• sfex facilit meeting 4

last modified April 12, 2011 by facilitfsm

sfex facilit meeting page

april 12 meeting


Start. 1

Menu of the day  - extensionbyoc page. 1

Welcome Taffy f. 1

Picking issues in our agenda list. 2

Concept Letter to OC. 2

Some general questions. 3

3 Priorities of the day. 3

Point 1 where to locate the extension team?. 4

Reading the links  of earlier meetings. 5

About option 3. 6

Kiss is back – opinion to locate extension team in methodology commission. 6

Extended  - event – extended event …; 7

including local participants in the event – extension in simple words. 7

Digesting extension in various commissions. 8

How is the decision of locating “extension team” made ?. 8

Exchange with Aaman on team location. 9

Preparing a contribution on SASF extension for may meeting. 10

More questions on extension by oc  and other issues. 10

Point 2 - Ongoing work on concept letters. 11

Point 3 - Facebook  for  sfex outreach. 11

Comparing facebook and openfsm for our group usage. 11

Points to continue from this meeting. 12

Meeting Transcription and bye. 12



[13:04:15] Ana : Hello!

[13:56:53] Pierre: salut

[13:57:10] Pierre: 12 GMT

[13:57:37] Pierre: hello Ana Aaman KIss

[13:58:00] Aaman: Halo everyone

[13:58:08] Kiss: hi Pierre and Ana

[13:58:47] Aaman: I wl join u after 10 minutes

[13:59:00] Pierre: ok

[14:53:36] Zarel: hi Emile!

[14:53:41] EMILE: hello everybody

 [14:54:01] Ana : Hi Emile!

[15:52:54] Chubatyj Vitalij: Hi! Sorry of such late connect, I've been at work.

[15:53:36] Zarel: Vitalij, hi!


Menu of the day  - extensionbyoc page

[14:00:58] Pierre: referring to possible agenda topics


[14:01:16] Ana : ok

[14:01:19] Pierre: let us make the menu of today

[14:02:29] Pierre: Ana , did you see the lettertooc page in the "extensionbyoc" area ? in area 3 of agenda elements  :) there is  link  "extensionbyoc home"

[14:04:26] Ana : no...I don't know...I'm going to search for it

[14:04:35] Ana : Hello Zarel :)

[14:04:40] Zarel: Hello Ana, Pierre, Amaan, Kiss

[14:04:48] Zarel: ¡Buenos días!

Welcome Taffy f

[14:06:21] *** Pierre a invité Tafadzwa ***

[14:06:34] Pierre: hello Tafadzwa ! welcome, introducing Tafadzwa from zimbabwe

[14:07:58] Ana : hello Tafadzwa!

[14:08:08] Tafadzwa: hie there

[14:09:18] Pierre: Tafadzwa is friend of Sara and she participated in dakar extended

please Tafadzwa introduce yourself and your relation to upcoming SASF

[14:09:58] Kiss: hi tafadzwa

[14:10:24] Tafadzwa: hie everyone

[14:11:27] Tafadzwa: My name is Tafadzwa.call me Taffy for short ...I am a member of the SASF Regional Committee but i have also been  participating  in the social forum processes since 2003 and co-ordinated the Zimbabwe Social Forum in 2004 and 2005

[14:12:09] Tafadzwa: I give my ideas and technical advice to the SASF processes taking into account that I was also instrumental in co-ordinating the 2nd edition of the SASF that was held in Harare ,Zimbabwe in October 2005

Picking issues in our agenda list

[14:12:45] Pierre: thanks tafadzwa ! - this is  sfex facilit group biweekly meeting, and we are in a building phase, our agenda scope is broad and we have to picka few issues for today (duration 90mn)

picking issues from here  http://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom/sfexagendaelements

on the table we have  - situation /discusion from organizers point of view in SASF aisa and africa

see in domain 3 of the page the "extensionbyoc home" link, meaning extension by oc,  oc= organizing comittee

some question are being discussed out of chat and we can focus a bit on them


[14:17:18] Pierre: this is the home page for what refers to extension seen from event organizers point of view .. nearly a blank page, but we can elaborate together ...

