• pfsm22 reunion 26junio21 com1 en

Wiki modificadas recientemente July 30, 2021 por facilitfsm



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 IC WSF & FGMX MEETING JUNE 26 IC-WSF experience 3 - com1 

Comments from Pierre

video    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ih3EucehNQ

 Each intervention can be referenced to a number and in it are numbered highlighted parts   Example @ 005-2 

In italics there are links that illustrate the notions or sites that are mentioned,
from the documentation available at  https://join.wsf2021.net/   or at  http://openfsm.net/    or on other sites

@ Presentations -

@ Agenda 

@1  rose -  @2  felix - 

C = comment in blue, after the intervention  

T = input made in the chat 

@part 1 comments of a synthesis of the discussion of June 12  

 @3 daniela / synthesis - @5 valentina - @6 Leo C -  @7 felix C- @8 Rosa C- @9 Carmen C - @10 Rosa C - @ 11 Carlos T - @12 Pierre - @13 Raul C - @14 Felix C - @15 Rosa - @16 Pierre T - @17 Martin C - @18 Hamouda C- @19 Risa - @20 Leo C- @21 Guadalupe C - @22 Oscar - @23 Pierre T - @24 Rosa - @25 Ricardo C- @26Felix agreed C-  @27 Rosa C

@Part 2 comments to the charter of WSF principles  

@27B Rosa - @28 Martin C - @29 Leo C- @30 Pierre T - @31  Armando TC -  @32 Pierre T- @ 33 Pierre T - @34   Martin - @35 Guadalupe - @36A Hector C - @36 Oscar  @37 Pierre T- @38 Felix - @39 Mario - @40 Rosa - @41   Liege - @42 Rosa - @43 Armando C - @44   Pierre T - @45   Pedro - @46 Hamouda C - @47 Ivette C -@48 Damien C - @49 Rosa C- @50   Pierre TC - @51 Felix - @ 52 Rosa - @53 Oscar C - @54 Martin C - @55 Guadalupe T - @56 Pierre T - @57 Rosa - @58 Pierre - @59 Martin C - @60 Felix - @61 Daniela C - @62 Oscar - @63 Rosa- @64 Rosa

@in the chat

Download the doc / (automatic translation to be revised links to be reedited to english)


MEETING MAY 22 transcription http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-22mayo21-en


MEETING MAY 29 transcription   http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-29mayo21-en 

 

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@001 - 30mn 

Rosa Today's agenda 

Good morning, welcome, I do not know if someone else failed to introduce themselves, I think I do not know someone else please because they write it in the chat.

Almost all of us have already seen each other before, I am Rosu Mexican, currently I am the coordinator of the Council of Popular Education of Latin America and the Caribbean I am also part of the World Social Council the representative of Ceaal in this space and well we are present in 21 countries, because here with the best disposition to build this process towards the World Social Forum in Mexico. 

Welcome, what a pleasure you could come, that we have more people, right now we are 44 people with the presence of fellow interpreters who are supporting us for Interpretation French Spanish English Portuguese. 

Hamuda has not arrived, let's see if he arrives later.

And well, today's agenda, a little to finish closing what was pending from the last session on June 12, make a return there Carmen Daniela and I , they studied they have made progress in the synthesis, and there they I would ask Daniela to share it with us to pick it up. 


Today's agenda: 

This will be the meeting agenda: 

1) Return of the synthesis of the groups. (The commission shares)

2) Questions about the WSF Charter of Principles. 

3) Creation of minimum Commissions.


There are quite a few tasks and challenges , some of which are specific to the International Council, others of competence for everyone, and others are tasks that we have to assume as a Mexican facilitating group, that would be the first point.

The second point would be ,, they know that we sent them all the charter of principles, a link to the charter and the idea was to read it, to see if they have any doubts, questions about it,


And see if there, Martín proposed that we make some minimum commissions of things that came out there

There I am going to ask Daniela if she wants to share or add to the synthesis that was prepared, and we are going to see her comments and reactions.

 

Daniela: of course, Rosi.

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@002 Felix 

Only on the agenda, and a little to give life to the agreements that we had in the first meetings, and I would say that @ 1 the first point of establishing the Coordination and Agreements Table


And above all that at the end of the agenda, we review the agreements we make and that the draft of the following agenda be designed. 

I think that is a bit bureaucratic, but if it is giving more existence to our work, it was to remember those agreements. Thank you. 


Rosa Okay if we could set up the table, who would like to be in the moderation part, to take notes of the agreements? whose ? Does anyone propose?


Leo: I propose to Felix.


Felix: in making agreements, not in coordinating, because I am moving in the course of the meeting from one place to another, and the Internet is not going to fail me. Instead, the agreements if I can take them, and at the end read them to see if they are indeed them. Thank you.


Rose ; Martin, would you like to moderate, with these points?


Martin: Well, I'm not going to be completely there, I would be an hour and a half more or less, and I don't know if I could. But for the other one, now I would sign up because I'm moving too.


Rose ; Well Felix, you make the agreement, maybe someone can help to take care of the times, and I can take care of the teams here if everyone agrees.

 

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@003 35mn 

Daniela, if I am going to share it, colleagues and colleagues, the synthesis and I am going to read it, okay?


view a version of this document contextualized with the June 12 transcript 

There is also a lexicon for this transcript


SOME CRITICAL POINTS REGARDING THE CURRENT CONTEXT AND THE WSF:

- The WSF is self-organized, those who feel self-convoked attend, it is a meeting place.

- The WSF does not need an International Council, it has to update itself, renew its dynamics and include more young people, in this sense the WSF has to democratize.

- The GF must find its own path, its objectives, it has to organize itself.

- The Mexican and international GF have the challenge of involving various social and popular movements of the world and intellectuals, to reflect on world problems to share, think and design the necessary and urgent alternatives.

- Find the strategies that allow us to articulate with the movements of Asia, Africa, Europe.

- What we communicate and the way we communicate it from the WSF must be reviewed.

 

SYNTHESIS OF THE TEAMS "CHALLENGES HEADING TO THE WSF IN MEXICO".

Team 1: 

- There are different groups, diversity is part of the wealth of the WSF.

- Future towards the organization, distribute tasks in different committees.

- Make visible the local and global, as well as the various movements.

Team 2.

- That the WSF be permanent, in which it can be debated from various activities and events in the next 10 months, around issues that mobilize us and problems that we live

- Invite more organizations, to encourage participation.

Team 3.

- Unite the diverse social movements of Peace, Ecological, around an alternative of the construction of the State.

- Promote and follow the example of countries in which great struggles are taking place for a constituent: Chile, Colombia

- The WSF as a global actor, with the ability to influence the different processes.

Team 4.

- Nurture the WSF with Feminist, Anti-racist Movements

- Assemble a team of interpreters including Swahili

- Integrate more social movements in the world.

Team 5.

- Balance between IC and GF - More horizontal

- Involve the entire IC for mobilization

- Make it a mixed WSF. See what is required to carry it out in person and online.

- That the WSF is a process. These meetings are part of the process.

- Review the charter of principles, a commission could be formed

- Define objectives and prioritize them. There are some defined axes, but it will be necessary

Team 6.

- The WSF as a space for meeting and proposals against neoliberalism at the world level. Maintain the libertarian spirit.

- In Mexico there are different rearrangements in the Government, we must discuss the type of future we want. Reflect on what types of accommodations are necessary. What kind of state do we want in neoliberal times?

- Re-accommodate the debate.

- The WSF carries out self-organized activities, in which articulation for action is generated. How to strengthen the networks to strengthen the WSF?

- Starting from below, with the leading role of the peoples.

- We live in governments with authoritarian overtones and we will have to see how to deal with them.

Team 7.

- Take advantage of a Mixed Forum - the virtual from Digital Sovereignty, facilitate with simpler registration procedures that allow people to integrate, through more effective communication.

- A permanent process of construction, in the form of solidarity bonds in the face of the onslaught of transnationals, fascist, genocidal and patriarchal, this should be part of the objectives we seek together.

- Give space to collective participation, to workers in art, culture and communication.

- Unity for those of us who are participating in the WSF, a space for the objectives that we jointly seek to be heard and respected. Fight together. The challenges ahead are much stronger and overtake us, like the pandemic.

- Invite those who have had previous experiences to participate in the GF. Open participation to other people who are not from Mexico.

- All latitudes are in tune. It is perceived that there is a vision in which America must promote concrete actions, but we do not see them elsewhere.

- Reduce the technological gap. Open knowledge and have these skills.

 

THE CLOSING COLLECTIVE REFLECTION.

- Take up and tie up what came out today and deepen it more. (sessions to discuss the objectives, invite the intellectuals).

- Give continuity to the points of reflection. (Return to the Agora of Futures).

- Tasks: reporting of the tables, generating a more organizational form with minimal commissions. The FG read the charter of principles and comment.

- In Salvador Bahía: there was a reflection that lasted three months around the WSF that we wanted, from which the axes were defined, then various meetings were held with various organizations - do it in a planned way, but keep it open . Integrate the artists.

- The form of the mixed event - make a more elaborate construction - notion of face-to-face event - remote participation. See the various forms of participation-

- Review of principles and objectives - talk about property and democracy - private property. Constitutional revisions, when talking about the principles of the Charter, what has to do with Property, and what can be raised with an issue like this.

 Document prepared by the Synthesis Commission


42mn

Daniela Well, this would be the synthesis, companions and companions, and companion Rosi shared it in the WSF group that we also have on telegram

On the notion of "synthesis" see interventions @007 @008 @009 @012 and @027

 

@004 Rosa I don't remember if I sent it out there, but right now we upload it

I don't know, just from here, you can see that there are several tasks: some of the forum, others of the facilitating group that we have to take up again, to work on the objectives, especially the commissions that we have here, and others have to do with mobilization International, what is a task that I think we have to do between the facilitating group, the IC, and other movements.

 So, I don't know if anyone would like to comment on it, a small round of comments, if they see that there is something that we lacked, and we share it at this moment Valentina?

 

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  1. Comments on the synthesis

@005 Valentina 

At first, there was talk of including more youth and it was said to "democratize", I think that the word that sometimes we do not like is "renew", right? Seriously age (age), renew or put new voices , because democratize not always because young people, obey a character, if not there rather what was being pointed out, is to renew, that is, a generational issue , there I I would put it to renew it was more that point, right?

At point 2 I am interested in participating, although it was very long, and after you send us the synthesis, I would like to participate in point number 2. Thank you only.

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@006 44mn Leo: There are some questions and also some suggestions, 

@1 One question is if, as I don't know which group says, the International Council is dispensed with, how is it going to be organized and within what framework is the international process? 

@2 Because if the WSF is rightly said that it is not only a series of events, but is a process, it is necessary to organize this process , and perhaps set a general agenda, at least also a date, etc., so that it can be can converge to discuss and decide on what to do. 

@3 Second thing that does not seem to me that there is much talk (in this synthesis) of being not only a space of convergence, several times we have said that it should be a space for deliberation and joint action, and this is not reflected in that draft , which is a novelty. 

@4 Third, when we talk about democracy, there are mechanisms that we have to establish, that there is still not much on paper about this, about what forms this democracy should have, that really guarantees the participation of everyone, 

That as for the internal

@5 but of equal importance, and perhaps even more important, is the fight for democracy in our respective countries , starting with a legal framework that has to be reformed. One of the things that is being discussed a lot at this time, in all parts of the world, perhaps the one with the greatest consensus, is the processes of constitutional renewal, in the form of constituent assemblies, 

If we see in Chile, if we see in Colombia, I have just been with a delegation from Honduras right now; very optimistic that they are going to win the next elections, who knows? but one of the first things is this, and also in Mexico, after the elections, there is a strong inclination towards this idea that for years, is that, Not to mention the Middle East at all, I do not want to expand at this time, but if it is necessary to take not only the issues inwards, who are we and how do we organize ourselves? 

@6 But the outward projection and there the question arises and with that I end, to what kind of convergence , towards where are we planning our strategies? Not in abstract terms, what is the most important or what is the least important, but rather what is the consensus for a global mobilization. 

@7 The WSF is a global entity, so there it is necessary to discuss at what moment to give priority, to what type of issues and to discuss around this, to remain in a joint/articulated action , in response to the great evils produced by the organisms rulers around the world.


Observation on point @006-1 : Leo reacts to the formulation in the synthesis " The WSF does not need an International Council,"  

This reflects point 7 of Francine's intervention on June 12, @010 made on behalf of the "renovating group" (of which Leo is part). intervention that by the way is not consensus in the IC 

A / The organization framework of the international process towards event 2022 has been briefly addressed at the IC meeting of April 24, the transcription of which is available here http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended/online-202104-extension2-en (see interventions @033 to @046) - role of the IC, role of a possible international facilitating group

B / A formulation that has been used over the years is that the IC is “jointly responsible” for the construction of a WSF forum with the facilitating collective . And a dialogue is maintained between the facilitating group and the IC regarding important options and the methodological accumulation of practical experience.

C / In the practice of the member person / organizations, this “co-responsibility” corresponds to highly variable situations and not all of them satisfactory. There are IC member organizations that do not even do one activity at the event, others that do several, and are ambitious in terms of political articulation between organizations, others that do contribute to the linking / mobilization of movements to participate in the process / event, others that are proactive in implementing the operation of the communication or the methodology…. 

D / The IC remains problematic in the sense that there is currently no consensus on a reformulation of its role and its tasks in the WSF process, which in coherence with the principles would be to be a “facilitating community” and serenely assume the tasks described in IC casablanca 2013 , http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/casa13-wsfic-tasks-tareas-taches-cifsm/#EN
 

E / Among the tasks is to disseminate and explain "objectively" the principles, experiences and practices, which we are supposed to be doing in these "precedence" meetings

How can IC interventions be objective? 

Presenting two elements in any matter that comes under discussion 

1 the consensus formulation recognized as “current” (due to general adherence or lack of capacity to define a new consensus formulation); a IC facilitating community and not a IC political body, which supports the development of the process according to the vision given in the charter of principles and then 

2 / the opinion of the person or the organization they represent that may be complementary or divergent from 1

------

Observation on point @006-3 & 5 

As Hamouda recalls on June 12 @014-2 there has been no deliberation by the IC so far on the aspect of principles, which can be seen in person at WSF 2022

In the charter of principles currently in force, by consensus or by consent in the IC: according to principle 1, the formulation “the WSF is a meeting space”.

Therefore, it is realistic to maintain, for the practical perspective of the Mexican facilitating collective WSF 2022, to privilege in a non-decisive synthetic document the expression WSF is a space for encounters, and nothing else 

    

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@007 50mn 

Félix: Only in this task that I have had to deal with which agreements are falling on each point, @1 I would like to emphasize that the meaning of this point on the agenda, fundamentally is to provide inputs , so we are having the inputs that were built in previous sessions, 

But, therefore, @2 is not going to require, let's say specific agreements on what we impose on ourselves here

but I think so, as a process of collective knowledge construction, and given the interesting effort that was made to document and share this material here, with what Pierre @3 has done, that the suggestions or comments that are being made right now to expand or clarify, they will be sent to those who prepared the synthesis note so that they could expand, or go there as footnotes,

So that these meetings like the one we are talking about right now, do not just become brainstorming, but if they are taking steps of collective construction, so that, even when a later proposal is presented,

@4 would it be very desirable to say no ?: “as recommended in this session (on June 26) we are proposing this”, I think that this can give more consistency to this collective work effort,

And, synthesizing, when I write the agreements, one would be because @5 the report was received and that there were additions of extensions, and it was agreed that they will be sent to authors of the (synthesis) note, so that they include them in it . I don't know if we would agree that that would be mostly the deal at this point?

