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CI MEETING SEPTEMBER  10 @10 - @20 - @30 - @40 - @50

 Here the recording of the session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX9uUaGKRCU 

22 people present - Alaa/FTDES @31 - Carminda/ CF FSM2016 @18   - Cesare/ IAI @36@4246C   - Damie/ CF FSM2018 @7E@24C@35   - Gus /CRID - Hamouda/FMAS @22@30@33@ 38@40@48@52@54 - Leo /MARCHES @3 @7G@37 - Liege /FDIM - Marcela /ALTERNATIVES @8@44 - Meena/FC FSM2004 @53 - Mignane /CF FSS - MikeI/AI- @24B  Oded /CIVES - Ole /NSF FC @16@16D - Oscar ? - Pierre /CARITAS @2A@7@12@19@24@25B@26@50@57 - Rand /ISF FC -Rita/CIRANDA   - Rogelio /CUT - Rosy/CEAAL @1@14@16E@21@23@27@29@34@39 @49@51@56 -Sheila/CEAAL @2@4@6@10 @13@ 17@20@25@28 Tiburcio/IPS @15 - Tord/VK @11@16C@19A   - Zachari/ PSF FC  @9 

CONTINENTS

AFRICA   - Mignane   - Mike@24B -Hamouda@22@30@33@38@40@48@52@54

AMERICA Carminda@18 - Damien @7E@24C@35 - Liege   - Marcela @8@44 - Oded Oscar   - Rita   - Rogelio   - Rosy @1@14@16E@21@23@27@29@34@39 @49@ 51@56 -Sheila @2@4@6@10 @13@17@20@25@28 - Tiburcio @15   

ASIA - Meena@53 - Rand   - Zacharia @9 - 

EUROPE Cesare @36@4246C - Gus- Leo @3 @7G@37- Ole @16@16D - Pierre @2A@7@12@19@24@25B@26@50@5722@30@33@38@40 @48@52@54 -- Tord @11@16C@19A    

MAGHMASH Alaa @31- Hamouda@22@30@33@38@40@48@52@54- Rand   - Zacharia @9 -

 INTRODUCTION

@1 Rosa Good morning I see those of us who are present here: this tiburcio from ips Liege of FEDIM? Sheila from Paulo Freire Institute? Rogelio From the CUT Cesare from the international alliance of inhabitants Leo from European marches if I'm wrong, I'll read it, correct me, this is also olé from the Norwegian social forum Marcela from alternatives Canada, Pierre from Caritas, Rand from the Iraqi social forum Gustav de Crid, Damián of life Brazil, rita freire de ciranda and zacaría From Palestine Okay, thank you very much. Well, and I, Rossi Zúñiga from CEAAL, my colleagues continue to arrive, which is good, and well, here I missed the notes, Oded arrived from the Sustainable Cities Institute. 

To facilitate the support of the interpreters, it is always good to use a hearing aid because that helps them not to be heard more clearly that there is no external noise also that we speak slowly, perhaps the emotion reaches us and we speak very fast that our diction is good so that it is understandable And that when we speak, say what languages ​​we are going to speak so that the interpreters who are supporting us are also prepared, this makes the meeting easier for us.

Well, perhaps the emotion comes to us and we speak very quickly that our diction is good so that it is understandable And that when we speak we say in what languages ​​we are going to speak so that the interpreters and the interpreters who are supporting us are also prepared, this facilitates the good meeting to tell them that Hamuda is going to join late. 

We don't have anyone from Tunisia right? it's a problem it's a problem we also had the agenda, like the one you're seeing I don't know if it's above Pierre's comments, which he put here,

INITIAL AGENDA 

@1AFrom Rosy Zúñiga CEAAL 09:15 PM

IC meeting agenda.

Welcome and acknowledgment of those present. (15 minutes)

Preparations for the Seminar in Tunis (45 min)

Presentation by the companions of Túnes

Debate

Agreements

Virtual Global Dialogues by Continent

Proposal of dates and methodology (10 minutes)

Debate in groups by Continent (30 min) Africa-Asia-Europe-America-Middle East.

Plenary 30 min

Agreements: 5 min

Next IC meeting

The idea is to recognize who we are, it is good to recognize us, welcome Oscar from Mexico

 Well, the colleagues from Tunisia will share with us what progress they made to send us a letter, everyone could and the letter I sent was the comrade from Tunisia. ?

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8t

If I read it OK we read it too Well I don't know if we wait for someone from Tunisia to arrive so we can board alone

@1B Marcela The order of the agenda will also change starting with the proposal of the dialogues. 

@1C Rosa then good Sheila I'll give you the floor for that.

PROPOSAL OF THE TUNIS METHODOLOGY GROUP.

@2 Sheila PT 5mn Look at all the last ones too. we had a methodology group meeting; If you speak too fast please let the translator interrupt me. We had the methodology group meeting and then I don't know if everyone will be able to read the agreements.

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8r

 So the flight to recover the sea in what we are proposing from the methodology group. and the idea that after that everyone here goes to a group on their continent, so we can move forward.

Recalling the agreements that we say, what we are proposing from a methodology group is that the dialogues and the organization of the dialogues be carried out by continents, and coordinated by the organizations that are part of the IC of each of these continents.

The idea is that these guests, these organizations that are invited, are all guided by problematic questions, questions that must be answered during their speeches, and these same questions must be presented to all the guests. In this way, we can systematize all this content, all these contributions and all these contributions, will provide elements to discuss the future of the Forum at the Tunis meeting.

So the questions we are proposing are: What is the reading of the context in your region? What is your reading of the context in your region? A question. The other What are the problems and what are the problems the struggles that you are facing What are the main struggles, main problems. What you are doing to address these issues are the resistance actions that are underway. And a fourth question: can the World Social Forum contribute to these struggles?

Regarding that last question, again 100% agree on size 5, one person did not agree, one organization was Caritas, but four other people agreed from 80 of the Gifts.

So the idea is that the organization of the story that each continent assumes an articulation with these guests, present the questions and among the guests, the proposal that takes care of the parity of gender, race and ethnicity, in which intellectuals, members of movements, members of civil society, is that we seek to bring to this indigenous dialogue people of African origin and Afro-descendants that we care to see in the city; that has a gender parity As already said men and women.

Finally, we have to guarantee in this listening to the diversity that the people that exist in the world recognize the importance, to reduce diversity so that different voices, different places, different profiles are heard.

The suggestion is that we do not carry out a dialogue with more than 2:30, we know how to schedule more than 2:30 a little more so as not to disturb 2h:30 of planning.

The idea with the suggested date is that we start these dialogues on October 6, so we would have a little less than a month there, so that we organize ourselves to make this invitation, which is the first dialogue.

With the dates relative to the dates and the order of participation by continent, the group's suggestion was that on October 6 we listen to civil society from Asia, then Africa on October 13, Middle East on October 20, October 27 in Europe and on November 3 in America. then after that, this listening by continent, the idea that we move to a moment of thematic dialogues. So even from these dialogues we all take advantage of these important inputs so that we have an idea of ​​when the topics will be.

But based on their contributions, everyone will be able to organize this, this content, everything that will be recorded, and propose three global thematic dialogues, which would be a good day November 10, 17, 24, since the meeting would be very close to expensive in Tunisia, that's why this organization has no way that we can play later, which is important for us to be able to have all these inputs and contributions before the meeting in Tunis and like a week and days for us to process to systematize all of this.

So this idea: a round of dialogue throughout the continent, then three thematic dialogues on those dates that were proposed. I think we could open a dialogue, for your comments anyway, that's the idea that, after this round of this discussion with you about this in this group, you already agree, the idea that we are divided into groups by continent, because here whoever is from the IC who is from these continents can already articulate to try to reach some agreement regarding the possible guests or not even that.

And the idea does not come into the account at that moment, but that each IC group on each continent can think about how it is going to organize itself. for example, each continent, each group of continents will create a specific WhatsApp group already including the guests and passing information and dialogue from there, discussing before determining who will be invited, who will not, scheduling meetings with the CIs of each continent the idea of that in this meeting from this dialogue of the Small Groups it is possible to begin to articulate to organize this meeting with representatives; intellectual intellectuals of civil society from each continent. That's all folks. I would like to hear from you now, if it's good, if you want to complement or disagree with something, finally the microphone is open. I get something wrong explained Leo with you.

 SOME COMMENTS FROM CARITAS

@2A FF- there are also synthetic images on the suggestion of names of exhibitors and CI mapping by continent

The formulation “ Can the WSF contribute to these struggles? » implicitly presents the forum as a process-actor “that contributes to struggle"

The proposed alternative formulation is “ Can active participations in the WSF contribute to these struggles? » How? presents the forum as a space-process of intercommunications, where one actively and voluntarily participates with various participation goals.

MORE GLOBAL DIALOGUE 

@3 Leo 14mn Good afternoon I find the rapprochement through these questions that we hear very interesting. 

I would insist very much that the most important is the last question because it follows from there what the function of the world social forum really is within the spectrum. I am a little afraid, listening to the first questions, which lend themselves a lot to giving speeches, which can be interesting for us to know the realities of each one of the countries and localities.

I think that it would be necessary to focus a little more, in the sense that it would really be limited to the contribution of global struggles, or the incidence could be at the local and national level, preferably a more regional analysis, so that it really stays, not in too many particular struggles, which have nothing to do with globalization, with the global world as such. So this. 

And I still have a question that could be when we invite people to participate at the level of the different continents or different regions, can it be done informally or does it have to be made known? like how long before and so on that is.

DO NOT DEDICATE TIME TO ANALYSIS OF THE SITUATION IN TUNISIA

@4 Sheila PT 17mn In the question I understood what you think the lines of the region itself should be. I didn't understand sorry. His first point is that discourses about contexts are regional and not global. And that Leon? Because this question, what is the reading of the context in your region, opens the question is already focused on the context of your region, therefore, listening to each continent, then there will be an analysis of the situation and listening to the world situation . .

Because the idea is that in Tunisia we do not spend time analyzing the situation. The analysis of the situation is already taking place in these dialogues that precede the face-to-face meeting. The idea is that everyone talks about their region in the context of their region. Regarding the invitation, the idea that I understand is that the invitations are presented at the IC, each region will suggest names to be invited, and I understand that these names will be presented at the IC. Now, whether it's going to be a formal invitation or not, we have to decide together.

@4B Leo Just a more specific question, the word “proposals” could be used more, proposals that come from different regions, proposals to the world.

@4B Sheila When you read about the context in your region, what issues of struggles you are facing and what you are doing to face this struggle, how can the Social Forum contribute to this struggle. Where would you like to present Leo proposals?

@5 Leo I think in point 3 something.