[14:17:33] Tafadzwa: I saw the questions thanks

[14:17:58] Pierre: you see that two issues have a page  - the one about "where to locate"  the extension group, and the one about” what if we write a letter to an oc” ?

See Point 2 below  - Concept Letter to OC

 [14:18:22] Zarel: so we begin with ?? the letter?

[14:18:51] Pierre: why not?

[14:18:55] Ana : ok

[14:19:38] Pierre: please review this short letter in work in progress stage

[14:20:42] Tafadzwa: ok

[14:20:53] Pierre: it is not a letter to be sent to a specific organizing committee , but rather a  letter trying to help us  position our group towards event organizers, being understood that in the sfex facilit group we have participants from several OCs

[14:21:38] Zarel: so we have the questions Pierre write in the page  (http://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom/extensionbyoc-home ) but the questions in mail doc too, right?

[14:22:50] Pierre: please specify them zarel , the list of questions is open  - on one side we try to formulate relevant questions, and then we try to answer them

Some general questions

[14:23:20] Zarel: for example difference between openfsm and sfex if there is one ?

[14:25:50] Zarel: and what is the goal? / intention? / objectives? of Social Forum EXtended group?

[14:26:41] Pierre: suggestion : we can list these new questions , we have no time to answer them now , unless we think it is a priority for today , and we  can elaborate on the sfex facilit mailing list

[14:27:14] Zarel: and if this are prudent questions and of interest of other people here? or we can just "go by"

[14:27:27] Zarel: ok  - Ana, are you there? what do you think?

[14:29:30] Ana : I'm here, I'm thinking :)

[14:33:12] Ana : I agree with the definition of the goals, intention, objectives of SFEX, and I guess the letter touches parts of those aspects..No?

3 Priorities of the day

 [14:29:51] Zarel: @Pierre, What are the "priorities for today"?

[14:28:32] Tafadzwa: I do agree with Zarel ........ and I also think that other players in organising regional social forums especially from the Southern African side also need to be part of this process as well

 [14:30:23] Pierre: @ Tafadzwa - sfex facilit group cannot grow indefinitely but it an give rise to specific working groups - and this gets us to the question  " how to make OC “own” the extension issue ...in case of SASF lusaka i know that this is already a concrete concern shared by Sara Kiss you

(point 1) i think  that given the fact that kiss and you are here , this issue can be commented a bit today  in our limited time

(point 2) also we need to give a feedback to ana and share the initiative of drafting generic letters which is a good way to compare visions between us  this could be a second issue

( point 3)  a third issue was proposed by zarel about facebook groups

[14:34:45] Tafadzwa: @Pierre, now it's clear.. thanks

[14:35:45] Pierre: we are picking issues in the long list of  http://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom/sfexagendaelements

according to who is present and what was said before the chat on the mailing list

[14:38:42] Pierre: so we go through the three points on SASF lusaka / udpate ?( a very concrete question  how to have OC own extension and where to locate the extension team  -  then give a time for the letter draft ? then facebook ?

[14:38:59] Ana : ok

Point 1 “where” to locate the extension team?

[14:39:18] Pierre: so point 1 ,with the starter here


[14:39:40] Tafadzwa: okay

[14:39:49] Zarel: Sara won't attend? but here are Kiss and Taffy :) And Amaan

[14:40:08] Pierre: Kiss Tafadzwa floor is yours, and Aaman also !

 [14:40:35] Tafadzwa: I propose that Kiss leads the discussion and I follow suit

[14:40:55] Pierre: it is good to be able to have views from lusaka and from dhaka on the same question!

[14:41:02] Tafadzwa: I saw the link, my contribution is that we locate the core extension team in the media commission since they have the technical expertise in co-ordinating the extended activities..what's your take Kiss?

[14:42:00] Pierre: please not that the twin question is " how to make OC own extension?"

