I think There is agreement to postpone the seminar when there are conditions, there is agreement on the proposed methodology of virtual dialogues, the topics need to be defined, the dates clearly, we can do this in some of the the commissions, and going back to what Paco said, yesterday we met with Ana and Violeta, with another fellow Betina, to talk about, why I'm skipping, in the consensus group, there was no consensus, there was a very strong debate , and something we said is "we need someone to come from outside we can't move forward, follow us and us" So we asked Paco to talk to the compañeras, and yesterday we met with them, and Hamouda, Sheila, Paco were in this dialogue and I, and they with our own reflections, said "This is very complicated,because there are not only two positions, if we are 60 in the IC there are 60 positions”,

So the proposal that was raised, they can share it, is that we have a debate one day, a day of reflection on consensus, and the different ways of making decisions by consensus, I think we are lacking this, as an international council group, And well, I would give them the floor in a moment, so that they can briefly share this reflection with us, and about what Pierre says, It's that everything goes together, I think we have to move forward as the Zapatistas say, walking and learning along the way , came the solution then another.

On the one hand, there is the consensus commission that at the end of the day we said that we all participate in all of them, because there was a conflict thing there; but it is true that trust is lacking.

There is the consensus committee, the methodology committee, which has made progress, the mobilization committee, which has also made progress, and it is going to present its proposal, I think the logistics organization should agree with Tunisia, and I would not think there would be a group How it was created a long time ago, I was in the articulation group, I think that the task there is of the secretariat.

DISAGREEMENT WITH PIERRE'S PROPOSAL OF THE ARTICULATION GROUP -- ABOUT THE SECRETARIAT GROUP

I do not agree with what Pierre proposes to form a group that fulfills the logistics (?) No, I think it is the secretariat that has to take care of this part and make sure that things work.

And the other is to say Yes, there are countries, as Hamuda proposes, that have not raised their delegates, it shouldn't be a problem, I think those of us who are named should make it work as soon as the names of other countries that are missing, when they are named, it is integrated, and not the other way around, we are not going to wait for what happens but to conform, otherwise we will never finish, so, we are doing it along the way, we are learning. Nobody is perfect, so we can build it together and build trust.

DAY OF DIALOGUE CONSENSUS AUGUST 27?

But it is essential that we have a dialogue on consensus, prior to starting these virtual dialogues, and for this my proposal, our proposal is that it be on August 27, to have a day of work.

Well then, it will be my Hamouda proposal, so I don't know if Anna and Violetta who are here are going to talk, yes Ana, Violeta OK

Liege , Rosi which would be August 27 : dialogue on consensus

We have to close that point, right? before the word to them, if Damián wants to share

1h15mn

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SUMMARY DAMIEN GUEST LIST DO NOT POST IMPORTANT DISCUSSIONS

@13 Damian I'm having trouble connecting, but I can quickly go back to the notes, summarize what was said and restate what Rozy said, there is some consensus to postpone the seminar in Tunis to November; There is consensus on the need to make real efforts to organize this meeting, including on issues related to the need to finalize a list of invited people and organizations and a methodology for the seminar. also reaffirm the points of divergence that are the interpretation of the Consensus, the decision-making of the International Council and the collegiate secretariat.

At the same time, what seems to me to be a consensus is the need to be careful not to postpone important debates in order to avoid conflicts, however, it is necessary to value the divergences and continue advancing in these debates. this makes Tunis just a stage in all these debates and not necessarily the conclusion of all these debates.

And there are several proposals that we have to decide on, so in the proposal for a set of debates until the Tunis event, with virtual dialogues Every 15 days, until November. a proposal to have a full day dealing with Consensus, which is the August 27 process, which Rose just talked about.

A proposal also for this Tunisian organization to recreate the four groups a consensus, one of the methodology of the Tunis seminar, one of the logistics of the seminar, one of mobilization for Tunisia; but it is not a consensus that the other proposal would be to work with whoever is in the secretariat, as I understand it. That is basically what I took as notes in this debate. I have a bad connection. I am trying to communicate through chat.

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POSSIBLE EXTERNAL FACILITATOR

@ 14 Anna I can speak Italian, right? the stimulus could be to discuss how the consensus method also applies in other contexts, for example, it is not generally equated with unanimity. Many groups have abandoned the veto option because it often makes participatory processes too frustrating. but I don't know if this can be interesting, you have a lot of experience, but it might be interesting to cover how the consent method is applied in other places. I don't know, this could have been an encouragement. Now, August 27 is actually a problem beyond us, it could be some reality that they could deal with.

Rosa: the 27th would be feasible for you

Ana ; I can't, but maybe you can find someone else

Rosa but can we also define another day?

Ana For me it's a little problematic on August 27 I couldn't, but maybe you can meet someone else Yes or it might not be an opportunity to deal with other modalities, even compared to what you have experienced.

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@15 Paco I think that apart us who are involved in this process ; it is quite difficult for others to be so dedicated, and be available always rosy.

so no that was just a start an attempt to see if we can do something together with them because I know them, but all of us we know facilitators, because it's supposed that also us we are facilitators, so we will see if maybe should be other date, other day with them, they have to see the agenda because they have also the job to follow, and teach like many of us, and so we can see, that just to say I think, that of course is very complicated to approach this argument, with you, but I appreciate that they are available just to start, and then would feel the with them, and have the date, and we discuss.

Ana we can see if there is another date where you can be available and then we will give a feedback to the international council, to say when there is possibility for your participation. is correct for everybody this way to work?

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1h24mn

@16 Hamouda so if we continue our discussion there is the consensus working group that will produce a report, Francine's proposal, we know that we will not all agree, we will never agree, so you have to come up with things, to get out of this process the Our Italian friends who are there are watching a little discussion if they can offer us something to work on This is 1.

2 is the discussion of the working groups. as I've said before; after the methodology program all that; but also the issue of mobilization, what has been done, what has not been done and also the report on the secretariat that we will also discuss. So if I give, who is going to talk about consensus? It's open; I think the group; there are a lot of people, I didn't see anyone raising their hand, but that's the discussion.

NEW DATES FOR TUNISIA?

@17 Leo I think that we have talked so much about postponing, we must at least have, if not yet, the exact date, but an orientation, whether at the beginning of November or at the end of November, because if we also talk about mobilization, which has been forgotten by several who have mentioned the groups, It is extremely necessary, above all it is going to do what Tord has said about the importance of regionalization, if we talk about lists, who to send the lists to, a series of very specific things that are still missing get out of this meeting, otherwise everything remains up in the air.

@18 Hamouda The date as the Alaa is at the end of November, because there is the European Forum, as Paco and Ian said, it will start on November 13, so if there is something it will be at the end of November, and it is convenient for the committee secretariat that it be on those dates so that we have time to prepare the seminar, and as I said the logistics and everything that will come, in the sense that you already have to offer people a list of people and all that, and see the visas, and all the paperwork that will come with it.

so please, if we continue, who will report on the consensus, who could inform us on the consensus, who was in this group or the proposal; 1h27mn

INPUTS FROM THE CONSENSUS GROUP MEETING WITH EXTERNAL FACILITATION

@19 Ian I think that was nicely summed up a little earlier, to go back to what was said in this group, we actually have a good discussion, I think we have a good discussion; In the last consensus meeting, we saw the two protagonists, the two main camps parting ways, they made their arguments, we debated, we absolutely can't find a consensus, we deeply disagree, there were proposals that were made on both sides, and the two didn't they managed to reach a consensus and then suddenly, I think the proposal could be summarized, I don't know if it will help much, because they are debates that we have had many times, and that we are going to continue having,

I think that the proposal that Paco made is very good, that is, that we send documents with our arguments, maybe we will have a meeting on consensus, because that is what we managed to agree on, about the fact that we need a third party that comes from outside, to reach an agreement, to find something together, we all agree on that,

I think we could rather tell ourselves this in fact: another consensus meeting that has been proposed with the mediators, and then we try to see what can come out of it, and what report can be made on it, and I think until then for now disagreements are too important, even if I find that we have a very interesting discussion here.

1h30

PROPOSAL TO RAISE CIRANDA TO CONSENSUS

@20 Rita So I wanted to say that Ciranda made a survey of all the proposals that have been made so far on the Consensus, redistributed these proposals http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8d because whoever believes that you have a proposal that is not on the list, please add, the one who is going to help us from the outside, the same inside the group, we will all have to position ourselves in what we think in the construction of the Consensus

And this means that the alternatives go from the international council never speaking except unanimously, and the other issue on which the council never makes decisions, or in a gradation: the council tries until the Consensus is exhausted, and if it does not succeed make it public, that is, the process is shared with the forum, another situation is the qualified majority for Consensus

And one last proposal, which Francine made, is that there be a second instance in the international council, in the World Social Forum, which has the possibility of making decisions on its behalf, it would be an assembly, it would be a permanent process, and with that the international council is not going to commit to making decisions and neither is the forum,

What would be needed would be to discuss what this assembly would be and what degree of coordination it would have with the IC, then we have these proposals on the table, and each organization will have to position itself among one of them, to help the process, or if there is another situation , inside the forum, because the assemblies outside the forum, a Chico proposal was made that actually introduces this possibility of an Assembly, but he was talking about an assembly outside the forum, and then it is not up to the IC to discuss something that is not It has to do with the forum. http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.7f

So this proposal are proposals that are within the World Social Forum, there are the possibilities. If there are any that are not, and that can be said clearly, then I ask that people contribute; and they send these proposals, it is not to justify it is a line of what that path would be. Thank you very much. 1h33m

RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN DISCUSSION ON ASSEMBLY AND DISCUSSION ON CONSENSUS

@21 Pierre Continuing on what Rita says, it seems to me that this discussion is awakening about what he called option 4, that is, there is the IC that remains as a facilitator, without taking positions, and there is "something", which is a permanent assembly, which we are beginning to discuss in a more focused way, on how it is indeed a world social assembly of the WSF or a world social assembly in the WSF.