@5B Sheila PT (look at Leo's chat with 3 what are they doing to deal with these problems and these fights? What are these resistance actions? What are these fights in progress and what needs to be done to deal with them? After Leo if there was a suggestion more specifically, the word for Rosa after Pierre and Marcela.

A FIFTH QUESTION 

@6 Rosa Well, it seems to me that, based on several comments, it seems to me that what Leo says is important, so that reading the context does not make us lose ourselves, and focus on the key point, what is it that we are discussing within the IC, how movements are articulated for action, or how we articulate ourselves for action.

But if it is important to have that reading of the context and the problems, but here I see that Damien is proposing a fifth question that is "what is the proposal of the region for global incidence". Sounds interesting. Regarding what Leo asked and part of the methodology commission in which he participated or spoke slowly. 

On the one hand, I believe that it is autonomous for us to define who we want to invite, and that in the collectives, in the groups that are being proposed that who decides who is invited, we be what we are, two of the six continents that we are part of America Europe, Africa, Asia, perhaps the Middle East as well, and that many of us have made suggestions for some of the Americas, for others who have been from other places, the IC has come up for other continents, which is good.

A FORMAL INVITATION DOCUMENT 

This implies, of course, that the team that organizes that dialogue is also organized, so that it has someone to moderate the session, someone to do the systematization. In fact, we have to do a dialogue, just as we broadcast it, it is important that it be broadcast live, or that someone else comes into the room and the session is recorded, how do we do it in all the meetings This is not under discussion, this has to be done, because it is important. And we could say that each group names someone who is moderating and systematizing what is being discussed, I don't know. I think that was my reflection there, thanks Sheila.

@6B Sheila I think this very interesting proposal from the groups to forward the names of the invitees to the methodology group, and the group sends a formal invitation on behalf of the WG I think this proposal is interesting.

ANOTHER CI MEETING TO START? 

@7 Pierre 24mn First element we are short We are short yes I think it is due to the short time between the announcement of the meeting. It seems that if we had waited one more week we would have allowed better mobilization and that the groups by continent of Asia, the only person who can be considered are Zacarías and Rand Who are from Palestine from Africa I hardly see anyone So it is a problem of sustainability of this meeting maybe another one should be held next week would be a proposal. 

ROLE OF A SECOND IC MEETING AT THE END OF SEPTEMBER

Second. Yes, in the group discussion, we have agreed on two meetings of the IC to make the date of October 6 viable as the first dialogue. In other words, a meeting that would launch these groups by continents, which are the vehicles for organizing the dialogues, and that they work for 15 days and come to show where they are at the end of September, so that we can, say, have a good vision of what is going to happen 

They also have the second meeting at the end of September, the methodology group makes concrete proposals on the thematic dialogues that for the moment we have not discussed in the group. 

So I propose that there be a second meeting for the same Saturday, to better launch the dynamics and that a meeting be announced at the end, which would be the first of October, to do the two things that I mentioned.

SITUATION ANALYSIS 

A third point: these meetings have been conceived as mainly a way to analyze the situation, as Sheila said. Those are the three questions, that there may be discussion about whether to be more global, Francine said What is the reading of the world from your continent, in short, there may be nuances about these questions, but this is the strength of these meetings.

FORMULATION OF QUESTION 4 IN RELATION TO THE FORUM 

Yes. There is agreement that there is a fourth question that links the exhibitors that will be a limited number, and chosen by the continent groups on how they see the forum. So here is the question of the formulation of the question. From Caritas, we think that the formulation should not be presenting the forum as if it were a kind of actor process, which contributed to the struggles, but as the active participation in the forum can contribute to the struggles. Because until further notice, the forum is a space for intercommunication, and it is through active participation that organizations can get something out of the forum.

 So the formulation of that question is an important point, because it conveys an image of a forum from which support is expected, as if it were an actor outside the organizations, or if it is an intercommunication process, where the organizations come to participate. with your own goals and expectations. I'm not going any further at the moment.

WHATSAPP CI GROUPS BY CONTINENT INCLUSIVE TO PEOPLE FROM THE CONTINENT

Another point ; The issue of organizing the groups that are going to prepare their dialogues Sheila has suggested creating a WhatsApp group. I think it's a good idea. of these groups it should be known who the moderators are and that the information that has been created should be circulated in the IC and that they be inclusive, that is to say that any member of the IC of a continent can request inclusion in this group, and that it be here where the group is going to prepare, decide on the list of speakers, how the time is going to be organized, who is going to moderate, these very specific things, because the referrals that we have made in the working group, the proposal is that these groups be the organizations of the continent that are responsible for carrying out the dialogue. 

Sheila - Pierre please if you can finish.

@7B Pierre So, what Rosa said is that the methodology group would make an invitation matrix, and what would be later, these groups by continent would decide who they would send the invitation to, which seems to me consistent with what is proposed with the group that are their continent groups load Nissan from A to Z with some common guiding questions like that, but it's not what Sheila said, Rosa has said something else. This point must be clarified, there is an autonomy of these groups and it must be clear. 

DOCUMENTATION OF THE DIALOG SESSIONS

My last point is about the documentation issue. The working group has not made any proposals in its narrative. This is a point that you have opened for more discussions, there have been no guidelines from the group, on how it will be documented. And as Rosa has said, the basic principle is that there is a hidden video available for all IC members, so that they can use the material, and of course if there is a way to make stories with a certain collective meaning, it can be explored, but basically the material must be available to everyone. Here it stopped me.

@7B Sheila 32mn I say that in relation to my speech, different from Rose's, I totally agree with Rose that the groups have autonomy to define their guests, there is no disagreement

@7C From Pierre 09:35 PM

About question 4

The formulation Can the WSF contribute to these struggles? implicitly presents the forum as a process-actor “that contributes to struggles”,

The proposed alternative formulation is Can active participation in the WSF contribute to these struggles? What? presents the forum as a space-process of intercommunications, where one actively and voluntarily participates with various participation goals.

@7D From Rosy 09:37 PM

1. What is your reading of the context in your region? 2. What are the problems they are facing? 3. What are you doing to deal with them? 4. Can the WSF contribute to these struggles?

@7E From Damien 09:37 PM

The fifth question would be: What is the region's proposal for global advocacy?

@7F From Rosy 09:43 PM

We are 22 people from the CI.

The comrades from Tunisia have already made a proposal for Topics. can be resumed

From Sheila 09:43 PM

the themes will emerge from the listening carried out in the dialogues....

@7G From Leo 09:48 PM

What are the priority political proposals for your region that should be supported by the other regions?

@7H From Pierre 04:52 PM

CI membership map by continent

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8r/Continent-groups-in-IC-V1.png 

@8 Marcela 33mn I'm going to speak in Spanish and I'm having problems with the camera. I am participating in the metrology group, and I could not participate in the next meeting, but I wanted to say that the proposal they made seems super interesting to me, I think that we are going to be able to move forward with this proposal because we have been going for two months, I thought that we were a bit blocked to make this proposal, which was worked on in the last meeting, I see that we can really start to move forward. 

BE MORE GLOBAL 

It seems super interesting to me, the only concern that I have a little, is that if we hold dialogues by region by continent, my fear is that we stay to make readings of the continent, and I don't see what would be the common thread, with the other regions, to have a more analysis of the global context, I think that somehow Leo Damián also said it. 

I think there should be something that, when we arrive in Tunisia, we will undoubtedly arrive clearly with respect to the situation in each of the regions, but what would be the common thread for the analysis, I say, of the whole. . 

What interests us as movements, as global organizations as well, is to have a global analysis of the context. What are the common elements, because based on these common elements, we will be able to have our global agenda, what is one of the objectives, the reason for the existence of the world social forum, because each one of us in our regions has our agenda a regional reading but what interests us is that global reading. 

What are the common points and, we have to see how we face them from these regional works to reach these conclusions and arrive with this reading together with Tunisia That on the one hand. 

I also fully agree with what Rosi said, that the regions, once they do their job, determine the procedure to carry out the dialogue, have the autonomy to choose their guests and that we do not need to come to a CI meeting for the CI as a whole to approve. . We are going to make the process more bureaucratized, we are organizations from the continents and we have to have autonomy to decide, I think that would be mainly. Congratulations, an excellent proposal and I am going to withdraw for 5 minutes but I will come back thanks

Sheila perfect Marcela total agreement with her fala Zacharia and then tord

@9 zakaria Yes Hello  everybody I read the proposal, I think it's interesting and good I participated in the process as part of Asia social Forum.My only concern is two issues is that with regards to the last question the fourth question, the sequence of the question, if we keep it like that the last question in my opinion is the most important question. I'm worried that by the time peep the speakers speaking about the region they will go on it would be like a long speech and when they come to this last question, there will be no more time for that So this is I think we'll have to be careful because I believe the last question is the most important question which connect to wsf..

BRIEF THE SPEAKERS ABOUT FOURTH QUESTION

The other issue is I think it is very important that there should be some communication with the speakers in advance, so they know what are we expecting or what you were talking about how the process will be so they don't use most of the time to speak about challenges and issues they are facing in their countries. thank you.

MERGE QUESTION 5 AND 6 INTO ONE. 

@10 Sheila PT was signed up; just to make two kind comments. First I think that having this sixth question We proposed 4 questions plus 2: the fifth "What is the region's proposal for global incidence" and the sixth "what are the priority proposals in your region that should be supported by the other regions ". I think we could try to merge these two into one. I think it would be possible to write an essay that, together, I don't know if Damián and Leo want to talk about something in parallel, together it would be a path.

And then he wanted to disagree with a proposal that Pierre presented. I think that these groups by continents have to be with participants from the continents and without listeners from other regions to avoid this, to facilitate reaching agreements because I think I already see Pierre trying to get into all the groups, trying to print something. that people knowing that often makes it difficult to reach agreements. (see @7 and it is seen that it is not that it was said by Pierre) So that each continent has its meetings with the people of the continent, reaches agreements, makes invitations, delivers the guest list and anyway continues with success . .

@11 tord 38mn  Thank you very much for the invitation to this meeting. I think I'm pleased that the regionalization issue has been dealt with seriously. I know actually the next step of regionalization would be even more important, but we have to be realistic.

I mean in Europe it's quite open in this Central and Eastern Europe are marginalized in this process. This is the case also in other continents but anyway this is a step forward and is welcome. 

NO PROBLEM TO KEEP GLOBAL FOCUS

The point made is that the way it is formulated there is the risk of losing the global perspective, but god heaven we are talking about popular movements, and popular movements know these things. So I think we cannot over-detail everything it's not possible, one has to trust that movements are clever enough for understanding that it is a global context, and at the same time also able to address local National or Regional issues, and somehow combine this.

