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tunis 201503 extension
last modified June 29, 2017 by facilitfsm
videos & semi verbatim english notes of IC tunis 2015 held in UGTT headquarters 29 and 30th march
plan of video notes ( made to give english translation to those following the meeting in live video)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXEcdndpqxA&feature=youtu.be 3h08mn 29 march
second part from coffee break - including discussion on wsf2016 finalizing 3h05mn
ENGLISH TRANSLATION VERSION ( reverse chronological order)
International Council Meeting World Social Forum, Tunis, 29-03-2015
decision about montréal wsf2016 at 2h50mn
29 March 2015 14:33 CEST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4geFPmkN7I&feature=youtu.be - 30 march morning 1h48 mn - about transition IC and working groups - next IC
(note drafting in progress)
29 mars
Hello everyone, there is a IC meeting today march 29th from 2pm in tunis inasmuch possible it will be streamed, check in you tube "esperanza efessem" https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUGkY88973poKprpx3UsN5Q
we are on line, another channel https://plus.google.com/events/c89t3vji4fujtpi1gquf24418ag
and another in English
[14:46:36] starting
Mouhieddine: two days of work ahead of us, and conditions are not helping us
decision important to make during this IC we should have started at 2 and will go until 8pm tomorrow 9 to 1pm
i propose today to only give floor to IC members
1/ political evaluation - on regional context and stakes - Messaoud from FTDES 1h30 on this
2/ evaluation globale WSF2015 1h30
3/ next WSF where and who
4/ next IC where and who
5/ secretariat (information) in tunis
6/ new entance in IC
Foreword by secretaire général UGTT –
I was asked two days ago this 80 people - excuse for material conditions press conference tomorrow 10am hotel Africa
Discussion on agenda
Mimoun - agenda needs decision
Damien asks for 20mn on memory and governance instead of secretariat
Mimoun - why evaluation of context it is useless -
Mouhieddine - ok for Damien 20mn
Vittorio ok with Mimoun discuss this forum and then the future
( Guștavo: this is good information - thanks for transcribing)
Raffaella - compromise
Moema - political evaluation is a need and habit
Hector there is no more place for an ideal agenda have main issues in the today agenda
Mouhieddine - we have no way now to make a evaluation we have no elements for a deep evaluation of sf 2015 since 2012, things occurred - we are in a way of compromise give you some elements of balance
Taofik - will give some elements
Piero - we have all impression about the forum - for me this formula is over we cannot go on
Taofik - quickly estimated participation 45 a 50000 participants 5000 organizations registered 1200 activities 121 countries strong Maghreb presence African presence more than 2 years ago American presence stable strong Palestinian presence
finance balance - 820 000 euros - less than past edition - leaning curve - better deals with national companies and governments, two months from here - audit and OC report will be sent
Mouhieddine - 25 teleconference - science and democracy free media - need to be on the table for future strategy
[ 15:23:37] unplugging the loud speaking video1h06
Piero - there was 30 time more people in the government march than ours this formula of forum is out of reality - no one speaks about it - we have managed to make an assembly about ... the region
Taofik - this forum may not have taken place after 18th march was a shock in a stable country. the fact that the forum took place was a achievement - and there were people from the region speaking about what they wanted to speak
Palestinian issue - was considered central by OC - but Syrian Iraq and Libyan issue were also present
This forum was a central point in the life of social movements of the region
Kamal - it was maybe impossible to hold the forum after those attacks - the reaction of everyone was blunt - we hold it- we are under the risk of attacks and political assassination and civil war in Libya and government that do not agree on what we do and face agent from those stats that infiltrate our space- an issue is the gender equality
attack on Tunisia - is against democracy in globality not us - they wish to kill the unique democratic experience - if it fails it is our defeat
we want to get inside the evaluation- i think we can be proud to have held this forum in such drastic conditions
[ 15:35:21Mimoun we are conscious of the conditions of this forum - we thank the organizing committee
2012 was a positive evaluation - we expected a progress in 2015 - but the process is retro ceding
activities - we all agree there was good content - was upset me is the organizing question - no interpretation in activities
OC took decision to train a group without consulting Babels networks-
(uddhab : ok, good)
Delegation from Algeria and Morocco - OC did not express concerns
1st march was disorganized - we walk like visiting Bardo
now the content of activities - some of them was in contradiction with WSF charter: organizations that defend world bank - other social entrepreneur -we have assume responsibilities - there were integrists - a political party of morocco - - distribution of religious book by islamist group - which vision will we give if we go on like this - the end of WSF
Mouhieddine 3mn max
[ 15:43:46] 1h 26 Ouattara - we gave a lesson to institutions - by going to Bardo - woman and youth were visible - satisfaction
Vittorio - 1 2 3/ strong disorganization i believe that this history ended - in 2001 - we said we must understand our enemy and each other ...now we know each other and history runs very fast inequality grows - we need a forum which not only a public space fo debate we need a space for militant fight, a place where to choose 1 2 3 campaigns- not useful to have hundreds of seminar - i can learn many thing on internet - this forum was useful for Tunisian people -2/ useful for strong ngo
[ 15:51:01] Gina - dispersion is a strong failure - lack of agglutination
we don’t have commission and working group - it is really time to see ??- to see the amount of solidarity of people organizing themselves 3/ mixture men women nice
[ 15:55:24] Leo - be grateful to OC - feeling that world is close to the discussion forum is a big ship
( Azril Bacal: Gracias por el video! :) )