So what is the degree of self-organization, and institutionalization or whatever, but it seems to me an interesting discussion, that it is on its way, that it is starting

And the important thing about this discussion is that it allows us to get out of the conflict over the IC itself, that is to say that what Francine proposes is already an interesting step of changing the focus, and

That is why I say that perhaps, if this discussion progresses, perhaps the decision questions, if the IC remains as a facilitator, there is a consensus to say that the way of creating consensus that we have had, on the facilitation decisions, worked, and that we have the experience, and that there is no fundamental problem.

So, I would say that there is a possibility that, on the horizon, there will be a discussion of agreements that seem to me to come out of the dilemma that Rita mentioned, perhaps we have discussed a lot. I think that it is progressing, and perhaps part of the alternatives that Rita mentioned, they will make it half obsolete, if this discussion advances.

So I think it's a new element that appeared in the last few days, I think this Progress should be welcomed.

Why is it true that on August 2 we are showing there was no way, that there is a confrontation between options, there is no way out, we have seen the possible way out in the questions of solidarity with Walden and Aziz, it is the historical consensus, why everything here the world accepts, but I think positively there are new elements

we have to take care of this discussion, deepen it, listen to each other understand each other, and I think we are heading in this direction. is good news.

1h36mn

TWO OPTIONS PERMANENT ASSEMBLY OUTSIDE THE FORUM OR WITHIN THE FORUM

@22 Francine Very briefly. It may be that there is a question about what Pierre calls option 4

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.7y

because my proposal

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8g

was inspired by a Chico proposal

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.7f

and then Pierre reformulated it in a response to my proposal

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8i

There are two possibilities

In other words, the assembly puts us out, as Rita said, it puts us out of the forum, which doesn't seem like a good solution to me.

Or we stay within the forum, it is what we prefer, of course

And then it is the assembly of the world social forum, and this is the question. Now, we can agree on this.

In other words, a world social forum with a double structure: on the one hand, on the one hand, an international council, which can do the work that it has always done, and that it wants to do, that is, the facilitation of the world social forum, and on the other hand, by side of the international Council, a permanent assembly, what can we do what we would like to do is to say articulation, Actions, declarations, reach an agreement, because for this we also have to agree on the rules of decision.

But this double structure would be good, which allows us, on the one hand, not to have to change the letter of principles. We don't need any change. and on the other hand to say clearly that neither the international council nor the Assembly can speak on behalf of the world social forum. It's not going to be possible. But each one, council and assembly, have a certain degree of autonomy, and I very much hope that we have to discuss it. Of course it is not a final proposal, but I very much hope that in this way we can resolve our conflict. Thanks.

1h39mn

A PERMANENT ASSEMBLY PARALLEL TO THE INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL

@23 Sheila I just wanted to reinforce Francine's proposal, which I think complies, resolves conflicts, so we have defended ourselves, a group has defended, that the council speaks, manifests itself on behalf of the International Council, and this has not been accepted.

The proposal that Francine brings, we will have a permanent Assembly, the same, in a parallel structure to the international council, within the forum, we will have the international council that continues without manifesting itself, that continues doing what it is doing, and we have another structure in the same level of power, let's say it is the international Assembly of the WSF, which will manifest itself in the name of the Assembly, and the organizations that are there will decide how to reach these decisions.

I think it calms; because the international council remains, with autonomy and without this conflict; and the organizations that participate can choose to be in either of the two places, or only in one of them, and this Assembly can even decide to be open, not only for members of the International Council, it has autonomy to decide that,

I think that Francine's solution solves many of the problems, and that we have to embrace it, understanding that it is not an assembly outside the forum, it is within the structure, at the same level as the International Council, instead of having the forum and the international council will have the forum and this permanent assembly. I think it's a very interesting solution friends, thanks.

1h42m

@24 Tiburcio Good morning comrades. I am pleased with Sheila's intervention, I agree with Sheila's intervention, I think that Francine's proposal seeks to advance the internal debate on the future of the forum, it presents a viable solution, as Sheila explained, it has support, I think we have two great advances: it is the report on consensus, which allows, if unanimous consensus is not found, to be able to decide by qualified majority, and secondly, this proposal that we have a permanent international assembly, within the framework of the Social Forum At the same level as the International Council, of course we will need to complement this with norms and so on to see how it will work, including the relationship between the two bodies, but I think it is a big step forward for us to define the future of the wsm. Thank you very much. -------------

1h44mn

THIS PROPOSAL RAISES PROBLEMS MORE ELEMENTS ARE NEEDED

@25 Kamal This is a proposal that certainly moves the debate forward, but it raises many problems. If I remember correctly, this formula already existed within the World Social Forum, but it was not structured, and here and there we find ourselves faced with the idea of a permanent assembly, which would pose problems for the Membership of Operation Etc.

So it would be difficult to be able to comment on this proposal, if we do not have other elements, which in some way constitute the decision-making process within this same assembly, knowing that the minimum we have in the social forums is something that is around 50 to 60,000 participants, and assemblies of this type never exceed a thousand people, even those who take positions on behalf of the forum, I understood from our friend's proposal, that they would not take these fundamental positions of the Social Forum, but in the name of this assembly.

So let's try to advance a little more in Francine's proposal, to see if indeed there isn't something that comes especially close to Chico's position, to see if there is a way to reach Tunisia, with a proposal that would be almost unanimous. Thanks.

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@26 OLe I just want to say that I do not really share the enthusiasm about this proposal for two parallel processes, and with this ongoing assembly, I think there are many concerns, it needs to be understood a lot better, before it can be…

And i think it will make, even if it seems to be very clear on paper, i think in practice it will raise a lot of concern, and it will make more confusion about where those decisions and statements of this assembly, where they come from. So I just wanted to to to raise that Thanks

1h47mn

@27 Ian It is interesting that there are new proposals and that they are discussed, I think it is something other than the debate on consensus, although it is closely linked because the issue of consensus because we cannot reach an agreement. but they are different things, no, even if there are other decisions that also have to be made, then it is important, it seems to me

Regarding the assembly, it seems to me that it is an interesting proposal.

But now for me personally, what I spoke with colleagues from Attac, does not clear up our doubts because we have doubts about that, it is because we want everything, because there are two things, we do not want the world social forum to be a space where there is a fight of power, we are not interested in that way of thinking.

And the second issue is that the monopolization by a political group, of what the forum process is, and the assembly if it continues to be within the world social forum, these doubts are not cleared up, we can talk about it, perhaps the group that proposes the the assembly can clear up those doubts, but they are great doubts of ours, that it be a political battle within the forum, that the forum becomes that, beyond what it already is, and that it be like something to win

So that's why this proposal does not remove this doubt, but welcome and let's talk more, maybe with more time, etc. and everything.

1h49mn

A CLEAR REGIONALIZATION AND BETTER PREPARED ASSEMBLIES ARE THE WAY TO FOLLOW

@28 Tord Well of course I welcome this which has been proposed for decades. the response from Ole and ian is maybe rather predictable.

Ian says that we don't want social forum to be a place for struggle of power. How naive can you be! Ian come on ! Of course this is a space for struggle, come on ,if we don't acknowledge that level, we cannot discuss anything.

Ole put the normal sort of constant objection without any clarity sort of, It is admirable to do that, but it does not work, if at the same time you want to be constructive. The problem is the following : of course there are some aspects where there need to be more clarity. The whole idea to talk about the assembly is somehow in permanent shape, or ad hoc event on the same level as the international Council the WSF is a total mistake.

They are completely different democratic things. One is the Open Space, which I defend Which has some of these qualities we want, and the WSF has this capacity, and the international Council can defend that.

But then in reality, not being naive, there is a lot of political decisions made, when we define who's going to be the main speaker, when we define some leader, only certain politician or the politician why the zapatistas should be excluded etc.

This is very political decisions that have been made, and when we constantly talk about the success of the social forum in terms of how fantastic party have resulted and how the world social forum contributed both to lula’s victory and the great victories of the left in Italy, and then suddenly the left in Italy is totally wiped out from the parliament, and nobody discuss anymore the fantastic result of the European social forum for the left parliament

This kind of total lack of empirical discussion is driving us to Hell. In reality of course, it is exactly as Ole said , it is not possible to get 60 thousand people together in a big assembly ok how naive are we now?

But it has been done ! 50000 people participated at the Klima Forum in copenhagen decided on a common statement, with a process in advanced, by sending out emails everywhere in the world, and negotiating with the big movement , via campesian friend's of the Year etc and finally there was an open possibility for everybody participants of the 50000 of course many were not interested, but some were, and they had a qualified discussion, and the statement was made, “system change not climate change”, and then of course it was a sign on process, which is the obvious solution to this,

We don't need to add this kind of thing about qualified majority,

But it has to be prepared in a good way, and that's where the things come in, where we have to maybe some kind of thinking. In reality of course, when we are facilitating thematic sheme, we have actually already qualified majority.

When I Ian and paco decided to make this inaugural march by live things 24-hours, then this fucking idiotic process had delayed the decision, because, it was impossible more or less because nobody was interested in efficiency in this horrible undemocratic space, where filibuster Tactics, not necessarily willingly, are destroying any possibility to move the thing forward.