This was evident when we had a national meeting shortly announced on the issue of NATO enlargement to Finland and Sweden, with the leadership of the peace movement globally present. Of course we dealt with all levels at the same time : the very specific circumstances in Sweden and Finland, slightly different, and how to put it in the global context, outside of what the peace movement is normally doing, because environmentalists who had been doing this without the securities and environment issues and also as a social ecological and economic antineoliberal issues.

 DON'T BE DETAILED 

So I think this is fully possible but I do lack a tendency in this discussion to be too detailed and let's not discuss things that are not necessary and making anything more clear. For instance this Caritas longer formulation. Good heaven it is the same thing, if you are too much of this detailed discussion will never get anywhere

And it's also in the terms of the formulated letter. It is very very much about ourselves. It Is not about the reality of the movement's. it's about the internal relationship in the social Forum structure, and not about how is it so that we can welcome larger movements.

LINK LOCAL TO GLOBAL IS IN THE HAND OF BIG MOVEMENTS 

And I'm more and more convinced that the capacity of linking local National Regional issues is really much in the hands of those who are in the leadership of bigger international mass movements, who are necessarily dealing with this on a daily basis, which we always discussed as some kind of abstract phenomena, and it's actually that which iis the struggle. if the space of the forum can contribute somehow here, it has to address the needs of these movements and not primarily focus on the internal formalities.

WHY METHODOLOGY 

The whole thing that this is discussed and should be formulated by a Methodology group is depoliticize the whole thing. This is a joke actually, why It should be methodology, as a non political process, that decides what is going on. But now that is the case, we have to live with it, and I simply understand now what is really missing, also said in the beginning of the meeting, the normal list of minority women Etc the class struggle is constantly missing, and especially the rural class struggle, Via Campesina. 

Climate issues are put there instead of environmental issues. Climat issues is a typical opportunistic left wing thing to address instead of the environmental issues which include the climate issue and much more focused on the rule things instead of the focus which have been done by the left the focus on emissions rather than changing the power structure of land shoe in the all issues of economies Biodiversity answer. 

but that's a detail that's who that we move forward, and in the movement is quite clear now, that their wings emerging going on between environmental piece movements and what reiner braun executive director ofIPB said in our Swedish meeting was the focus now for everyone ought to be the economy crisis, that will kick very hard in all of the world, thanks to the way the coronavirus crisis, and now the war, and all the sanction politics of the West have turn the world into a hell. 

So in other words, peace movements and environmental mouvements have to get out of their silos and that is the same for all of us and, that has to be a clear message that we're trying to unite the movement rather than addressing our internal formalistic problems. thank you very much.

ADVANCING IN SITUATION ANALYSIS IS THE MAIN OBJECTIVE

I simply want to say that the main objective is to advance in an analysis of the situation and not spend time doing this when we will have a two-day seminar in Tunis. That is the main element, the connection to the Forum is an input because these chosen people are asked questions, they answer is an input among others, it is not something fundamental but it is useful but if we make a super long list these people are not the representative of your region, you have to be careful not to charge your exponents with too much stuff. they are asked more for a contribution to the analysis of the situation and not so much to be spokespersons for their region.

@12A From Pierre 10:07 PM

Sheila I am not disagreeing with the principle of question 4, I disagree with its formulation and I propose “Can active participation in the WSF contribute to these struggles?

@12B From Sheila 10:08 PM

your question changes to essence, Pierre

@13 Sheila 48 mn Pierre's purpose here is to bring up again his disagreement with the methodology group. in the group it was decided that the fourth question was “can the World Social Forum contribute to the struggles” why? because the reason for listening is not only to have an expanded vision of the global situation, it is to gather elements that allow us to think about the future of the forum, that the meaning of the meeting in tunisia is to think about the future of the World Social Forum.

So it is very important that we have these questions, the fourth question “can the World Social Forum contribute to this fight, or the other two that came up today?” “what is the region's proposal for global incidence” and “which ones? proposal of your region that should be supported by the other regions” something in this sense is essential to determine in this hearing, because it is not just a question of substituting an analysis of the situation that would be done in Tunisia.

ELEMENTS FOR THE FUTURE OFFORUM ARE THE CENTRAL LISTENING POINT

It is to gather elements that allow the international council to reflect in Tunis on the role of the World Social Forum in the world, that is, the central point of this hearing, and this was the consensus of the methodology group, with only one person who disagrees , which was you Pierre, I'm sorry, but I can't bring this up again, I think there is already a consensus in the IC that it is being heard. It will fuel the discussions on the future of the forum in Tunis, so it is essential. that we have civil society and think about the contributions of the forum that the international council can make.

A POLITICAL LEAP AND A CALL FOR AUTONOMY

@14 Rosa 50 mn Well, I would like to talk about several things, according to what Sheila says, and it seems to me that, as an international council with this challenge that we are considering, to do your dialogues to do the seminar in person, it is a leap in quality of our reflection, it is a political leap, because of course it has many things in the background, and that it appeals to autonomy as well.

I think that on the one hand it is important that the continents, the members of the IC who are from the different continents meet. Let them decide how they are going to do it, if they want a WhatsApp group or a Telegram group, a mailing list, whatever is most suitable...

 I do not agree with what Pierre points out, that it is open to whoever wants to go so that he is in all the groups, we have to avoid that (Pierre, sorry, I did not say that) Well, I am speaking Pierre. 

TRANSFORMATION OF DIALOGUES 

The other question of the methodology group and together with us, in these dialogues, I think we want that in this process, we make a critical reading of reality, from the social movements and the future of the forum. In other words, these global dialogues and the seminar that we are going to hold, to think of ourselves as a world social forum, as part of this forum that we, who are part of the movements and organizations, make it alive, and for that we want to hold the dialogue, and we have been transformed with at first we want to meet in tunisia for 4 days, after that we do it every 15 days, with some specific topics, but our last decision was “We need to know what happens in the continents, not to stay only what is happening, as has already been said here with the questions.

QUESTION 4 AND REFUNDING OF THE FORUM 

It seems to me that this fourth question is key, that is, how the forum can contribute to the struggles, I think it is important, it is part of the essence, we have to return to the origin, I feel that we are in a step of refounding the forum, such was like before 2001 maybe they can tell us who was in that process, because you imply this reading that is happening, that it is not connecting, that we have to do to reconnect, that question that Leo asked that seems very good to me, that now It's not clear to me here that what sheila says can come together like what Damián says, and ask a powerful question.

There can't be many questions because we don't have all the time either, we only have two and a half hours.

GENERAL INFO ON EXPONENTS

And the other thing, Pierre, and it seems good to me that we know when the process is, that they tell us who is going to participate, a little bit their generals, but not so that we say yes or no (Pierre: I have not said this) each continent he's going to decide who they are, just to find out, he just mentioned it to clarify.

LET US GET TO WORK 

So it seems to me that we are making progress in this reflection on how to carry out this dialogue process, that perhaps we have a short time, and it is our challenge to make this work, to relaunch it, to inspire us, but also to revolutionize, to be able to change, If we are not going to continue doing the same, this, well, this dialogue we are wanting to build to transform ourselves, well, it will not be worth it. Thank you.

Sheila: I'll pass the word to Tiburcio to Ole, who hasn't spoken yet.

@15 Tiburcio 55mn thank you good afternoon everyone. I consider that the contribution of the methodology team is good, it is making the process advance in a very concrete way. I believe that the work in general contributes to moving forward, why not keep repeating it, define the form and focus of the participation of those who we would be inviting, and prepare ourselves to make decisions on changes in relation to the World Social Forum process.

A QUESTION: WSF EXCLUSIVELY AN ARTICULATION SPACE OR ALSO WSF A GLOBAL POLITICAL SUBJECT 

Regarding Pierre's interventions, I would like to say the following: that perhaps we should even channel a more general question to Tunisia, which refers to his concern all the time, which is the following: "what these organizations and movements of civil society international, global networks, which we are going to try to bring to Tunisia, think about the role of the forum as a space exclusively, as a space for articulation exclusively, or as a global political subject, which intervenes in the world situation, helping to transform the world.

It is a question and I think it should be asked, because Pierre and some other colleagues interpret that the Forum must be absolutely limited to a space for articulation, and there are those who argue that, in order for it to play a politically relevant role in the world, it needs to be a space of articulation, maintain this, and also fulfill the role of Global political subject, in the most democratic way possible in the world, and the forum is capable of innovating in that sense. Thank you very much.

Thank you Sheila Tibúrcio Ole and then Carminda

QUESTION 4 NEEDS REFORMULATION

@16 Ole 57mn Hello everyone. I will speak in English. First I would like to say that I agree with Pierre on this question 4 t “How can the world social Forum contribute”. I also take it as a confusing way to ask the question, because it is supposing that the world social Forum as an actor that is contributing, so I would suggest that this question is rephrased into something like “how can the world social Forum be helpful and of relevance to the struggles”, but something that's not say that the world social forum is like a contributing or taking some action, but “how can it be helpful and relevant”. 

DIALOGUES OPEN TO ALL AS LISTENERS 

The other thing I wanted you to say I think that I may have misunderstood, but Sheila when you spoke of it before, and you were talking about whether the Continental discussions should be open for everyone, or only for the people of the continent, and then you said something, and I may have misunderstood, but you say something like “if they are open for everyone, it would be harder to reach a consensus in the meeting”, but for me I understand this continental meetings, not as a place to reach and to take any decision, but to as a place to listen to the movements and the activists, and those invited to speak, so we can listen to them, and learn from their experiences, and how they view about the political situation and also their views about the world social forum,

ONLY THOSE FROM THE CONTINENT CAN SPEAK 

So i may have misunderstood because I did not think these could be places where we would aim at reaching consensus decision, so I would like some clarifying on the understanding of these meetings, and of course if they are not, and I think they should be open for for everyone, but as observers, so one could phrase and say that those who are belongs to the continents, and of course we should listen to the movements and not so much talking ourselves that could be open for everyone as observers, but I think the only those from the contingent have sort of the right to give comments and questions in that meeting but the other can be observers.thanks.

@16A De Ole 10:22 PM

If I understood it correctly the discussion is that only those from the continent should participate in the preparation for the continental meetings, that int heir turn are open for all. If this is correctly understood I do agree.

Proposal for question 4. How can the WSF be useful and relevant for those struggles

@16A From Ole 22:22

If I understood the discussion correctly, it is that only those from the continent should participate in the preparation of the continental meetings, which in turn are open to everyone. If this is understood correctly, I agree.

Proposal for question 4. How can the WSF be useful and relevant to these struggles?

@16B From Rosy 10:24 PM

Ole, your proposal is the one I originally proposed in the Methodology Commission.

@16C De tord 10:28 PM

I cannot see it possible to explain for outsiders the difference between contributing to struggles or useful and relevant. This discussion is to me an example of how WSF makes itself into a byzantine bureaucratic organization unable to address neither people in common or movements.

