• sfex facilit meeting 5

last modified April 27, 2011 by facilitfsm

return to sfex meetings page


Start. 1

News from Tunisia : learning curve and events in 2012/13. 2

Paris meeting. 3

Agenda. 3

News from sao Paulo. 3

News from Palestine. 4

News from Zambia : 4

14th may ROC meeting in Lusaka. 5

Proposal : Enlarge14th may meeting. 5

News from Bangladesh. 6

About Facebook – starting a group!. 6

Use of this Facebook group : make people aware of what is the extended forum concept. 6

Language issues : one common group, or one group per language ?. 7

Outcomes of the Facebook group : motivate to organize collective activities in WSF with remote intercommunication   8

Options After facebook stage – “sfex directory” effort. 9

Zarel point. 9

Sfex  facilitation scope is inside WSF process. 9

Is OpenFSM A virtual forum? is “Sfex initiative”  a forum?. 10

Name of Facebook goup? Not so easy !. 12

Next meeting. 13



 [19:03:42] Pierre: hello ! Aaman, romdhane,  vitalij

[19:05:22] Vitalij: Hi! I'm online.

[19:05:33] Romdhane: hi

[19:06:00] Pierre: welcome romdhane from tunisia

[19:06:09] Pierre: hi Zarel

[19:06:29] Vitalij: Hi, Zarel!

[19:06:41] Zarel: Hi (:

[19:13:05] Pierre: hi Sara !

[19:13:51] Sara: hello all!

[19:21:45] Zarel: so.... we can start

[19:21:55] Luciano: Hi to all, following the conversation (:

[19:21:59] Zarel: hi Luciano

[19:52:23] Pierre: hi Aaman

[19:52:34] Aaman: Pierre halo

[21:14:26] Jen: Hello. Just to send greetings from Oaxaca, México.

[21:14:28] Pierre: jenny !!

 [21:14:36] Jen: sun+

[21:14:37] Zarel: Jen!

[21:14:56] Luciano: Hello!

[21:17:59] Pierre: jenny gracias por tu visita  esperamos noticias de oaxaca extendida


News from Tunisia : learning curve and events in 2012/13

[19:10:17] Zarel: so, Rodhane, how do you value the extension of the sftunis last days?

 [19:12:45] Romdhane: good experience despite some failure

 [19:15:16] Pierre: there is now a Maghreb social forum scheduled in tunisia in march 2012. .. this comes into our Sfex agenda, http://openFSM.net/projects/Sfexintercom/Sfex-event-list

[19:18:24] Sara: I see, that is good development.

[19:19:08] Pierre: also Romdhane please confirm, i understand that there will be discussion to propose world social forum in Tunisia /or Egypt in 2013 we might hear about this in Paris international council meeting 26th o f May

[19:22:46] Romdhane: yes Tunisians say they are committed to a global social Forum in Tunis 2013

[19:23:53] Luciano: I tried to watch the meeting on Tunisia, it was lagging in here and in french/arabic... (i don't know any of those :/)

 [19:25:21] Pierre: yes luciano. ... we are all aware. .it is part of the "learning curve" for Tunisian organizers. .. Romdhane can comment

[19:28:56] Romdhane: in Tunis there is a problem in terms of programming and hardware and also time we lost a lot of time

Paris meeting

 [19:19:56] Pierre: Sara will you be coming?

[19:20:38] Sara: Not coming to Paric IC meeting. No sponsorship.

 [19:21:40] Pierre: OK - i understand that friends from Bangladesh will be coming to Paris, and they propose to host the next international council meeting in Dacca probably on occasion of SASF

 [19:23:50] Pierre: i understand that there are also on the table proposal from Quebec and compostela. ...discussion will go up to next IC meeting


[19:24:16] Sara: Let's start today's agenda - I'll not stay after an hour.

 [19:25:47] Pierre: ok so for agenda what are the issues we want to cover today ?let us adapt the agenda to the concerns of people present : news from sao paulo, news from Zambia, ?