So six days in advance Paco Ian an I made a decision to try to make the impossible, of course it was undemocratic we did not ask Everybody , and it was a success afterward everybody claim it was a success. And now via campesina, now climate movement are repeating the model we started. So wake up look at empirical evidence it is possible to have an assembly with 50000 and of course also with 100 000 it is possible if we decide to prepare it, and keep out of any discussion, say that the assembly is on the same level, it is not!

The world social forum should continue to be an open space and it should have the qualities that such thing has, but it has to come to grips with the fact that it has failed utterly , and that was also said in a report from Mexico, in convincing main movements that they can have any use of this process, and I think by effort in clear regionalisation and by preparing better assemblies, that's the future. thank you.

1h55mn

AN ASSEMBLY THAT DOES NOT SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE WSF

@29 Chico. I speak in portuguese, sorry, I don't see the screen because my internet is very unstable when the screen appears, it confuses everything, sorry. Just to say that this proposal from Francine is perfectly acceptable. I have the impression that she opens a perspective of what many have already said. I just wanted to mention the concerns that Kamal raised, the concerns that Ian raised, and the possibilities that Tord raised now.

If we clarify that there will not be an organization that will make the space disappear, but that this space also exists, the space will continue to exist, I think Francine was very happy, when in her proposal she says something very precise that none, nor any other journalism, executive committee , coordinator of any other kind, speaks the name of the WSF, it is safe, therefore, the risk of confusing things. It was the big problem we had with the experience of the Assembly of Social Movements, which always wanted to speak on behalf of the WSF.

That and the mistake that was made, I just wanted to say that I think we have to deepen this discussion now, with everything that has been raised, very carefully, because it is a new step that is being taken, without precedent, that has to be done very carefully, careful not to spoil the road is already done, so I just wanted to tell you this that I am very happy that little by little we are reaching the solution of the problems we are facing, thank you very much.

1h58mn

THE ASSEMBLY HAS TO BE WITHIN THE WSF ASSEMBLY OF PEOPLES AND MOVEMENTS FORUM

@30 Rosa I think that this proposal that Francina makes us is very interesting and obviously the questions that they are asking have to be clarified in depth

I believe that the international council expresses the name of the council, or the members manifest themselves as a member of the council, like what we did now with Walden Bello, which was complicated, but finally we reached an agreement and our declaration came out in solidarity with the.

I think it is important to clarify when it manifests itself, what task it has, what must be taken care of as an international council, that it has its own functions, and

how we did it in the last world social forum, that perhaps this assembly of people and movements still has a long way to go to continue working.

It is true that each movement, each struggle can have its own assembly space to decide things, but when we go to the assembly of peoples and movements within the world social forum, we should think about the best strategy to dialogue, come together, continue strengthening the movements right?

So I think that obviously it has to stay inside, naming it as a people's assembly and movements of the world social forum, those of us who are there speaking in the name of the assembly that participates in this forum. And linked to what we are accompanying in these times regarding consensus or conflicts, or our interests.

It is evident that I have to recognize the interests, that implies a negotiation, and to recognize the different positions regarding this, I think that is what we have done, make a decision, and carry out the decision.

So, it seems to me that we are advancing towards these two levels within the same forum, both in terms of the tasks of the International Council, as well as the assembly of peoples and movements. Hamouda

2h00mn

DEEPER DEEPER THE ASSEMBLY PROPOSAL

@31 Hamouda Before the methodology group, I think we all agree that Francine's proposal is an interesting proposal, that we need to go deeper, that we need to document a little bit about how it will work, so because almost everyone says.

So I think we have to continue in this process, of operation, how it will work, all the technical material that will come out of that, and from there, we can debate in Tunisia, as Kamal says, have a consensus on this new entity. within the world social forum.

There is the second point, which is the methodology of the seminar, and there, if we take Rosa's proposal on this process a bit to Tunisia, I think that even the methodology that was presented or the process that was presented, is a bit the same, but how to get to the process that Rosie proposes for the unfolding towards Tunisia; the march to Tunisia France for this international seminar; I think that's the discussion. She left the floor to this group where Ole was and many people to talk to you. * 2h02mn

INPUT FROM METHODOLOGY GROUP INPUTS FROM METHODOLOGY GROUP

@32 Good Rosa from the methodology group, there are several of us, mainly Olé, Marcela, and now I also got in there and made this proposal, and I think we have to study fine-tuning it, there are some dates that are very close, and we have to define dates.

SUMMARY OF MARCELA

@33 Marcela only for the framework, according to you, we in the methodology and content group, we meet only once, but we work a lot online with Oleo Rosa and other colleagues, What we the summary of our discussion Ole sent it the day before yesterday again.

Our proposal is based exclusively, which was our mandate, on the programming of the four days of the seminar, we put 4 days, the first day, the first part was more to update the sociopolitical context, of the Maghreb mashrek comrade, In the afternoon we would begin, as a panel with international guests with some renowned ones, we talked a little about the intellectuals who would accompany, in the afternoon a kind of political discussion panel on the world context on the imperialist war and the climate crisis.

Second day of mainly debate Within this context of analysis of the situation with the other organizations that are not necessarily from the forum or that have left the forum and that supposedly would be invited to participate, and the second two days would be the third day on the future of the social forum, on consensus more political content of the forum and the fourth day was the most logistical organizational aspect the secretary…. .

This would be the 4 days in a summary Ole can add more, within this we also propose methodology especially in the third day work part when we were going to discuss the forum, work in small groups with some questions, guide the discussion a bit in a certain way to have clear conclusions.

That's as far as we got, after this we don't meet any more, and now we have the proposal that Rosy sent, so perhaps we would have to articulate the two proposals, that Rosy proposed it more as a virtual process from now until the seminar In Tunisia Rosy is like that? Hey if you have something to add.

2h05mn

WE HAVE NOT ADVANCED WITH A SINGLE MEETING

@34 OLe Thank you for going through the program as of now, and we had only a first meeting, we did not have the opportunity to have another meeting, so it's very much the same as it was presented last time, http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8j

I think input from Tord, I want to also discuss the regional level, it is an important input, and we need to take this also, i also just want to say that I agree very much with the proposal from Rosie and to have this debates before the seminar this online debates before the seminar; and I think this also will need to have some in impact on the programme at the seminar. We need to do I kind of revision of the program to look on what has been discussed before and what is left then to discuss in Tunis thanks

@35 Rosa We have to resume the proposal with the methodology group together with the colleagues from the secretariat that we are proposing to fine-tune the dates, I would say that we are in the group about 12 people so we could resume next week and fine-tune, I don't know whether to share by mail the proposed dates and decide there.

We can meet on Tuesday as we had already said, at 12 noon in Mexico and move forward and have a proposal for, with dates, everyone who wants to come is invited

I don't know if you agree Marcela.

Before Damián leaves, if Damián wants to mention it, we will agree on it because he has to leave.

Damien- okay Rosay - I've had lousy internet and I'm not going to mention anything

Pierre - the meeting Can't the meeting be just before 2 pm?

DISCUSSION SUMMARY MARCELA

@36 Marcela

After the presentation that Damien made on the summary, the discussion mainly focused on Francine's proposal, it was agreed that it is an interesting proposal that needs to be deepened, and that perhaps from this point, we can advance the process on the issue of consensus; on the functioning of the ci; why there are two proposals on the issue of IC, the assembly.

But there is no consensus, there are different points of view, no agreement was reached on that. There are different opinions, but that is a good start for discussion, I think that everyone agrees with that.

And second: the methodology we talk about being the first proposal of the 4 days of the group, second your proposal that we can articulate, what would we do a meeting next Tuesday to arrive at a meeting with the IC with the proposal elaborated with dates and more complete matter. That would be what is being discussed about the latest media now.

@37A Rosa : and it could be maybe the meeting could be earlier and if I don't know if it suits him at 8 in the morning in Mexico

Francine for what?

Rosa To find us the methodology and see the route

Pierre - yes we will speak at the meeting.

@37 Rosa Perhaps the consensus will meet; to refine the date with Paco, the date is pending. We agree to carry out this dialogue and also resume the proposals made.

2h11mn

I INPUTS FROM MOBILIZATION GROUP / INPUTS FROM MOBILIZATION GROUP

@38 Hamouda the two remaining points Mobilization is there something or they are not the ones who had to write the invitation letter. the letter has circulated there are comments; we have to decide on a date to launch this letter where a new thing must also be recirculated with a new date, redo it or deliver it; I leave the word to the people who are talking about that in this group was en masse Yann Tord Léo Adelante.

MOBILIZATION LETTER

@39 Rosa Leo had to leave but not if the others are good I was in all the groups, there is an elaborate letter, several suggestions were made, but the dates perhaps the letter proposal can be shared in the IC chat, and refine the date according to what is defined by the methodology group and what is approved by the IC,

I believe that everything is linked, there is a list of organizations that are forming to mobilize, and I believe that the mobilization also has to be, although a group defines the letter and the list, it is our commitment as members of the Council to also invite movements that we know and that we are interested in them being in this seminar, in this process-based dialogue, that is how it should be, we can ask him, I think Tiburcio was in this group, I read, I don't remember who else; you can share the Charter proposal, and adjust the dates, it cannot be shared yet, we are going to define the dates.

Tiburcio: the letter is practically ready Rosi, we can share the letter, with the change of dates we will have to make some adaptations.