@16D De Ole 10:30 PM

Tord, it is not necessary to involve outsiders to that discussion, and I do agree that it would be futile to try to involve outsiders into that discussion. It is still important to be precise in how we communicate to the movements and others.

@16E From Rosy 10:35 PM

How can we be more efficient Tord?

Questions:

1. What is your reading of the context in your region? 2. What are the problems they are facing? 3. What are you doing to deal with them?

4. Can the WSF contribute to these struggles? How can the WSF be useful and relevant for those who struggle ? 5. What are the priority political proposals for your region that should be supported by the other regions and for global advocacy?

WHO IS IN THE CONTINENT GROUPS - OPENING OF THE DIALOGUES

@17 Sheila Clarifying Just to clarify Without a doubt the dialogues have to be open to the world I have no doubt what surprised me was Pierre's suggestion that in the organizing groups of each continent there should be participants in the International Council. Pierre is shaking his head, so maybe I was wrong. So each group has in each participant continent organizing dialogues, but the dialogues without a doubt have a duty to be open to the world because they are inputs that we will have elements to make decisions in Tunisia I don't know if I have managed to clarify now ole, how about that?

@ Ole Somehow yes thanks

@18 carminda 1h02m Good afternoon everyone. I find this process that is moving right now very interesting; so thank you for the effort you are making. I also find it very interesting that the groups, the continents, the people from the continents can decide who is going to be present.

BE CAREFUL IN WHOM WE INVITE INTO THESE DIALOGUES

At the same time it seems really important to me, I see it from my point of view here in Canada. Here in Canada there is a disarticulation between different groups of mobilization of struggles, for example the indigenous populations that are disjointed with the other struggles, and sometimes these indigenous populations also have perhaps more direct contacts with people from other countries. So it would seem a little sad to me let's say that I don't know them, if I'm in the group, which is not the case, from Canada I say "I don't know who they are, that's why they don't fit in" it seems a little sad to me that they stay out, because it would allow; from my point of view here in Canada; expand, then let us be careful with the decisions we make about who is going to participate, although with all confidence that the decisions are going to be made well,

REFORMULATING QUESTION 4 "CAN THE FORUM CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR STRUGGLES?"

The other thing regarding the question that is being debated that Pierre Ole and other people mentioned, it also seems to me a bit like what olé says, that the question could be put, in the end the substance would be the same, it could be said "How the forum can be useful to the struggles of the movements" would perhaps be a way to get out of the controversy within the IC, the one we have right now, 

REMAIN OPEN TO THE INVISIBILIZED

What seems really fundamental to me is that we continue to respect the self-determination of peoples, which is something for which indigenous people and groups, many groups, have fought a great deal in recent history, and I believe that this has to be something that we really respect within the forum. We don't know all the struggles, and all the struggles are not present in the dialogues either. How can we do to remain open to what is made invisible by other sides and that because of this invisibility we are not seeing them. As we remain open as a forum to be able to receive these points of view that we are not seeing. For me, it would be one of the fundamental parts that we would have to continue taking care of, within the process, and not arrive with a perspective from above, so that we continue taking care of this point. . Thank you.

CONTINENT GROUPS INCLUSIVE TO THOSE FROM THE CONTINENT

@19: 1h05m Pierre Clarificar I think maybe it's a translation problem but I expressed myself and never said that the groups of continents should be inclusive of all IC members. They must be inclusive of the IC members of this continent, that is to say that if there is a person who takes the initiative to create a mailing list, a WhatsApp group, whatever, each person on the continent has the right to request inclusion and be attended, so that it is present in this group, where the preparation and decisions will be made, I say this and I think it is very clear.

WHEN DO WE REFLECT ON THEMATIC DIALOGUES 

Nor have I said that the second CI meeting - I maintain the proposal to hold another CI meeting next week, to help the continent groups start talking through the groups that were imagined today - but the second meeting is also to talk of the thematic dialogues, which have not been the subject of any proposal so far, because they are cross-continental; Then the scheme of the continent groups does not work. The methodology group has not made any discussion and proposals on this. 

I have not said that in this second meeting at the end of September the decisions of the continent groups would be approved, the groups just show where they are, and there is no authorization from the IC.

QUESTION 4 FORMULATION WITH A NARRATIVE OF “ACTOR FORUM” OR “SPACE FOR PARTICIPATION FORUM” 

Regarding question 4, you see that this question brings a lot of tension, and you have to look for a formulation that is not insidious in the sense that "that the forum can contribute" because that is the narrative of an actor forum, until I know the forum is a space, there are tensions and discrepancies about itself, in addition to being a space, it must be an actor, etc. but you have to look for a formulation that in the vocabulary and is not tendentious or does not summon an imaginary, especially for people who do not they are aware of the discussions, an imaginary forum actor, So what Ole proposes can be a path, we must find a formulation that is equitable, and that remembers that the forum is a space, basically there is tiburcio agrees there is also that there is to look for a formulation. If we have a meeting next week,

DURING THE DIALOGUES CONTROL THE ACCESS TO SPEAKING AND LEAVE THE WRITTEN CHAT FREE 

On the matter of listening. Yes, well, the idea is that there is listening and there may be rules It seems to me that with the zoom there is an issue that is possible, and that we see it now that the verbal interaction is clearly moderated by the continent group, and that also the continent group is in charge of moderating the chat, making it open to interactions between those who listen to the speakers' dialogues, so that two things are taken out of the session:

What the speakers said, who are not representatives of their region, they are invited by the Continente Group, and what was said in the chat, which can be very interesting, with a lot of information, from many actors. I think that it is a second product and that this chat has to be more open, that there can be interactions, and that it be careful and recorded, and that in addition to the video recording, there is a copy of the chat. I believe that these would be 2 basic products that can later be used by anyone who wants to prepare proposals for the discussion of Tunisia.

WHAT WILL THE LOGISTICS BE LIKE? INTERPRETERS ZOOM RECORDINGS VIDEOS 

And finally, I wonder about the logistics. I understand that the continent groups are responsible, but how about the interpretation? That is to say that the group of interpreters that is giving us this incredible support in this meeting would also be available for these dialogues and that the zoom I imagine that in all the continents there will be organizations that have a zoom, but the knowledge to make the video recording etc. is knowledge that must be managed and interpretation is perhaps a common good that can be put at the service of each dialogue. That should be clarified.

@19A De tord 10:38 PM

If we have two formulations saying the same for most people the normal advice is to take the shortest version. The claim to find perfect clarity is a sickness in the wsf process taking time from efficient work and one of the reasons why the environmental movement focuses on their own process including direct cooperation with other movements such as peace, trade unions, farmers, refugees, anti neoliberalism etc. The lack of understanding the need for efficiency and the belief in perfect clarity is an obstacle that precisely right now take unnecessary time from doing more important issues, furthermore cooperation with outsiders demands full transparency of the internal problems of the SF process, including analysis why bureaucratic discussion makes WSF inefficient with the discussion about question 4 as a typical example.

Goodbye, all the best to everyone

 

A LOGISTICAL TASK FOR A COLLEGIATE SECRETARY 

@20 sheila Thank you Pierre; just one comment: all this work to make possible the translation and the recording and everything else, it is a problem that as soon as possible the executive secretariat, the collegiate secretariat, excuse me. This is an important task of the collegiate secretariat, to enable these dialogues of all the organizations in all the meetings at the different moments of the forum process. So this is important.

Rose then Hamuda and just to say that we already have Hamouda and Alaa who have already entered here. We have inverted the agenda, initially it was to have a dialogue about logistics and how to make the Tunis meeting possible, the second moment was about the methodology. As we did not have a group from the Maghreb here, the agenda was reversed, but we have to return to this issue. pink is with you

. 

SUPPORTING OLE'S PROPOSAL ON FORMULATION OF QUESTION 4 IN WHAT THE FORUM CAN BE USEFUL FOR YOUR STRUGGLES?

 @21 Rosa 1h12 Thank you Sheila Well, I am very pleased with the proposal that Ole makes as a question, because that was the first question that we raised, which we later moved because there was no agreement, there was no consensus. It seems to me that I was going to say that in general we agree with the questions on the first “what is the reading of the context of your region What are the problems that you are facing, the third “that is. doing to deal with it” the fourth could be with this proposal made by ole “How can the world social forum be useful and relevant to their struggles”. I would say for their struggles, for those who struggle, including them, and the fifth that they are doing like this mix What Damien said and what Leo proposes, of “what are the priority political proposals for his region, that should be supported by the other regions and for global advocacy”. I think we could go there.

TEAM OF INTERPRETERS AVAILABLE WITH ORGANIZERS COMING BY CONTINENT

The other thing that I would propose in terms of logistical organization is that we have a team, we have a team of volunteer interpreters for several years now, since 2018 that we started in this process, and they are willing to collaborate with this Tunisian process They are very prepared and they want to know the dates to organize us, and see who is available and seek support. 

So I think that this can be supported. I would like it not to be just me organizing the interpreters, but from the continents to tell me who is going to organize this part, so that I can be part of that group of interpreters, this chat of interpreters, to that we work and coordinate and not burden one person.

A TEAM FOR THE TRANSMISSIONS AND RECORDINGS OF THE DIALOGUES 

And on the other hand, the CEAAL platform has the zoom platform available, and more than that it tells us "we provide the platform" it is fine if someone tells us we want to take care of the transmission, I think we have to enable part of a communication team If we want to do the transmission in the different languages ​​in which there is going to be interpretation, that will imply having a support team and logistics as well, and I think things are happening. 

USE THE MAGHREB PROPOSAL ON CROSS-CUTTING ISSUES

Regarding what Pierre says about organizing thematically, if you remember them at the last meeting of the IC, we said “we are organizing the dialogues as a process, that is, we have to feel how the dialogues are going, without this telling us that we are going to arrive one day a week before the thematic dialogues and define what follows. The Tunisian comrades have already raised a number of issues that they want us to address more deeply in Tunisia and they can be the basis for organizing these thematic dialogues.

You have to be realistic and think about how you are going to organize the thematic dialogues that we have thematically, so that we have significant and quality contributions from colleagues who can contribute in this regard.

DEBATE TO BE DONE ON WHAT MEANS A STRATEGIC COLLEGIATE SECRETARY DIFFERENT FROM TECHNICAL SECRETARY 

So and one last thing that I think this would require a debate in another meeting, but it seems to me that we have to move forward as an international council to clarify what a collegiate secretariat means, that I think it is necessary to have a global vision, a representation of the different continents in a strategic direction, and the other is to have a technical secretariat, and I think we have to think about who is going to support this technical part, that we should not have ourselves, because this is an obviously technical task. 

So it's a whole debate that we have to do. Not now because he doesn't give us the time and it's not on the agenda. But I think we should take it into account later Thank you Sorry for the extension.