and it is not be taking things out that we succeed - it is by giving a spirit a quiet pause that we had in this form take forward the assembly of convergence there is a lot to be done - was a very good forum
[ 15:58:52] Leonardo cut - a meeting yesterday - we thank everyone you are nice thank you applause- activities changed place and time - have a central board where all change be posted- sorry there was a failure of convergence of convergence
opening march - disturbed by climate change - motto against terrorism was not in our values all types of oppression all types of terrorism
trade union could not have a meaningful presence 200 people from Brasil 100 organization
[ 16:02:52] Gus - 1h45 evaluation is how through the contradiction we live we can move forward- issue is how we can adapt WSF to evolution of situation- which elements are to be taken into account for this
1/ we are obliged to change because situation changed in Tunisia
2012 revolution and 2015 pacific transition and generalized war - link social situation and war
in 2001 social movement were in expansion on their political space and now we are confronted with other movement than emancipation
What are the action that movement have to take at world scale - how we organize ot have a strategically debate from movement view points
From organization - 3 elements played to make organization difficult - we thank organization comite - was not helped by another element meteo rain and wind made discussion difficult and congeniality of forum was less
positive elements - participation of movements was positive - the frame - the movement came because they want to participate - some who were afar came back they wanted to discuss position of movements- forum stays a s convergence space for movement
Interesting debates - an evolution of forum in the linking between WSF and thematic forum who allow to deepen issues and tackle mobilization
WSF as a space is transversality discussion between thematic
we saw hat difficulty was to go further on mobilization - those who worked were carried by thematic forum -
ten great issues where it is possible to go further than simple discussion - event if we were not able to organize restitutions
interested and contradiction space of transversality
space of contribution between those who want to deepen radicalize and those who want to enlarge
some come to learn other want to go further
go further in this contribution and not eliminate one side of the contradiction
world issues are immense and we are not up to them WSF stays as this space
[ 16:10:25] Christophe - difficult of our discussion is that there are two ways to watch this forum:
as event - this forum is successful
remember Brazil Nairobi Dakar problem not different from earlier, quality of debate and number of people attended an achievement
a second way is the political impact of the forum anther discussion contrary to Piero - 5 time more people in today - 10000
in those two continent we have major difficulty in Europe and latin America forum process is stopped - political impact
Vittorio is wrong thinking that action direct event is good : we have tried altersummit is not a success - then Florence 10+&0 was - low attraction of alterglobalism which is a real political program
[ 16:14:27] Moema - i we have been more absent - none of us have taken deep commitment - good points are yours - bad points are shared with us : to all of us in IC it is time to say about the moment we are leaving in the workd
2001 was upraise of alterglobalist movement -it is easier to organize in transversality and open the door in such a context. today we are in resistance in all countries - it is dramatic in Brasil as well Bolivia Ecuador Venezuela Mexico facing a drama same in Europe
Used to have strong movement - that his not our situation today
the forum has a strong vitality other we we would not have the house full
we have a deep responsibility - how to move the rpocess forum i an moment fo dramatic attack of dark forces of capital more organized then before
how to have a forum that help us to resist
2mn each
[ 16:16:41] 2h00 - Rafaella
strength of this forum is expressed by Kamal - coming from all corner of the region: many people came here and improved their coalisation
global network of disappeared migrant has been build t
coalisation for supporting Greece has established a work plan two plus
negative elements coming from IC: lack of space for dialogue between networks (coming from the IC )
overcoming fragmentation
real weakness
i do not think that forum can impose priorities - it can help social actor to overcome fragmentation tools to find their priorities
this WSF was possible thanks to passion of Maghreb committee the IC did not do anything for this forum
[ 16:21:08] roberto - unpopular intervention - old timer 2001 have a common view about the forum - organization structure is not directed to work but to dialogue: 30 organization only out of 100 - two years without commission
After this meeting we do not take strategy decision - this formula cannot allow us to elaborate strategies: ic is not a working tool
[ 16:25:03] houtard - problem of fragmentation exchange - without convergence - facing the world crisis - civilisation crisis - new paradigm of collective life of human being on the planet
ic should precise what means another possible world how to define this ?
how to implement in common actions
we cannot change if we judgeand do not act - get to united action as in alca in latin amercia
we need concerted results otherwise we loose hope
formula allowing not to change the basics - but going towards a action
Relation with nature - economy - use value- generalization of democratic process- interculturality
4 big issues make a step forward
[ 16:28:56] mai sirock -( to be reviewed with video) ??
what is the message form the form i have difficulty to say
remember in florence - antiwar demonstration
we live a world with destabilization
i was in bardo - saudi arabia - we are against the consequences
george bush made a program war on terrorisms
who produce this terrorisms?
perhaps Tunis is the only country ..........i was in many forums - 5000 500 50
[ 16:32:54] 2h15
[ 16:33:12] Piero - organizing committee is not the problem - responsibility of IC
we were 2nd largest power after anti war demo in 2003
as event it works ... as Christophe says, we wiped away SMA assembly of assembly e tc
kurds have decided ....nobody knows what assemblies what is important now ?