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.7x

Rosa; The consensus committee and I think they met on Tuesdays, mobilization on Wednesdays, mobilization on Thursdays, the consensus meets this day later, is Tord okay?

2h15mn

NEED TO TALK ON THE PHONE WITH MOVEMENTS

@40 Tord I have indicated that there is a problem to make contact with some of the bigger main movements, as long as two things are uncertain.

firstly it's impossible to approach these movements, if there is any risk that decisions are made in their name without their approval, and this has been a sort of problem with the discussion, and this is a point which is sort of for the Open Space idea.

The other point equally important is that has been impossible, as long as there is not a kind of interest in efficiency, which Francine points at, and that efficiency is blocked by different kinds of endless debates,

So it's not possible to bring them to the table, especially movements who have their own spaces, who don't need a very opportunistic leftist world social forum, who don't address environmental issue, address climate issues, which is a very small part of the whole thing, who doesn't understand in need of equal importance of rural and working class struggle and who don't understand the enormous importance of the role of via campesina ?or only address it in terms of the organisation via campesina, and do not address in terms of political content.

So there has been a more or less historic impossibility for Environmental movement to come into the discussion, said this is about anti neoliberalism anti patriarchy and imperialism and very often exclude the dimension which is in the WSF declaration, which is that the relationship between human and nature is equally important in the declaration

and also this content left ideology as some kind of consensus that we all are left which doesn't fit for the environmental movement.

but these things maybe can be solved and I think the proposal by Rosie is good, and I think content of the so far, it is going into in the right direction in the preparations

If we can be a bit more efficient and really come to the decision and I'm normally used to some kind of order, but I don't even know who is actually coordinating the mobilisation group, and I don't believe in sending emails.

You have to phone them, to have to talk to them, otherwise you don't get them, and what we need of the movement that are harder to bring to the table, and then you really need to talk need to talk to them, that's the only way to do it, and we have to have a mobilization that's working, which is a problem, because mobilization is linked to Solutions in all the other groups, but hopefully you are going some steps forward and I apologize for being a bit blunt.

I think that we are here not as grassroots, we are here working on global level, and have to understand that we have to have a constant understanding of responsibility for the total situation we are acting on the top level, and we have to go back to the grassroots all the time, as well there is no contradiction, this is the classic people movement necessities, and there is no possibility of creating a top down assembly that makes decisions for movements.

There is only way forward for assembly, is that is grounded in realities, and that we can be helped by both spontaneous participation, in the spirit of the world social forum, and by the other processes, equally important, which is the intellectual have excluded, the constant integration between the movements, that goes on outside the world social forum process and if we can bring these things a little bit more together ,we can have a great day in the future.

2h20

THE ASSEMBLY MUST BE OF SEVERAL MOVEMENTS

@41 Rosa Certainly Tord; I think from the mobilization group; the letter is prepared, the list of who to invite is made, but those of us who invite are all of us who are part of the council, and we make sure that the mobilization team: I invite this one, this one, yes who did it? how to go about doing that follow-up so that no one is missing,

evidently the construction from being from the bases, from who are the movements, and around here someone said: it is not about being a group, that the assembly is from a group, but about several movements.

I think it is the challenge that we have ahead of convening the various movements that are not or are part of the council because there are many that are not. This is going to be the challenge, to make a powerful invitation, not to use what is doing, nor their speech, but to know how they are seeing reality, and also define what the colleagues said earlier, about relaunching the future of the forum, what is the point of the forum for whom? for what? these are fundamental questions that we need to answer, and well I don't know if anyone else would like to comment Ian?

2h21mn

INTEREST FOR THESE DIALOGUES

@42 Ian To say I think that the proposal that Rosy made at the beginning of this meeting, that can really bring people. We speak every day with the movements, in fact in July I spoke with a part of the Via Campesina in the secretariat called Morgane who is in Paris, we have meetings with them here in Attac France, we talk, they are not interested, let's be honest , enter into this subject debate, object I don't know what, they are not interested, but Rosy's proposal can convince them to come because even I am very interested.

So in this type of thing and it can be mobilized, obviously, and it would be very good just to say that, we are going to try and as Tord says, you have to call, a powerful letter will not do, you have to give a date Call and see

Rosa; agreed that's what it's about, to change, to move to rethink ourselves. So, Marcela, if you want to mention something to close, someone else, olé

Marcela about the secretary is what remains pending

Rpsa well olé and we passed to the other

NEXT APPLICATIONS TO IC

2h23mn

@43 Ole I wanted to ask if there are any pending application now for the IC, the time frame was that we can discuss new members in Tunis, but now Tunis is postponed, maybe it would be possible to look at those applications before tunis, so they don't have to wait too long.

@44 Hamouda I will finish , we need to have a proposition of a date in this month or next month, and I will send you the documents, and we'll have a meeting about the three propositions, not too much.

Pierre: What are the three hamouda? Hamouda Katalizo, West African Network and Rita's proposal submitted on behalf of the Free Media Forum Ian - and the Asian forum? Hamouda I have not received any proposal

Paco Meena was here but did not understand well Pierre I have the impression that they are going to send something Hamouda if they send it it will include it

CONTRIBUTIONS ON ORGANIZATIONAL MATTERS OF THE SECRETARIAT AND THE IC

TEXT BY MARCELA ON SECRETARIAT

@45 Marcela Send the notes in the chat in 4 languages, they are notes From 2 to meetings held by the IC organizations that expressed interest or intention to be part of the new collegiate secretary, we held a meeting on June 8 and one on March 26 July.

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8m

It was present CUT Brazil CEAAL Mexico FMAS Morocco FTDES Tunez Alternative candada, ATTAC France, I don't remember if I forgot any organization but this is in the notes,

The IC had decided that the final composition of the collegiate secretary would remain open until July 15.

So so that there is a consultation between the dynamic differences by continents, and waiting for that manifestation of the organizations, we held these two meetings, to advance proposals for both the composition of the IC and the tasks of operation.

Well, the most important point of this discussion was that the new secretariat should work closely with the current secretariat of the maghreb, which is in FMAS with the Hamuda era and with Rosa Y in a certain way too, to facilitate the transition.

The IC secretariat is a collegiate technical body to facilitate the process of the world social forum is the first definition, it is agreed that this secretariat must be representative, must have a clear capacity for executive technical work, that is, to resort to tasks in an expeditious manner with recuseo already weather.

Among the tasks that we identified would be to support, encourage and disseminate the thematic regional forums, facilitate the organization of the IC meetings, and of the IC work commission, guarantee the communication process, guarantee the organization of the historical record of the global prosocial process , update the IC membership list, make contact with organizations and movements that no longer participate in the IC and invite them to return to the IC and the WSF, support fundraising efforts for the world social forum process and the secretariat.

That would be the tasks of the great lines, in terms of composition

Who will make up the collegiate secretary first is to be an active member of the IC representing geographical regions and two representatives of the communications sector, representing organizations not individually, and its members must be indicated by the organizations they represent and ensure diversity? that we discuss will be having the resources and technical capacity to actively participate in the tasks of the secretariat,

Well that's it, I sent them to you in the four languages, you can read it more calmly, but it's what we had discussed up to now.

COMMUNICATION AND SECRETARIAT

@46 Hamouda There is one thing that needs to be added to this discussion, it is that the composition that was decided in Mexico was the decision to have two representatives per region, so, and there we could not, that is, there were regions that have not yet been presented , and there we had the proposal that came from our friends at IPS Tiburcio and Rita on the Latin American side, with the support of the Brazilian committee, that the secretariat there be added to this.

We had said that one of the tasks of the secretariat was communication, and that the collegiate secretariat of 2 per continent was going to invite as the Brazilians or the Latinos did to invite ipsi and ciranda to be there.

The other continents must also request membership of the groups that are in this group, to be part of this secretariat.

So we are going to be with a lot of people and that is why we have to deepen the real discussion of this collegiate secretariat, so that we know how the process is going to be carried out since the Europeans have not yet been able to meet, who was going to do it, they were also the proposals that were made, from ciranda and IPS there was Léo Gabriel who had asked to be in it, there was Red Kurdisch who asked to be in it, there to our friends in Africa, there is a mignane who offered to be in it, on behalf of the forum Senegalese,

So it is important that all these things there, that we know all that, so that we can really have a technical secretariat, who knows how it will work, in addition to that we must have if everything goes well with Francine's proposal, we are going to have two secretariats and two processes, so I think we really need to have this discussion in depth. 2h32mn

NEED FOR A IC POLITICAL ARTICULATION GROUP - INVITATION FOR INPUT ON THE IC ORGANIZATION

@47 Pierre Just to say that it seems to me that the discussion about the secretary is linked to a discussion about what IC do we want? for what? And how is it organized? because I remember that I would supposedly lend them only technically.

So the general organizational work, I think that it is not up to the secretariat, for example, to organize the IC meetings, it should be a coordination group. The meeting is face-to-face, but on the agenda, the date, the reason, etc. And how does the secretariat animate commissions, working groups, all of that is more political.

So the secretariat supports all these tasks, but it has to have a more political guide within the IC, because, at the moment, we see a secretariat that is expanding enormously, even in some way, swallowing what a communication commission of the IC could do. CI, and there is no political direction, the secretariat is supposed to be more permanent, acting with meetings, and between IC meetings there is no group that takes care that the dynamics of the IC are done politically, and not only technically.

So it seems to me that this discussion of the secretariat should not be brought forward with the general discussion about what ICand what we want for the WSF. It depends on the discussion that we are going to have in the next two months.