WE WADE IN THIS IC MEETING WE DO NOT PROGRESS

@22 1h16mn Hamouda Thank you Sheila Thank you all, sorry for the delay. I thought it was going to happen, that it was going to happen, that all of you understood each other, that it's ok, maybe changes in some things, but I find that at every meeting of the International Council, we wobble, as they say, I don't know how to say it in French to translate it, but I don't understand why we always get stuck on a little thing, a little piece of writing, a little business like that.

We proposed “perhaps the WSF can contribute to these struggles”, because to these organizations that are going to be there on the continents, we ask them 'can the WSF contribute, can the WSF create a space for their struggles', it is as simple as that.

WE WANT SIMPLE THINGS

 Why want? I know Pierre, you're doing a super good job, I say it, I say it again, but you know the board you send with many A's and B's, C's, red and blue and all that, I can't follow it, it's a job for IT , a computing platform, things like that, but I think it has to be simple, it has to be simple, it has to be so that we can understand what you mean.

A SPACE TO CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR STRUGGLES

I don't understand why you're stuck on the question is that the WSF contributes, "can this space contribute to their struggles" it's as simple as that it's not something we expect, maybe people don't even talk about this topic or will talk about it From the beginning. So I think it's important to calm things down, so that we can move on, because later if we go to another meeting to be able to move forward, if we want to do another business, we don't move forward for nothing, we don't move forward,

WHAT THE MOVEMENTS THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE WSF

Our goal, as we said from the beginning, is the Future of the WSF. Everything we are doing is about the future of the WSF. So all our reflection, whether in the thematic groups, or by continent, we are in a future of the WSF. We want what we think, what the movements think about it. That is what we need to do an evaluation after 21 years of existence, and how we are going to be able to continue working together, that is the main objective of everything that we are doing. Because we can have a meeting in Tunisia and have a seminar and we will talk, we will go and what will it be used for. If we still don't agree on our questions, we don't agree on how we're all going to be able to move forward and change things and move forward. Every time we get stuck on the thing.

WHAT ABOUT THE CONSENSUS?

The other thing that we couldn't program in the topics and all that is our seminar that we wanted to do by consensus, we didn't put it in that. Should it be integrated into the questions “how do you manage to work together in the region?” I don't know, I put it like this, I'm thinking about this together.

EXPANDED METHODOLOGY GROUP WILL SUPPORT CONTINENT GROUPS

I believe that if we solve the problem across the continents, I hoped that each party, each member of the council that is involved in Africa, or in Asia, or in other places can meet and decide on the people who are going to intervene, with the questions that we are going to do, and that the methodology commission that is there, with the technical support of people who can lend a hand, continue organizing the debates, and we continue.

Why create another technical secretariat and stuff? I think the methodology committee is capable, if there are other people who want to join in to help, they are welcome, I know Carminda is good at it. there are people who can fit in there, to be able to move this issue forward, and Pierre and all those people,

So we can organize this seminar with the people we already are, and organize the dates, the discussions. We let the continents organize themselves, but we are with them, we do not leave them alone, they organize themselves and then we tell them “what is the report”. No, the whole world needs to hear what is happening in Asia, what is happening in Africa and the Arab world, in Europe, in Latin America. That is our goal.

So we are all together, we are thinking together, analyzing together, we should not be divided, we are already divided, I think we already have a perspective of moving forward, there is a good proposal that is correct, we blocked a case that is there, that is in the FSM, block.

 There were proposals with which everyone, perhaps, agreed. I was not there Damián and Leo who made proposals. But it is important that we can do that and move forward, otherwise we will drag, drag.

THE NEXT IC TO DECIDE ON THEMATIC DIALOGUES

And next time, as Pierre says, we need another council meeting, but on the issues, how are we going to organize the issues? Because that is where Tord speaks that the others speak is that they are all those who are going to participate. There the work is even more difficult, because you need someone from Africa, Asia, Europe.

To talk about the climate, not only Europeans know about the climate, there are other organizations. Massa l is doing a caravan on climate issues as we meet here, so there's a lot going on. Sorry for being late and thank you very much.

A SUGGESTION OF 5 GUIDING QUESTIONS FOR THE DIALOGUES

23 Sheila 1:22 am Thank you Hamuda, I think from this perspective that you speak, Hamuda, Rosa made a suggestion in the chat of five questions.

So we're already making an alteration and what was initially read and maybe we can agree with Rose's suggestion.

The questions would be as follows: first, what is the reading of the context of your region, the second qualis are the problems, the problems that are being faced 3 What is being done to fight for the resolution of these problems 4 question: can the Forum Social contribute to these struggles? How can the WSF be useful and relevant for those who struggle? They would be the fourth question and the fifth. What are the priority policy proposals for your region that should be supported by the other regions for global advocacy. of that, but I think that in some way they contemplated the contributions that were made during the meeting.

Pierre, I'm going to ask, we have to go to the first topic of the meeting, which is the logistics of Tunisia. And Rose will coordinate this part, anyway, Hamuda would also have to talk about the Maghreb region that is here. Pierre and then, if possible, we will change it to go back to the original agenda that Pierre was thinking about with you.

DOUBLE QUESTION 4 BY ROSA CAN ACCOMMODATE THE TWO IMAGINARIES : ACTOR FORUM AND ACTIVE PARTICIPATIONS IN THE FORUM

CAN THE WSF CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR STRUGGLES? HOW ACTIVE PARTICIPATIONS IN THE WSF CAN CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR STRUGGLES? 

@24 Pierre 1h24mn Rio I look at Rosa's proposal that extends the question and for me this could be a path. Because as she puts it, the two questions are practically asked the two half questions are practically asked in the same way. So if the first question remains; the first formulation "can the WSF contribute to these struggles", the second should go in the other direction, that is to say "how the participations in the WSF can be useful and relevant for those who struggle". This would be, I think, a way of being inclusive, and that the two visions are represented. That is a proposal, I think reasonable, and not if the long question to this proposal, we are not lengthening anything. In this sense, here I propose the formulation that could be the object of consensus. Because here the two formulations are recognized,

@24A From Pierre 05:40 PM

4. Can the WSF contribute to these struggles? How participations in the WSF can be useful and relevant for those struggling @24B From Mike10:42 PM

👍🏼

@24C From Damien 10:43 PM

I do not agree with the 2nd sentence formulated by Pierre, which is also biased. @24D From Mike 10:46 PM

"How" is more open than "can"

avoid yes/no answers

AND THE FIFTH QUESTION?

@24E sheila You are proposing to change the wording of the fourth question and the fifth question would continue: What are the priority proposals in your region that should be supported by other regions for global advocacy? The fifth is still only the fourth changes.

@24F Pierre Yes because the fifth well… It is a political speech, which is not directly connected to the forum, and the way this is received in the forum has to be seen how it would be done, there is no problem.

GOING BACK TO THE INITIAL FORMULATION PROPOSED BY THE METHODOLOGY GROUP, CAN THE WSF CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR STRUGGLES?

@25 Shiela I don't think we can lose focus. Our approach is to gather elements to think about the future of the forum. Knowing how the participants can, the participation of the people in the forum can be useful for those who struggle, how will the future of the Forum change for us? anything ! What we want to know is how the forum can contribute, so I propose removing the second item, and leaving only what was proposed by the methodology group “Can the World WSF contribute to these struggles”. Spot.

@25B Peter Nope! I disagree, sorry, here we go exactly to the point where there is no agreement. I don't see what the problem is with adding this, because here are the words of participation in the forum, which summons another imaginary, invites people to decide how they think these participations can contribute to their struggles.

THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BE INVITED IN THE DIALOGUES ARE NOT PARTICIPANTS IN THE WSF

@25C We will have participants, Pierre. This is for guests to respond. Many guests have never been to an edition of the forum. Indigenous people in the Amazon, for example, who are facing a complicated struggle, which interferes with the whole world, are being killed, they have never been in an edition of the forum. So I think we need to have questions here that can be answered by all the invited participants.

IT IS PARADOXICAL TO PRIVILEGE THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW THE FORUM TO THINK ABOUT ITS FUTURE

@26 Pierre 1h28 I am saying that it is a bit paradoxical that you say that people who have no experience of the forum will be invited. All good, I have no problem with that, but in that they are more qualified to answer the question "what can the forum do" if they don't know it, than to see the other formulation that also, later they say "sorry I don't know but I imagine this", no problem. But I don't see why the first question would be easier than the second for someone who doesn't know the forum. 

I simply propose that the continent groups say “we have chosen such an exponent who has no experience of the forum”. Let it be known and people speak what they want. No problem. But the fact of not knowing the forum does not qualify people to talk about the future of the forum any more than those who know the forum. There is something paradoxical here.

@26B Sheila Okay, Pierre, we disagree. Damien is saying that you also pick up the I don't agree with the second sentence made by Pierre, which is also biased. Liege Pierre complicates more than he seeks to build the unit, but anyway… ..Rosa is with you.

RE-SUPPORTING FORMULATION OF OLE - DO NOT REDUCE THE REFLECTION WITH USING THE WORD "PARTICIPATIONS" - BROADER PARTICIPATIONS

@27 Rosa 1h30 Yes, it seems to me that the proposed question is more general and broader, what does Olé propose, and what do I think the social forum implies? we are not going to diminish the broader reflection, to say “participations”, it must be WSF; What is the World Social Forum? it implies assemblies, it implies convergences, it implies broader participation, and we have the task, I would say tacitly, we know that we need who we are going to invite, we need to talk, with whom we are going to invite and who you do not know who the WSF is. 

THE GUESTS IN THE DIALOGUES KNOW THE DEBATE AT THE IC

I don't think that those of us who are inviting don't know what the forum is and what the debate is. I believe that there is a consensus, that this question remains, so this question remains, they should be the questions that we must put in all the dialogues, so that there is an accumulation that allows us to make a synthesis. So I think that with that we can close this point, and we can continue with the next one.

WHAT IS ROSA'S PROPOSAL 

Pierre : I didn't quite understand Rosa's proposal and I'd give her the word apology I didn't quite understand Rosa's proposal apology.

BE GENEROUS

@28 Sheila Pierre you are the only one who disagrees, we have a lot of participants, several proposals were given here, but this proposal to ask "how to participate in the forum to be useful" does not agree, Pierre, you are being the only one to defend this position. Be supportive, be generous, we can demarcate "ok, Caritas does not agree", but we, we are a large majority of those who agree with the proposal that was initially made, Pierre,

DO NOT ASK QUESTIONS THAT LEAD US TO STAY AS WE ARE

I sincerely ask you to be generous, and leave this question of putting "participation in the forum", that people know the relevance of the World Social Forum, but many groups that have been excluded, that have not been able to participate in the meetings, do not know we are going to see how to answer this, that we need to know, in addition to participation in the Forums, what and what the forum can do, because this is going to give us inputs, elements to think about the future of the forum, different from what it is today , so we can't ask questions that lead us to stay as we are (Rosa "same") we need to identify how we change I'm sorry, you just disagree Pierre.