we prepared seminar 6 months ago everything changed
is the place where to decide
[ 16:37:02] PNGO thanks we would like to invite you all to support us
[ 16:39:30] Annie forum is a process not an event we started in hammamet a critical positive approach taking this process forward
the evaluation is essential we suffer from amnesia all we proposed was held by the organizing committee
everything was held am shocked about the way we direct to C we ddid not do anything
it is the frist time we are proposed to agglutinate this is areal newness i thigna the organizers
forum has a certain maturity today there are good and bad workshops
[16:44:45] Amit -huge tribute - decision made quickly to save WSF this is a discussion htat we have after every forum it is a bit of a ritual . i remember threes of for IC meeting s we decide about detailed evaluation which we never do
i propose to have i 3 4 months why? obvious that WSF is in a period of transition - methodology is changing where space is available fro movements to come together why translation did not work - why ? Methodology moving in the right direction but fewer movement using this methodology
the energy in tunis was lower in terms of numbers and quality of evaluation, while we are movement forward in making the space more friendly
Movements are using other spaces - you would expect that movement in a period of struggle would come to this space - special thanks to volunteers
[ 17:21:41] now resuming after pause intervention from Choucha refugee camp
[ 17:27:54] transform
[ 17:28:39] tord - at this world social forum - convergence took place as un people summit dismantling corporate power - convergence with climate justice
[ 17:30:54] Damien - this evaluation reflects problems we have in IC there is a certain imperialism from English and French the table has no gender balance and people less than 40 nobody speaks
[ 17:33:32] pierre B - we started this forum 14 years ago long path in 14 years we have one cause climate change like the 2003 anti war
[ 17:39:17] Pierre G post event forum – on initiatives and documentation- meet in the evening
[ 17:39:33] Prabir we did not show courage to have a second forum in india, WSF is a pace where to locale global resistance
WSF remains a looks at the convergence assemblies try to build convergence spaces from before how do we keep continuity
Overload of meeting and not enough action
( giuseppe: Thank you so much in tunis for doing this video!! Amazing work as every time! :))
[ 17:41:34] Francine - not a criticizing to OC - accept responsibilities - stop discussing about same - interpretation is a crucial problem
we need another IC two years - without anything - other structure - our strategy between what is in the forum
[ 17:44:53] Roger ( Canada) - 1/ adopt analysis before Bardo event - program great achievement - 2/ hodling the forum achievement- WSF was in a crisis - we had a tactical move to tinisia this cucle is ended- let us go to Greece
[ 17:46:17] Taofik - attempt of discussion with babels was unsuccessful - and late difficulte - resulted in non implication of babels
about interpretation - IC has great responsibility - did not help political diagnostic mobilization resources raisin - encouraging OC no political initiative to enrich- some people helped individually but IC was absent- all elements are on the table - gus Rafaella moema have made proposals to make WSF event more relevant in world transformation - a working group to give new ideas next session of IC
[ 17:50:23] Messaoud -then some intervention of flat movements
[ 17:58:00] Mouhieddine we thank IC that entrusted WSF to us: in 2012 we had no experience, in 2015 we tried to move forward
we tired on many points to move forward progress on agglutination on program on villages
on 17th march - aftre4 hours of hesitation we decided o move on but organization changed completely
security issues - government is scared Tunisian have no habit of search o body this has delayed people of tunis did not want to go because of the rain we engage the people of university volunteers strike - less lodging- i came from France on march 17th we have defect and failure - translation
[ 18:12:21] Moema - listing the points in the agenda 53 - difficult points next WSF start
[ 18:14:35] Messaoud - the rhythm of the region is depending on WSF Tunisia was triggered by social movement not political parties - weak because of dictatorship - led the islamist to power because they are organised - laxity - extremism did not come wit revolution - 2 3 / void left by social movement - we are still in the same process- terrorism has no frontiers - they use internet twitter develop synergies together in the region- Boko Haram goes to Cameroon
Social movement need a political strategy - leftist groups have no strategy
what the use of discussing thing if you do not develop proposal for the region
slogan of 2010 are WSF slogans social justice is not found yet- this would restrict terrorism
[ 18:20:47] youth we need dream we need vision and dissensions than about us
[ 18:22:28] x from ftdes- we wanted to show that movement is going on .. give breath to a country and world movement for dignity
our movement is in crises we suffer- we hold WSF in tension of terrorism and civil war
4 devoiding factors we started on a platform on social justice we move to religion modernity religion politic 2/ peaceful > violence assassination 3/ universal spirit - all culture cultural war - islamophobia and hatred of other -all culture of wsf is threatened - if this context goes on- junction of southern social movement and northern youth is the solution
[ 18:27:45] Moema- maybe we can organize a dialog between observers and IC members but now we need to go forward. ask your support for us to improve on this agenda
[ 18:34:10] Moema - proposing a commission OC 2 members of IC volunteers tomorrow first topic in our agenda is it ok ? Damien and Vijay volunteering
[ 18:36:20] Raphael- before presenting WSF 2015 we thank Tunisian people and youth- concretize our aspiration and dreams- social forum need to be built in this perspective of dream- we are a collective- we propose Montreal Quebec and Canada
Major opportunity with elements for innovation to open participation
We do not consider social forum and movement be exhausted we see more and more gathering to occupy spaces