Observation on point @007-4 & 5  the fact of providing synthetic inputs and invites us to make the relationship between this synthesis and the contents it synthesizes easy. 

It remains to clarify who like when they offer to support the synthesis and the memory a see the observations in point @027

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@008 Rosy: 

If I agree Felix, I think we are here too @1 from reading the synthesis, bringing some additions, adjustments that we can include in the note, 

And above all I think that as Leo says, I would still sign up there, to take up what Leo says,

@2 Obviously, I believe there are tasks that arise from these reflections that we have had in the past days , regarding: 

How we, as a Mexican facilitating group, but also as parts of the WSF, generate these processes of debates , about the reality that our peoples live, because we cannot just be, ....

@3 I think one level is whether to prepare everything that has to do with the forum, 

@4 But also, what do we do in the face of this overwhelming reality that happens in the different peoples of the world? 

And that, that is the deep meaning of the birth of the forum, of how we unite the struggles, the demands, and activate the solidarity, not only in terms of words, but of concrete action , that is, what are we going to do before this or that thing,? 

And also, something that emerges from the work we had last time, well it will be up to us as a Mexican facilitating group to do it, 

And if now there are members of some unions in this room, I think that if we still lack a youth movement, 

But I think that we have the task of convening, or as Sara said to the feminist movement, @5 to start doing, in a self-organized way, that call, that is, we feel that this process of construction is ours, 

That we have the task of summoning more, and then doing it in a little way by sharing both the videos, the synthesis notes or the documents that are being produced, so that they are soaked in the deep sense of what the WSF means, 

@6 And the historical task we have of assuming ourselves as political subjects of our history , and deciding what we are going to do about what is happening,

And not only waiting for the blows and reacting, but how we organize ourselves for this onslaught of the savage capitalism that we live in our territories , of the fascism that we live or the fascist governments that we live in the different territories, or all the injustices that we live in our territories. peoples, then I think that is a task that we have ahead.

 

Observation on @008

Here in this intervention it would be useful to clarify point by point who is the "we"? The intervention mentions several possibilities - it is an illustration of the relevance of distinguishing participation and facilitation (see point @012-8) 

 1 / from participation; it is the organizations present at the meeting, as participants in the WSF, or of a facilitating group, or of the IC. In this case they can be articulated 

A / in specific pronouncements on occasions of meetings of the IC or the facilitating collective that can be seen here , http://openfsm.net/projects/icmembers-declarations
 

B or on the occasion of activities or assemblies by publishing statements made in the virtual WSFthrough the site https://join.wsf2021.net/ , such as the declaration of this assembly of peace and ecology movements https://join.wsf2021.net/initiatives/13998 

2 / from the facilitation; Are they the facilitating collective or the IC "as such?" In this case, there are differences here about the fact that these facilitating entities make political texts that are not linked to their tasks of collective construction of the event space WSF 2022 process (tasks that do involve the mobilization invitation part, the production of texts that propose a generic political narrative of participation in the 2022 process - see Hamouda and Damien 

 3 / they are all the participants to come in the forum?

Observation on @008-6 :

@008- 6 “Assuming ourselves as historical subjects” using the forum space as a tool to articulate and create powerful articulations “bells” as Ricardo @006 says

This does not imply that "the forum" is a collective actor; a global subject and that these campaigns are on behalf of the forum @025 

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@009 Carmen: 

Just reinforcing a little what you said Rosy, and the part that Felix just mentioned about the synthesis, there was a complete synthesis to explain a little more to Felix and all the companions, that @1 a transcription of all the participations that took place in the previous sessions was made , and from there a mini summary was generated, 

So it is important to share, it seems to me, the complete transcript, so that you can see that maybe there were things that were not included in the mini summary, but that they have the information of everything that has been discussed, 

@2 and it is fair to create a commission that is responsible for making the additions (to the sintesis) , but that they see that the transcription and everything that has been discussed in other meetings has been done in a verbatim way, as colleagues have participated. I am going to share this document with you so that you have the complete information.

O BSERVATION on 008-1 @007 and @ y @009 : the synthesis is collecting expressions and not deliberative, do not need to be internally consistent and may reflect divergent views together. 

At the same time, it is succinct and a criterion in its complementation through the June 26 discussion may be to collect content that seems less controversial and of greater consensus, without being considered a decisive document. Presence or absence of expressions in this synthesis cannot be arguments of authority in the dialogue processes from these 3 previous meetings 

For this reason it is important that this synthesis be related to the contents not included in the synthesis Hence the interest 

1 / to make a lexicon of the transcription of these “precedence” meetings from words that were used in the interventions http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-lexico-en
 

2 / to be able to contextualize the words used in the synthesis document http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-sintesis-desde-gfmx-en
 

3 / to be able to detect manifest absence of expressions in the synthesis xx

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Rosa Anyone else would like to add something to these notes, which is very rich because the process nourishes us?

@010 56mn 

Paula: I would like to add that I consider it very important @1 that the forum be made visible, well, at the Mexican level and at the international level, because many do not know about the existence of this forum, 

As well as in the same situations that are occurring, that the forum pronounce itself in the situations that occur, both nationally and internationally, 

@2 For example: what is of girls, boys and adolescents is not mentioned , in my state I am working from my trench, in the defense of these rights, but at the national level much is omitted, imagine you at the international level, 

I think that it is time to make visible the position of the forum towards these violations of human rights, both nationally and internationally, because this occurs at the international level, so it is a point that I consider very important to be taken into account and to appear, right , @3 among the actions that the forum must have, there should be an education "table" . Thanks. 


Observation on @010

The word “table” is not part of the current methodological vocabulary of the forum, in which we talk about activities, assemblies, (both self-organized), 

In the virtual forum, there was also talk of “panels” https://join.wsf2021.net/panel-activities (which received a privileged visibility and were self-organized from groups initially formed from the facilitating collective according to the structure of axes thematic defined by the group https://wsf2021.net/espacios-tematicos/ 


@011 From Carlos in chat: 09:18 PM

Prezad @s companheir@s, we are participating - this same hour - of the General Assembly of the WSFJD World Social Forum Justiça e Democracia . I will try to attend a video of this meeting. I will be connected here, enquanto for possível, but accompanying the debates in a limited way. Abraços e bom found.

 

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@012 57mn

Pierre: Well, I appreciate what Carmen @009 has said about the interest in making the transcripts, because I remember that @1 this session of May 22, May 29, June 12 and until today, they are sessions focused on attempting to share experiences from the international council, and to stimulate preliminary reflections of the people, in the facilitating group Mexico, that many do not have a developed knowledge of what the forum is.

So, that's what we are at, @2 I understood that the discussion items on June 12 present in the synthesis were not decisive in any way.


And it is that after the group is organized, it will have a decision protocol, to define elements to move forward.

@3 So all the tracks that are synthesized, and that can be worked on more through transcription, are tracks for dialogue, to face challenges, questions etc; without having immediate answers, right?


Then I share again the link of the transcript in the chat, 

And it seems to me that you have to go cautiously in the paths of dialogues, identify the points


@4 I have heard many "whats", and this is normal, because we are at the beginning, and few "hows", 

So these "hows" also have to do with the entire experience of the forum, and you have to absorb this experience .


@5 In the transcript that I proposed for June 12, I did not comment, but I put links to things that have existed, or do exist, documentation, passing information. 


@6 Then they can be done, that transcription or synthesis can be the subject of comments; more so focused where each one can gives his opinion according to the vision he/she has.


@7 And then problems and decisions will be made, whether in committees or in the plenary of the group, the organization is still not very clear about how the decisions will be taken. 


@8 Just to finish, and I think that it is necessary to maintain a clear distinction between the fact of "participating in the forum space", and the fact of "being part of a facilitating collective", 

In other words, the facilitating group must find ways to implement a vision of the WSF process, in a concrete way, in a concrete context, 


While, as participants, we are all "participating organizations", which are autonomous political actors , and precisely the forum space allows us to articulate, freely, without the intervention of third parties). 


@9 But they are two different roles, and you have to be aware and be able to distinguish when one says something “as a facilitation issue”, which is governed by collective decisions made according to the decision protocol agreed upon by the facilitating collective , or when one says something "in a issue of participation" , making political agreements with other organizations and so on. 

It seems to me an interesting "north" ( compass image) to take into account.


see Observation in point 008


Pierre in chat 09 22

@10 Here the transcript of the exchanges of the "precedence - experience transfer" meeting of June 12 http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-en allows to identify dialogue tracks with informative links.


There is a translation into English http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio2-en and into French http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-fr that allow people who do not understand Spanish soak up what is said in these meetings


@11 The salient points, that can be commented on, are highlighted and numbered in each intervention: @ 009-2 = highlight 2 of the intervention 009


@12 One can search for words in this text http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21 web page ( or the version with comment1 here http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-com1-en with the search by browser page (access menu three dots in the upper right corner of the page, for example : "permanent" "mixed" "articulation" etc - and see the different facets in which they were used

This is the object of the Lexicon document http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-lexico-en 

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Rosa / Thank you Pierre. We continue with Raul


@013 Raul It is the first meeting I attend. I am a member of the union of the government high schools in the city 'supiems' and well, he has hardly been elected as secretary of external relations. For this reason, I am joining these types of meetings.


 I want to comment nothing else, maybe I'm wrong because it is the first meeting I attend, but I think it would be important @1 to establish meetings thematic as well as sectoral and regional to promote the Social Forum, the organization of the World Social Forum, and that of Each of these meetings, could come up what we want to answer "for what is the world social forum?" 


The charter of principle gives a generic answer to this question "for what? - see the principle first The World Social Forum is an open space for meeting to: intensify reflection, carry out a democratic debate of ideas, elaborate proposals, establish a free exchange of experiences and articulate effective actions on the part of organizations and movements of civil society that… .. ( https://wsf2021.net/fsm2021/340-2/ or http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en)


That is why the importance of the relevance of doing it and how to achieve this is mentioned in this meeting and above all the articulation, which is a fundamental part of this type of effort @2 The articulation not only at the national level, but also at the international level, in all sectors and areas.


@3 And this is not an easy subject, and we know this, there is even the motto in many organizations here in Mexico of "Not one more isolated struggle", but it is just a motto, it is very difficult to really articulate, because to fragment the struggles for protagonism and another series of internal problems, 

And I think that instead of coming together, we become more and more divided , organizations that were very large later fragment and confront each other, 


So then, it is an issue that must be studied and this articulation achieved, and I believe that these meetings could be held at the regional, sectoral and thematic levels as well, as they could strengthen the organization of the forum. This would be my participation. Thank you. 


Observation point @013-3 

As regards this facilitating group, the risk of fragmentation is also strong, and a demanding practice of a decision protocol by consensus / consent for decisions that have to do with the tasks of the facilitating group is a way of resisting to "fragmentation" 

(See concerns expressed in the transcript of June 12 @028-4 & 8 and see below several interventions in the sense of deciding by simple or qualified majorities which will favor fragmentation, minorities in the facilitating group if they are large enough being able to decide to secede and build different dynamics

( @031-2, @036-3, @043-8, @048-6, @053-4)

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Rosa Thank you very much Raúl for your contributions, they are very important. Now we continue with Félix.


@014 1h03mn

Felix

There is something I would like to emphasize about what appeared in the notes we have just read, there are two aspects, 

I would say that @1 is conception, that the World Social Forum is increasingly a process, and not a series of big events, we are achieving it on practice


Because if we see which of the proposals that were made are not designed only in the great moment that we meet in 2022 for a week , and that everything we are doing right now is based on what is going to happen or what we are going to achieve, 


@2 Rather, a whole series of initiatives and shared experiences or hopes are already emerging, which, as Pierre says, must be clearly separated, separated, not excluded, what he is being made preparatory to the moment of the year and a half in Mexico, let it be like a "synthesis event" , but all that we can advance in what gives reason for being to the World Social Forum.


@3 I want to highlight because almost a year ago we discussed a lot about the process, and now it is becoming more of a reality, at least in the proposals , just as the person who preceded me just presented.

 

That I wanted to highlight, right, the movement is demonstrated by walking and we are making the forum more and more a process, and well that gives me great satisfaction in my case of the reason that our organization has had to participate in this facilitating group. 

Thanks Rosy. 


Observation on point @014-2 


A / Pierre insisted in @012 on the clear distinction between facilitating and participating, a distinction of purposes


B / One can also make the temporal distinction that Felix makes between a / a pre-event preparatory period, building articulation processes that may or may not have some culminations in the event. b / the mixed event period (which can be imagined in different ways: only one face-to-face week + extension in CDMX or three moments of a week, two virtual + local before and after a face-to-face moment + extension in CDMX, according to the suggestion made in the input of May 22 on the extension of the forums, 

http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-insumo6-en )

 

c / a post-event period , towards a next manifestation of the global WSF process that is in charge of another facilitating group

At the moment, we are in an ambiguous period: post-event WSF 2021 that no facilitating group cares for or pre-event WSF 2022 that this Mexican group is slowly preparing to take care of. 

This interim period could be taken care of by an international facilitating group in the perspective of the mixed event (see first exchanges on this possible facilitating group http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended/online-202104-extension2-en interventions @033 a @046


Observation on point @014-3 

As Ian mentioned in his text read last June 12 point @013 of IAn of the transcript, and as stressed by the group 6 @025 

There are tools available after the 2021 virtual social forum that allow to visualize acts of participation in a more continuous process  ( see https://join.wsf2021.net/ y https://wsf2021.net/proceso2021-info1/)

Here is the list of participating organizations currently visible from Mexico that can be self-completed by organizations participating in the facilitating group

https://join.wsf2021.net/?q=%2Forganizations&display_name=&country=1140

 see also @016

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@015 Rosa

Thank you very much Felix. I did want to comment on several things.

One is that while I'm talking, if someone else signs up to be trying to finish at 9:30 in Mexico and move on to the next point.


One thing I would like to point out, I totally agree that what Felix points out, I believe in practice we are making the different connections, 


@1 But also as Raúl points out, @013 I believe that it is a task that we have to do on how to organize these sectoral and regional thematic reflections, both as a facilitating group, and as those of us who are part of the facilitating Council of the World Social Forum 

In this sense, it seems to us that it is essential to articulate ourselves to the different struggles and movements that are already happening.


@2 For example, this event that is being organizing, shared by Melissa de Cleta unam del Cervantino

How from this, we summon the artists of Mexico, other artists, I do not know if it will be virtual or face-to-face, 

There are colleagues from Brazil who tell me "Rosa, I am a hiphopera, connect me with young hiphopera from Mexico."

I think we have to go on doing that task


@3 And I think a task here is that the facilitating group needs to self-convene an assembly ,

Because although we made a parenthesis, if you remember, to say that we need to know the history of the World Social Forum, how things are moving, how they are giving, 


We are also looking inward, not to stay there, but how to organize? what commissions are we going to make? how are we going to articulate? 


We already have contact with the International Council; and Tiburcio who puts in the chat @011 I am right now in the seminar of the Social Forum of Justice and Democracy. 


@4 Well then, how are we communicating, from the spaces that are happening, in which we get involved, we communicate, due to the nature of the action we carry out. 