@29 Rosa Pierre let's move on to the next one. point because we don't have time with the interpreters. I'm going to ask Alaa and Hamouda, I don't know what they are going to talk to me about, to share with us what they are waiting for in Tunisia.

@29B Pierre : the point is pending

DECLARING CONSENSUS

@29C Rosa there is consensus, there is no unanimity, but there is agreement 

 @29DPierre I don't see why, for example, they don't say “how can the FSM space be useful, add this word.

@29And sheila, how can the Forum change the meaning? Pierre, and the Ford social world, we can hear that the World Social Forum must stop being just a space, and this opening that we are trying to hear. Maybe nobody says that, they don't want to close the question thinking about the space, the edition of the Forum, not about the participation! So Pierre, please be generous.

 

EVERYONE KNOWS THE FORUM

@30 1h30mn Hamouda I am going to give the floor to Alaa, he is the one who is going to talk more about this part that is going to give the leftovers but just say one thing about this question, to end this debate.

 I think that the question, but that we put it, is a question that can be discussed or not discussed, it can be put or not, but our objective is the World Social Forum, everyone knows it, it has become a symbol, there is that we are there, in 20 years people will continue talking, maybe we are no longer there, but people will continue talking about the WSF. everyone knows the movements, everyone knows the WSF. There may be some who have not participated, but most of them know the forum they know what is happening in the forum.

REACHING CONSENSUS WITH OUR WORK

 I think it is important that we stop this debate there, and we will all reach a consensus with our work, the main thing is that our seminars are a success. The main thing is to recover the trust of the people, so that they continue to participate with us, and that is how we will move forward. Alas, you have the floor.

@31Alaa 1h35 I will first try to answer some questions about why this meeting, and why also the World Social Forum, with all its components, will be useful for us in the region, in this rather difficult political context.

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.8t 

WE HELD A MEETING IN TUNISIA

I think that we, as FTDES FMAS, and also as members of the IC of the IC secretariat, held a meeting to talk about what is happening regarding the situation in the Maghreb Machrek, but especially in the Maghreb, in a context where the The situation is serious, in the sense that there is an economic and political crisis in Tunisia, there are authoritarian excesses, but also on a political level,

AN ALTERGLOBALIST MEETING IN TUNISIA WITHOUT THE FTDES - POWER LOOKS FOR ALLIES IN OUR FIELD

And I don't hide it from you, this week there was an international anti-globalization meeting, and for the first time that pro-power civil society, which participates and organizes itself with all the logistical and political support of the government, poses the problem since I believe that, on the side of the Maghreb-Mashreq Social Forum, the follow-up committee of the Maghreb-Mashreq Social Forum, since 2006, we have never had a meeting, in the Maghreb country, without the participation of the FMAS or the FTDES.

I think it is serious, because, even this power that is in Tunisia, is also looking for allies in the anti-globalization movement, in the movement of social movements, in associative movements that are similar to us, it is not looking for actors in the offices, he searches, he is playing in our field.

SERIOUS SITUATION IN THE MAGHREB

The situation also in Algeria and a very serious situation too, due to the massive repression of the trade unions of the social movements of the associations, the arbitrary arrests are almost the daily life of our Algerian militant friends.

 In Morocco there is also a certain restriction of civic space, and of the work space of civil society and social movements in Morocco. Let's not talk about Libya, which runs the risk of a new civil war.

WE NEED A MASSIVE PRESENCE

I think that as a local committee like in 2013 in 2015 in the region where we held the World Social Forum with a view to strengthening these recent young democracies, I think that today we need this massive presence, and this involvement of the Social Forum, but I also think that we are giving an opportunity for the World Social Forum, to relaunch it again, in a sense in which this democratic experience, this experience of participation by social movements, of participation by civil society, of trade union participation has failed in Tunisia and in the region we have achieved a solid democracy.

WE WASTE TIME

That is why I think it is very interesting to be in Tunisia, but also to participate in person or online, to spend more time discussing the issues, to honestly avoid these conflicts and these divisions, because we, in terms of logistics, have, will be able to and will inform you about our logistical capacities as well, but honestly we are feeling that we are, as if we were wasting a lot of time, as if there was a blockage, even for this meeting in Tunisia, as if there was a blockage in thinking about the future of the forum and the future of the involvement of international solidarity with the peoples of the region who aspire only to peace, democracy and social justice, which are the reasons for the existence of the World Social Forum.

So it is true that I am making a call, it is not a call, it is a call for us to overcome the divisions a little, so that we can advance on the issues, so that we can advance together, on the opportunities, but also the risks that may be today Tunisia, Morocco or Algeria, but tomorrow the other African countries or the Latin American countries, or the other countries of the world.

MEETING NOV 30 DECEMBER 3 - 120 PARTICIPANTS - CI 50 - MAGHREB 30 - 20 GUESTS

In terms of logistics, we propose that the meeting be held on November 30, December 1, 2 and 3. We have taken into consideration the European Social Forum and the elections in Brazil, which is why we have chosen this date. .

We are going to bet on 120 participants or face-to-face participants but there will also be 2 zooms, there will also be online work, so for those who cannot participate. That is why I also welcome the commitment of our interpreters who will be able to help us.

There will be full lodging and catering on site by FTDES. for plane tickets we will take partial support; especially for the legs of the countries of the South; but we also want a balance between the continents, and we also want a presence for our activist friends in Africa.

MAGHREB OPENING SESSION OF THE SEMINAR

In the program of the seminar we will dedicate the opening session to the Maghreb, to the situation as well as to the problems and challenges in the region, the war in Libya, the conflict in the Sahara, the risks of war between Algeria and Morocco, what is happening today on the subject of the Zionist offensive, and the neocolonial one as well, the consequences of the war in Ukraine, relations with sub-Saharan Africa.

TOPICS

Second point: We are also going to talk about the political centrality of the social question, third point we are also going to talk about the social movements in the Maghreb, the revolution and that aspiration to democracy, to repression today, and what expectations in relation to the WSF world social forum.

We are going to propose names from the Maghreb to intervene in these axes, but that does not mean that there may also be another rapporteur from the IC who could be proposed by the IC on this issue.

PROPOSAL OF 5 THEMES FOR THE THEMATIC DIALOGUES

There will also be thematic and regional meetings on justice. It is proposed that there will be 5 topics on social justice, on economic and social rights, on the fight for democracy and freedom of expression, the struggle of women for equality, the migration issue and climate change.

INVOLVE THE MOVEMENTS

We are going to try to work on lists to offer them, but we also believe that it is very important to give the floor to the social movements involved in these struggles, there will not only be experts, there will not only be representatives of civil society, it is necessary to involve representatives of the movements social.

OUR POSITION ON THE CONSENSUS

I also think it's also very important to work on consensus, and maybe we'll try to write a note that specifies our position on that as well, and we see that we'll send it.

LISTS OF THOSE WHO WILL COME TO TUNISIA IN PERSON OR ONLINE

I also think that we have to establish the list soon for those who will be in person and those who will be online, so that we can do the possible logistics in relation to the visa and the plane ticket, and also and that, for visas, we must wait the risk of restrictions, not like in 2013 or 2015, but we will try to solve this problem.

We also need an online roster for interpreter logistics and also for all the technical stuff.

So honestly, today is September 10, for an event on November 30, we have to accelerate, in the methodology, we have to accelerate in the lists, we also have to accelerate in having a consensus, and put aside our conflicts. , and trying to have to look to the future and work together, I think that's very important today.

I believe that the social movements, the actors on the ground have hope in our activities, they also have hope that we are at their side, it is an opportunity that cannot be lost, the truth, above all we run the risk in the region of losing all the acquired that we have had in the last decade thank you.

@ thanks Alaa you have any questions you are welcome 1h 44m

WHEN WILL WE KNOW THE FINAL SUPPORT LEVEL FOR TICKETS?

@32 Sheila a question: Alaa says that landscapes will be partial support. From Brazil to Tunisia they are very expensive. I would like to know how long it will take for us to have this information, how much support we will be able to have. Because this is decisive for many cases, the trip will depend on how much support you have for the ticket. How long before we will have this information. That is the question.

@33 Alaa, I'll reply actually. I don't have an answer, I can't make up my mind right now, because I don't have a list of participants. It depends if we have cheaper countries we can increase our partial participation for long trips like Brazil or Mexico or other countries.

I think we could be around 25 to 30% as a partial participation at the moment, while we are already waiting to have the list and look for more financing to cover these plane tickets.

@33B1h47mn Hamouda that's what I was going to add too, is that it also depends on the number of people because we said partial, because we would like the majority of the people and countries of the South to participate in the International Council, plus the international guests who we have.

KNOW WHO'S COMING

So we said partial without giving partiality 10 percent 20 percent 80 percent, we leave it that way, it is something like a contribution from the people who are going to come, but we are looking for it, and we have promises in relation to the box office, but as I said if we are starting our process, that we are doing seminars and all that and how it is taking shape, we already have in the International Council, we have sent a letter to say that those interested can come on that date, and those who cannot come on that date, so that we can arrange and know a final list.

And two that the budget we have,; we will share it with most of the people who will participate, whether they are our friends from Africa or Asia or Latin America, but the main thing is that there will be full support in accommodation and food, transportation in Tunisia,

30 PEOPLE FROM THE MAGHREB

And in international transport, it depends on the number of people we invite. We made an estimate when we were in Tunisia, with about a hundred people who will be present at this seminar in Tunis, with perhaps fifty from the International Council, twenty from the international guests and 30 people who are from the Maghreb and Machrek. region, and they are going to take charge themselves, apart from what the Tunisian committee is going to do, because we all told ourselves from the Maghreb committee that we are going to work together to be able to facilitate the displacement of people in Tunisia.

WHO DOESN'T NEED SUPPORT IN IC?

@34 Rosa Thank you, it seems good to me to raise this list and it is worth asking ourselves in this list to respond to the colleagues from Tunisia; and inform them and us as CI who can pay for their ticket; who can cover it 100%; to go discarding; No?. And the other is to ask "who needs support" for the passage, knowing that with the companions they will give a percentage, but it is also worth asking them at CI who they can support to cover that missing part, because obviously it seems to me that both Asia and America or South America and Africa will require support, I see it that way, thank you.