Our vision is here spaces youth occupy and speak out
Fundamental to bet on youth - exhaustion - we are staying behind not seated waiting to be given the floor
We are children from WSF - i have learned since 2004 - concrete gathering of youth- WSF needs this second breath since 2010
50000 student on strike - 140 organization support our process - city of Montreal 3 university 3000 university logding - strategies for visa - solidarity extension visibility be as Inclusive as possible- we are ready we need green light
[ 18:42:21] Carminda - process transparence integrity dreams youth- we want to put our part in the WSF process- give a room to all the people here today evident we want to participate- rein vindicate the freedom of movement- visa - an upfront campaign
we have a little team ready to work with foreign affairs and lawyers- a lot of methodological innovation and importance of art
[ 18:44:50] Genevieve (Aqoci) - we create platform of engagement 30 years- oxfam - youth summit of oxfam inside WSF 2015
hope pedagogy give space to youth to be heard - youth do not want to be part of the problem be part of the soilution
[ 18:46:06] utala autochthonous women idle no more- Canada treads on humain rights of autochtonous people- i learn in WSF about situation in the world- we are already mobilization
[ 18:48:12] Carminda - we made a song
[ 18:48:46] Francine - we knew since last IC meeting that here is a real interest and mobilization, -in which measure has the discussion moved since Hammamet- our Greek friends have told us the are not ready to organize a WSF -not on the table
more than 10 Canadian organizations- need to have a protocol- recommendation of IC was to have a discussion in Canada
[ 18:53:39] Hector- ask the other
[ 18:56:01] Pierre B consultation 150 people- small consultations- 500 organization consultation- vast majority happy
3 big social coalition trade uniions women student- all of them support the idea- there are two dimitris and other
there is a huge critical mass that support and work and makes sure that everyone is included
[ 18:58:18] Amélie - resolution du conseil general 67 members in all régions au Quebec- with partners in he world- we participated in various consultation meeting- adding that at the heart of our coceres we wish to tumble the development model- visibiilize struggle of southern country in the north
[ 19:00:08] Nathalie CSN acknowledge a building process open legitimate- trade union are not the main initiator- last FSQ was organized by people not linked to trade union. reason for CSN not in the platform is not a priority for us - but we have no veto on this initiative- if 100 groups are wiling - if we are not backing up - we communication in a franck and open way- they know about it
if trade unions can have solidarity horizontal towards other organization it could be a breath for discussion here
[ 19:02:59] Dimitri- represent Europe: every Monday i dream of WSF in Montreal- every Tuesday i ask is this relevant strategically ? be strategies in political choice- in 1910 i want in Paris we had prepared 1912 WSF in Montreal and we had active support of the mayor
Arab spring - Tunisian told us hold WSF in the Maghreb within 24h we withdrew our application
i wish Rafaela gives a report on the Greek wind assembly
choice has to be Greece in two years Brumas i the room
[ 19:08:14] FTQ - we are in discussion with Quebec collective - a decision of IC will be backed by FTQ U we are not opposed to WSF in Quebec -
[ 19:10:10] Unifor are people who normally go to the forum well get visa - answer those question before- we have a right wing fascist government in Canada election in October- if IC decides we will support
[ 19:12:51] 1h50 Piero - we criticized the model not the OC- we need not to discuss where to hold forum- propose to leave 1917 the forum IC make a proposal what need to be change what is the role of IC- what can we do about Quebec proposal? forum international of youth in 1915- occupy - blockupy
[ 19:19:08] Leonardo January 15 15 years commemoration- first forum in the north we do not know what will take place in Greece
[ 19:23:19] Francisco : we are against forum in the north - 40 partners in Tunis - if we have no guarnatee we do not support
[ 19:24:15] Gina - they give fresh air take greece out of the agenda porto alegre not so attractive
[ 19:28:06] Jason - favor
[ 19:28:48] Leo - we arrived to the pont where we need to check obstacles - a moment of uncertainty restructure around what ?
[ 19:30:58] Chico - as a young - am young more time than you- seminaries on struggle nothing to do with WSF can be held in Greece- porto alegre can make something face to Davos - seminar about proposal profrss on IC- Quebec we have no right to stop this process -they had patience with us- we have no right to refuse
1915 and engage in a world campaign on visa in Canada
[ 19:34:42] franck - syndicat de la santé who support montreal 1915 - i came a as father i have two girls - i hop the youth wil continue struggling - printemps erable - my daughter are demonstrating in Quebec am upset there is repression
[ 19:36:35] ouattara in 1910 i was in the room when Canadian process started am convinced
[ 19:39:19] Rafaella - WSF every two year- add WSF 2°015 is too much pressure on social movement agenda- how to be useful to existing social actors- to produce new dialogue with new social actors - am preparing this dialogue in Greece in Athens - if in Montreal a big world social forum of youth - it will be provide a good contribution
[ 19:43:49] Taofik - skeptical on visa -a forum where people from the south have problem to participate- short time to mobilize- what is their plan B ? link with south movement be substantial
[ 19:47:12] Hector - at the beginning of the meeting we said IC is useless WSF is useless and we stay in the same tends
[ 19:54:17] Pierre G – can a forum in montreal in 1915 be counter productive? Why would it be? – organizers have also pledged to make it an extended forum event
[ 19:54:24] Mouhieddine: everywhere visa question is a check and balance position- commission evaluating progress- there is no other proposal
[ 19:55:38] Maren cannot detach theory from practice important to continue wf process agree with amit we talk because WSF process is going on
[ 19:58:52] x ? Greece !!