The South-South seminar is being held in Asia, where a series of debates are being organized that began this week that we are concluding, 

And these meetings are very early, they are at 7 in Mexico, due to the Chinese or Indian times, so next Monday we will be moderating a table

So how from these small spaces, we are reconnecting and mobilizing


link to the SSFS8 event in the events calendar http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2021-calendar/#lista 


@5 I was last week to meet the invited of the feminist confluence also to say how women are organizing ourselves, internally


Web elements about organizations that have the word “feminist” in join.wsf2021.net WSF 2021 https://join.wsf2021.net/?q=%2Forganizations&display_name=feminist&country=All 


And I believe that the movement is taking place, and we have a task of ..., an agreeme60 and @ 63


@6 And then the International Council, we would also have to meet. How we are seeing ourselves, how we can contribute to everything that is happening, and here doing the collective dialogues. 

Well it will be my contribution Martín forward.

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@016 Pierre in chat: 09:26 PM

Here sharing the current status of a WSF calendar of events at the international level http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2021-calendar/#lista event = a manifestation in the WSF process of some size (with several activities in general) the list will be expanded.

Rosy: 09:27 PM

Thanks Pierre.


Pierre in the chat: 09:26 PM.

As was said at the June 12 meeting, we have tools that allow us to become visible in the forum process from now on ( with organizations , activities and initiatives of action https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations - international mobilization and in Mexico can be reflected here:

list of organizations from Mexico https://join.wsf2021.net/?q=%2Forganizations&display_name=&country=1140 and can be viewed for each country


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@017 1h08m 

Martin. fast to move on to the other point. I think we are doing well. I mean if I feel something positive in how we are doing 

@1 I think we are operating "as a forum", we are working "as a forum" , we must recognize each other in this sense, not despair. 


Because at the end of the day, the appointments of the tables, rooms, how we distribute ourselves, is reflecting from the charter of the principles of the forum, to what I would place in three levels: 


@2 1 / the problem that Rosi just said, about how we are connecting, how we are going to arm ourselves in a network, how we can relate, and this I return from Raúl, @013 that welcome to these works, how we will be able to communicate , inform, towards the citizens, the people, all the work that we are doing 



@3 And there I think that starting with what Pierre @012-4 says about how; in order to; as if it were a descriptive letter to the hows, 


Here is a succinct presentation of a table of what to how with column of what (principles in this case) and column of hows http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en-table3 )


@4 If it would be important, and I also return to the colleague Carmen @009 who says there are the transcripts, 

I do not know if it would be a reservoir, I do not know if it would be the page or it would be in a blog, but it is not worth having a plan with all the information that is being generated in the sessions, from minutes.


In the experience of the attempted mexico facilitating committee 2019-2020, here is a documentation of the type that Martin talks about with meetings of commissions, assemblies, specific inputs- http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm20/pfsm20index/#reuniones 

Perhaps this can be done by a group documenting the work of the collective using a part of the site wsf2021.net https://wsf2021.net/ from a group of documentation that was mentioned in @009


@5 From, for example, the calendar of some events , which may be international, to continue soaking up, as a facilitating group, with this that you have just summarized. Maybe minutes of these events, and that this information stays there, so that it is accessible to whoever joins, on the one hand, and also the results of the tables, and everything that is given, right?

IC meetings are documented here http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended  

From, for example, the list of this WSF event calendar http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2021-calendar/#lista in each of the events there is the possibility of reaching the activities that are accessible; (The word "table" is not used , but the most generic word of "activity") the information that circulates in the group's telegram group etc ??


The other point, the subject that the companion is raising about thematic, the companion that is raising the issue of rights of the childhood of adolescence @010 and they are already thematic, and in this sense if we continue stirring a bit, that right now we are more a little the methodological, logistical, conceptual, with the thematic and that is not too much. 


The thematic axes are defined in the facilitating group or by consultation case WSF virtual  https://wsf2021.net/espacios-tematicos/   


@6 In this sense, I think we can ratify that we are doing well in this sense, the issues will come out, examples of issues will come up,

 

@7 And more will come out when we get to the WSF charter

In this sense, I believe that we must not despair, but go to the best accommodating since we are doing, and then prepare a meeting, to the best already in person, if possible, because times run, for the month of August I would be thinking 


@8 And see, and go to this meeting with something more processed, more systematized, maybe give an among the themes, but already seeing. 

In relation to lexicons and transcripts see @027


@9 Now about the groups, and I'm now going to the organizational part , the groups that are generated can be temporary, and then others that are longer, with longer work, all depending on the capacity we have in our groups and organizations, 

and in the case of some of us, free time, because you have to go find the chop in a pandemic and crisis situation and it is very complicated.

In this sense I would leave it, change and I can, we are fine, I think we are doing well, we do not despair. Thank you change. 


Observation @017-7 

The relationship between topics and WSF charter is not direct .


A / The charter proposes a description of generic action goal values ​​of organizations participating in the forum, and it is true that this description is 20 years old, but it can be considered that it fulfills its role of broad ideological location.

see observation @047 


B / The thematic axes, in a limited number (ten?), Are defined by the facilitating group with feedback from the IC. They announce a broad categorization of the activities to come. 

In the virtual forum participation site an activity can be placed by its organizers in up to 3 thematic axes see the right column thematic spaces at https://join.wsf2021.net/activities 

WSF 2016 montreal 12 axes / themes https://fsm2016.org/en/sinformer/axes-thematiques-2016/ 

WSF 018 salvador 18 axes / themes https://wsf2018.org/en/todos-os-temas/

WSF 2021 virtual 8 axes / themes https://wsf2021.net/espacios-tematicos/ 


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Rosa: Thank you Martín, thank you for your contribution. Find us already live when possible Hamouda?


@018 Hamouda

I'm only getting two points.

The first point is about the forum itself: the May dates.


@1 We must have a call, an international call, as a friend of the Union said, they must have a call, a strong one, to spread it around the world in our organizations around the world, to mobilize people for the Forum in Mexico.

 

@2 And this call must have a political meaning, a political content, to mobilize people to come to Mexico from the unions, from the movements of the climate problem, from the women, from the youth, from everyone. Everyone should feel part of the construction of this forum.

If we still have only the discussion and we are trying to have meetings and encounters, perhaps we will have little time to mobilize the world to organize the world social forum with us.


@3 The second point, I read the synopsis, it is good to have it, we will try to help translate it into French in Arabic, to send it to the people of our region, but we must mobilize people for that,

And I agree that the facilitating group in Mexico should work more with international, other than, 

Because I believe that Carmen or Guadalupe said, that @4 we really must have an assembly of the world social forum facilitating collective in Mexico, to have more people and to mobilize ourselves . more people, is the way to do it.

Because like this week last week we had three meetings on what is happening in Tunisia, Algeria, Libya, Morocco and beyond with the Palestinians. They are preparing a world social forum in Palestine.


And there are many things preparing for the road to Mexico, and @5 we must link the facilitating group from Mexico with the other groups to facilitate communication with them.


@6 And my proposal is to have a strong call, a political call, because now we know the date in May, that there is a forum in 2022, but people should know it , and they mobilize from now on, because we have a year to do it , and time is running fast, and we must mobilize people for that, sorry for taking more time. Thanks.


Observation point @018- 2: 

The WSF 2022 event is announced as "wiht a mixed format": it is not only about inviting to come to a face-to-face moment in Mexico, but to mention that it will be a mixed event and that the event may have a virtual forum component 

see the observation on pinto @014 and the input of May 22 http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-insumo6-en 

Also the invitation can offer to get involved in a more continuous pre and post event process in consideration of @014 

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@019 1h15mn

Rosa Thank you Hamouda. Here we are doing the interpretation and support here in the driving,

I totally agree with you that we have to do this mobilization, now at the international level with this call, I think it is a task that we have to do in Mexico, and it has to be soon, we cannot wait any longer, together with the IC and with all the organizations that are present here and that we are mobilizing


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Leo I think your hand is raised and we have to close this point. 

@020 

Leo

I completely agree with what Hamuda just said about the call .. 

@1 Only the written call is not enough, if we are in favor of building a process. I think it is logical that we would have to give to events, as far as possible face-to-face, in the different regions, 


@2 That is why I did not agree to simply suspend the International Council, because where there is later, it is avoided that there are only Mexicans or Brazilians in their overwhelming majority, as is the danger that always exists. 


@3 We have to make an emphasis, an impulse, from now on, to hold regional meetings, such as Mesoamerica, Mexico, Central America, whatever, Eastern Europe, Asia.


@4 In fact discussions have arisen inside and outside the Social Forum to do this, because we are all eager to build this "global subject".


Looking at the structure itself, look, the Facilitating Committee does have a lot to do in terms of preparing for the next big event, but two more levels are needed.

 

@5 1 / On the one hand, a fairly quick and agile response to situations. 

Remember about 15 days three weeks ago Palestine was urgent, and there is a declaration there, some sign, others do not sign, but not for content reasons, but because they were not there at this time or another 


text here http://openfsm.net/projects/icmembers-declarations/icmd202105-international-solidarity-with-palestinian-resistance 


If now, for example, Comrade Liege has presented this important moment of a general mobilization against Bolsonaro, which is not a Brazilian issue only, we are clear that it affects the whole world, the contour, we have to find an agile mechanism for a very different response. righ now



@6 2 / And another level would be through what that Hamouda calls assemblies, to plan, already in advance, I know once a month, the issues that can be decisive for these conjunctures, 


7 So to make possible what Rosi said, not only to defend and react to the bad guys in the world, but what would be the proposals of the World Social Forum


@8 This cannot wait until next May to give an answer , this has to be a strategic planning of the movements,


@9 And for this, we need to convene assemblies, even virtual ones, periodically, because this will cause an impact if we do this, that we have something to offer, rather than say, we are going to do another World Social Forum, if not political impact, 


@10 but for that, these structural instruments are needed in the forum



Observation ,: point @020-4

There are inside and outside the IC, those who do not share the vision of the forum as a global actor. And the current charter of principles does not designate the forum as a "global subject" but as a "space of encounter".

 Movements that want to "build a global subject" can use the forum space / process to do so. Considering that the forum is this global subject is something else.


Remark: point @020-5 

The organizations participating in the forum process were invited to sign and decide autonomously - http://openfsm.net/projects/icmembers-declarations/ 

An agile mechanism is there be an informal agreement between people in the IC or outside , who are ready to propose, on behalf of their first signatory organizations, inclusive texts, which they consider relevant to propose to the signature of more WSF participants according to channels within their reach - (see http://openfsm.net/projects/icmembers-declarations/)

For example, showing declarations to the firm as initiatives gives them visibility https://join.wsf2021.net/initiatives , even more so if there are ways to search among the initiatives 


Observation point @020 6: self-organized assemblies to link to the WSF process towards a mixed event WSF 2022 can be proposed by groups of participating organizations, whether they are from the IC of the gfmx facilitating group or not - 


It is also possible to imagine,, some groups of organizations that are formed and agree within, or in relation to, an international facilitating group that is in debate / perspective ( see discusion  in IC 24 april), have a common framework “to prepare panels / information / bonding meetings and take care of welcoming /linkup spaces Why and how to participate in the mixed process / event WSF 2022”, with a diversity of voices commenting on this.


Observation : point @020-7

The organization of assemblies does not imply that there is something like "forum proposals

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Rosa: Thank you Leo. Well, I don't know if Óscar, give him the last word, and then we give the floor to Félix


@021 From Guadalupe à tout le monde: 04:44 PM


@1 Regarding what was expressed by Leo @020, I consider it important that the WSF has the vision of embracing, or incorporating in its own agenda and its themes, the struggles that are already raised at the world and regional level by others, organized in relation of the great problems generated by the capitalist system, 


@2 That is to say, it is not necessary that we start efforts from the beginning, but rather give voice, echo, build strength with support for those strategies that are already outlined, and make a presence, 

@3 and add them to those that we build internally from our thematic axes


Observation @021-2

To the extent that the WSF is a meeting space, and not an actor, it is groups of participating organizations that can, through their acts and forms of participation, activities and initiatives, “give voice and echo”. 



Observation @021-3

Only invitations called to come participate are circulated from the facilitating group and the IC. in the forum space. @018-1 Hamouda


Relevant to describe what was the practice of the virtual social forum WSF 2021 in relation to the thematic axes. In fact the axes simply correspond to parts / dimensions of the forum meeting space


, See description of themes on the website https://wsf2021.net/espacios-tematicos/, they help participating organizations to have an idea that can be treated in the forum, knowing that in a WSF no control over them as activity content fits thematically in the forum, The WSF is multi-thematic; Everything fits

 

The thematic axes were agreed in a limited number: - 8 in the virtual WSF-, and with formulations defined by the facilitating group, with some feedback from the IC, https://wsf2021.net/espacios-tematicos/ 


In these axes / spaces, self-managed activities can be placed (700 in the virtual WSF), https://join.wsf2021.net/activities including (10 assemblies that met the criteria of having 5 or more organizations preparing them), https: //join.wsf2021.net/assemblies-activities (and 10 more that were called assemblies but did not meet this criteria) 


Each axis corresponds to an “information panel with privileged visibility, part of the effort to attract participants, prepared in a self-organized manner among a group of organizations formed from the facilitating group, which decided who to invite to the panel, etc. https://join.wsf2021.net/panel-activities 

(8 axes 8 panels, that is, 1 panel among 100 activities organized more or less

It should be noted that it is not in the panels that except for exceptions articulations are manifested, but in activities, assemblies and initiatives 


These panel preparation groups do not have “control” over the organizations that come to place self-organized activities in the axis / thematic space corresponding to “their” panel. Perhaps they can circulate information and stimulate articulations between them nothing more.

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@022 1h22

Oscar: Thank you Rosi. Nothing more to emphasize the latter, which Leo pointed out; and then that it coincides in the conceptual and to go providing materials, 

But it is the last thing that Leo said, how to get out, in a concrete way and as agile as possible on regional issues, I would say or global. 

There is the Palestine thing, or the Bolsonaro thing, to have, but "on behalf of the forum", however minimal it may be, however brief it may be, an initiative on important problems of global conjunctures. There seems to me to be a central point 


How to act? This is already action: go out and speak, but "on behalf of the forum". Just emphasize that, and in accordance with what Hamuda also proposed. thanks Rosa


@023 Pierre in chat 09; 40 

Having initiative / pronouncement on behalf of the forum as proposed by Oscar is in contradiction with the principles of the forum ( WSF principle 6) - Hence the importance of understanding well and soaking up the principles of the WSF  https://wsf2021.net/fsm2021/340- 2 /   see transcript June 12 @035


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@ 024 Rosa; Is Felix around? Well, I think that we have the challenge from now on, to organize ourselves, thematically, strategically, regionally , and then call a face-to-face meeting as a facilitating group

no Felix? Where are the agreements more or less?


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Felix; if they are repeating the word agree?

Rosa: Ricardo asked to speak, we finished with Ricardo, then Félix follows, and we go to the next item on the agenda.

@025 

Ricardo. Hello, it is understandable, how different people arrive in each meeting, that things that have been seen are repeated, and that perhaps they have not been clear how agreements. 


@1 I suggest that you look at the writings that Carmen and those that Daniela have presented today, which synthesize both Mexican meetings, where criticisms were even made of the International Committee, already past activities, so that issues are highlighted, such as those that have been said here again

transcripcion 22 de mayo http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-22mayo21-en
transcripcion 12 de junio http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-en
sintesis http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-sintesis-desde-gfmx-en transcripcion 26 de junio
http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-26junio21-en

@2 first : the leading role must be those of the peoples in struggle, their needs, their initiatives. It does not belong to others : we are collaborators, and facilitators in some way, to advance the struggle of the peoples of the world. This is an underline from the virtual Social Forum, it has been insisted on that point.