PARTIAL FIGURES OF TICKET SUPPORT ARE LOW

@35 Damien I don't have a camera, so I'm going to talk like this, not dark, but then I just wanted to see after this speech by Alaa thanks for the intervention I wanted to understand the date would be like this you have to say, from November 30 to November 3 december. the ticket from Brasilia is currently around $2000, I don't think Rita will increase from there to the end of November beginning of December, but from 10 to 15 say, but currently, even so, it is very high.

I do not understand Alaa and Hammouda when they talk about the 25-30% counterparty portfolio, paid by Tunisia, or by the Tunisian organization or by the organization that will participate in this case. I think the numbers you gave them Hamuda are quite useful. If he mentioned 100 people, I think we need to know, in terms of timeframes and discussions within each continent, how many continents, how many people per continent.

10 IC PEOPLE PER CONTINENT?

From what I understand it can be supported more or less, it seems to me, about 10 people on each continent, right? 10 people I wanted to have this confirmation and I think you should also indicate a deadline, you said that we need to move fast Alaa, for the definitions of terms, both the guests and guests outside the IC and those inside the IC, I think it is necessary to have a appointment, until when? until the end of the month until the end of October in order to decide who will be able to participate.

UNTIL WHEN TO INDICATE NAMES?

And then the question is to decide the group to make the nominations, I am only afraid that in the relationship there is not that support, that partial counterpart, I think that many movements with 30% are going to have difficulties here in Latin America to participate, But I think it depends on Rose's question, who is actually who can afford the ticket, who needs support, that's all. I would like some answers on how long we can indicate the names and how many people from each continent.

IAI CANNOT PARTICIPATE ON THESE DATES

@36 Cesare 1h52 Thanks for all that work and I'm going to speak in Spanish. The first doubt is the date, better said IAI inhabitants, we are involved in a great mobilization on the theme of "our future is public" with different networks. So exactly on this date we are already with a great commitment in an international conference in Santiago de Chile on November 29 and 30 until December 2. Then it will be impossible to participate. That's the first thing.

Let's see what the lack of participation means. It means that we are already in a fairly long process, with continental meetings, in this conference, there will be at least 300 different networks. we have several dozens of colleagues, because the issue is: How to implement not only a charter, which is already there, a manifesto, but a commitment from different actors so that public services are the future or are policies But well, we are not talking about content but of the impossibility is on this date. 

IAI INTERPRETERS SUPPORT

Second problem about resources, what we can do we have always done, with great pleasure and great availability, help coordinate, offer, are the female and male interpreters, that is, help and facilitate communication. 

However, we do not have at this time, or rather for at least 2 and a half years, any project, that is, totally without resources as a network, and also our organizations at the local level are without pay. So for this reason we ask what is the possibility, on the part of the organizers, to support participation, but taking into account that, if the date is confirmed, our participation will be impossible. I'm Sorry, but it's like that

REPRESSION IN THE MAGHREB

@37 leo I am going to speak in French, to go directly to the colleagues from Tunisia and first of all I am very impressed by what Alaa said, and this is an extremely important point, that civil society is in a very strong state of repression , almost all over the world, and that one of the very important things would be to fight against this repression that is taking place, and it is not only a question of the right and left, but that it is transversal, and that 'we must take the Middle East as a kind of vanguard in the fight against this repression. that's one thing

Another thing is a question about what Cesare said, if there is still the possibility of moving the meeting just a few days, either before or after, so that this important movement that he represents participates more.

3º I think it would be good if we said that we propose an average Damián to talk about 10 people per continent, I think that is the minimum, for it to be worth it. Have as much as possible, albeit provisional, the list to discuss together how we could manage this, from an economic point of view, because, for some, having 20% ​​support is going to be very little, and for others perhaps, especially those who don't have to travel a long distance, for example from Europe, it's not that expensive, tickets to Tunisia, to balance things out and really make sure that the majority of people who really want to participate have the opportunity to participate. Thanks.

MOVE THE DATE?

@38 Hamouda 1:59 thanks Leo. To respond to Cesare, it will be as difficult as it can be in space and maybe about 5 days, but there are elections in Tunisia, which will take place I think on December 24, and I don't know Alaa pute will confirm, but it could be sooner because they are talking about the electoral law, the new electoral law and all that, so I don't know when it will be.

Alaa will be on December 17 December 17 for the moment on May 17 we are already waiting for the debate on the electoral law but even the house remains for December 17.

So it's going to be a bit, but in any case we have to discuss it again in relation to the dates.

As for the support to clarify things, we said partial we didn't put the percentage, because we don't know how many people we did a random calculation like Damien to say ten from Latin America 1 of his around ten of that and we think that maybe the contribution that people can contribute 15% to 30% of their tickets, that can be a way to help participation.

IF MANY PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO COME

But if from the list that we have made there are not many people who can come on the dates that have been proposed, there will be money left over to take the percentage from 90% to 100%, the tickets, so no I don't know that it is not definitive, but the most important thing is to put a list now of the members of the International Council. The most important thing is a council meeting to see who is coming and who is not.

That's why we set the dates: we stopped being imprecise, that's why we moved further away, to be able to hold the thematic seminars. So that's why we came to this decision there, but there is a risk that we are going to take 100% of the plane tickets; but for the moment we prefer to be careful to say partial can be from 30% to 10% participation, it stays that way it is not. For us the main thing is to know who we invite on the international stage, in addition to the people from the Council who come.

20 PEOPLE INVITED 100% FUNDED?

(WHO ARE NOT AT FIRST GLANCE THE SAME AS THE INVITEES OF THE ONLINE DIALOGUE?)

The others? the guests that we are going to invite the 20 that are going where the 15 I told them that we have invited them to participate in the movements that will come to Tunisia, we will take their tickets 100%, because they are invited, it is not people from the council

And then in the Council we ask people to participate, that is the question, but

Everything is random, everything is random, it depends on how many people can do it.

And also to answer Damien's question, we're going to send out this week like you just suggested, a fixed date, so that people can send in their names and so, I'm talking about the whiteboard, start with the whiteboard, and then move on to The guests. whom Sall we invite.

AT AN IC MEETING DECIDE WHO TO INVITE TO TUNISIA

And so when Pierre said before, the next board meeting should be about that, it's who we invite, in relation to the thematic seminars and all that. So I think that. So, this is the situation. Hey do you have something to add?

@38B Alaa I don't have much to add Hamouda thanks I have other questions I'm here to answer.

@38C Leo: and we send you the will to participate to your Hamouda email.

EARLY OCTOBER A FORM TO BE COMPLETED BY IC MEMBERS

@38D Hamouda yes, we are going to write a letter, we will send it. I'm going to make a little file with who can participate. who can participate in your ticket. who does not have money to participate in his ticket. write the letter, as we always did in Brazil for the International Council that we did everywhere, so we are going to do it; I'll send it this week, with a deadline as Damien suggested, for example October 10th; October 1 first week of October something like that, with a fixed date; so we can send you and you respond in relation to that.

@38E Leo and when we say that it starts on November 30: it arrives on the 29th and leaves on the 4th?

@38E Hamouda on day 3 for people who finish earlier, and then there are night flights that can leave at night, it depends.

We are going to organize it with the departure and arrival logistics as well, and reach an agreement with the people on that, but we are going to send the information with the council's responses. it is who participates who does not participate with a deadline apart from that we will talk about the details.

Welcome Sushovan, Meena from India, I think so 2h05

THE DATES ARE FIXED?

@39 Rosa We are understanding that the contribution that is going to be given is 25 to 30% of the ticket, depending on how many people sign up, so it is worth noting who can cover your ticket as soon as possible, and the other question Rita was wondering here that the dates don't move, I don't know, the dates are already fixed, I don't know if I understood. hamuda?

 

@40 Hamouda Il faut vraiment mettre les dates, on peut pas à chaque fois changer les dates, on a fait les dates septembre, on a été incapable of faire le truc, à cause d'une discussion sur le consensus, qu'on a pas eu encore le consensus, et on a mis ces dates, in pensant que on aurait dû demander aux gens, c'est quoi les activités qu'ils ont, on a oublié habitat international que faisait leur truc au Chile,i on a complètement zappé, mais c'est comme ça, on peut se donner une semaine de plus, mais pas plus. 

Peut-être la prochaine réunion les dates sont fixés au 30 et au 3 si c'est pas ça, il faut voir comment va faire avec ça, sinon on fera jamais, il ya toujours des choses qui se passent, et si Alaa avec les Tunisiens sont capables, avec les elections, voir si on peut pas faire, je sais pas une semaine avant, mais même ça ça va déranger les gens d'habitat, parce qu'ils t'ont voyager vers l'Amérique latine, donc c'est pas facile, ça va pas être facile, sin il faut le mettre en fin décembre, mais il ya Noël pour vous tous et majorité de vous, donc vous allez être en famille sinon peut vous inviter au nouvel an en Tunisie, tout le monde vient tu n'hésites pour le nouvel an.

@41 Rosa Yes of course the dates can stay, Knowing that it comes from tasks, well we can make our contributions to the debates, which will be as far as possible, which in this seminar make a section at a nodal moment In this meeting that debate is going to be broadcast live, in the end I think we can move forward on it. I don't know how you see it, cool Cesare.

IAI CANNOT PARTICIPATE

@42 Cesare we cannot participate in one in the other, we do not have the gift of ubiquity. Impossible, we cannot postpone the meeting in Chile, because it is not just us, it is a very important set of networks, if it is going to be confirmed we will not participate. In addition, some of the interpreters are going to help us because for Chile, because we are going to have a hybrid world assembly of inhabitants, at least two workshops, so it can be problematic, I don't know, how to coordinate, if we have several interpreters, but it's good a limited number is to take this into account.

My suggestion is to see if we do it in the new year, maybe the tickets are cheaper, Until December the curve of tickets at the end of the year It goes up So I don't know We've waited until now we've done 30 let's do 31 that's the condition we can't do otherwise; If those are the dates we are not going to participate period.

@43 Hamouda regarding tickets: From September 15 to December 15, tickets are cheaper, then they increase only until January 15 at the end of January. You have to have that in mind too.

LET US NO MOVE THE DATES ANYMORE 

@442h11 Marcela was thinking about the dates. It is true that what Cesare raised is important, but other activities are also going to be carried out, undoubtedly. We have to choose, because we cannot, unfortunately let's say, adapt to all activities, for example we have COP 15 on biodiversity, which starts on December 7 there is the cop 27 which is also in December of those dates, I think he likes that also at the same time, so there are a lot of activities and we consider all the activities that there are, we are almost going to find dates to do the tunisia meeting. 

So I propose that the date proposed by the comrades from the Maghreb be maintained because later it will be very difficult, because there are other things, there are other events that are coming up, unfortunately no date is better, but we are going to have to choose some dates. We already postponed it first we talk about June July, then we talk about September, now we are talking about November and December, we can no longer think about the other year. So my proposal is that we keep this date and facilitate, as Alaa said, the virtual mode so that we cannot be present. This would be my proposal.