[ 19:59:59] Mimoun IC still operates - we take decision and come back on them we took a decision in Casablanca - as a event we can organize anywhere visa issue was set in Casablanca- i expect Canadian friends to come with info on visa
[ 20:02:51] Gus - our problem is to liberate energy to spare effort to make things better (- movements are ready - give them the chance- as IC we have discussed o the way to evolve form to run - 2015 2018 polycentric forums everywhere - Alca in 2000 was important- we open forum in Montreal - open possibilities- it is not IC who made the WSF 2015 there are OC they dynamize IC- please ask them to give info about hardships
[ 20:06:14] Teivo - worst case scenario ? WSF form on youth is paternalistic
[ 20:08:34] Sonia - check and balance ridiculous - take social forum in the north- Trojan horse- visa but bad room for the south
[ 20:09:48] Bernard - reason for success it the preliminary mobilization process- and we have this same process i Quebec and Canada- occupy embassy’s and consulate world wide
[ 20:10:31] sally- in the past we have always supported forum u the south- now global crisis - - build strong social movement in the north
[ 20:12:20] Christophe two more ideas - we know there is difficult of laing amercia and europe north America i vibrant with movement - we can benefit from this - go in north America can help us- we can benefit from them- 2/ i hear Pierre B and Hector we need methodology - let us use Quebec to transform methodology of forum with them
[ 20:15:58] Amit as IC we do thing that question our legitimacy- reason of two year rhythm- only funded international NGO being there- why revised this principle- another reflection of how the IC works- we worked criteria of what - how inclusive process is .... we have not had this discussion- what harm would it make - it is not a price it is a responsibility- visa issue is a phenomenon only people - you will have minimum NGO participation from the south *
[ 20:19:45] wilhelmina -visa issue -
[ 20:20:19] reseau dette et development- we have put water to mouth to Canadian friends- i expected them to present progress of their work - visa is a concern- we support 100% holding in Canada- put effort on visa issue
[ 20:22:47] transform- best way for evolution is practice- there will be less African - and more latinos
[ 20:24:04] Annie - no vox- way to anchor a forum - 80% local participation- anchoring is fundamental, building takes time, i think as Brazilians and gus - the more there are events, the happier, not a youth forum
[ 20:26:52] Massa (Burkina -novox happy to see struggling youth organizing the forum, we are not dreaming we cannot go
[ 20:28:01] (young participant) je veux que les vieux aient confiance en nous i want them to trust us
[ 20:28:29] Hamouda, we are in a key moment, movement need to be in solidarity that is there is more forum is ok important to support Quebec, at the same time we are in an IC that is not operative- we had a structure that could interact with Quebec there was not, we left them alone - we must support - IC must find a new way of operation we need that our culture be included in forum strategy
we are in war that will be a crap during the next five years
[ 20:31:18] Moema Francine and myself - listening to all intervention major problem raised is the visa question- our proposal is to really be together for visa- have a full WSF in Montreal - brasil is proposing a thematic forum that is beautiful - seminar in Greece part of the process quite ok as part of the process deepens - - But now we say yes to Canada-knowing that there are many difficulties problems butas well there is a srong young mbilized open mouvement in canada and USA with support of all of su there is a strong and oubh mobilized open movement in Canada and usa- even with the support of those who cannot go to for visa reasons - we will be together - this is the proposal - applause
30mars
[30/03/2015 10:36:32] resuming
agenda
Next thematical regional forum and international events
Memory - restitution of achievement what we made here
Secretariat and reorganization of IC
New members
Next IC
- -
– many have no place to stay - - pyramidal structure of WSF - volunteers are last on the list - we cannot give our opinions - someone bosses us – and give our opinions -
Taofik – les volontaires étaient autogérés processus de mobilisation de plusieurs mois – je ne vois pas ou est le problème
Next thematical regional forum and international events
( see wsf2015-calendar) page
Youssef Initiative from comrade in brazil - propose international committee meeting in Palestine – Ramallah or Gaza - break the siege In Gaza –
Forum for the youth in Palestine – when will see in the agenda
International social forum for youth in this region - Italy Spain Greece in this region
Chico Initiative propose au conseil de Hammamet – promouvoir un séminaire ( pas un forum) quelque part en 2015 autour de la stratégie des mouvements de la société civile face au pouvoir croissant du système qui provoque guerre réchauffement – système est un pouvoir énorme et nous sommes en train d’etre mis hors jeu – pas suffisamment fort pour affronter le néolibéralisme - pb de stratégie générale – action de niveau planétaire - une activité a eu lieu au fsm2015 la sale était pleine et la discussion était tellement bonne – on a décide de continuer le lendemain et 100 personnes sont venues
Le groupe d’institution qui a proposé va continuer a organiser les choses et vous invite a dire que vous veniez – l’année prochaine mars 2015 accueilli par les grecs
Francisco Juin sommet G7 en Allemagne on vous invite pour les activités 7 et 8 - congres alternatif jeudi manifestation
Sally Internet governance use as experiment – accumulation of power threat on democracy - from an anti neoliberal perspective - looking to all users of internet and social movements - 85 organization have signed a call - ad hoc coordinating committee with 2 month delay
Vijay - we do not pay enough attention to our guiding principles – motive can be to explode others - guiding principles say that all streams of be included- Success of Hyderabad forum in 2003 is that non Marxist left was included – three person from brazil – visited – there is not happening in Nepal and in india - old veterans do not appreciate - there is a need that some senior from IC must visit include Chico - having dist up Bihar and also two states of south india all we culminate in a thematic forum - see how WSF process has deepened – those who have no fiuled - about 20 district forum before 2015
Leonardo salimos a 10h30 a palestina – algunas organizaciones quieren proponer que next IC be in brasil
Gina Tarapoto foro panamazonico – 4 ejes derechos indigen hombre y mujeres defensa ecosistema amazonio – integración con diversidad cultural Fecha no definida 2015
Salete Foro mundial de media libre - POA 2015 or Montreal 2015
Hugo IC meeting in athen in autumn ( withdrawn later)
Damien Foro mondial de cultura de Resistencia ( when?)