I propose that there have been two or some texts that I am going to show in the labels that I am making in the documentation: there is a text of mine and a text of Ronald Cameron that appeared here in the meeting, that they are talking about that

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8f

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.7m

So I invite more input on the organization of the IC and not just the secretariat, the secretariat is an element of the organization of the IC, to come in the coming weeks and what am I going to do also comments on the document that Marcela shared, I'll do it on the IC list, I won't do it now,

Because it seems to me that the agreement in Mexico was a secretary with technical tasks, it was affirmed and reaffirmed several times, the word technical secretary is used by Hamuda, but it is not used in Marcela's story, I think it is necessary to clarify more, I invite input on the organization of the IC, in the context of the general direction, and I announce that I will make a comment on the document.

2h36mn

THE SAME SECRETARIAT FOR BOARD AND ASSEMBLY

@48 Leo speaking of the secretariat I see two things: on the one hand it is urgent that we meet, and for this it is necessary to convene all those who are at the moment, and see who to communicate with from the regions that are not yet inside that is a point

I think that Hamouda, you have the list, not of all of them, and maybe for the first meeting, if you could set a date for this secretariat, why are we arguing?

Because I think it is also important that in the secretariat, the work plan, what we are going to do, maybe it is necessary to distribute the responsibilities, and I leave the discussion still open for me, if the secretariat would be only a secretary of the IC , because we are going to have many people, many needs, and we are not that many.

Then it would not be more sensible to have the secretariat, both for the assembly and for the IC since they are different processes, but at the technical level it is important that we do not have too many groups and groups, because otherwise, coordination is going to be difficult. .

MEETING 20 AUGUST ABOUT SECRETARIAT MEETING 20 AUGUST ABOUT SECRETARIAT

20 AUGUST MEETING ON THE SECRETARIAT

@49 Hamouda Thank you Leo. So we can hold a meeting on August 20, the first meeting on the documents that Marcela has already said, on the tasks and all that, on representativeness, because we have to present a paper with the operation and all that, tasks and everything, finalize so that we can send it to the town hall for validation. Marcela accepts Hamouda I read Hamouda very well: is August 20 convenient for everyone?

STATE CONSULTATION SECRETARIAT AND PREPARATION GROUP FOR IC MEETINGS

@50 Pierre Hamouda I have a question about the consultation, it is the consultation in Asia in Africa and Mina, can you clarify how it goes? We have no information.

HAVE SPECIFIC DOCUMENTS ABOUT THE FUTURE SECRETARIAT

@51 Hamouda: I haven't received anything. Ouattara has created a WhatsApp group about the FSA and discussing this and the mobilization in Africa, there is this, Ouatara is with us here in the meeting, he has just arrived. and Asia I spoke with Meena, to tell her that there needs to be a consultation between them in Asia so that they can introduce us to people, 2 people. but there with all of Europe, normally there was going to be a meeting, they checked the list of all the people who were members, I don't know where it went, it stopped or, besides, I can't tell you, that's the current situation.

So if everyone agrees, we have a meeting on the 20th with the people who want to be in this, since it is a working group, which can then come to a conclusion, I don't agree, yes we can continue working with these . people who have already done this, and review the final secretariat, when they finish the documents, because there is a debate, we have to continue the debate on this, not all of us agree on the way in the way.

REFLECT THE WHOLE COUNCIL ONE POLITICAL THING IN ADDITION TO THE SECRETARIAT

I agree with what Pierre said: apart from the secretariat, you need something political like the articulation group like the liaison group, so you have to think about that, because you have to think about the whole International Council, it is not the secretariat that that is going to solve the problem, but it is the whole body, the committees that have to work, and those things.

So it's a global thing, but we can with the people who wanted to be in this group, continue working, present a good document, so that, if we want to start off on the right foot, good work for the future. of the WSF, we really need to have documents that are consensual, documents where everyone agrees, and of course we won't have anything 100%, but as I said before "I don't love them either", that has always been our way of working, there were times when there were big organizations that were stronger and the small ones didn't pass, and there are other times when everyone agreed, so there are a lot of things about that Ouattara.

NEWS FROM AFRICA

@52 Ouattara Good evening, happy to join you because it's been a while since I've been a bit off, given my internal calendar which was very busy preparing for a high level forum on sustainable development in New York, I'm a bit free now .

Just yesterday I changed boxes with Hamouda compared to that we are completely absent from the device I think we will get the device back soon. And as Hamouda said, just before the WSF in Mexico, I created a ASF WSF working group, to be able to revive the FSA from its ashes, and we have already started the reflections, and for the moment we always continue,

And just tonight, a few hours ago, Mignane shared a message to a set of stakeholders at the device level of the anti-globalization group at the African level, and launched the idea of establishing a sub social forum. -Saharan. Well, he just released the move, I reacted to say, well, that doesn't make sense in another new space. Already the FSA that has made us proud in the past, even if it is asleep, we can always revive it, because we have the men and women capable of being able to do it, so the exchanges continue, and I have proposed that an articulation of all this dynamic be found there.

And at some point before Mexico, Pierre George had another dynamic, so all these dynamics, we have to find an articulation, like the one we don't know, to be able to channel our energies and then evolve together to occupy our place with health and dignity at the of the World Social Forum system.

I mean, okay, we're putting the elements together, here it is, to be able to build the FSA house and then join the dynamic, without forgetting the dynamic at the country level, I know that for example Senegal in terms of longevity, it's a very good For example, they have survived and gone through all the storms, all the difficult moments, and they have always organized their dynamics regularly. I believe that other countries like us on the Coast are inspired by this example, so in short, we are in a dynamic of reconstruction of space at the African level at first; this implies the space at the national, subregional and continental levels, go for reflection, and then position ourselves in the device and this is what I can say at this level

CONFIRMATION OF HAMOUDA AND ALAA BY THE MAGREHB MASHREK REGION

@53 Hamouda just to say that in the meeting of the Maghreb and Machrek, we had the Meeting in relation to the secretariat, and as we said in the last meeting, we recommend continuing Hamouda and Alaa also to respond to Pierre in comparison to the Maghreb-Mashreq.

DISCUSS THE MANDATES AND TASKS OF THE CEAAL VISION SECRETARIAT

@54 Rosa would like to point out briefly that, without a doubt, the secretary has to redefine his functions, he is not going to replace the Council, but I do believe that he has to define organizational tasks, a minimum structure, if not this remains in the air, then that It is yet to be defined, we have to talk about it and discuss it,

I would like to bring the experience of CEAAL, although it is in Mexico, it is a continental space, we work throughout Latin America and the Caribbean, and one of our tasks is a strategic coordination team, of which I am a part, along with a team of colleagues from different countries in the Caribbean, Southern Cone, Brazil, Andean region, and we also work by mandate, there are a series of mandates that the Assembly makes, because we have an assembly in CEAAL, a series of mandates that tell us we have to do that, but that strategically, politically, or even logistically takes care of what we are going to do like other assemblies, other events, this strategic coordination team takes care of it, and I would put it as a simili of the Secretariat.

Of course, spaces have to be activated that specify the logistics part, or the methodological part, tasks are delegated, like what we are doing, but someone takes care of the whole process, because if not, we lose ourselves. So that's the... I think we have to walk towards that definition, thanks

2h48

OF RISKS OF INTERNAL CONFLICT BY CONTINENT

@55 Kamal Just wanted to go back to the history of the secretariat and the criteria of representation by continents. there are risks that we should think seriously about this criterion, because there are great risks of entering into considerations of internal conflicts within the continents, and we are not deciding on the representation of people, but much more to precisely allow this inclusion of movements and new movements .

It may be that within a continent there is not really agreement between a series of movements within that continent, but who would like to be within that secretariat?

So think about it before embarking on a process that would be behind closed doors; and something that is much more likely to create conflicts for us; that to fulfill a final objective of this inclusion of the movements; whether old or new to the World Social Forum process. Thank you

@56 Hamouda thanks Kamal; I think we're going to close; because the interpreters are very tired we have exhausted them there is this emerson who is doing three translations so we have to stop the discussion it has not finished it will continue we have held three meetings that are the secretarial ones the group ones but in the home methodology, seminar and all that, that of consensus that are already programmed, and I think that of mobilization as well, but in any case the four are programmed with the matter. Thank you very much and sorry for our interpreter friends, thank you very much for your help, without you we cannot communicate, thank you very much again. We meet in working groups.

chat

1/ CALENDAR

@C1 From hamouda 04:09 PM

1- The progress of preparations in Tunis ( Alaa Talbi, Sami Adouani, kamal Lahbib )

2- he compte rendu des groups de travail:

a/ Consensus,

b/ Program and methodology,

w/ Mobilization

d/ Secretariat

1- I made two preparations in Tunes (Alaa Talbi, Sami Adouani, kamal Lahbib)

2- Or report two groups of work:

a/ Consensus,

b/ Program and methodology,

c/ Mobilization

d/ Secretariat

1- The progress of the preparations in Tunisia (Alaa Talbi, Sami Adouani, kamal Lahbib)

2- The report of the working groups:

a/ Consensus,

b/ Program and methodology,

c/ Mobilization

d/ Secretariat

1- The progress of the preparations in Tunis (Alaa Talbi, Sami Adouani, Kamal Lahbib)

2- The report of the working groups:

a/ Consensus,

b/ Program and methodology,

w/ Mobilization

d/ Secretariat

@C2 De Rosy 04:18 PM Marcela, could you take the agreements of this meeting?

From Marcela 04:20 PM Rosy, I can just that I'll have to be absent for about 20 minutes starting at 9:30 am I'll take the notes that I can, ok?