[14:42:10] Tafadzwa: okay......Hello Kiss? are u there?  if Sara was also here, she could also guide us on what needs to be focused on ... truly speaking ... if Kiss is not around, maybe we can move to another group- what do others say?

[14:44:59] Zarel: Taffy, what are the objects of the "media commision"? and the "range" inside OC general commité?

 [14:46:08] Tafadzwa: in most cases, the media commission is the heartbeat of the social form process, they are the ones repsonsible for publicidng the forum,facilitating the information to other social movements... i can say the commission is the communication hub of the forum

[14:45:48] Ana : I agree to discuss this point with and when the others will get here.

 [14:46:12] Tafadzwa: Thanks Ana, sorry about that colleagues

[14:47:05] Pierre: well Taffy , i have a different experience  in other events :in the sense that extension is not only a question of "communication", when the “extension ratio”  of the event is important , meaning the ratio of number of extended activities to the total number of activities, then you bump into methodology and logsitics issues

as long as extension is an "oddity" with a handful of activities ...no problem, when you have 30% of the activiities that are extended , it is another story!

 [14:47:54] Tafadzwa: thanks for the information, each day we learn as we go

 [14:48:29] Zarel: Taffy and members of this media commision are being part of other comissions?

 [14:49:29] Tafadzwa: @ Zarel- yes we are ......mine is mainly in logistics and sometimes in the content and methodology

[14:50:20] Zarel: @Ana, maybe they won't come in the time we have... don't know, but they can read the chat, is an option... :S - Thanks Taffy, and others?

[14:51:20] Ana : yes, that's an option too!

[14:51:56] Tafadzwa: Thanks comrades!I will be an observer to the chats and will only contribute where I see it fit... Thanks guys

[14:52:25] Zarel: @Taffy, so you're too in logistics commision and in methodology

[14:52:33] Tafadzwa: Yes i am

[14:53:04] Pierre: so taffy you have several hats .. and this is very good to promote extension in various contexts /facet

[14:53:33] Zarel: cause, i think, promote extension of an event is also a methodology question

[14:53:48] Tafadzwa: hahhaha..Thanks hey..... but I really need to go through the past chats and the website links so that I contribute effectively next time in the process

Reading the links  of earlier meetings

[14:55:03] Pierre: well @ Taffy this is encouraging for what we try to do here

here is a document that we commented with sara in the last chat



last is a link to the meetings we had

[14:55:51] Tafadzwa: Thanks Pierre for the links, I will go through them and get back to you later. I have to leave the chat room.... all the best and let's be in touch

[14:58:13] Pierre: ok Taffy  good to have you onboard !

[14:58:24] Ana : ok, nice to chat with you Taffy!

 About option 3

[14:55:44] Ana : It's curious, as I was reading and thinking about the 3 options, I thought that the option 3 could be the best choice.

[14:56:35] Zarel: @Ana, and this 3 options are...?

[14:57:00] Ana : @Zarel here: http://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom/extensionbyoc-locate-team

[14:57:27] Ana : Option3 :  the core extension  team  can be a  stand alone "extension commission"- this give a very stimulating visibility to extension and clearly invites the team to have cooperative relationships with all other commissions and the secretariat  about extension

This leads to a concrete question : which is the commission in charge of website and of logistics of the venue ? or are those issues under direct responsibility of the secretariat ? ( in such case  3 could be a better option )

 [14:58:29] Zarel: (wave)

[15:00:01] Zarel: i think it can be efficient, but i think it have the risk of "been alone" and with a poor range of decision inside OC... but i think it depends of various factors

[15:01:07] Pierre: (hi kiss .. we are  expecting your inputs )

[15:01:28] Ana : I guess that this extension commission would have to be formed as part o the OC but stand alone.

[15:02:06] Zarel: @ana i agree, better than "alone" with specific tasks...

[15:02:54] Ana : @Zarel: yes absolutly

Kiss is back – opinion to locate extension team in methodology commission

[15:01:29] Kiss: my computer was frozen for a while, can you get this?