@3 Second, the forum is a permanent process, but not only of meetings, not only of registrations, but of organized activities, hopefully in campaigns.


@4 Third, as Rosy told him, in some of the meetings, we need sovereignty, Daniel de codem also said, we need sovereignty in communication, and also an agile response in communication, to be able to make strategy, these strategies need organized campaigns . 

That's what the forum can do. I think that in other words he is repeating this same initiative. Thanks.


Remark: about @025-2

A / The use of the word "people" deserves clarification

there are ancestral peoples that have or do not have a common community organization as a people, and where there may be also organizations and movements inside the people, 

there are "peoples" of states and / or nations that have constitutions and an enormous diversity of civil society organizations.


B / The statement that the peoples / social actors expressing themselves with their “organizations” are the protagonists, (and not the facilitators) implies that the “agile communication” and the “organized campaigns” come from the possibly powerful articulations made between them in their own name , and is consistent with the vision of the forum as a process space and not a global actor.

 

C: The organizations present in the mexican collective assume a facilitating role of theWSF 2022 forum process - and are not politically substituted for the peoples and social actors 

They try to implement a concrete manifestation of the “vision of the forum”, expressed in its principles, as a counter-hegemonic political and cultural space with its generic functions expressed in principle 1 of the charter r. intensify reflection, carry out a democratic debate of ideas, elaborate proposals, establish a free exchange of experiences and articulate effective actions where the participating organizations are the actors in building articulations 


D / In this sense, taking up the experience of the virtual forum 2021, it is interesting that the size, the dynamics of the articulations may be visible on a case-by-case basis. 

How many organizations cooperate to organize an activity and / or an assembly, 

How many organizations are signing the declaration or taking initiative of action that has been able to get out of this activity. 

With the possibility of having much more signatory organizations than those that did participate direclty in the said assembly/activity


E / In this context, the simple criterion agreed in the virtual WSF 2021 is relevant that to appear on the list of assemblies https://join.wsf2021.net/assemblies-activities it was necessary that the assembly be co-organized by, at least , 5 organizations 

 

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 Rosa: Thank you Ricardo. Felix now yes.


@026 Felix: I propose that the agreements on this point be:


@1 First , the report corresponding to this point was received and accepted.

 

@2 Second, in the perspective that a collective process of knowledge and action is carried out, this becomes, that is, the report that was presented , becomes a 'work instrument'


@3 And to be a working instrument, the additions that were proposed in the discusion be taken to the colleagues who prepared the report , so that we all have it, so that we can refer to it and expand it and everything, and it does not become anything else. brainstorm ideas to stay on the sidelines

@4 But compliance has just been emphasized very well right now by the person who preceded me @025: we also have to have as a fundamental instrument of work, the schedule or "calendar of the actions" that we have already defined in this facilitating group,  

but in each meeting it is thought as that beginning to carry so that this stretches, and this distorts a lot. 


It must be remembered that, after these meetings, which were held for the antecedent of the forum and the exchange with the International Committee, we have the meeting about objectives (for this forum), 

see text of meeting on april 17th  http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-17abril21-en/#4


@5 And in this meeting of objectives, those objectives will also have to go out, how they are achieved, and there they will define the series of commissions, tasks 

And everything, that although today some commissions were on the agenda at the end; I think they are commissions for the next meeting

But already the most structural part of this process are those that will come out after the objectives 


@6 Everyone agrees to have the two instruments: our schedule of actions and results of this stage, what came out of the report we gave? ,

And afterwards we will be seeing how many of these initiatives are landed, as Pierre says, but they would not be part of the agreements right now. 


Does it seem like an agreement?

Not as a rapporteur, my task is not a rapporteur, and rapporteurship comes from the other side

Right now I made the effort to synthesize what seemed most interesting to me and that, although it would be useful but it is from the Office of the Rapporteur.

I specify the agreements so that we can follow up, 

@7 Because, without a doubt, a commission that must be created, I advance it, it is the Commission of memory and follow-up of agreements

So if someone, who is having, who is updating what we are contributing, and whatever the instruments or mechanism, to follow up and we are not going to remind you every time we meet, thank you



Observation on point @026- 6: 

The notion of “activity calendar / action schedule” seems not to have been discussed so far in these FG mexico meetings - of what different types of activities / actions? made in whose name? For what purpose? Where is a list of such actions that can be ordered on a schedule? 

 

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@027 1h29

Rosa Thank you Felix 

If I believe that we agree with these directions that you are now giving from this first point, 

@1 Let's see now who signs up to move forward with this "memory recovery" , Well Pierre has quite a large background, he has all the transcripts, but we must take care that it is not only a transcription as it is, but also that it is not very succinct in the processes. 


Observations on point @027-1 @26-7 @009-2

A /. On the memory of these precedence meetings Since it is a matter of antecedents " transfer of experience", it may be logical that there is a look from the IC, on whether something significant escaped in the synthesis, in relation to what was tried to transmit from the diverse experience of the IC . 

This collective experience is somewhat unified by the collective practice of facilitating concrete WSF events / processes, while opinions on the conceptualization of the WSF process are diverse and can even be divergent.( space /actor issue)


B / on the content of the memory

A synthetic report , with some additions to be considered in an ad hoc commission, where the presence or absence of a formulation is not conclusive of its importance or level of consensus, contains a priori less information than the transcripts. 

The transcripts with identified and contextualized points; enriched with links to observations and lexicons, they give a hint of dialogue and can be commented on. 

One challenge is to propose an agile circulation between a succinct formulation, and the transcripts, with appreciation and documentation of the various interventions that raise many notions and experiences and will feed concrete and grounded discussions. 


C / on a possible next step : with the constituted material, some underlying options can be formulated about what the forum is and what it is to facilitate a forum process 

According to the option taken, and the distance to the vision described in the chart of principles WSF, the what and the hows are oriented. 


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Second item on the agenda: Comments on the WSF charter of principles


@027B Rosa: Look, the second point. that we propose for this agenda; and we are going to give it a limited time, it has been the one that we reviewed, the Mexican men and women,( for this we send them the amount chat, by whatsapp, by telegram, of the charter of principles of the world forum) , so that we read the WSF principles, 

Because this charter it is important that we all know it, we do not know if it is shared or if you read it, have any questions, any doubts, something made you noise, from the charter 

And there it was mentioned that it was important, 20 years after the forum, to also make a commission to work on it, to work on it in Mexico as well , regarding the process of updating this charter

Yes Martin?

 

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@028 Martin

We touched on the subject last meeting, and I want to try again to locate a little how things would be, rather in terms of method, and a little reflection on the contents of the 14 points of the WSF charter.


@1 I know that the charter is a historical result complicated, i-e we must start from the idea that the charter was controversial, is a world charter, I think the level of social movements, collective, is a political proposal in global sense, and in the singular sense, and that in this sense it took a lot of work we moved away that the writing was complicated, and in the end how it turned out. 


@2 It responded to a historic moment, at the time that the multilateral organizations, the World Bank, the World Trade Organization, was practically formed, in the face of this process that occurs of the savage neoliberalism of 45 years, 


@3 I say that this charter, when it was born in 2001, in Porto Alegre, well, when it is assumed as such, and that the World Social Forum is already starting, and its articulation, must be seen as a kind of guide, where are we going; not?


Today we are seeing a complicated situation, a situation that is marking us precisely from 2001 to now, 20 years from now, like the World Social Forum itself, according to Leo, in which @4 we do need to make analysis of the global situation of the phenomena that are taking place , from the crisis of 2009, to the current phenomenon of the pandemic, and like this the neoliberal states do not end up disappearing. 


I believe that the menu still has very good things, I would locate three levels that are handled in the charter

@5 One is that which I had made: of the articulations .

 

@6 Another is to basically conceptualize that the space as such is, that it is the space for discussion, that it is the space for meeting, even for global mobilization and that this part can be reviewed, but I hardly see that it can be taken away a lot of.


@7 I am going to return to the point that Pierre says, regarding point six (of the charter), it is a space that is not deliberative, and that must be highlighted

And that perhaps is the strong point of a future discussion, which would be that if he were (deliberative) he could pronounce himself by X or Z, without generating certain consensuses or certain positions

That is what thematic social networks are for, and that those that speak about certain issues of conjunctures and positions. In that sense, all the networks that are generated regionally, spatially, well they do


@8 I think that rather we had to see is how we can reinforce some points within the networking situation, and how to address the current issues , that is, we have to find a way that the forum… ,, 


@9 It has always been said, between forum and forum, there is a displacement, and people disperse, go to their themes, leave their things, and then until they meet again


@10 I think that in this sense, the proposal would be to start discussing the WSF charter. It does not necessarily mean that we are going to change it from here to Mexico, and that another charter will be released next year, because this is of great consensus, 


@11But maybe if you start the discussion as such, about what is missing from the charter


@12 I see the point that does not bring it, what is it about how to be constantly analyzing the conjuncture between the relationship between forum and forum for meetings.

I would leave it there. Thanks


Observations 

about point @028-1 & 2 & 3

A / about the process of creating the charter of principles in 2001. Testimonials are worth looking for - here elements taken from a book by Chico Whitaker .." the challenge of the world social forum a way of seeing"

 

The creation of a charter of principles "conceptualizing the WSF" was announced by the 8 organizations making up the organizing committee WSF 2001 at the end of the WSF 2001 event http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input117-en 

In April the WSF charter was drafted describing the WSF as a space (in coherence with the preparation of the WSF 2001, and instituted in June with the creation of an international council of 50 organizations approving the charter of principles with minor modifications see preamble https: // wsf2021. net / fsm2021 / 340-2 /

 

B / Since then the international council had more than 50 meetings http://openfsm.net/projects/cifutur/cifuturg2-age-and-presence-in-ic

since 2011 a good part of these meetings have been memorized http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/   and http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended/
 

about point @028-7

C / In these 20 years the IC "as such" has not expressed political positions in coherence with WSF Principle 6 , using "statements on behalf of its members" for this purpose http://openfsm.net/projects/icmembers-declarations/

There have been continuous discussions in relation to the principles, fed largely from outside the IC, by intellectuals, with little weight in the process but a lot of enunciation capacity. 

There was an unsuccessful attempt to change the paradigm in montréal 2016 wanting to make the IC take political positions as such, with two concrete cases: Palestine and Brazil 

In the course of the years some personalities of the organizing committee of Porto Alegre initial 2001 have distanced themselves 

 

D / Some other IC organizations went to try alternative to the WSF (for example, “international assembly of peoples” in Caracas in 2018) It should be noted that a significant part of the organizing committee WSF 2001, (which had institutionalized, in an internal agreement programmatic among the 8 organizations to prepare the WSF 2002, decision-making by consensus) together with other Brazilian members, they have practiced consensus/consent decision making and despite their ideological differences, they keep in cooperation as a Brazilian “collective 660” https: // join .wsf2021.net / organizations / 3450

There has been the constitution of a small "renovating group" in 2020,https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/3582 arguing changes that have to do with the possibility of expressing "on behalf of the forum" and abandoning the decision by consensus/consent in the IC and in the facilitating collective, (see in this meeting the points @029-2 @031-2, @036-3, @043-8, @048-6, @053-4 

 

E / The 2001 principles remain in force in wsf world event process, insofar as there have been no conditions, or attempts, to date, for a discussion in the IC that would be focused on the principles in the IC, and that would allow an alternative formulation that has broad consensus / consent. .

The initial 2001 formulation of principles is clear and coherent and has allowed the continuity of the WSF process, and the non-fragmentation of the IC process, although with less dynamism and more tensions in the IC, after 2011/12, in a context where the IC commissions stopped working, 

 

F / With pragmatism In this context, a pragmatic and realistic perspective is the one mentioned by Ian on June 12 @013-2 also in http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input113-en the debate between the WSF "space or political actor" must continue, Waiting for it to be resolved (or not) The question, this debate should not inhibit the activity and goodwill of other WSF sympathizers and IC members and prevent reaching the objectives that the charter of WSF principles establishes and allows being met. 

It was in this spirit that the virtual WSF 2021 was facilitated


About point @028-11 & 12

Among the tasks of the IC described in casablanca en 2013,http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/casa13-wsfic-tasks-tareas-taches-cifsm/#EN is that of doing conjuncture analysis as an exchange between the members 

The issue of the continuity of the process has not given rise to many exchanges, a brief moment in 2017 can be noted in Porto Alegre on the dynamics of the IC as a facilitating community of the fsm process http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended/ ci-portoalegre-201701-notes-21manana-dynamica-ci 

Ian has been touching on this issue in his speech on June 12 @013 see http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input113-es

Speaking of continuity, the fact is that the participation dynamics that could be sustained just after the virtual WSF 2021 event has been cut - The 10,000 people and 1,300 organizations registered at https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations have not received any message from no facilitating group since January 30 

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1h35mn 

Rosa thanks Martín. Do I raise my hand Leo? Read ahead


@029 Leo 

I would like to make a very specific proposal, there are an infinity of discussions in which about the charter in which it has assisted you for almost a century, and there are always three elements, three concrete points that are in doubt for today, unlike 20 years ago. 

 

@1 One is the non-participation of the political parties, I believe that this must be definitively eliminated, because there are parties that really contribute to the struggle, even to the coordination of civil society etc., that does not mean that they are more important than the social movements, but yes, they are part of the range that we are building.

 

@2 Second is this discussion around "unanimity", we all agree that we are fighting for a convergence, but this cannot be taken as a rule that, if there are 1 or 2 groups that do not agree, they block the entire encounter of consensus you can see the rule of unanimity, which goes against the search for a consensus,


@3 and the third thing that we have repeated many times, at the beginning this, when the charter was written was a charter , which should thus give the spirit of the events called World Social Forum, and by making it a process, it is one thing, and we have done among ourselves in virtually many discussions, about the "space of action" , that the forum must be defined as a "space for action" , of course for reflection as well, for exchange, but a space for action, otherwise, we never give ourselves this purpose, we will never reach the goal that has been designed in the previous point. Thanks 

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@030 Pierre in chat 09:52 PM 

About the wsf charter of principles - there are 25 occurrences of the word "letter" in the transcript of June 12 http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21

This WSF charter

@1 / ideologically locates the forum space / process with generic values ​​/ goals / actions of its participants 


@2 / gives conceptual elements on what the forum is and is not, to guide facilitating groups and participants in the implementation and practical use of the WSF

see the links indicated in point @035 of the transcript of June 12 http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-en links on exchanges of arguments about vision of the forum http://openfsm.net/ projects / dibco1 / dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input120-en
 

 

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@031 From armando in the chat 09:53 PM

@1 You need to change the idea of consensus as the only way to decide .. . the idea of ​​consensus is a liberal fallacy that eliminates the political possibility of agonism that implies recognizing that there are conflicts that define the Political. .. the essential and that opens the possibility of discussing with Politics ... that finds expression in movements, political parties and states ... the integral state of Gramsci ... 


@2 We have to face the complexity of Politics and Politics in order to face conflicts, even because civil society is' deeply divided ideologically, and this must be faced in order to build the possible and necessary political actions that emerge from the debates. with majorities and minorities ...