From Rosy 04:21 PM Ok

From Hamouda 04:21 PM leo-rosy-francine

De Rosy 04:22 PM Damien, could you support the agreements of this meeting, along with Marcela?

From Damien - Vida Brasil 04:22 PM ok.

From Rosy 04:22 PM Thank you!!

2/ POSTPONEMENT OF TUNISIA AND PROPOSAL OF ROSY WEBINARS

From Analba 04:18 PM I agree

From Ian - Attac France 04:19 PM

personnellement ça m'a toujours paru compliqué de faire ce séminaire avant novembre...

Personally, it always seemed complicated to me to do this seminar before November...

From Hamouda 04:25 PM leo-francine-marcela-analba

@C3 De Ian - Attac France 04:28 PM Rosy's proposal seems good and very interesting to me, maybe you just have to look at the dates a bit

De Pierre 04:30 PM and elaborate more on the definition and succession of themes

By Paco FocusPuller 04:31 PM Grazie Rosy

From Rosy 04:31 PM Okay. Topics and dates need to be adjusted.

De Ian - Attac France 04:31 PM d'accord

@C4 De Paco FocusPuller 04:32 PM There is the meeting of 20 years of Firenze Social Forum in Florence in November Just to advise you all

De Ian - Attac France 04:32 PMyes we need to take this dates in count10th-13th November

From Hamouda 04:32 PM Francine-Marcela-Analba-Paco

From Paco FocusPuller 04:32 PM ok

@C5 From Rosy 04:33 PM Okay, it's not another forum, it's a debate about the future of humanity.

From Rosy CEAAL 04:34 PM That is another debate and we have a proposal. That is another debate and we have a proposal. C'est un autre débat et nous avons une proposition.

From Hamouda 04:38 PM marcela-analaba

@C6 From Rita 04:41 PM

About the Seminário ea proposta de Rosy, Proponho tres coisas -

1. Consensus, decisions and collegiate secretary on matters for the forwarding of IC in progress and must be taken seriously and not postponed in the course of passages or further debates

2 - Debate on the future of Humanity, to be broad and inclusive, it must be held entirely online. It would be a second edition that we hold in 2020, so that it is more organized.

3 - O found Tunis fica in a financing dependency for the set of ICs and can occur on new bases and nao to postpone the current debate

About the Seminar and Rosy's proposal, I propose three things -

1. Consensus, decisions and collegiate secretariat are matters for now - IC referrals in progress and need to be taken seriously and not postponed due to passages or further debates

2 - Debate on the future of Humanity, to be broad and inclusive, must be done completely online. It would be a second edition of what we did in 2020, but in a more organized way.

3 - The Tunis meeting is dependent on funding for the IC as a whole and may take place on new bases and not to postpone the current debate

By hamouda 04:45 PM

A propos du Séminaire et de la proposition de Rosy, je propose trois choses -

1. Le consensus, les décisions et le secrétariat collégial sont des questions pour l'instant - les références IC en cours et doivent être prises au sérieux et non reportées à cause de passages ou de débats supplémentaires

2 - Le débat sur l'avenir de l'Humanité, pour être large et inclusif, doit se faire entièrement en ligne. Ce serait une deuxième édition de ce que nous avons fait in 2020, mais de manière plus organisée.

3 - The meeting in Tunis depends on the financing of the ensemble du IC and it is not avoir lieu sur de nouvelles bases et non pas pour reporter le debate actual.

From Rosy CEAAL 04:45 PM Okay Rita.

From Liege Rocha - Brazil 04:46 PM OK Rita

From Bartiria Lima da Costa 04:47 PM Agreed Rita

From Bartiria Lima da Costa 04:49 PM Agreed Rita

We agree with the change of data

From hamouda 04:50 PM Rita-pierre

By Rosy CEAAL 04:50 PM According to Tord

@C7 From Pierre 04:53 PM

I made the effort to document 40 texts in the discussion that is accessible here

http://openfsm.net/projects/tunis-sem-onwsf-0922/tunisfofmeeting-doc1

I tried to objectify 4 options for the IC

described 4 options for the IC

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.7y

From Hamouda 04:58 PM Pierre-Paco-Rosy

ORGANIZATION FOR TUNIS

@C8 From Rita 05:04 PM

A Collegiate Secretary could ter feito essa ponte entre Tunis eo CI

O Secretariat is open. But we do not have to engessar and force the countries to indicate. Because the Secretariat has objective functions.

From Rosy CEAAL 05:12 PM Yesterday we met with Violeta and Anna They will support us with the Consensus debate

From Meena Menon 05:12 PM postponement is a welcome step. Thank you.

@C9 From Pierre 05:14 PM

@I propose to reactivate the IC articulation group in the same way that we activated from April to November 2020 and that it worked well to conduct the work of 4groups of tunis preparation + the online discussion proposed by rosy

I propose to reactivate the IC articulation group in the same way that we activated from April to November 2020 and that it worked well to conduct the work of 4groups of tunis preparation + the online discussion proposed by rosy

@C10 From Tiburcio 05:16 PM

Good morning,

1. The real situation of the WSF and the IC is expressed in our inability to prepare an urgent Seminar on the Future of the WSF.

2. As a Collective of IC we are unable to self-finance the Seminar and we want to prepare it, just as our colleagues from Tunísia can help bank it. And isso for all of us is "normal". It's abnormal. It is a symptom of the declining picture in which we are in terms of IC and FSM.

3. We are not able to reorganize a Collegiate Secretary, despite the fact that this need was pointed out and proposed for more than four years. Isso is "normal"?

Conclusion: We should, to try to comply with what has been decided by us, redefine the commitments of each organization as IC. Each organization must have representatives and defined average hours of work dedicated to CI. Each organization should give a financial contribution to CI, under certain criteria.

However, it is difficult to do anything on the basis of "Each organization does or does not do what it wants".

(...)

Obrigado

Buenos dias,

This is an intervention that is not nice. I'm sorry.

1. The real situation of the WSF and the IC is expressed in our inability to prepare an urgent Seminar on the Future of the WSF.

2. As a collective of the IC we are unable to finance the seminar ourselves or even to prepare it, even if the comrades from Tunisia can help finance it. And this is "normal" for all of us. It is abnormal. It is a symptom of the declining picture we are in as IC and WSF.

3. We are not able to reorganize a Collegiate Secretariat, although this need was pointed out and proposed more than four years ago. Is this "normal"?

Conclusion: We should, to try to accomplish what has already been decided by us, redefine the commitments of each organization to the IC. Each organization has to have representatives and defined average working hours dedicated to the IC. Each organization should make a financial contribution to the IC, under certain criteria.

(...)

From Tiburcio 05:17 PM

Without this, it is difficult to accomplish anything on the basis of "Each organization does or doesn't do what it wants."

Because of this real situation we can only postpone the Seminar about the future of the WSF.

But this is bad and not "normal".

Thank you.

@C11 De Pierre 05:17 PM 4 groups - consensus + IC visions tunis methodology + seminar - tunis mobilization - tunis logistics + article group that prepares IC meetings

De Pierre 05:17 PM4 groups - consensus + IC visions tunis methodology + seminar - tunis mobilization - tunis logistics + artculacio group that prepares IC meetings

From Sheila Ceccon 05:17 PM exactly Rosy. I agree/ I grab Rosy

@C12 From Rita 05:19 PM

I propose that the organizations that apply for Secretary of Labor to organize the dialogues and also not to leave Tunis without a job to organize the IC information for the seminar - this was the main complaint and considered a fundamental job of the Secretary.

@I propose that the organizations that applied for the Secretariat already work to organize the dialogues and also to not leave Tunis without a job to organize the IC information for the seminar - this was the main complaint and they consider this a fundamental work of the Secretariat .

Sheila Ceccon 05:20 PM agree Rita / I agree Rita

From Liege Rocha - Brazil 05:21 PM Agreed Rita

DAMIEN'S NOTES

@C13 From Damien - Vida Brasil 05:21 PM

The seminar in Tunis will be held for November.

We need to make real efforts to organize this meeting

The main points of divergence are:

 Consensus interpretation

 IC decision making

- Collegiate Secretary

Be careful not to postpone important debates to avoid conflicts.

Túnis can be just a stage not a set of debates.

Make a proposal for a set of debates at the Tunis event, with virtual dialogues every 15 days at Tunis

need to date

- a list of people and organizations invited

 A seminar methodology

Proposal to have an entire day dealing with consensus

Proposal to recreate the 4 groups for

 Consensus

 Tunis Seminar Methodology

 Logistics of the seminar

 Mobilization for Tunis

Another proposal is to work as a secretary

From Damien - Life Brazil 05:31 PM

Le seminaire de Tunis will be reported this month of November.

Nous devons faire de réels efforts pour organiser cette réunion

fermer's kiss

 a list of invited people and organizations

- A seminar methodology

The main points of divergence are:

 Interpretation of the consensus

IC decision prize

- College Secretary

Attention à ne pas reporter les débats importants pour éviter les conflits.

Tunis n'est peut-être qu'une étape dans l'ensemble de ces débats.

I am proposing a series of debates jusqu'à l'événement de Tunis, with the virtuels dialogues all 15 days jusqu'à Tunis

Proposition d'avoir une journée entière consacrée au consensus

Proposal to recreate the 4 groups for

 Consensus

- Tunis Seminar Methodology

- Logistics seminar

 Mobilization for Tunis

An autre proposition est que ce soit le travail du secrétariat collégial avec le groupe organisateur de Tunis.