Leo Assemblee – paix en syrie event in Rojava - conference pour paix et domcratie en syrie - presence du conseil international
Jason - ripess observer hat - septembre – ( is it inside WSF process ?)
Amit - organize a regional forum on health and social security march april 2015
Ali - Iraq social forum October 2015
Arab – speaker – no concrete announcement of event
Taofik? - African forum 2015 ?
Raffaella - send us lines ( vide
[10:38:37] http://youtu.be/VI4RaH8Yfoc new channel for today
( uddhab l: Hi Pierre can you help read our proposal ?(was not read because did not fit well in the various points of discussion but is left for reference)
Casablanca IC, the International Council "agreed to the proposal of the movements of Quebec to work in order to verify the possibility of having an event in the World Social Forum in Montreal in 2015. And it committed to discuss with the movements in Asia the opportunity to include an event in Asia in 2015 or in 2017. a proposal for after Tunis 2015 will be finalized at the next meeting of the International Council."
I hope South Asian participants (who are more in number in the meeting than in Casablanca IC) will discuss about it, and explore the possibility to hold it in South AsiaIf our South Asian comrades propose and agree upon, we together with VK (South Asia), NIGD (South Asia) and Nepal Social Forum Secretariat will be happy to organize next IC with a Thematic WSF in Kathmandu in February-March 2015
Uddhab and Nepal Social Forum Secretariat
[10:43:12] this is for the discsusion on next IC which is at the end of todays discussion
[10:47:19] uddhab pyakurel: it is about a global event in Asia as well, IC n event, pls read whenever it is appropriate
if u read my ideas here: just to complement Vijay
(7mn video) Damien projet petrobrasi – group grap 2012 - some confusion with IC secretariat (ended 2012) - work started start 2014 2000 digitized documents out of 10000 -
[10:44:07] d space software library software
[10:45:20] norma (12mn )- hacer un lista de todos los foros habidos e sus refernttes - send them a letter
[10:57:12]( video 26mn) Leonardo - brasil proposes to host next IC beginning of july 2015- left wing popular celebration 2 july in Bahia
] Grap proposed financing of memory project to petrobrais- financing will end - end of july 2015- after that we will see
(14mn video) janaina we came to find people to help take this project after it ends in july
Raffaella : Who is ready to join this working group – in addition to brazilian group ( 17mn video)
[11:02:43] Jason ( 19mn video) management of website part of IC governance issue raised by Jason
Pierre (21mn video) propose to reactivate memodoc list created in Casablanca - agreed
(29mn video) Leonardo – Damien – it is Grap who got the financing of Petrobras I suggest people from ex Grap to answer
Chico – Petrobras helped only for memory and ends in july 2015
(30mn video) Vijay systemic aavaz summer school- discussion on next IC will be later
Rafaella - management of website
10mn break (31mn video)
[11:31:26] resuming after pause difficulty to work
[11:31:59] send a proposal on secretariat task was supposed to talk in Hammamet - but no time we decided to have secreatariat in couple - morroco and Tunisia FTDES and FMAS will follow - stagiaire Nils who is with us until june - supervision Hamouda and Alaa
[11:33:10] Hamouda - we had trouble about world social forum website we have a webmaster that will work on site jason - pierre interested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4geFPmkN7I
( 0mn video ) Petite équipe de travail premiere maquette – ancient webmaster brésilien avec janaina – pourvoir le lien entre site fsm et
[11:35:14] Mimoun - we had decided in 2011 we decided rotating secretariat- the most correct would be to move secretariat in Canada now
[11:36:34] Moema - do not mix secretariat of IC with OC of WSF - this IC secretariat has many tasks in helping IC to work better - folow the memory , to allow the working groups to really have support - - organizing committee has many many other task, if we mix the two otherwise will be second priority- secretariat need to help IC to be effective in organizing the forum – welcome proposal by Hamouda – you have improved understanding of process - FMAS and FTDES have conditions -while in Canada are starting and not members of IC
[11:38:18] liege - i have the same understanding as Mimoun but i disagree with this - i think IC is different discrimination sur es languages
[11:41:48] (8mn video) OK with secretariat - Vijay- china still not on board- in south asia Kathmandu is the place where to meet- a kind of supplementary secretariat is very necessary- bottom up process - do have not support of party - those of us who have connection come here and give picture which does not give the full picture- have a supplement secretariat in Katmandu - financing - responding to reality of grassroots
[11:44:01] (video 10mn) Maren- I do think that the question of secretariat is important - cannot be decided without a discussion on the genral functioning of WSF - we need to take time - generous offer - asap have an IC meeting that actually discuss functioning of IC -
[11:45:51] chico - do not complicate things too much when they are already complicated- people ask I want to get in IC to whom should i send a IC application? – I say send to heaven may be it will land somewhere
transfer of secretariat was decided –Hamouda told they received the IC secretariat knowing it was not OC , but they could not handle it - tey were totally absorbed by organizing WSF- we are rethinking IC - we need time to breathe- if Tunisian friends are agreeing to take this role provisional for some time - so it can reexist secretarial of IC – we thank and accept -