Observation on @031-1 & @43 -3

A / these arguments of “expressing agonism”, as they relate to the commitment and context of a forum facilitating group, whose only goal is “to set up an implementation of the forum as an ideologically positioned, attractive, inclusive, and relevant meeting space, people and organizations that perhaps do want to feel they are not alone, charge batteries, and encounter autonomously from below and articulate to dialogue or to act "for another possible world"? 


Agonism can be expressed in the forum space between entities with some divergent political stakes, although compatible with the broad ideological location of the WSF forum space, 

Agonism can express itself out of the WSF space between social forces of forum participants and “dominant” social forces, part of neoliberal alliances including of cours civil society organizations

But agonism is not relevant to build together a forum process defined as a common space for meetings and self-organized articulations 


B / conclusion: It is only if one wants to "speak politically on behalf of a forum and from the facilitating group" that it becomes "problematic" to have a decision protocol by consensus/consent in the facilitating group of this forum

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@032 Pierre in chat 09:54 PM 

 It is important to specify that the idea of ​​"deciding by consensus" is to make decisions in a facilitating group about the implementation of a forum process - IT IS NOT FOR DECISIONS of a political nature that are made in self-organized articulations between participating organizations. forum


@033 From Pierre 09:57 PM

On the part of the action of the participants, here is a "story" of how the actions of the participants, that are mentioned several times in the WSF principles, are made visible in the space of the input forum at the May 22 meeting, on ways of showing articulation for action by forum participants http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-insumo7-en 

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Rosa Thank you Leo. Martin, did you raise your hand again?


@034 1h38mn

Martin yes, let's see if it worries me a little. Let's see. I believe that worldwide there is a crisis of the party system, and I do attack the issue at once, because if I am concerned, I understand it, I read, @1 there is a crisis of the party system, and they have their spaces, some of us have participated, because we have been in parties, and the crisis that is seen there does not have to come across at the level of the World Social Forum


@2 T he World Social Forum always gave space, for example, to the São Paulo forum that groups together all the left parties in Latin America, and they participated with their panels and their thematic discussions, which were thematic discussions even because we were participants in organizing these panels, but it was never intended to be there as such, and as guests.

I think that we should have a very strong discussion , there is the recently created progressive international of parties that left social democracy, and the Socialist International, because the parties of the Socialist International do not agree, that is, it's your problem I think.

@3 I believe that this discussion if we have to be very clear, the forum has to be a much more open space, more, let's say, libertarian, in this sense of encountering, that we have to continue with the idea that we have of having to be with the Organized and unorganized civil society , with indigenous peoples, with the struggles of partners, the struggles of trans partners, of sexual diversity


@4 And in this logic, we have much more anger right now to solve, what to see is apart. That does not mean that perhaps they do not follow the panels that they sometimes propose in their spaces. 


@5 About the action part; I do believe that maybe it is a question of method and responsibility at the level of how it would be promoted in the IC, and in the regional ones, of how we promote actions periodically. 


@6 I believe this, about very concrete situations that are global and unique geographically, spatially. In that part, from time to time, it could be seen that conjuncture analysis is done, and what action, in the methods that the World Social Forum has , can be regional actions , promote things, no? 


Simply by boat soon, I am thinking about the lack that there is right now at the level of budget issues for the sanitary , to avoid this type of pandemic, that the rich can buy a vaccine in the Mexican case to New York or Miami, and the Mexicans , Hondurans, Salvadorans, Guatemalans wait to see when the vaccine arrives 

In other words, situations that involve something that impacts everyone, as well as war, the search for peace, that involves all of us worldwide, and that issue will arise there

I think that it is worth as a Leo, analysis, what role is being played as a state we can make a criticism, and an action, and a manifesto, and a pronouncement

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@035 From Guadalupe in chat 09:59 AM

Many parties are generated from social movements. As organized entities they can be structurally strengthened to advance in causes coinciding with those of the WSF. What there may be are certain basic rules for the participation of the parties in the WSF, because the WSF has to unite all efforts for another possible world, from our "internal democracy"

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@036 From Hector: 10:00 AM

@1 It is the third session that is dedicated to WSF history and what is established in the WSF. I will not intervene in this, as I have not done so far. 

At the end of today is a space, as an appendix, on commissions. I do not see it coming. 


@2 From my point of view, it is necessary to think about a Mexican assembly in shape and perhaps already in person to advance firmly in the organizational route. 


@3 And the IC should now focus more than in the past, on the forward duties, which are many


Observation on @036


A / The “precedence/experience transfer” work is not wasted time and it brings to the surface, particularly in this third meeting, fnudamental elements of that may not have been clearly communicated or perceived among all the people who approach a facilitating collective WSF mexico 2022, with their varying level of experience in a global forum or thematic / national forum process 


B / It appears there is an implicit “WSF framework” that needs to be explicited, of which it is realistic to be aware and in relation to which the group in training must be situated. We are not in a situation from scratch there is a whole history to know and assume and orient yourself

C / Returning here to 3 points from the beginning of the feedback synthesis document from the first two “precedence” meetings 

A The WSF is self-organizing,…. / The social forum process that is intended to be built towards WSF 2022 has to be in coherence with the WSF principles currently in force that would not change before the WSF 2022 event, and be inspired by the accumulated WSF experience. This has been pragmatically the case for the virtual WSF 2021, the closest experience we have. https://wsf2021.net/programa-evento/

B.- The WSF does not need an International Council, .... In the case of a world event there is a historical co-responsibility of the facilitating collective with the IC , which, despite its limitations and internal tensions, that appear in this meeting, has “some features "of a" facilitating community with historical experience of the FS process and its participants ", with perhaps divergences of vision, but unity of pragmatic experience 

3 The GF will have to find its own path… .. the mexico facilitating collective that is consolidating is invited to take into consideration the fact that all 14 groups for facilitating world WSF events that preceded WSF 2022 used the consensus / consent decision protocol to organize the common space of the forum. And there is an experience available on this among IC members who were operative in facilitating events. 

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Rosa follows Óscar who raised his physical hand, then Félix, Mario, Armando

@036 

1h41 Óscar good 

@1 First: how good that we are already addressing this issue (of the charter), it is a central, important issue,


@2 Second: indeed, we must make a careful reading of this document and its history, as Martín points out: how it came about. 

Third: I would say, @3 underline the contradictions that the document contains. 

We have all known in one way or another, how it was being elaborated, reconcile positions, etc., but cannot remain a document that will always have to be interpreted . 

Every norm, everything, principle, every law, whatever its nature, has to be interpreted, by whom? That is where we began to have a little more complicated problems that not only refer to the charter, but to the structure, the way the forum itself works. 


@4 We will have to establish, and discuss in parallel, a decision methodology, it can be a "simple majority", or a "qualified majority" , as is done in practically all collegiate bodies, in any circumstance, 


@5 So, so as not to extend myself too much, I would suggest that we contribute precisely to this commission, that work on the charter, our materials, our points of view, to process them, how to arrive at basic questions, of common scope. 

And finally, I would say, once this open commission is integrated, make its own agenda in substance, and methodologically. Nothing else for now.


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@037 From Pierre: 10:03 PM

@1 information about the WSF charter. 

https://wsf2021.net/fsm2021/340-2/ 

http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en 

(on this page a "colored version" is proposed http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en-colorized 

and a version that shows principles and their implementation in the forms of participation 

http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en-table3

also here a transcription of a workshop on the principles in brazil 

http://openfsm.net/projects/espacios-oe/event2021-fsmjd-notas7-en

@2 Also elements of dialogue between Oscar and Chico. http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input120-en  

 

On reaching an agreement in the facilitating collective GFMX

@3 a practice established since the beginning of the global WSF process in 14 facilitating collectives of 14 events is that facilitating collectives - for facilitating decisions, use a consensus decision protocol that encourages listening and avoids divisions

This allows maintaining the unity of the facilitating group to have a process common to the diversity of its participants. 


@4 In other words, organizations that have diverse and even divergent political options in the content of their participation in the forum, can nevertheless cooperate in a same facilitating group in unity to implement the process that they undertake together to make happen.

"The principles contained in the Charter - which must be respected by all those who wish to participate in the process and by those who are members of the organization of the new editions of the World Social Forum" (preamble to the WSF charter) 


@5 In other words, in practice the GFMX has to pragmatically respect the current WSF principles to organize WSF 2022.

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From Guadalupe in the chat: 10:08 PM mainly because Pierre says so.
 

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@038 Felix:

Two points unite according to my task of making agreements 

At this point the issue was presented to further mature the discussion on the charter , but we need to reach an agreement. 

A possible agreement is that good was received and the process continues to mature, 

Or the other is what Óscar says, that here the agreement is to form a commission, and what would be the mechanism to integrate it, and that this commission is already part of the work

@1 It would be important to see if here 1 / the agreement is taken to appoint a commission, or 2 / only that we acknowledge the issue and continue to mature the issue. 


Regarding the maturing of the subject, I cannot help but also intervene on what I read. 

@2 I do believe that it would be very dangerous, I would be against a modification of the Charter where parties could be incorporated , because the definition that the charter has so that between parties, military organizations, or militias, is because both They are organisms that historically and increasingly, first the parties leave, their name says they leave and secondly, they have a traditional vertical authoritarian structure where the leaders, although with the best intentions in the world, by a vertical structure, accumulate power and relationships and as human beings that we have not analyzed it well yet, they lose ground.


@3 Then finish by saying that military parties and organizations, I think not . Another issue is about people who are militants, or party structures relating to social movements , yes, they can be part, even military, Gallardo has just died, being a military man, he defended a lot of human rights within the army, and paid years With this, then people like him can be part, but not as a member, as an expression of the Mexican army, or even of the parties that come as parties. That would be my observation on that topic when it comes up again. Thank you.

 

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Rosa after Mario, and I continue to finish with a motion, a clarification. Mario

@039 1h46

Mario: @1 The previous interventions, however, when we located the charter issue, we saw somehow the spirits of the forum, and from those spirits, how to establish updated proposals that would strengthen this proposal of the Social Forum in Mexico 2022. 

So what I would say is, if we are going to go deeper into this charter, well we would have to see who are the most suitable people or who we would have to see than to give it a change 

In this sense this charter is part of the historical process.

@2 And now it is our turn to start from these spirits, with respect to the conjuncture, with respect to the current moments, what we would also have to deepen, that would allow us to take forward this path to the World Social Forum.


@3 Otherwise we can get caught up in so many discussions, that at the end of the day, well, not all of us are happy, because of the different situations, movements, and actions that we carry out. 


@4 Therefore, it has more to the background spirit behind that charter, and that will give us elements to be able to build this proposal at this current moment , at this juncture, that allows us to really start generating a process that can open roads.

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@040 

Rosa thank you Mario

If I'm going to make a motion. What is the point of this point, of treating this point about WSF charter here

 

@1 On the one hand, we carry, as the Mexican facilitating group, the task of reading the WSF charter and saying, that we know that this charter exists , which is a navigation chart for the processes, and that we cannot continue to be part from the facilitating group if we have not read that WSF charter

We have to read it, because there are very important things in political, ethical and guiding terms. So, this is the meaning of this moment, if we have not read it, I think we cannot give an opinion, then we have the task of rereading it if we have not read it.


And the other thing seems to me, that we are not here yet, the idea is not to say who he is, to see how I explain myself: he said last time; We need a commission to work on this charter, but this Commission, that task is not for the Mexican facilitating group, @ 2 I think it is a task that the International Council has to do, and that the International Council has to convene us

 

Because obviously, this reading must be done, but we have, as a Mexican facilitating group, we have to read this charter, to know that it exists, @ 3 and it is an orientation that will guide our process, it is a navigation chart that is not a straitjacket, but yes these are ethical, political, methodological orientations , this is the sense that we must consider.

    

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@041 Líege, 

I would like to ask a clarification question, because that is exactly what you are talking about, because the one who has to decide whether to update the charter is the international council of the forum, so I do not understand what the discussion is here. I'm not understanding.

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@042 Rosa 1h50mn 

Exact Well then, the idea is that @1 here was only about collecting some ideas from the Mexican facilitating group, who had doubts about the Charter of Principles , there are things that have already been mentioned regarding some points. 


@2 One thing that is very strong, which is that of the military parties and organizations , I think that yes, many of us maintain that political parties as such, or military organizations cannot be part of the forum. Perhaps it would be necessary to see if there is an organization of these political spaces, which perhaps could participate, but with their qualifications, and I believe that this debate would have to take place within the International Council of the World Social Forum.

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Rosa I want to apologize to Armando, who is on the list, I skipped it, and then I spoke to Carmen 


@043 1h50mn 

Armando does not matter, I believe that there is a discussion about which I put some observations in the chat @031 and I believe that a substantive discussion, if I believe, as you have just mentioned, a fairly conscientious reading of the WSF charter is important, I believe that it continues a strong orientation, we are going to talk about political ethics that the Forum proposes from its origin 


But yes. @1 There are several problems that have more to do with format; As we organize ourselves, we make decisions, and we act, "as such, as a forum", and I believe that that is the center of the debate. 


@2 And therefore, you cannot, well, hide that, this is there, as a topic that has been animating many debates, around the power of the forum, its eventual decline, its potential. 


Therefore, even without taking that now at this moment as a central theme, it must be noted, - because surely, that is going to appear and it is a challenge that we have.


@3 And there consider that decision-making, with the idea of ​​absolute consensus , - is a way of depoliticizing the processes , let's not forget that, it is a way of practically eliminating the debate, in many cases, because a contrary position is enough to nullify the need to move on, to the bottom of the conflicts. 


@3B And not to forget also, that when we talk about organized society and everything, it is a very unspecific discourse, because within organized society, there is a great diversity of ideological political spectrum .-- 

If, for some reason, we have conservative governments, on the right, it is because they find within civil society also sectors that actively support, that, that is part of organized civil society -.


So how do we deal with this diversity? Well, first, by the principle that those who participate in the forum, based on what the Forum proposes, right? There the anti-neoliberal character, at the anti-capitalist limit, in favor of a democratic radicalism, and well that's where it goes. 


@4 That marks a dividing line, that is, we start from the idea that those who come to the forum agree with our fundamental principles , right? -.  

@5 And from this interpretation, then, we have to see how "we really install a space for dialogue that assumes the conflicts between us" , why not? 

Because here comes the possibility of moving forward, and also assume the structure of the conflicts that we have with the other forces of civil society, which do not agree with the principles of the forum, 

So what I just want to claim is that inherent in these debates, that they configure the political field, right, claim the political, - and re-politicize the processes , - so that we have the possibility of overcoming conflicts, 


@6 the fields in confrontation are clearly established, establishing decisions that allow us to advance in which we agree,


@7 To reserve topics that still need to be studied in depth, and where we have no agreement,


@8 but make decisions, so that agreements can be reached, even if they are by majority, right? 


@9 is a substantive debate - which will be present both in the processes of construction, of agreements for the organization of the forum in Mexico, as well as the general future of the World Social Forum, and the debates must be confronted politically. Thanks.

 

Observations / comments on point @043-1 2 3 


The same formulation of point @1 how we organize, make decisions, and act, as such, as a forum”, shows that we are in this intervention in the vision of the forum as actor and not of the process/space forum 


B / It is inaccurate to say that an absolute consensus is sought in the facilitating group on any type of decision, 

Decision is sought, through "consensus formulations", found throughout attentive discussions, to maintain in the group a general consent or consensus for the decisions that have to do with the implementation of the forum process which the facilitating collective undertook to organize , where fits everyone who feel in tune with the values, goals, generic actions and basic organizing principles of the forum space described in the WSF charter.