The seminar in Tunis will be postponed to November.

We need to make real efforts to organize this meeting

need to close

 a list of invited people and organizations

 A seminar methodology

The main points of divergence are:

 Interpretation of the consensus

IC decision making

 Collegiate Secretariat

Be careful not to postpone important discussions to avoid conflicts.

Tunis may be just one stage in the set of these debates.

There is a proposal for a set of debates until the Tunis event, with virtual dialogues every 15 days until Tunis

Proposal to have a whole day dealing with consensus

Proposal to recreate the 4 groups to

 Consensus

 Methodology of the Tunis seminar

-Seminar logistics

 Mobilization for Tunis

Another proposal is that it be the work of the collegiate secretariat with the Tunis organizing group.

3/ THE ROLE OF THE SECRETARIAT IN THE PREPARATION OF TUNISIA

@C14 De Marcela 05:22 PM The secretary should jointly with the compas from Tunisia organize the logistics of the seminar

From Rosy CEAAL 05:22 PM Okay Marcela.

By Sheila Ceccon 05:22 PM I agree Marcela/ I agree Marcela

From Rita 05:22 PM Sim, to Collegiate Secretary With the organizations that have been candidates.

Sheila Ceccon 5:23 PM Exato Rita

From Tiburcio 05:23 PM We are with great enthusiasm redefined or that we practically decided last June. The news is the progress on how to build consensus on Francine's proposal on the future of the WSF.

We are very enthusiastically redefining what we practically decided last June. What is new are the advances on how to build consensus and Francine's proposal on the future of the WSF.

From Liege Rocha - Brazil 05:23 PM Agreed Marcela

From Marcela 05:23 PM sim to collegiate secretary of course

@C15 From Pierre 05:26 PM

@The proposed IC articulation group is to schedule and prepare IC meetings and ensure the work of 4 groups and support from organizations that are proposed by the secretary

The proposed IC articulation group is to schedule and prepare IC meetings and ensure the work of 4 groups and support from organizations that are proposed for the secretary

From Rosy CEAAL 05:26 PM That could be the work of the Secretariat. This could be the work of the Secretariat. Cela pourrait être le travail du Secrétariat.

By hamouda 05:26 PM

The report of the working groups:

a/ Consensus,

b/ Program and methodology,

w/ Mobilization

d/ Secretariat

From Sheila Ceccon 05:26 PM Pierre, this is the job of the collegiate secretary

From Analba 05:26 PM I also got Rosy. to the secretary who should assume

From Pierre 05:27 PM

the secretariat is for technical tasks the animation group tasks IC is not technical

@C16 From Rita 05:26 PM Damien, please, will you add a proposal to the story, so that it is not necessary to ask for it again?

the secretariat is for technical tasks, the tasks of animation group are not technical

From Damien - Vida Brasil 05:28 PM Sim Rita, vc fala gives the proposal of collegiate secretary with the organizing group of Tunis for this preparatory work, is it?

From Rita 05:28 PM Isso

@C17 From Rosy CEAAL 05:28 PM Part of the change is that the secretariat takes care of this. Part of the change is for the secretariat to take care of this. Une partie du changement consists à faire en sorte that the secretariat s'en occupe.

From Sheila Ceccon 05:29 PM exactly Rosy

From Analba 05:30 PM exactly

From hamouda 05:31 PM merci Damien

@C18 De Ole - Norwegian social forum (mobile devi 05:32 PM the logistics and the mobilization could be delegated to the secretariat, the consensus, program and methodology should not.

By Sheila Ceccon 05:33 PM Yes Ole.

From Marcela 05:33 PM Ok. hello

From Rosy CEAAL 05:33 PM Okay Ole.

4/ GROUP CONSENSUS AND ASSEMBLY

From Ian - Attac France 05:34 PM But that's another debate isn't it?

@C19 De Pierre 05:34 PM list of documents on consensus list of documents on consensus http://openfsm.net/sitesearch?search_for=ICconsensus

From Ian - Attac France 05:36 PM The assembly thing is another debate I think

From Rita 05:37 PM É alternative to consensus - change to instance that decides

@C20 From Pierre 05:41 PM

about the discussion about option4 http://openfsm.net/sitesearch?search_for=ICoption4 - more texts will come as the discussion develops

@C21 From Rita 05:42 PM I agree with the Assembly's proposal, but we need to mature its role, formatting mode of coordination as CI.

From Rosy CEAAL 05:44 PM In agreement with Francine's proposal.

@C22 From tord 05:45 PM

Different aspects of the WSF are linked to each other. The structure of the inaugural march, assemblies, website etc may be separate from IC decisions but still is an issue for the discussion of the future of the WSF.

In reality some kind of qualified majority decisions are made when facilitating such processes, otherwise filibuster tactics (not necessarily badly intended) would delay all decisions so nothing can move forward. The ssue of eg regional reports as Rosy propose is a political decision, this was also the case when French central activists opposed organizing of Central and Eastern European social forum, everyone should be part of the European forum dominated by them. One can and must move fast sometimes to avoid unnecessary discussions.

When I, Ian and Paco decided to organize a global 24/7 march with live contributions and not only prerecorded videos there was only 6 days left and no time to ask everyone. Now this level is acknowledged in the preparatory papers which is good.

@C23 From Pierre 05:45 PM

Discussion on option4 will develop and is promising http://openfsm.net/sitesearch?search_for=ICoption4 - discussion on option4 will develop and is promising

Of course there are for the moment differences between the texts that are tagged option4 the discussion will develop - more inputs welcome it is clear that for the moment there are differences between texts that are tagged option4 - discussion will develop more inputs welcome

http://openfsm.net/sitesearch?search_for=ICoption4 -

@C24 De Mauri - Colectivo Porto Alegre do FSM 05:49 PM

Good morning everyone!

Participating here as a representative of the Porto Alegre Collective of the WSF responsible for the realization of the Thematic Social Forums of 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016 and the Resistance Social Forums of 2017, 2020 and 2022.

Not the Porto Alegre Group of the WSF had already expressed our position in the document that was presented by Francine: 1. That no one can speak in the name of the WSF, itself or the International Council; 2. That we need to have another space for permanent articulation, open, made up of international social movements, as a political actor that channels the accumulation of forces that are built in the processes of the WSF for a joint struggle against capitalism;

In this sense, we are in full agreement with the proposal.

Good morning everyone!

Participating here as a representative of the Porto Alegre Collective of the WSF responsible for holding the Thematic Social Forums of 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016 and the Social Forums of the Resistances of 2017, 2020 and 2022.

In the WSF Collective Porto Alegre, we had already expressed our position in a document in the terms presented by Francine: 1. That no one can speak on behalf of the WSF, not even the International Council; 2. That we need to have another permanent, open space for articulation, composed of international social movements, as a political actor that channels the accumulation of forces that are built in the WSF processes for the joint struggle against capitalism;

In this sense, we are in full agreement with the proposal.

De Mauri - Colectivo Porto Alegre do FSM 05:50 PM

Good morning to all!

In the WSF Porto Alegre Collective, we had already expressed our position in a document in the terms presented by Francine: 1. That no one can speak on behalf of the WSF, not even the International Council; 2. That we need to have another open and permanent space for articulation, made up of international social movements, as a political actor that channels the accumulation of forces that are built in the processes of the WSF for the joint struggle against capitalism;

In this sense, we fully agree with the proposal.

Bonjour tout le monde!

Participant as well as representative of the Collectif Porto Alegre du FSM responsible for the tenue of the Forums Sociaux Thématiques of 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016 and the Forums Sociaux des Résistances of 2017, 2020 and 2022.

Dans le Collectif FSM Porto Alegre, our planes let us express our position in a document in the terms presented by Francine: 1. Who can speak to the name of the FSM, like the International Council; 2. That we avons kiss d'un autre space d'articulation permanent et ouvert, made up of international social movements, as a political actor who channels the accumulation of forces that are built in the processes of the WSF for the common fight against the capitalism;

En ce sens, nous sommes entièrement d'accord avec la proposition.

@C25 From Tiburcio 05:50 PM

The Permanent International Assembly of the WSF, alongside the CI, will adopt democratic methodologies as wide as possible, using means and tools, including digital ones, that will enable effective participation by all, even for thousands and thousands.

The WSF Permanent International Assembly, alongside the IC, will adopt the broadest possible democratic methodologies, using media and tools, including digital ones, that enable the effective participation of everyone, even by the thousands and thousands.

@C26 From Francine 05:51 PM A political group??????

From Ian - Attac France 05:51 PM or one political camp more than another, yes

From Hamouda 05:52 PM Chico-Rosy

From Ian - Attac France 05:52 PM or idealist ?

Francine 5:53 PM Paranoid Ian...

@C27 From Pierre 05:53 PM

@the discussion There is talk of permanent assembly outside - assembly inside - being a participant in the wsf - being in the structure of the wsf - - being at the same level of the IC - coexistence with other assemblies etc... all this needs more discussion clarification etc

the discussion There is talk of permanent assembly outside - assembly inside - being a participant in the wsf - being in the structure of the wsf - - being at the same level of the IC - coexistence with other assemblies etc... all this needs more discussion clarification etc.

@C28 From Sheila Ceccon 05:53 PM

each one - IC e Assembleia - will have different attributions. E cada um falará em próprio nome / each - IC and Assembly - will have different attributions. And each will speak on their own behalf

From Liege Rocha - Brazil 05:54 PM What time are you going to the meeting?