@45 Pink okay. I do believe that we have to… there are going to be many who are not going to be able to come and who are not going to be able to be online; then go ahead because to get down to work; the tasks that are to come; can we say what is an agreement ? companions, companions?

@46 Cesare yes yes yes shaila and marcela but impossible for us says cesare.

@46B Damien no one from the alliance can participate if the dates are kept. no one?

@46C Cesare look how to say it is a strategic event where there will be, I think, about 20 different networks. We do the task of coordinating the housing part agenda In the housing part in person; we have the task of 50 people; 50 people I want to say, for example, Bartiria and Mike and I who participate in the council, more or less alternately, to say we are there, because each one of us in our region is organizing things in preparation.

The other comrades are involved, each region has to send and look for resources also to reach Santiago de Chile. It's one thing. 

IF IAI HAS TO CHOOSE, SANTIAGO IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SEMINAR

Honestly, to speak clearly, it is more interesting for us to participate in this type of meeting than to participate in this long, long, long, long, long, long meeting for years. We are almost fed up to be clear; in agreement. Excuse me if I am clear, that is, it is important that we are always participating, we always talk, there is also someone today who continues to say that they need to debate the point that has already been debated, I think 1,000 or a thousand hundred times. Do you think that people like us, like you who are facing neoliberalism today are interested? Sorry if I'm clear. So think about it, if you want to do it, do it. I'm not going to do it, I'm not like someone who says that if I don't agree, nothing can be done. If you think that you have to do it, good luck, because we are going to participate in another other event,

@47 Leo The last question is if there is a possibility of advancing the seminar before the 30

GIVE US A WEEK TO PROPOSE A DATE WITH A LITTLE DIFFERENCE

@48 Hamouda Before these dates, it will be the people who participate in the climate issue, because there is the entire COP that will be in Egypt, there are many times that they will be very involved in this in this over there, that too, that's why we take it In consideration, we are already well involved in this, in the region, we are doing something in Tunisia on the issue of Cop 27, on the assembly of Maghreb al Mashreq movements, and the climate issue. It's a bit harsh, but what I'm saying, to respond a bit to everyone below regarding dates:

We are going this week we are going to watch with Alaa and our Tunisian friends in relation to the Brazilian elections in Tunisia sorry on the 17th because there is already a debate on the question of the electoral law and all that, which is going to have a debate Leave us this week: we will reply to you with a message Anyway, the message that we are going to send for the participation will be sent, so we already have a list of people and we are not going to go back.

Leave us this week and we confirm that we can play with the dates to do it before December 29 or after around December 5, that's the most we can do, but we'll see, we'll see. The COP is not from 8 to 16, it takes 3 weeks, the cop starts on November 7 and ends on November 24. Civil society participates, in any case, it is not us, it is the states that participate for 3 weeks, but our activities are towards the end of the fortnight of November.

So here it is. Leave us this week, we'll discuss it, and we can move these dates that are already there, and another date and we'll see. That's what we can do for now, otherwise we won't go out today. We confirm if we can change the date of 3 to something like that. Give us time, but we can't go any further, because of the cheap plane tickets, and also because of the Tunisian elections. So here it is.

@49 Rosa Yes, it seems very important to me that the international alliance of inhabitants be present for all the struggle they have. Let's see what is possible we will give time a week a week that the colleagues from Tunisia do not share What possibilities do they see,

THE AD HOC TEAM FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE COLLEGIATE SECRETARIAT WILL SUPPORT TUNISIA

And to share with you that the ad hoc team is working for the constitution of the secretariat of the forum, the international council has also proposed supporting the logistical part in this process towards Tunisia, and we could contact the colleagues from Tunisia to advance in it.

And another question perhaps for, if we agree with this we would stay on it. What the comrades from Tunisia commented on, regarding the points to be addressed, I think there is agreement that all that is missing is to refine the date to address the thematic points in Tunisia, the context, the future of the Forum that we are going to take up again this that we are going to build in Are you in these times Pierre has a question?

 

DATE OF THE NEXT IC MEETING SEPTEMBER 24

@50 Pierre My question is when the next meeting of the IC will be because it seems to me that we have things to finish, to move forward on this. I'm not talking about the issue of point four, which I think can be discussed in the chat, but the launch of the groups in short seems to me that the idea of ​​making groups a meeting in advance is a good idea too. So you say you can't on September 17, but maybe? What can be the week, when is the next meeting date? I believe that it is a point to clarify before we separate.

@51 Rosa yes The suggestion that we had raised in dialogue there was to meet on September 24. It could be until the 15th of next week and then until the 23rd, because I'm going to be out of Mexico. 

But the colleagues from Tunisia can confirm that they are reviewed, that the different IC members are organized by continent, we can send them a communication together with Hamuda, to see who they are going to invite, see the list of suggestions that has arrived, which are several, and meet in this weather. 

INFORM THE PEOPLE WE ARE GOING TO INVITE IN DIALOGUES

And then I think that we do give these two weeks, both for the colleagues to share the date, we also have to inform directly with the people that we are going to invite, it seems that the 24th would be a good date or that they are very close. We would have about 15 days to prepare the first dialogue If we want to start on October 6, then fine 

So I suggest that the meeting be on the 24th and that the other commissions meet, the groups meet, advance, work and prepare so that we arrive on the 24th with proposals. I don't know how Hamuda sees it.

IC MEETING SEPTEMBER 24

@52 Hamouda I agree with you Rosay, 24 will be fine for us. I will also be waiting for you on the 17th of this week when I am away; In any case, I can connect somewhere better on the 24th. In this way, the methodology committee is already compiling the names of the guests that have been sent, putting them by continent. I think Pierre has already done this job, from seeing who do we invite within this, with the thematic seminars, give time to the people of the continents, meet and decide on the people, and all that.

And we hold meetings, I think if we are already in the methodology committee to meet this week, and next week and continue with this work since it is already advanced, I think.

And on the 24th we give ourselves time to finalize all that, and the letter will be sent to the International Council for those who want to participate in the Tunis seminar, we will keep the date from the 30th to the 3rd for the moment, and depending on what we are going to see this week we will change if we have to change the date

@52B Leo 9 in the morning Mexico time 

@Rosa yes and a Last point in several points Mena did not ask for a word. meena please

ON SEPTEMBER 24 THE FIRST POINT WILL BE NEW MEMBERSHIPS

@53 Meena 2h25  Thank you Rosie I'm sorry. I missed most of the meeting because I miscalculated the time but I want you to raise a point on that is very important for us to participate in this process .

So I was wondering whether we could expedite our request for membership as Asia Pacific social Forum facilitation committee, which we have applied for. I was wondering when that would be decided, because only then we  would be able, otherwise it's all on me,and I don't have alternatives to attend the meeting. So could that be quickly expedited, because there are many many organizations which are depending on this to be able to be represented in this process. So my request to the IC is please and if there is something to do to help, we can translate it in three languages and send it on the list, that's possible for us. Please let us  know how to  expedite it up thanks.

@Leo why don't we decide now?

@54 Hamouda I mean I'll speak in English, it will be easier. I am finalizing the documents to send it to the IC this week, ok, and then we will do it on September 24. We will start with this topic of membership.

But for me Asia I already put you on the list, and you and the members that you put with you and we can also move forward in the meeting. It is just a procedure, and we will finish it on September 24. I'll send it out to the members over time and we'll wrap this up. that is all

Meena thank you Hamouda

CONFIRM THE SUGGESTED DATES OF THE DIALOGUES

@55 Leo Rosy could you repeat the dates of the different meetings? 

@56 Rosa yes I'm going to paste them in the chat, and I'm going to read them. We are proposing that the 6th of October be Asia, the 13th Africa, the 20th Middle East, the 27th Europe, and the 3rd of November America and the 10th of November 17th 24th Although that will of course depend on which of the dates we define of the thematic dialogues No ? Thank you Theresa for your input.

These are the suggestions and each continent would have to organize itself thinking that it is two and a half hours, we have already proposed it and say if a first block is organized, the first 40 minutes, the second hour, so that the diversity of regions of each continent can speak. As many said, there are several regions per continent, right? It will be difficult to decide who to invite and how long each person will speak.

But for that we are proposing these five questions that we now reach an agreement except for the fourth question, that Pierre does not agree, but that guide of questions is maintained, he is the only one who refused, who does not agree, but the majority we agree. So we leave it ready yes.

8 AM MEXICO TIME FOR DIALOGUES

There is an ideal time, it is being proposed that it be in the morning, it could be from 8 in the morning so that it is closer to the colleagues from Asia from 8 to 11 in the morning in Mexico. It may be two and a half hours waiting for it to not reach 3 hours, so that the colleagues from Asia can be more, that we can participate in the idea that we all participate in these dialogues. Yes, thanks.

ON CIRCULATION OF PROVISIONAL VENUES OF ACTIVITIES IN EVENT WSF MEXICO

@56B Rosa I would also like to make a miscellaneous point, which has nothing to do with the meeting but does have to do with the world social forum. I think I should have done it when we evaluated Mexico and it is not a minor detail. It is something that complicated many things in Mexico and it is worth recovering it for later times.

You know that we had a lot of difficulties organizing the agendas for each day, we had few people doing it, there were those who fell asleep to organize integrating social logos and in this process we asked Pierre for help organizing integrating Saske people organizations that sometimes registered in a time that the session was opened, and that we had no possibility to follow up.

As you know, Pierre is quite orderly and meticulous with all that, he helped us and made us see which ones were missing. In this process we shared databases where we were defining the places, the schedules and others. However, they were not the definitive data because we have to regroup the sessions. and then one day several organizations, there were not a few, complained to us that because we changed their headquarters, when the definitive final program came out. 

We understood each other because they claimed that there was a different venue, when they had never been informed of anything else. We searched and thought that Pierre here is sending information about the venues but that it was not definitive. I spoke with Pierre and evidently he confirmed he told me that he only gave him five six people. However, it seems to us that he gave it to more people and caused us conflict. 

I just wanted to leave what was announced, so that it does not happen again in other cases and we are also careful with the information. There will be the information that I wanted to share and well, see you next time. Pierre wanted to say something?

@57 Pierre Yes, so it seems to me that in the situation there were people who came to look for information and told them to go look for the organizing group, there were 4 people, there was no general disclosure of anything. now, because given the level of logistical problems in Mexico, it seems to me that I have been very reasonable, and I have always told these people to go see the people from the organizing committee. I don't understand that it was a noticeable problem. 

@57B Rosa Well, at the time it was. And I just wanted it not to go unnoticed. 

@58 Rosa Thank you very much See you next 24 ls my homework information with The agreements for us to organize Take care of yourselves have a nice weekend rest 2h33