C / It is not sought as alleged in point @3 to depoliticize the processes, but to maintain clear that the collective facilitating a forum, as such, is not a place of production of political agreements , outside of organizing the space / processes forum, with its generic ideological location, as a counter-hegemonic process to neoliberalism and allied dominations.


Observations / comments on point @043- 3B & @4 & @7 

D / In the vision of the space forum, it is not sought to politically “question/interpellate ” from the facilitating group “all” the participants, be they in the facilitating group, or in the process space 

Interpellate would mean that from the hypothesis that participants agree with the generic values ​​and goals described in thecharter of principle, the facilitating group set itself the task of exploring what, to what extent they are all (in the facilitating group or in assemblies) specifically agreed 

This does not make sense unless there is the intention of developing a unified narrative "from the forum facilitators" , which would be acceptable to all forum participants


E / In a vision of empowerment / and popular self-education, the construction of "narratives and agendas" is done autonomously in the forum space through the processes of voluntary self-organized dialogues between articulations of participating organizations, from below, with all the "politicization" that want, stimulated by their participation in the forum .

 

In coherence with theWSF principles, the acts of political participation in the forum space are voluntary between autonomous and empowered participating organizations, there is no imposition of positions through narratives or pronouncements produced from the facilitation as such. 


Observations / comments on point @043-

F / In the end, the considerations criticizing the option of using a consensus / consent decision protocol in facilitation tasks lead to the same The fact of speaking politically "from the forum" through an explicit majority decision process ( see interventions @031-2, @036-3, @043-8, @048-6, @053-4) 

Which implies in some way to impose / prescribe / impute opinions to participants in the forum, by the simple fact that they have come in the space ideologically located by the charter of principles. wirh this options Non-directive open space is lost in practice


G / This forum space is about approaching a set of ideas and practices "for another possible world", and that is not manifested in an impositive way 

Speaking politically from / on behalf of the facilitating group, “from / on behalf of the forum”:

1 / it will not make the forum space attractive to people and organizations that approach it , (the forum is a counter-hegemonic instrument for alternative culture and broad alliances in civil society interested in the other possible world) 2 / it will disempower / replace self-organized articulations, which can grow in the forum space 

Rather, it can be argued that it is the combination between the presence of living autonomous political expressions, and the non-directivity of the WSF space, that can make it more attractive for those who come to participate in the event. 

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@044 Pierre in chat 10:14 

@1 Until now in these first meetings the FGMX ( facilitating group mexico) has not clearly exchanged on what is “its decision protocol in the construction of the forum from the facilitated group r - The practice is that these decisions are made by consensus / consent. 

The consensus / consent decision protocol is not proposed and even less imposed in the forum space in inter-organization decisions in its articulations .


@2 It is good to clarify what seems to be a confusion: the "protocol of decision by consensus", actually "by consent", is practiced only within the framework of the facilitating group , and is an option based on experience, (http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input119-en) to maintain the unity of this group . 

And that thus, the forum space that is built by this group can be friendly to the diversity of the participants who are or are not “represented” in the facilitating group. 

"Respecting the principles of the charter", these participants: 1 / are recognizing themselves in the generic goals, values, generic actions that are described as those of generic participants in the forum, 

2 / accept the guiding organizational principles on what is the forum, what it is for, how the forum process operates.

On the other hand, the same organizations that cooperate in the facilitating group can, as participants, feed dynamics of different activities and initiatives according to political differences between them. 

 

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Rosa Thank you Armando, Carmen / Pedro, and then Hamouda.

@045 1h54

Pedro: Just to make a comment and that this third point on the agenda was going to discuss the question of the participation of the commissions. 

And I agree with Óscar in the sense, since there was talk of political parties, and that Leo opened this discussion, it is necessary in some way and in effect, to create a special commission, to see what results there are, and what kind of debates and actions we can take positively, @1 to be able to give the dilemma, and precisely not break the scheme of the Charter of Principles.

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1h55mn 

Hamuda


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@046 Hamouda

I just want to say this discussion, which can be a discussion, because it is this discussion of participation of political parties or not, it is all the time that we have the discussion.

 

@1 You should know: historically, all the time, there is a participation of democratic and left-wing political parties in the world social forum, all the time,

there were many assemblies, in each forum there was an assembly of parliamentarians.


@2 and this assembly of parliamentarians : these are the political parties from all over the world that have this assembly in each forum and they participate, because there is a lot, 


The forum of parliamentarians existed at the beginning of the forum process as a separate space at the time of the WSF 2002 2003 , unless mistaken it no longer exists etc https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foro_Social_Mundial 


@3 I am from a political party, but at the same time, I am with civil society, organizations and movements.

There is no difference, because in the statute, the discussion in the statute in this part must be discussed with, as Armando said, a seminar to discuss this part of the statute.

It is an open, you must discuss it. 


@4 and I think I sent in the chat the call of the Bahía collective for the 2018 world social forum, I translated it into Spanish and I sent it to them. This is what we need, all of us, for the political parties, for the movements, for the women, to explain and I let myself be Damien Liege and Armando, the people who participate to organize and Tiburcio maybe if he is also here. 

Here preparatory publications between January 2017

http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/salvador2018-elements-home   elements 3 and 5 

xx  element circulated by hamouda 

But Damien was in the Bahia collective and he can tell you the importance of having this convocation, because it can be sent to everyone, and the political party can participate in theirs, there is no banner.


@5 Because when we were in Salvador de Bahía there was a meeting, a huge meeting with Lula, but we do it, and Evo Morales was in Dakar and other political leaders are there, because they are our support. And I think the discussion is open, but not contradictory, we must continue.

This activity that Hamouda mentions is a priori a self-managed activity, since the macro program is not mentionning it

https://wsf2018.org/en/fsm-apresenta-programacao-de-atividades/ 

It was organized a priori by a group of movements, at night, so as not to compete with other activities. 

As had been the case in Belem in 2009 where a group of movements invited several heads of state at night, 

This is part of the accumulation of experience and had been worked on in the methodology committee of the IC that worked at that time. http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/contributions-to-heads-of-states-discussion

It should be noted that this activity at WSF 2018 gave rise to a call with an explicit list of signatories. 

https://wsf2018.org/en/chamado-a-solidariedade-internacional-com-o-povo-brasileiro/

.

@6 More important is to raise how we can work together and how we can advance our mobilization and our organization of the world social forum . Thanks.

Maybe Damien can talk a little bit, that would be fine.


 

Observation on @046-5 

 

An example of methodological variation over time 

The macro program of WSF 2018 shows the will to "channel" politically meaningful content called "incidence/advocacy proposal" towards a single specific self organized assembly , https://wsf2018.org/en/fsm-apresenta-programacao-de-atividades/

"World Assembly of Peoples, Movements and Territories in Resistance: In this Chamber, the documents produced in the self-managed activities and synthesized during the meeting of the rapporteurs will be shared for their validation or processing."

The fact of channeling the proposal in a single assembly was incoherence with the methodology adopted in Copenhagen by the IC in 2008: that there be a diversity of self-organized assemblies towards the end of the event and that was implemented between WSF 2009 2011 2013 2015 2016 http://openfsm.net/projects/convergences 

.

This assembly did not work in practice, and the accumulated WSF methodology has been implemented again in the virtual WSF 2021 with 10 assemblies with the objective criterion that an assembly be organized by more than 5 organizations https://join.wsf2021.net/ assemblies-activities  - https://wsf2021.net/programa-evento/


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1h59mn

Rosa Thank you Hamouda. Let's see if Damien signs up. I am going to pass the floor to Ivette who has not spoken. Felix I know you raised your hand. Ivette go ahead. 


@047 Ivette 

Hello good day. @1 Well, if it makes me noise that you have brought up the topic of Charter of Principles, because we had already agreed, we have been talking, for a long time, since we wanted to organize the forum in 2020. 


Here you will find documentation on the 2019 organizational process to which Ivette refers with reports of assemblies and organizational discussions http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm20/pfsm20index/#reuniones 


@2 that the wsf charter of principles is not retouched for us. The only thing you have to do is read it. Then in the organization that is up to us, well, as soon as we read the charter of principles.


In an assembly in August 2019, the participants read the charter aloud and it was declared that the facilitating group would respect it, see account http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm20/pfsm20-taller-10y11agosto19/#carta 


@3 Obviously the wsf charter is perfectible, but I think it is a waste of time that we are in the discussion of the Charter of Principles, this, let's move on, the WSF charter is a basic document, (Rosa: Claro) and now, we only have argue. 


@4 The political parties are left out, the militias are left out, it is obvious, we are for the other possible world, this one, from civil society, organized and unorganized

So it is out of context that we are discussing the Charter of Principles. 


Observation on @047-3 

 

Yes. The Charter is perfectible, ... 


B / the essential thing is that it continues to function as a broad ideological location of the world social forum space 


The WSF charter of principles is not a “political program of the forum-actor”

The WSF charter of principles is not a "certificate of importance of the different struggles / actors / issues " - to be elevated to thematic axes with an exhaustive list etc. 

So if there are absences (for example those indicated by damien @048-13) ; these can be considered acceptable in relation to the historical weight of having a document which is 20 years old 


For example, environmental organizations interested in coming to the forum value the end of principle 1, which describes the organizations and movements participating in the forum as " committed to building a planetary society oriented towards a fruitful relationship between human beings and between human beings and the Earth." ., 


C / What is mainly under attack from criticisms of the current charter of principles are rather the conceptualization of what the forum is and the related principles 

These criticisms are expressed in interventions at this meeting and those that preceded (non-exhaustive references XX)

Four main objects of criticism 


0 / the formal and political importance of having a charter of principles for the process - belittling its relevance as done in @036-2 @048-4 


1 / a conceptualization of the forum as an “open space” in the name of which no one can speak, that is mainly criticizing article 1 and article 6 - as done in @043-1 @43-6 @053-4


2 / the criticisms that the forum is not presented as a "space for action", but rather a "space for encounters to articulate actions" . These criticisms are confronted with the efforts made in 2021 that allow to better implement the principle 7 stipulating that the decisions of the participants are made visible by the facilitating group - critique in @029-3  ( see https://join.wsf2021.net/initiatives https://join.wsf2021.net/actions-calendar and https://join.wsf2021.net/agora )


3 / the non-participation of political parties as such see critique in @029-1- and the instant reactions this has aroused in the present meeting 


4 / the option of decision-making by consensus/consent in the IC and the facilitating groups, only for facilitation matters @029-2 @031-1 @36-3 @43-3 & 8 @048- 6 & 8 @053 - 4 - 

It is a pragmatic element that is essential, it does not appear in the charter and is not well described and known, because it is only practiced in the facilitating groups and in the IC - one way to criticize it is to caricature it : see also observation @048-8 

text on consensus practice http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input119-en


From Luz in chat 10:16 PM

GOOD IVETTE OUT OF THE MILITIES AND POLITICAL PARTIES

From Martin in chat: 10-18 PM

Good with Ivette's point, may we all reread the charter as agreement and task

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Rose. Thanks Ivette. I am also going to give the Word to Damien who was called. Damien? Thank you.

2h01mn. Damien

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@048 Damien in Spanish

So I want to talk about two issues.

@1 First of this convocation of the Bahian collective that Hamouda circulated, it took place approximately one year before the World Social Forum . We didn't even have the forum date at the time. 

 

The Bahian collective did it, initially for social movements, for artists, for intellectuals, with the idea of ​​being a more political call, but also with the intention of stimulating the articulation of movements and participation in the construction of the forum.


This was done a year before, and after, while we were building the Social Forum in Salvador, the Bahia collective was replaced by the Brazilian collective, right? therefore, it integrated new organizations and movements from all over Brazil, which already had a solidarity part, but took on another dimension,


Note - these two collectives are a limited, defined list of organizations; 26 organizations for the WSF FG ( faciltating group) 2018, they are not open assemblies - see presentation here: http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended/online-202104-extension2-en@011


@2 We had a series of events or statements, with political content, so what Hamuda said seems fundamental to me. We have to have, in addition to an organizational and operational content, we have to have many productions of political expression that stimulate mobilization and participation .


At the same time, right? Making the relation with the charter of principles, it is true that we face some difficulties with respect to the charter of principles, right? 

@3 And we first realized that the charter of principles, so often cited, is no longer a consensus, right? There are several points, right?

 

@4 If the charter is not a consensus, it is no longer valid , we cannot think that we have to follow the charter of the principles literally.

.

@5 In fact, I agree with Liege, the charter of principles has to be reviewed and re-examined by the IC , and at the same time there are several points that were placed, and that hinder a bit, that hinder the work of the facilitating group.


@6 One of them said, I think Armando, who spoke about the issue of consensus and forums, currently consensus is interpreted as unanimity, 

and what is needed with Leo Gabriel said, @7 that there be a form of consensus that is a broad consensus, a minor consensus, but would be more "consensus by the majority" issue and for valuing divergent opinions, 

@8 but not preventing decisions from being made.

@9 So consensus is not unanimity and this rule of conensus does not appear in the charter of principles


@10 The second point of reasoning that got complicated in the charter of principle is the fact that the World Social Forum cannot take a position, right? (principle 6).


@11 And then, in reality, the forum positions itself for itself, by its own existence. 


@12 But at the same time, the fact of not being able to express political positions, this hinders the political character and especially the emergence of the counter-power against the neoliberal financial power. etc .


@13 And then the political issues within the charter of principles were not integrated ; in fact, during the last twenty years the world has changed. We were facing a neoliberal wave at that moment, when we find ourselves today in a hyperglobalization, neoliberal hyperglobalization. 


This also means that several struggles, that are fundamental today, such as environmental struggles and climate change, do not appear on the card. That is not possible. 

The weight and importance of preservation and the responses of traditional peoples do not appear in the charter The rise of authoritarianism , of the Nazi-fascist governments that we face in Brazil, but also of new rightwing movements throughout Latin America does not appear in the charter. And finally, the new forms of mobilization , right? The new movements that emerged from 2010, mainly from the revolution to the Arab Spring, these new anti-systemic forms, which differ from a large part from an organization of our social movements that are more traditional, let's say, they don't appear enough.


So to conclude, I don't think we should, and going back to Hamouda's idea, it is necessary to have a highly political expression, correct, and more in my opinion,


@14 But there is also no consensus within the IC, to have and to assume more of these political positions, based on a "resignified consensus".


@15 So Basically, and I close here, but I think we should think that politics and operational and organizational , they go together.


@16 And that the charter of principle, even if it is not really, will not be possible to re-signify, here within this space (of FGMX) the charter of principles. 


At the same time you can point out some needs to get back to this, knowing that other grops in IC and other IC people are also pointing out some problems, 


@17 So it is important to systematize these ideas a bit, so that they can be used by IC. Thanks Rose.



Observation on point @048-8 & 9 

It is good to be able to exchange concretely on what type / cases of decisions were prevented, by the use of the decision by consensus / consent and in which facilitating group?, Or in the IC process? , and what are the consequences  ?

Will they be concrete implementation decisions of a forum process? methodological or logistical, that do not change the forum framework?

Will they be decisions that are intended to change in practice the nature of the forum process and the coherence of principles and practices (in relation to observation on @047) ?