[15:01:54] Ana : hello kiss!

[15:02:00] Kiss: ok

[15:02:02] Pierre: we have to face all kind of obstacles ... :)

 [15:03:01] Pierre: to resume  taffy was spontaneously of the opinion that media commission was the better location ,  but she says she is going to review the matter, what about you?

[15:03:14] Kiss: there is a great deal of challenges in using technology in my part of the wrld, please have patience with me

 [15:03:30] Zarel: @kiss, sure!

[15:04:25] Kiss: my contribution based on the conversation I have seen is that if we are to consider the location of the extended system in the organising committees, the best place for it would be in methodology commissions

i think more than most elements of the organising process, the extended is an event as well

Extended  - event – extended event …;
[15:06:11] Zarel: @kiss.... i think..."the extended is an event as well" we can reformulate like: The extended is the Event as well" just an other modality -inclusive- of take part of it

[15:06:23] Kiss: I think that we are existing on two platforms, both the cyber and the physical and in effect, we cannot continue to see the internet extended process as a mere tool but as a platform of engagement where we meet, discuss and strategise also

[15:07:12] Pierre: comment : the whole event is extended,  the extended event includes centric activities (usual business) + enlarged centric activities + disntance encouters + local activities  during the overal extended event,  in my understanding there is not "the extended" and the rest

 [15:07:42] Zarel: @pierre, i agree : we just inform that in the event there is the options / modality of participate from distance

[15:08:38] Kiss: but the fact that it is an event must be more clarified because for most organising committees, it would be viewed as just using a tool to communicate across a distance between people across events

[15:09:16] Pierre: @kiss we are at a point where we adjust our vocabularies

[15:09:25] Kiss: lol

[15:09:36] Ana : as far as ideological and epistemological view is involved, yes, it is extended.

[15:09:40] Pierre: http://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom/extended-vocabulary

there is the classical view of event which comprises a set of “centric” activities in a same venue

the “extended event” is comprising also distance encounters,  and local activities outside the main venue, so practically it is the same methodology and charter of principes etc. but need to have words to name things :local participants  centric participants etc ..centric activity  enlarged activity

including local participants in the event – extension in simple words

etc. and the organizing committee has to make everyone  feeling included and at ease  in the extended forum space which is the venue + the rooms where local activiies take place outside the venu  + the website  space  mixing the physical and cyber spaces

[15:14:51] Kiss: interesting isnt it?

[15:15:47] Pierre: [14:08] Kisss said  but the fact that its an event must be more clarified because for most organising committees, it would be viewd as just using a tool to communicate accrross a distance between people accrross events


well  I agree, extension can be formulated in very simple words : making sure that local activity participants  500knw from lusaka feel part of SASF  with full rights, and are considered full participants by the OC , maybe with special qualifications and prvision but considered participants

[15:16:56] Kiss: my point exactly Pierre

[15:17:47] Pierre: i guess this inclusion is testified by internet acts  - like registering my local activity the same way i register a centric one albeit with some different fields , like being taken into acccount equally in the speeches of oc memeber when makin gtheir moblization work, like being counted in the event size

[15:27:36] Pierre: (to give a concrete view  here is a website friendly to extension - you can feell extension is part of the whole picture http://wef-palestine.org/soa-list   extended activities  and centric activities are treated the same  )

 [15:18:13] Zarel: and in the general invitation of the SASF...the option: take part wherever you are! (i think !)

Digesting extension in various commissions

 [15:18:57] Kiss: i think thats the best way to do it yes. in addition to legitimizing the organising of the event within each committee

[15:19:15] Pierre: addition to legitimizing the organising of the event within each committee ?pls explain

 [15:20:39] Kiss: the extended committee or its organisng system within each methodology committee must be a permanent feature of all social forum committees if it will be recognised wholely

 [15:22:15] Pierre: well this is an adventure /challenge for each event process

[15:22:26] Pierre: to give a concrete example in Dakar,we started sensitizing OC members in may 2010 in mexico with zarel, then in july 2010 there was a meeting where the dakar extended was politiclly announced, then in november we pushed to concretize a dakar extended subcomisison in communicaicon commission

 [15:24:00] Pierre: but then we realize in the end that connexion with program  was inexistent  partly because people in communication commission had not the global view  and did not develop the necessary connexion with other commissions

How is the decision of locating “extension team” made ?