[11:50:08] Hamouda - liege Chico Maren –we support we were unable to handle the IC secretariat – we have sent a proposal for tasks – thre is a need to first rethink IC then specify secretariat we give a hand and is not easy –and si not closed – we would like our friends in Asia an d brazil to help – that it will be collaborative - secretariat collaborative Arabic Spanish we work together - I know that the Brazilian lave through – there is no money – we make it without money - waiting for IC to put in place a structure volunteering
[11:50:33] Rafaella - be realistic share what Chico said – Maren is right we have to reopen a discussion towards renewal of whole process - also the tools of WSF process and IC - this is a long discussion – for now grateful for the commitment - as volunteers withtou money - we go home and we will see again in the next IC - no sense to go on in this discussion
Go to net point of agenda –how to produce a good debate on
Can be agree on secretariat
[11:53:26] (19mn video) ruby –support Vijay - more role to forum - Teivo – wonderful amount of forum – local forum should be more – participation -increasing relevance - strategy –not a technical proposal - remaining organic - have to be facilitated … secretariat concerted way to increase participation
[11:56:28](22mn video) Pierre : i share what was said on secretariat - based on voluntarism and contribution - create group to include people willing to contributors - in Casablanca we agreed on a list of 10 tasks of IC - i will send again on IC list -have the frame and
Can we Agree on that
[11:56:43] gus – minimum level secretariat – janaina endure secretariat - list et site
2nd thing site there is nothing -
3eme task Hamouda is doing alone since 5 years - he takes initiative date and agenda - convocation du conseil itnernatonal – easier when in the region
tache de liaison minimum entre préparation fsm2015 et conseil international
pour tout le reste il faut que nous discutions
minimum liaison tasks
fr the rest let us discuss
Wilhelmina -(26mn video) we need to understand decision made in the past - other decision – political important that …
[12:01:20] mimoun - decision was Tunisia - now we have two different countries - fmas et ftdes coordinated par deux personnes deux pays different - personally do not agree
Messaoud we close this discussion
[12:08:27] Rafaella – I ask if we can accept this proposal - as a temporary arrangement until we have a more comprehensive proposal on structuring of our work - be realistic and committed personally how we reorganizes to discuss the IC- and reopen discussion when ready for general discussion
Judith (31mn video) - I feel the secretariat should be where the forum is
Raffaella - the discussion on this point is over
Mimoun no consensus on this note this
34mn video
Take the floor only to suggest in which way we can make a good and effective discussion untill the next IC
How we reorganize until next IC working groups about transitionic
Be realistic and committed - started discussion many month ago- established working group – and majority of tasks – they vanished after conclusion of IC - any kind of decision we take let us implement it – we can go until fourth millennium
How we reorganize to start the reorganization discussion on IC
[12:12:00] (37mn video) Moema – of course reorganization of IC is connected with reorganization of WSF - we stop the discussion on IC because we are stopped in reorganizinge the forum
Work in transitions
we need a working group that 2, 3 people to facilitate the work that will present in the next IC working together with secretariat a proposal about how we can work in the transitional time facilitated by 3 people
[12:12:15] make an evaluation of proposal on the table of people coming in IC
[12:14:31] (40mn) Jason - we do not have commission any more
one specific should address financial issues report back to IC – OC how finances have worked –
2/minimal minimal work internet website social forum this group can be linked to the memory groupe – so we do not disperse
Executive mandate to this group
[12:15:00] (43mn) Agree with Moema – we need a little group of people committed - Francine: we cannot end before this seminar on strategy – I disagree with Chico – in this seminar we need to discus strategy of forum
3/ discussion politique to learn from each other what happens in the world
Hamouda (45mn video) - we have two dates next IC I brazil and Montreal
this working group must prepare a document, sent before IC, so we can react - to have a discussion before july and progress
no other issue on this next IC than reorganization of IC – so the secretariat can be put in place - 2/ new membership 3 years pending 10 organizations - a small group that review the documents and send on IC list and 72h to react- wen need this enlargement
forum mondial au canada – next IC we can arrange
[12:24:20] (47mn) I understand we are on year transition – 15month - three memory group that take the tasks of a minimum web - a group support to secretariat - reorganization of IC - clarify those three groups - four groups will be support for – making groups where people are not reacting is tiring
Chico (51mn video) – 3 people that facilitate – the reorganization of IC - axe de travail prochain ci only p, reorganization of IC other wise we do not get out of it - there is also a IC before the next WSF
53mn video Judith - 6 th o 10th july in Geneva -
[12:31:58] (54mn) Damien: next IC principal point - agree with Chico - reorganization is also governance - secretariat – working group facilitating - 4 years – 4 representative – I have not seen an organization going in or out - IC is in crisis un recomposition process - ridiculous to have new people in a IC in crisis – have a dialogue with them and think a new dynamics- we cannot decide today - maybe july is too short and October better for next IC
[12:32:21](57mn) Pierre 4 groups I will send on the list invitation and people will come on the list
[12:32:48] Gus –Damien so far nobody was excluded from IC - and entry was refused 2 or 3 times - IC was always in crisies - secretariat study the cases and submit on the IC list – people expresse their views
Hamouda - not normal that we cannot answer them - there are people willing to go in