It is true that "consensus is not unanimity", and that the option of managing faciliating collectives by consensus / consent is a practice of breaking with well known practices of “democratically” building correlation of forces in closed parliamentary environments, organizations with streams, etc. and See a text by Chico http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input119-en


Using this decision mode can be seen as a "demanding strategic option" to maintain unity in the group that is engaged in the construction of the forum process http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2020-discusionfsm-input117-en without politically implying the member organizations of the facilitating collective in their inter-relationships as participants in the forum


Observation point @048-14

These are parts of the debates that the IC has not had in person, as Hamouda notes on June 12 @014-1 & 2- 

As long as there is no decision to change this principle, the consensus / consent is the one in the preamble of the charter

 “ The principles contained in the Charter - which must be respected by all those who wish to participate in the process and by those who are members of the organization of the new editions of the World Social Forum - This is how it was done in the virtual social forum 2021, The mention of this respect to principles is present in the acts of participation and in the forms to register organizations and activities. https://join.wsf2021.net/
 

Observation point @048-15 

 Facilitating collectives can produce texts on their behalf with outreach mobilzation purpose that have an ideological location compatible with that of the charter or be somewhat more specific. 

The important thing is that potential participants understand that these texts do not compromise them as future participants, and that the entry criteria to the “open space of the WSF forum, remains the respect of the principles and sharing generic goal values ​​in the charter of principles wsf

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@049 2h06

Rosa Thank you very much Damien. I think that with this reflection of Damien and Hamuda we can close this point. I'm going to give the floor to Felix and Oscar. 


@1 I think we need to read the charter, those of us who are from the facilitating group, to be aware that it exists, and all that it implies. 


@2 It is a navigation chart , of course as Damien says there are elements that we have to add, which are not there, because they did not exist 20 years ago , and that the International Council group is the one who makes a more thorough review of the charter , and to summon us ( as mexican facilitating collective) as necessary, 


@3 I think that and as the Bahian collective (Damien) has done, we can make some additions, reflections, regarding the Mexican reality that we are promoting. Felix?


Observation; dot @049-1

Beyond reading the charter and exchanging to better understand it, the GFMX collective can also assume that it will be its reference in its implementation of the WSF forum 2022 process , - since it is understood that, in the current context of discussions in the IC, the charter would remain as is to Mexico, -


As stipulated in the preamble of the charter "The principles contained in the Charter - which must be respected by all who wish to participate in the process and by those who are members of the organizing of the new editions of the World Social Forum" https://wsf2021.net/fsm2021/340-2/ 


note -In the facilitation group of the European social forum in 2003, each member organization was asked for an “official” signed document ratifying their agreement with the principles of the forum 


Observation; dot @049-2 What does the image of the navigation chart mean?

The charter gives you a north at the level of the “what”: what is the forum for, what is it for? 

The charter exposes a vision of the forum, but gives you few “hows”. how to implement the process 

Then to navigate to the comos; is the methodological accumulation in the IC 

Due to lack of operation of the IC methodology committee for 10 years, it has not been systematized from this committee, if there are personal inputs such as a synthetic formulation here http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en-table3 )

And there are the guiding principles for organizing a wsf event approved in 2008 the IC http://openfsm.net/projects/organizingwsfevents/guiding-principles-en  

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@50 From Pierre in chat: 10:23 PM

@1 Agreeing with Damien @048 that "consensus is not unanimity " and the idea is that whenever whoever who does not agree with a "consensus formulation", proposed after a discussion in the facilitating group, nevertheless agrees to accept the decision and remain in the collective, this is called "consent", 

If there is no consent, this invites to postpone decisions as far as possible and to mature the discussion to find "a new formulation of consensus" that limits the name of people who do not agree with it, and that all accept it


@2 an example of a “consensus formulation”, achieved at the end of a discussion with divergences, can be found at an IC meeting in January 2017 in Porto Alegre, on a proposal by the Bahiano WSF collective to organize an WSF in 2018 in Salvador de Bahia . http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended/ci-portoalegre-201701-notas-21tarde see the intervention of Mauri @181 where a "consensus formulation" is proposed that was accepted by all those present. http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended/ci-portoalegre-201701-notas-21tarde/#181 


This is the practice of the "consensus / consent" decision mode, only in the practical context in a facilitating group, only for decisions that have to do with the facilitation of the forum as a facilitating group - see text  http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input119-en  


Another example of formulation in 2013 in the IC of Casablanca   http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/casa13-report-en/#18-5-3 


Observation on point @050 

The WSF principles do not mention the facilitating collectives, but only in the preamble and without entering into their operation. These collectives are organized to be successful in their project of building a forum process, and the option of using consensus / consent is an element to be in breaking with the procedures of "confrontation of force" that voting allows in a confrontational environment, and rather seeking instead to maintain a unity that is only to build the process /space of the forum, and not to influence the political identity of each participating organization 6 http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input119-en


The use of a consensus decision protocol is not prescribed in the rest of the forum space; where discussions and political articulation agreements between autonomous organizations are made freely, 


Participants in the forum space make voluntary agreements 

1 / they can simply coexist in the same forum space ( virtual or physical) without relationships, without encounter - 

2 / they can agree to dialogue together on a topic of common interest, through "activities", and without further commitment,  https://join.wsf2021.net/activities

3 / they can agree to engage in concrete "initiatives of action" together by taking public action. https://join.wsf2021.net/initiatives

 

A reformulation of principle 6 ( no one can speak in the name of the forum) may be that "no organization is reputed to agree with a specific position, simply because this organization has come in the forum space, or comes to an assembly or activity, or participates in the facilitating group for the forum. What is needed is explicit approval by a participant for that position/ decision
 

 

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@051 2h07mn Felix 

Well thank you Rosi. In fact, you've already done half the work for me.

I wanted to emphasize right now what the agreements could be to close the point, and I see that the agreements can be two. 

@1 This group brings to the International Committee the need to form a commission to review the Charter of Principles. First agreement. 


@2 Second agreement. we, as a forum faciliating group in Mexico, agreed to form a working group that will contribute to this commission , not only from the perspective of the Mexico as a country, but of the process of the forum in Mexico. 


I think those could be the two agreements that could come out of this work, unless someone wanted to add it to modify it, and almost with that, and naturally hearing Oscar who has the floor, let's close the point.

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@052 Rosa Thank you. and add that "we Mexicans read the charter"

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@053 Oscar

@1 Yes well, there are some of us who have not only read it, but have also written about the charter, and have pointed out the difficulties and contradictions within the charter, and therefore the need to redefine and update those principles,


 Text from oscar http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2020-discusionfsm-input2a-en inconsistencies and inconsistencies 

reply to Chico http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2020-discusionfsm-input55-en

 Chico s text https://senospermitemsonhar.wordpress.com/2020/12/15/a-contribution-to-the-debate-on-the-future-of-the-wsf-chico-whitaker/ or here http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2020-discusionfsm-input74-en 


@2 But as we can see, very different positions are already manifesting , and it is logical, it is natural, 

There are those who think, as was said now, that the charter is good, that you just have to read it, and we think that you have to review it, and thoroughly also, precisely so that you have that navigation chart, as Rosi says, but you have to remember that it is sail in different seas and oceans, not just one


@3 So who and how will participate will continue to participate in this navigation? Well, the two agreements that Félix proposes seem to me to be quite clear and conclusive.


Then the next step would surely be how to form part of the commission that deals with the charter and that maintains the relationship with the International Council , obviously that is essential. 


@4 So there, make a minimum agenda, and see how we are going to proceed, and above all to make decisions that I think are thought through "democratic means": "simple majorities" or "qualified majorities", depending on the issues we define . Nothing more for now


See a series of documents on discussion points about the future of the WSF, the principles of the WSF, the role of IC the decision protocol in the IC etc https://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/



Observation on @053-2 

Several interventions (Mario @039-3 Daniela @061-6 express concerns about the energy that these discussions about the charter will consume in the Mexican community, which will not be invested to build and grow the process, WSF 2022 - remembering that with In all probability WSF 2022 will be built with the current charter since there will be no conditions for a face-to-face IC meeting before WSF 2022 where a discussion on the principles could be on the agenda and with a consensus formulation that would receive consensus/consent from all member organizations

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@054 From Martin in chat: 10:26 PM

The charter says by consensus decision making. This is not a legal legislative branch


Observation on @054: 

The charter does not stipulate that the decision protocol of the IC or a group facilitating the social forum process - 

So it is the experience, reflection and practical conviction carried by the facilitating collectives, without exception historically to date, to use this consensus/consent decision protocol for facilitation matters. The organizing committee of WSF2001 WSF 2002 and WSF 2003 functioned formally like this see the text http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input117-en
 

The IC works like this  http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input119-en , 


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@055 From Guadalupe in chat: 10:28 PM

Since 2018, we have started the effort for the Forum in Mexico, postponing it, and this is an opportunity to actually update our Charter and experience the proposals, therefore, the task in any case is that those who link us with the IC, see this important point.

 

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@056 From pierre in chat: 10:31 PM

This facilitating collective has not defined its decision protocol so far, while all the WSF event facilitation collectives up to now have decided that they practiced “the consensus/consent decision protocol” for facilitation decisions - so it is worth clarifying this in anticipation of the next assembly - see intervention @058 


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@057 Rosa Thank you Oscar. I would like to close this point, point out two things 


There is a part of the agenda but we have 4 minutes left to close the meeting according to the stipulated time,

@1 and I believe that we do not carry out tasks, I believe that the commissions that we have to work on are left to one side,


@2 the IC is given a mandate from this space, from this meeting, to work on the part of the Charter of Principles, to think who would be doing this review, and the facilitating group.


@3 And I think we can self-convene as a Mexican facilitating group to an assembly as you remember, we made a parenthesis (of 3 joint meetings with IC )to learn about the history, about the charter and all that it implies ,and I think we have had a very rich process of reflection.

http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22index meetings may 22 june 12, july 26

So if we think that we could meet to prepare all that meeting and that it be face-to-face, trying to make it face-to-face in Mexico City, for proposing that it be for July 24,  ( actually was postponed to augsut 7th)


@4 That we give that time to prepare and that in this meeting as an assembly, we decide in assembly who could be part of this commission, who could be part of this review, 


@5 And other commissions that we urgently need to do, we have already reviewed as a facilitating group for what has to do with Communication, with infrastructure, with the methodological part, international mobilization,


@6 And that we have to be in dialogue with the IC International Council


On how will this dialogue with the IC be organized? 

see meeting of April 24 ICwhere the issue began to be discussed - http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-extended/online-202104-extension2-en intervention @025 - @030-2 @033 a @046 

 


I think we don't have more time to discuss this part of the commissions, but I think that with that task we will be able to leave as they see you colleagues?

@7 so we meet as a facilitating group at the assembly on June 24th. ( august 7th)


I think that we will follow the debate in the International Council and later in the facilitating group and that after a moment we can find a meeting point between the IC and the Mexican facilitating group because we have to be in interaction.


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@058 Pierre He just mentioned and I tried to explain in the chat that 


@1 in the entire history of the forum's events, the 14 world WSF events, the practice has always been that the facilitating collectives decide by consensus/consent the issues that affect the construction of the forum


@2 Consensus is not unanimity, for sure , and there is a whole practice of what it is, looking for "consensus formulations" so that few people disagree, and to see if if everyone agrees or consents - it really is a whole thing, it is not a kind of block unanimously , and does not touch the autonomous decisions of the organizations in political actos ( of their participation in the forum).


description of the boy consensus method http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input119-en


I simply say that what the experience is, I am not getting involved (Rosa : Clear) and it seems to me @ 3 that so far, this group that is being formed as a facilitating collective, has not touched the point of its decision protocol.



@058 Rosa, Clear we have to do that Pierre, in the Assembly, this is pending since our last meeting. Well if not. I don't know who the word, first to Martín and Félix, and then to Daniela.

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@059 Martin. Very fast. 


@1 Nothing more than the discussion about the charter, at the next meeting on July 24, needs to have more or less some conduction , that is, what would we have to discuss to form the commission, what will be the role of that commission? 


@2 At a given moment, for example , maintain the very clear principles of what the WSF charter is, in terms of "space of encounters " and relationships and networking, and on the other hand what Pierre says , that is the consensus that governs the center of charter and from there you can see the rest.


@3 And the other point I think we should take what Pierre says and the work protocol.


@4 And in this meeting, see when we are going to do this face-to-face meeting, hopefully the conditions are there, and I continue to say that we will think about it and we agree on it within a month, towards August the date that you want.


Observation 

The fact of making a decision with a consensus/consent protocol is made easier by the fact of having a fixed group of stable organizations with few changes in time , which allows people to get to know each other , as has been the case in all the groups facilitating salvador forums, going from 20 to 24 organizations in the course of one year . now it is possible to use it in open assembly - the experience of the indians of WSF 2004 could be useful see http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-insumo8-en and http://openfsm.net/projects/dibco1/dibco1-2021-discusionfsm-input119-en  

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@060 2h15

Felix Only

@1 How I agree to this third point would be that we will convene a General Assembly for July 24


@2 But the complement, Rosy, would it be when as a preparatory group we met to prepare that meeting and the more precise agenda?

What would be the complementary part of the agreement, and that point could be closed, without stopping listening to the missing colleagues,

@3 but to be clear about the agreements that I will send you later in writing as well. 

 

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Rosa thank you Felix. Daniela


@061 Daniela - 


@1 Yes. This next face-to-face meeting on July 24 seems very important to me , we would agree, 


@2 Above all, I believe that this date would also be very important to concretize, as Rosi raised, the issue of commissions, 


That I do believe, it seems to me that it is already very opportune, and it is very urgent that we begin to shape them just to be able to give shape to all the activities that we already have to operate, then towars the course of the forum; is nt it? 


@3 So, it would seem very important to me and well, I consider that this meeting, rather than talking about the charter, I think I should make it more operative in this sense from my point of view, why? 

Because that discussion is a very political discussion, and that would get us into a lot of discussions, that is, I think that this from the charter gives us the opportunity to discuss how Rozy says. 


@4 First of all, there are going to be even more organizations and people who need to know the charter well first, and many many who are just now getting close to the faciltating group or to the forum. 


@5 Well, it is also a time to go deeper, and even to share with our own communities and colleagues, because many organizations are new to this process, because they do not know the charter. 


@6 So I think it would be like a point, where it is good if we can make this reflection, (on the charter) but that we do not concentrate on it, but on what follows already in the more operative works. This is my point of view. Thanks. 


Observation on point @061-5

Daniela pointed to the didactic challenge of presenting the forum principles to organizations and how to comment on the charter with them, there are some materials / available “colored version” http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en-colorized
 

version in 3 columns showing principles and their implementation in the forms of participation http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en-table3 )

transcription of a workshop on the WSF principles in brazil http://openfsm.net/projects/espacios-oe/event2021-fsmjd-notas7-en

Also elements to be found here for a didactic workshop thought in August 2019 in Mexico  http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm20/pfsm20-taller-10y11agosto19/

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@062 Oscar 

just half a minute for a very specific proposal 

@1 that we have a preparatory meeting for the 24th and could be on Saturday , July 10 or 17, especially to prepare for the 24th, okay? http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm20/pfsm20-taller-10y11agosto19


@063 Rosa

@1 If I noted in the chat that preparatory is on July 10, and we still invite you to organize everything you have to do and create the session, if you agree it would be on June 10 we can meet at 10 a.m. from Mexico so that those from Tijuana who are so far away do not get up early. 


@2 And the Assembly would have to defined there if we do it for the whole day, about 6 hours or only 3 hours , why the meeting is worthwhile I think we have, to define the time that the meeting would take, we can define it At the June 10 meeting, we can still ask for a proposal before the preparatory meeting, to get an idea of ​​where your points could go. Agree?