[15:25:47] Zarel: @Kiss, Sara and Taffy (an all too)  i have a question, -don't know if it has an answer- in SASF the place of the people in charge of Extending the event (inside comissions or with a new comission) is a decision, that who can take it? If the people in charge of that said "we make a new comission inside OC" or a sub comission inside Methodology com. , i think it need some "support"? / "approbation"? of the others members of OC or comissions..... right? or how it could be???

 [15:27:55] Zarel: i side that, in concordance what we talk with Ana up side, the "extend commission" (if we decide to call ot that way) can't work alone... (we have the example of Dakar wherer if it's clear the team didn't work alone, at the end we didn't have the connection with the whole program)

[15:28:14] Zarel: say*....is any body here ...?

[15:29:31] Pierre: :)

[15:29:48] Ana : I'm here :)

[15:29:52] Zarel: (:

Exchange with Aaman on team location

[15:29:57] Pierre: kiss may be frozen again am afraid but Aaman may be back

[15:30:55] Aaman: Yes i am back..sorry i had to finish the scheduled meeting

[15:31:03] Zarel: i think the same question can apply ofr South Asia SF...

[15:31:12] Pierre: well welcome back Aaman as a matter of fact the issue originated with the input by Aaman about SASF update, so Aaman your further comments on the location of extended team are expected :)http://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom/extensionbyoc-locate-team

[15:32:28] Zarel: .... and if there is a "xtended team ".... ;)

[15:32:31] Pierre: option 1 2 3 ? it is an exchange of views , an open discussion

 [15:36:24] Aaman: so far no expanded team from sasf is formed

 [15:37:17] Zarel: @Amaan, that could be a good thing...begin a Extented team considering the discussion and placing it reflexively (?)and in your particular context!

[15:37:42] Pierre: Aaman  do you find the idea of comparing the thre option a relevant discussion - that may bring about useful elements?

 [15:39:01] Aaman: I think the options are ok

[15:39:47] Ana : the option 3 as an autonomous team formed from the OC could furnish great tools and experience for of similary teams in other SF of course the options have to be in agreement with the context

[15:40:36] Pierre: here we are in an open discusison , then the challenge is to compare them and advocate for one in your specific context, based on actual people and visions in presence  etc..

the goal behind this question  is " how to make OC "own" extension f SASF  as a methodlogical process and not a technical modality ?

[15:43:21] Ana : @Pierre, I agree on the terms and the need for the how

Preparing a contribution on SASF extension for may meeting

[15:43:42] Aaman: my suggestion would be...we have to wait for the signal from the sasf oc for this...we can propose a format or option to them for further planning and decision

[15:44:22] Ana : @Aaman: that would be a start ;)

[15:44:28] Pierre: ..  may be you could start to draft a few lines on this proposal

[15:45:04] Zarel: but i think, we can wait for something if OC unknow what is extension about

[15:45:06] Ana : yes, a draft explaining the all idea could be good

[15:45:13] Zarel: sorry, we CAN'T

[15:45:26] Aaman: It will be great if you could contribute the first draft

[15:45:34] Zarel: i meant

[15:46:10] Pierre: well Aaman i will create a page where is will put  a draft sent las june to hilal afte rthe big meeting you had in dkhaka remember ? last year.
Hilal said he would convey this document to some people, i would assume you had it .. but then maybe you would give a different look to it

[15:47:15] Aaman: Yes i can...then what kind of text you want to draft

[15:48:01] Pierre: some consideration to the OC to propose them an option for organising extension of sasf as a key component of organizing

[15:48:58] Aaman: Ok ...i can convey that

[15:50:13] Pierre: so can we agree that i publish and comment the last year docupment and then you can comment it , and drop a few lines about how to organize concretely ; then we elaborate a bit more , and you convey it ? in may meeting

[15:50:57] Aaman: Sure

[15:51:07] Pierre: ok!