Damien( 1h) - we cannot think of new organization than entrance of forums and coordination - Canada forum is not in the IC
Hamouda
[12:36:40] Rafaella - conclusion of discussion
15 month transition We have many issue on which we agree
Transitional year - We can use all occasion to discuss - Past Greece to Quebec 1year and 3 month
Transitional IC we decided that we will devote next IC mainly to this discussion
we need in order to manage the next months we confirm or establish now 4 groups -
those who raise their hand and be really committed to work
if you re not ready to work no problem
the task of group on IC reorganization to organize a big consultation of everybody
in that case do not rise your hand yo will be consulted
4 groups
One on memory already done a and wti
The other one are person coming from regional experience to improve the work of transitional secretariat
Third group proposed by Jason
Last group animating the debate on the reform of the IC on reorganization produce a document with concrete proposals before next IC when we will decide
point on pending applications to be IC member
this part I really hope that one of the first reform of IC to open the door to the existing social forum and convergence assemblies - they are part of …organization are part of them
personally we will take in the next IC
my personal opinion open the door to convergence assemblies and regional social forum –
what to do with those organization which made the application in times when the IC was the old one and which are waiting four years
[12:43:17] Moema propose that secretariat systematize info hey already have - send to all IC - we invite them as observers and allow them to take part in the discussion –and next IC
Raffaella – until this last point ok for you - transitional year is ok - the 4 groups finance memory website – reorganization - support of secretariat – we agree
1h11mn (global square person) Good to be more ambitious .. IC as open as possible based on charter open - social network competing facebook video conference this would be very important people base -
Rafaella – this is part of the content of the working group
1h13mn video - força syndical brazil - we participated in many councils – we asked to be in IC -
[12:48:50] chico – all demands including this one are sent by secretariat to be sent in the list 72 h for on the list - IC – those yes ok those no a rediscussed in next IC
1h15mn - Next IC 1h15 – transitional year – four working groups on finance - one on memory and website one on transitional support - one on reorganization of IC - consultation - and to produce a document with concrete proposal before the next IC - base of discussion in next IC
Discussion about opening of the IC - but concerning the pending application proposal is to circulate- are part of the discussion of opening IC
(1h18mn )Damien – I have no veto right – not UN – CUT IPF agree I recognize exceptional contribution of organization willing to get in IC - we have another proposal – take the decision in next IC not in 72h - if you want to impose your decision it is not a consensus – what your are proposing is not contribution to reorganization process
(global square) [12:57:45] judith - directing to global square person - it is the duty of those working group to make sure they work include people like you and that consultation includes your contribution in the working group
Rafaella - he is right - it is a contradiction between us - I agree we have only this remaining application - I receive this proposal frm the debate point of mediation - pending organization can be invited in the next IC as observers and then we decide in the
[12:58:35] Rafaella - in the next IC we decide ( compromise)
Salete – (1h24mn) some organization pending are observers a long time -
Raffaella – they can be invited and in the next IC we see
(1h27) Making working groups
Coordinate with Jason -
Support secretariat contact ala or Hamouda
Reorganization - who want to be part raise hand– remains in the room after conclusion of meeting
One minute each (interpreters want to finish now ) We go without translation thanking interpreters
Damien – we made the proposal* about Salvador de Bahia - and july can be discussed by brazilian organization and reorganization group - finance july is high season if not july September October - brazil -then july or bahia
(1h31) Piero – if there will be a proposal – will ask the Greek to have next IC in Greece in October- if we do not decide n ow we give this possibility unless the Greek rules out -
Ppoulos support piero - I want to support Athens will be there in Greece in ten days – as soon as possible
Messaoud - he says he will see with the Greeks
Ouattara – si ils sont d’accord after brasil
[13:10:07] Annie - meeting late 3rd week of june many movement meet in Athens european social movements – a moment to catch and send a delegation - a team
(1h37mn) Rafaela - point of clarification greek wind assembly already discussed this and goes round in circles - disseminate plan f action to support Greece - the if we want to explore in addition to seminar possibility of organizing an IC - have a big solidarity event october November - now we need an IC after summer
Moema - take both proposition brazil and Greece and secretariat together with Greece Brazilian and working groups - secretariat in consultation defines and proposes in IC -
Francisco many events September to December take this in account
Messaoud - We finish ! thank you very much for being here taking this challenge for Tunisia - long for the WSF - thank everybody – those young people who worked hard
1h43mn – Rafaella - on behalf – we thank you for this long journey to democracy - th the ey are standing behing us since yesterday – the choucha refuges – in the desert - without international convention - [13:17:05] they are here remembering us this scandal
1h44 song dedicated to people of choucha - we are two we are three we are ……
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4geFPmkN7I
(1h 46mn)