Felix wrote it down. It would be July 10 at 10 a.m. I write it down.

 

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@064 2h18mn Rosa

Thank you very much for your presence, I think the deep reflection has been very rich, and it challenges us to build the World Social Forum that we want , surely there are going to have many movements

Thanks Hamouda, thanks to all the IC colleagues who were present, and we are going to reconvene for the next meeting that is to come. 

A hug thanks to Sonia Daniel Carlos Andrés in the interpretation, who always helps us a lot to understand and bridge the gaps. 

Then see you a hug bye. 


VERBAL PRESENTATION OF PARTICIPANTS OF THE MEETING

When it exists, the link to the organization's presentation is given at https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations

  1. Liege: (CI) Brazilian Union of Women https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/5595 FDIM https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/4342 More than 50 voted in congress as parliamentary support for civil society , in the majority of the congress with the president and the chamber, social movement in Brazil scheduled on July 24, there is another demonstration, the latter the demonstrations in the pandemic returned with masks to avoid that if contagion and avoid crowds, more demonstrations continue against the military dictatorship and Never more dictatorship movement is growing, of course there was international solidarity of support with Europe, South America, North America support with Brazil. Time of cultural manifestation, Brazil is happiness.
  2. Leo from Vienna Austria do (CI) s organizations, one against unemployment (euromarches) and another Prague spring 2 network https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/7191 are part of the far-right network around the world, but more in Austria.
  3. Félix my local organization FLACEP https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/1074 is popular economy member of CEAAL and member of the center for international strategic studies, of the world social forum. He had been participating in the facilitating group and renewal group of the world social forum.
  4. Paula president of the association of parents in Yucatán, association of the national observatory of the state for violence, we must and work for the human rights of adolescent boys and girls, parents and women as well.
  5. Pierre: (CI) representative of Caritas https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/876 in the international council I work in support of the forum of different kinds.
  6. Daniela I am the international coordinator of the Observatory of Human Rights of the Peoples of Oaxaca Mexico
  7. Melisa comes from the UNAM political, cultural and artistic association are participating for the Cervantes
  8. Pedro president of ALAMPYME Mexico and vice president of ALAMPYME international (Latin American association of micro, small, and medium entrepreneurs) we are 9 countries working together.
  9. María de Lourdes secretary of administrative organization of the UNESCU of the UNAM of the national union of workers of the autonomous region of Mexico
  10. Malú belongs to the popular education group of the network of women in Mexico and the Caribbean.
  11. Camelia sings author and belongs to the UNAM
  12. Mario participates in the Mexican community market network and they are in 20 states of Mexico, his organization is called SEPICJ, the comprehensive youth community commission, and they are in the state of Puebla https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/13897
  13. Sol I am general counselor for women's rights and is part of the constructive council of human rights of the peoples of Oaxaca
  14. Armando de Brasil (CI) field activist of the council of the world social forum on health and social security, https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/10655 thematic spaces, is a member of the global constructive council on health issues.
  15. Ricardo journalist from cenzontle https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/6849 from the house of the people of Mexico; Another month without the 43 normalistas from Ayotzinapa alive, they were taken away and we saw that we love them.
  16. Alejandro I am part of the international committee of the world liberation forum https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/5967, theologians from all over the continent meet.
  17. Adalberto community magazine from the North of Mexico City, conditions to grow.
  18. Luz soy arteboy arte y cultura group works for children.
  19. Ernesto popular union valle Gómez popular alliance of inhabitants
  20. Miriam I belong to the sociological research group of Veracruz
  21. Valentina, I am a trans activist, is co-owner of the commission of people from the LGBT community and more and brings together more than 200 organizations nationwide, editor of the magazine madero 39.
  22. Rubén collaborates with ALAMPYME financial study and costs for micro and medium companies the only factor of change. (https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/6919)
  23. Miguel of the House of the Peoples Mexico
  24. Andy Alicia research group
  25. Guadalupe I belong to the renovating group of the forum here in (Mexico 4T feminist movement.
  26. Cesar Mexican Council of Tlaxcala (https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/890 of tlaxcala)
  27. Gabriel ecological partner illustration of the Veracruzana university
  28. José Guadalupe CDMX Mexican social secretariat and ecclassial observatory https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/3353 with topics of social justice, human rights and social ideology.
  29. Damien (CI) Brazil member of the world council where I represent the facilitating group of the world social forum 2018
  30. Socrates represents the political commission of the coordinator of university unions, higher education, research and culture, which groups together 50 university unions in Mexico.
  31. Tere Acosta National Coordinator of the National Assembly of Electric Power Users.
  32. José Martin I am part of Comcausa civil association we work in defense of territories with the Mexican alliance for the self-determination of the peoples, works in Central America in the Mesoamerican forum of the peoples and in campaigns without corn there is no country, defense of children in Oaxaca sex education for teens.
  33. Sara belongs to the national gender and economy network, a Latin American network transforming the economy https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/1003 There are 5 countries, they are in 5 feminist networks, but they have not yet been released.
  34. Lidia Alejandra Collaborator of the new popular citizen constituents for the right to water and collaborates with the renovating group of the world social forum
  35. Rosy (CI) general coordinator of the popular council of Latin America and the Caribbean CEAAL https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations/1302 I am also part of the international council of the world social forum representing CEAAL are present in 21 countries



The chat 


From Raúl -SUTIEMS: 04:13 PM

I sign up to participate

From Rosy: 04:17 PM

Raúl, Félix, Rosy, Martín


From Carlos: 04:18 PM

Prezad @s companheir @​s, we are participating - this same hour - of the General Assembly of the WSFJD World Social Forum Justiça e Democracia. I will try to attend a video of this meeting. I will be connected here, enquanto for possível, but accompanying the debates in a limited way. Abraços e bom found

From Rosy: 04:20 PM

Thanks Tiburcio.

Rosy, Martin


From Pierre: 04:22 PM

Here the transcript June 12 http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-en

 allows to identify dialogue clues with informative links - points are highlighted that can be commented 

You can look up words in this text for example "permanent" "mixed" "articulation" etc - and see the different facets in which it was used 

From José Guadalupe - Mexican Social Secretariat: 04:23 PM

Martin, Hamouda ... on shifts


From Guadalupe: 04:24 PM

I agree that it is necessary to convene in Mexico to better specify future work.


From Pierre: 04:26 PM

Here sharing the current status of an international event calendar http://openfsm.net/projects/wsf2012-support/wsf2021-calendar/#lista 

From Rosy: 04:27 PM

Thanks Pierre


From Pierre: 04:32 PM

an event = a manifestation in the WSF process of some size (with several activities in general) 

The list will continue to expand.

As was said at the June 12 meeting 

We have tools that allow us to become visible in the forum process from now on https://join.wsf2021.net/organizations - international mobilization and in Mexico can be reflected here 

list of organizations from Mexico https://join.wsf2021.net/?q=%2Forganizations&display_name=&country=1140 and can be viewed for each country


From Liege: 04:37 PM

I think that there is a lack of calling for this meeting that only took place on Instagram, where there are only 60 members of IC. Não foi feita by e-amil ...

From Ricardo: 04:37 PM

I ask for the floor Ricardo


From Pierre: 04:40 PM

Having initiative / pronouncement “on behalf of the forum” as proposed by Oscar is in contradiction with the principles of the forum (principle 6) - hence the importance of understanding well and absorbing the principles of the WSF https://wsf2021.net/fsm2021/340-2/ 


From Guadalupe 04:44 PM

Regarding what was expressed by Leo, I consider that it is important for the WSF to have the vision of embracing, or incorporating in its own agenda and its themes, the struggles that are already raised at the world and regional level by others, organized regarding the major problems generated by the capitalist system, that is, it is not necessary that we initiate efforts from the beginning, but with voice, echo, strengthen with support to those strategies that are already proposed and make a presence, and add them to those that we build internally from our themes. 


From Pierre: 04:44 PM

@Felix I understand that the report document is a working instrument and does not imply that what it contains are decisions 


About the charterof principles - there are 25 occurrences of the word "letter" in the transcript of June 12 http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-reunion-12junio21-en

Thi charter 

1 / ideologically locates the forum space / process with generic values ​​/ goals / actions of the participants 

2 / gives conceptual elements about what the forum is and not what it is, to guide facilitating groups and participants in the implementation and practical use of the WSF 

see the links indicated in point @035 of the transcript


From Armando: 04:53 PM

It is necessary to change the idea of ​​consensus as the only way to decide ... the idea of ​​consensus is a liberal fallacy that eliminates the political possibility of agonism that implies recognizing that there are conflicts that define Lo Politico ... the essential and that opens the possibility to discuss with Politics ... which finds expression in movements, political parties and states ... the integral state of Gramsci ... we have to face the complexity of the Politic and of the Politics in order to face conflicts, even because the Civil society is' deeply divided ideologically and this must be faced in order to build the possible and necessary political actions that emerge from the debates with majorities and minorities ...

From Rosy: 04:54 PM

Leo, Felix, Mario


From Pierree: 04:54 PM

 It is important to appreciate that the idea of ​​"deciding by consensus" is to make decisions in a facilitating group about the implementation of a forum process - IT IS NOT FOR DECISIONS of a political nature that are made in articulations between organizations 

From Armando: 04:54 PM

Armando asks to speak

From Rosy: 04:55 PM

Oscar, Felix, Mario, Armando


From Pierre: 04:57 PM

On the action part, here is a "story" of how the actions of the participants are made visible in the space of the input forum in the meeting May 22, on ways to show articulation for action of participants in the forum http://openfsm.net/projects/pfsm22/pfsm22-insumo7-en 

From Rosy: 04:58 PM

Felix, Mario, Armando, Rosy


From Guadalupe: 04:59 PM

Many parties are generated from social movements. As organized entities they can be structurally strengthened to advance in causes coinciding with those of the WSF. What there may be are certain basic rules for the participation of the parties in the WSF, because the WSF has to unite all efforts for another possible world, from our internal democracy.


From Hector: 05:00 PM

It is the third session that is dedicated to history and what is established in the WSF. I will not intervene in this, as I have not done so far. At the end of today is a space, as an appendix, on commissions. I do not see it coming. From my point of view, it is necessary to think about a Mexican assembly in shape and perhaps already in person to advance firmly on the organizational route. And the IC must now focus more than in the past, on the forward slopes, which are many

De Liege - à tout le monde: 05:01 PM

I think that by instância that can update the Charter of Principles é o IC do WSF


From Pierre: 05:03 PM

 https://wsf2021.net/fsm2021/340-2/ 

http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en

(on this page a "colored version" is proposed http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en-colorized 

and a version that shows principles and their implementation in the forms of participation 

http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en-table3 )

also here a transcription of a workshop on the principles in brazil 

http://openfsm.net/projects/espacios-oe/event2021-fsmjd-notas7-en 

 

Regarding the decision-making in the facilitating group GFMX - a practice established since the beginning of the WSF process worldwide 14 events since the facilitating groups - for what concerns facilitation decisions use a consensus decision protocol 

this allows the unity of the facilitating group to be maintained 

 In other words, organizations that have diverse and even divergent political options in the content of their participation can nevertheless cooperate in the same facilitating group in unity to implement the process that they undertake together to make happen.


From hamouda *: 05:05 PM

Decalracion of the Bahian collective

for the WSF Bahia


From Damien: 05:05 PM

Thanks Hamouda and good reminder

From Diakalia: 05:05 PM

bonjour juste vous saluer Ouattara diakalia du FSA Côte d'Ivoire


From Pierre: 05:05 PM

"The principles contained in the Charter - which must be respected by all those who wish to participate in the process and by those who are members of the organization of the new editions of the World Social Forum" (preamble to the WSF charter) 

https://wsf2021.net/fsm2021/340-2/ 

In other words, in practice the GFMX has to respect the principles to organize WSF 2022


From Guadalupe à tout le monde: 05:08 PM

Mainly because Perre says so


From Pierre: 05:14 PM

Until now, the GFMX has not clearly exchanged on which is its decision protocol in the construction of the forum from the facilitating group - 

The practice is that these decisions are made by consensus 

Again the consensus / consent is not relevant in the inter-organizational decisions in their articulations

It is good to clarify what seems to be a confusion - the decision protocol by consensus / consent is practiced in the facilitating group to maintain the unity of this group and that the forum space that is thus constructed is friendly to all participants - -

On the other hand, the same organizations that cooperate in the facilitating group can feed dynamics of different activities and initiatives according to political differences between them. 


From Damien: 05:15 PM

I sign up then

From Rosy: 05:15 PM

Damien, Felix


From Guadalupe: 05:16 PM

Today's agenda: 

This will be the meeting agenda: 1) Return of the synthesis of the groups. (The commission shares)

2) Questions about the WSF Charter of Principles. 

3) Creation of minimum Commissions.


From Pierre: 05:16 PM

According to the point of view expressed by Ivette - the discussion about the charter is to understand the charter, it is not to change it 

From Moon: 05:16 PM

GOOD IVETTE OUT OF THE MILITIES AND POLITICAL PARTIES

From Martin: 05:18 PM

Good with Ivette's point, may we all reread the charter s agreement and task


From Pierre: 05:23 PM

Agreeing that "consensus is not unanimity", but the idea is that whoever does not agree with a "consensus formulation" in the facilitating group, nevertheless consents to the decision, agrees to remain in the group,

This invites us to postpone decisions and mature to find "consensus formulation" that limits the name of people who do not agree with it. 

This is the practice of the "art of consensus" in a practical context. 


From Liege: 05:25 PM

As Commissions that will be raised will be do GF do Mexico?

Vou specify sair agora

From Rosy: 05:25 PM

Sim Liege.

From Liege: 05:25 PM

okay. Hugs

From Pierre: 05:26 PM

I ask for the floor if possible


From Martin: 05:26 PM

The charter says by consensus decision making. This is not a legal legislative branch

From Ernesto UPVG e: 05:28 PM

IT IS URGENT TO HOLD AN ASSEMBLY ON JULY 24


From Guadalupe: 05:28 PM

Since 2018, we have started the effort for the Forum in Mexico, postponing it, and this is an opportunity to actually update our Charter and experience the proposals, therefore, the task in any case is that those who link us with the IC, see this important point.


From Ernesto UPVG =: 05:30 PM

PRESENTIAL ASSEMBLY ON JULY 24 WITH A BROAD AGENDA THAT INCLUDES COMMISSIONS, ETC CHARTER


From Pierre: 05:31 PM

This facilitating collective has not defined its decision protocol so far, while all WSF collectives until now (14 editions) have been left with the fact that they practiced the decision protocol by consensus - so it is worth clarifying this in anticipation of the next Assembly


From Sara: 05:32 PM

Pierre, a great favor, the links that you have put in this chat about the charter, if you can put it in the WSF chat so that it remains accessible

From Pierre: 05:32 PM

This is also an experience transfer point. 

DePierre: 05:33 PM

Sara, what is it that you call the WSF chat?

As a non-Mexican IC member, I am not currently included in the GFMX telegram group

From Sara: 05:33 PM

There is a WSF Telegram chat from where we are summoned, Rosy is the administrator


From Carmen: 05:33 PM

yes according to the date 

From Guadalupe: 05:34 PM

Rosi, according to the dates, both July 10 and 24, 2021

From Tere: 05:35 PM

Greetings to all ANUEE PRESENT AT THE WSF