From Rosy CEAAL 05:55 PM Ate as 12 pm Mexico / 14 hrs Brazil 1 hr and 5 min left.

From Analba 05:56 PM I will need to say 13 hours. I do not wait for the final report with the directions.

@C29 From Ronald 05:57 PM

The idea of a permanent assembly is interesting, But, I have always seen the IC as such an assembly. Do we mean an assembly of individuals?Il faudra well distinguish the rôles des instances. In the context of a permanent assembly of movements, it and aurait conflict with the CI, which could become the secretariat of the assembly.

A question remains; What role for the WSF in the future. To renew the FSM, it must change.

From Rosy CEAAL 05:59 PM Okay Ronald.

@C30 From MirekProkeš/PragueSpring2 05:59 PM I absolutely agree with Tord, it is necessary to act, not to go on fundamentalist filibustering

From Tiburcio 05:59 PM Muito bem, Chico. Very good, Chico

@C30 De Ian - Attac France 05:59 PM but Tord, we never speak in name of the forum during the March… and yes only idealist (naif) people do this kind of stuff: D with the march, we act, that's so much more interesting for me

@C31 From tord 06:00 PM Chico is not correct. I do not know of movements that want to talk in the name of WSF.

@C32 De Liege Rocha - Brazil 06:01 PM Hair that I know as Assembleias dos Mov. Sociais never wanted to speak in the name of the FSM, but always directed to the IC or story of the discussions

From Analba 06:01 PM Exact Liege

@C33 De tord 06:01 PM Yes Ian we act, an informally giving an image of the WSF: But march and assemblies do not speak in the name of WSF

@C34 De Ian - Attac France 06:02 PM so why we need to institutionalize an assembly for that ? to be successful an assembly need to come from grassroots not from top to bottom…

@C35 From Tiburcio 06:03 PM More importantly, we are advancing by collectively considering the new Permanent International Assembly of the WSF, alongside the CI, each instance with its own functions.

The most important thing is to move forward by collectively considering the new WSF Permanent International Assembly, alongside the IC, each instance with its own functions.

@C36 From Francine 06:03 PM it's another kind of assembly Ian, no, it's the assembly from before

@C37 As a boy 06:04 PM Please, Liege don't bring tona velhos maintainios, But excuse me, or I made a mistake, I woke you up...

From Leo 06:04 PM Sorry, but I have to leave, Desolé, mais je dois parte,

@C38 De Pierre 06:05 PM We keep on discussing option 4 - welcome input - we keep on discussing option 4 - input welcome http://openfsm.net/sitesearch?search_for=ICoption4 5 texts to date - 5 texto a la fceha

@C39 From tord 06:05 PM

The simple reason Ian is that organizing a process that really has. mandate from grass root movement requires preparations. When we decide to organize a march around the globe we are not any more grassroots only, we at this meeting are not only grassrotts. We are responsible for the future of SF and for trying to listen to qualified argument at this international level.

@C40 From Tiburcio 06:06 PM A decision that we must take here is to schedule the initial installation of the new Collegiate Secretary, including communication organizations.

One decision we must make here today is to schedule the initial installation of the new Collegiate Secretariat, including organizations from Communication.

@C41 De Pierre 06:07 PM latest version in the methodology group http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8j

last version in methodology group for 4 day meeting

now Rosa proposes to include the 2-month online seminar topics in the group Rosa now proposes to include the 2-month online seminar topics in the group

@C42 From Tiburcio 06:09 PM The new Collegiate Secretary must take on the work of systematizing and beginning to implement Rosy's proposal. The new Collegiate Secretariat must take on the work of systematizing and starting to implement Rosy's proposal.

@C43 As a kid 06:09 PM Ian, that is a point to dicuss very much. In the WSF spirit we cannot come with things from above, but link what is seen from above with what is lived and seen at the basis.

De Damien - Vida Brasil 06:09 PM pessoal vou ter que sair. Hugs for all and all. Je dois depart. A +. I have to leave. bye

From Marcela 06:10 PM ok Rosy

From Bartiria Lima da Costa 06:10 PM My internet is unstable, I'm in transit... we have an agreement with Francine's proposal, it allows other possibilities. ok rosy

From Rita 06:10 PMOk

@C44 De Ian - Attac France 06:10 PM Tord, sorry, i believe more in auto-organisation :)

@De tord 06:10 PM Sometimes auto organization is another word for market relations

@De Paco FocusPuller 06:10 PM Yes Ian but some time you launch a suggestion….

@De Ian - Attac France 06:12 PM Paco, Tord, we do that kind of thing inside open space, not assembly : https://plus-jamais.org/qui-sommes-nous/ (look the members ? do you know a lot of initiatives like this one?)

De Paco FocusPuller 06:13 PM Plus jamais ca I was at the demonstration in the end of 1988 I think we did a group of 3 coaches from Milan

De tord 06:14 PM Yes Ian, we have several initiatives like that in Sweden, and has since the 70s

From Ian - Attac France 06:14 PM GreenPeace with Unions ? Well than i know it's kind of new in France haha

De tord 06:16 PM Who is coordinating the mobilization group says a member embarrassingly

From Ian - Attac France 06:18 PMFor Tord, and Paco, let's do more this kind of things (the idea come from an open space) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC_SpNRvuo&feature=youtu.be

From Paco FocusPuller 06:20 PM I'm always available .....for this kind of challenge

@45 From Rita 06:21 PM Everything that Tord says needs to be discussed, so that Assembleia doesn't belong to a group. It is enough to talk about the concerns and think about the rules and limits. We need to dig deeper.

From Ouattara 06:24 PM Bsr g viens de vous rejoindre OUATTARA FSA Côte d'Ivoire

@De Rosy CEAAL 06:24 PM That's what it's all about.

@C46 From Francine 06:25 PM Of course, there is much to delve into, but: please forget the formulas of the assemblies from before

From Rosy CEAAL 06:25 PM Also Francine.

From Tiburcio 06:26 PM Isso, Francine.

@De Rita 06:26 PM Exactly Francine. A Assembleia must be representative and mobilizing. A lot of work peels off.

@As a boy 06:26 PM ok Francine. It is inventing something that does not exist. a challenge

@De Rosy CEAAL 06:26 PM We have everything to build it.

@C47 From tord 06:29 PM

Yes the assemly should be different from before, and th tension between sometimes bruaucratic international social movements and spontneous new energing movement has to ne acknowledged as well as the need to make it calera that the assmelby is not sopeaking in the name of WSF or organizations that do not sign the decisions made

The big part of WSF will of course still be self organized

NEW CANDIDATES CANDIDATES GROUP SECRETARIAT ORGANIZATION OF THE IC

@C48 From Rita 06:27 PM FMML didn't send a proposal Just decided to do the necessary paperwork. More everything involves more discussions.

From Rosy CEAAL 06:27 PM Sim, I saw that it arrived.

From Ian - Attac France 06:28 PM When is the meeting for new members ?

@De hamouda 06:28 PM je ne sais pas peut être septembre debut

@C49 From Tiburcio 06:30 PM

IPS also participates and wishes to participate as an international communication organization.

IPS has also participated and wishes to participate as an international Communication organization.

From Rita 06:32 PM

Marcela, please name the organizations that will participate in these meetings and also apply for the indicated forums.

No purpose, but there is always a silence about these organizations. Why? ace of communication

From Tiburcio 06:33 PM Ficou also decided, Marcela, to participate in communication organizations in the new Collegiate Secretary.

It was also decided, Marcela, the participation of Communication organizations in the new Collegiate Secretariat.

IPS as the International Communication Agency has representatives from five continents. IPS as an International Communication Agency has representatives in all five continents.

From Rita 06:34 PM Marcela, I ask you to please include me and don't report what you are distributing.

From Marcela 06:38 PM Ok Tiburcio, sorry if I didn't include

@C50 From Pierre 06:33 PM

http://openfsm.net/sitesearch?search_for=ICorganizing

4 documents in the discussion about the organization of the IC - more inputs welcome

4 documents in the discussion about IC organizing - more input welcome

@C51 De Rosy CEAAL 06:37 PM It is part of the functions

@De Sheila Ceccon 06:38 PM It is the secretary's responsibility to organize the IC meetings. tem been assim. / It is the secretariat's responsibility to organize IC meetings. It has been this way

From Rosy CEAAL 06:38 PM Also Sheila.

From Rita 06:38 PM Exact Sheila

Marcela 6:38 PM sim sheila

From Liege Rocha - Brazil 06:39 PM Exact Sheila

@C52 De Ian - Attac France 06:39 PM Hamouda, we have to add Leo to the WhatsApp group. De Rosy CEAAL is not there 06:41 PM Tiburcio, who from IPS will be in the Collegiate Secretariat? Yes Leo, you have to think about what is needed.

@C53 From Pierre 06:40 PM

http://openfsm.net/sitesearch?search_for=ICorganizing

about the organization of the IC and the secretariat

about organization of IC and secretariat

more input welcome - more inputs welcome

ronald doc http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8f

Pierre's document http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.7m

The organization of the IC cannot be summed up in a secretariat that was agreed upon as technical

@C54 From Pierre 06:45 PM

It would be good to have information on the consultation processes in the African and Asian regions and Magrhb Mashrek

@C55 From Rita 06:46 PM

I think that, for the functions of the Secretary, it is important to have a minimum structure or, as Tibúrcio says, time available to help. How I help each other depends on their regional priorities. But we are not going to ignore disso.

From Rita 06:48 PM Parabéns ouatara pelo esforço. Redeeming the FSA is very important.

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