More questions on extension by oc  and other issues

[15:52:38] Pierre: well  regarding  "extension seen by oc "


the list of question can be completed, and whoever feels like making a contribuiton to answer them .. welcome

 [15:53:18] Zarel: @Pierre, or make more questions... too, right??

[15:54:16] Pierre: @zarel : the list of questions may be completed  yes!

Point 2 - Ongoing work on concept letters

[15:53:57] Ana : Well...I have to go. I guess I'll have another look at the letter with Zarel's and Pierre's modifications.

[15:56:16] Ana : (wave) Talk to you soon!


Point 3 - Facebook  for  sfex outreach

[15:53:57] Ana : As far as a facebook group is concerned, I agree with Zarel's proposal. It might be a good instrument to spread «the word» and connect with others [15:54:40] Pierre: about facebook , we have a discussion on the table  : monolingustic or plurilinguistic space ?

[15:55:17] Pierre: and also ? what is the relation between what we do in this facebook space and the openfsm space ?

[15:57:51] Pierre: talking of outreach group is it like a buffer space where the most motivate "fans" are invited to step in openfsm

 [15:55:20] Zarel: but... i think we can continue later with these points!

Comparing facebook and openfsm for our group usage

[15:55:20] Aaman: Did you guys plan for a facebook group for further discussion? i think its a better forum

 [15:56:14] Pierre: well ... i have a zero experience in facebook groups  ,  i use making list and wiki

 [15:56:47] Pierre: but if we are to use a facebook group for sfex i should be different than the outreach facebook group

[15:56:56] Zarel: first idea is a divulgation group, but we can discusse it

[15:57:01] Pierre: zarel it looks Aaman is an experienced facebooker as you are !

[15:57:10] Zarel: i'm not.... :P

[15:57:44] Pierre: it would be good to list the functionalities and how they can be used inside the group and related to other places such as openfsm lists pages and skype

 [15:58:31] Zarel: @Ana, (wave)

[15:58:51] Pierre: am going away too ...

[15:59:36] Zarel: ok.... so

[15:59:59] Pierre: your are welcome to continue  ..next chat in two weeks late hour 17 GMT

[16:00:24] Aaman: Pierre i think facebook itself is enough for such discussion and documents uploading...

 [16:00:48] Aaman: we can use skype only for voice or video call

[16:01:10] Pierre: we have also a mailing list ...

[16:01:13] Aaman: The open fsm site is not user friendly at all

[16:01:13] Zarel: but facebook is a commercial site... and we have opens fsm too ( a fsm tool)  but, i think we have to discusse it next chat or via mail, before left...

[16:02:47] Aaman: If we want to reach maximum coverage facebook is the best option ..

[16:04:48] Pierre: ok Aaman i take your point , I would welcome a session where you can make critiques  about openfsm and i try to adress them.... to give a better chance to this very open tool  - am also interested to compared functionalities with facebook

Points to continue from this meeting

 [16:02:55] Zarel: what are the points to continue from this meeting also??

[16:03:00] Zarel: we have points to continue:

-the place of Extended team/group/comission in both SAFS

-the possibilities of facebook group (s)

- Next chat April 26th 17:00 GMT

 [16:05:28] Aaman: Place of extended team means? Will u clarify zarel....

[16:07:18] Zarel: the discussion that is open about where is the best place for locate the works of a "Extended group" inside the oc and comission of an event http://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom/extensionbyoc-locate-team

Meeting Transcription and bye

[16:08:49] Pierre: will be a transcription in openfsm page here :


[16:07:49] Pierre: going now .... see you on line  thanks everybody  .

 [16:09:25] Pierre: (*)(wave)

[16:09:47] Zarel: ok (wave)

[16:11:27] Aaman: Bye guys