[19:52:18] Pierre: (during the chat you are welcome to browse http://openFSM.net/projects/Sfexintercom/Sfexagendaelements and make comments and questions )

News from sao Paulo

[19:28:10] Luciano: In here I tried to contact the organizers of the FSSP, but not much success, we got a huge holiday last week.. that's a motive, and they are not yet decided to continue or not

I've announced on Facebook that this meeting were occurring and some FSSP members contacted me! \o -The problem in here is that they are too "closed", my challenge is to input the "expanded" in there

[19:33:28] Pierre: we are talking of sao paulo social forum http://forumsocialsp.org.br/

[19:33:56] Pierre: luciano did you find track of the Columbian Medellin connection? well... keep trying !

 [19:36:23] Luciano: no Pierre, now I think things are going to work, just got the e-mail of persons of the Instituto Paulo Freire who are into intercommunication

[19:37:37] Pierre: good news - i guess it is useful to find a little group of people organizations that share this extended approach

[19:57:50] Luciano: (I've got a new "ally" for expanded process in São Paulo http://openFSM.net/people/diegoitu/profile )

[20:13:56] Luciano: (got an another good new, persons in Rio +20 are curious about "expanding")

 [20:14:40] Pierre: luciano - that is good news indeed. .. it also raises a methodological point. .since rio + 20 is not a social forum event formally, we will have to think how Sfex group will perform facioitation and with who ? - i hope paris meeting will give some elements about this

[20:16:25] Luciano: that's a question that I'd like to make, even not being Social Forum related, could we help in?

[20:17:41] Pierre: @luciano -we can put this issue for discussion - :) -



 News from Palestine
[19:38:00] Pierre: ( i just called Ibrahim from Ramallah - he had an accident just during the days of the meeting in Tunisia - and sending apologies for not connecting to romdhane and greetings to everyone )(he has no connection in his village) http://openFSM.net/projects/wef-palestine-interlink-extend/memory-status

News from Zambia :

 [19:42:24] Sara: Zambia will hold SASFROC meeting by skype on 14th May to plan Southern Africa Social Forum to be held in October 2011. Not possible to raise funds for a physical meeting. The themes/topics/issues are similar to those of SASF-Dhaka. The ROC (regional organizing committee) meeting works through commissions, though in the past only a handful really participate: commissions are: resource mobilization, content & methodology, media & publicity, mobilization & outreach; logistics.

[19:43:02] Pierre: so to continue on our last chat discussion :where is extension located :)

[19:43:28] Zarel: the past meeting we were talking about where is the best site to place a extended commission and there are two processes for essay, you have thought about that Sara?

[19:44:58] Sara: extension is located in "media & publicity" and "content & methodology" commissions, but all are involved in executing 'extension'

that's what happened in February!

[19:46:59] Pierre:. . is the organizing committee going to draft an invitation to participate locally into SASF in complement to coming to the center event ? explaining  that SASF will be extended ( that is a mobilization issue too )

[19:48:46] Sara: no details at hand - commissions will meet tomorrow - 27th April - at a general meeting.

[19:48:54] Pierre: the sooner this is done,  the earlier people can start making real size test (as the one we intended between Dakar and Lusaka on January 23rd )and these" test" are in fact local mobilization or distance participation to a preparation meeting in Lusaka ( as was done in Tunisia last week) this is where extension and preparation /mobilization meet

[19:53:48] Sara: planning is at two levels - local committee for Zambia as each SASF country does and ROC is at subregional level in collaboration with Lusaka local committee as the host. Invitations are sent by both local host committee (to give general scope) and in-country local committees.

 [19:54:45] Pierre: which means that extension promotion needs to be done in several countries. ..what is ROC? (tafadzwa said last time she was interested to participate from Zimbabwe )

[19:57:53 Sara: yes, ROC is a committee with representatives from each participating country (for now we have Zambia, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Swaziland, South Africa, Mozambique, Lesotho, DRC - I think!)

[19:59:18] Pierre: Sara do you think you can spot some people in the respective countries that are responsive to the idea of local + extended participation in SASF

14th may ROC meeting in Lusaka
[20:01:50 Sara: this question will be answered after 14thMay meeting - ROC members will give me the names - this because I'll have to share more info - not many people understand what 'extension' means.

[20:02:36] Pierre: yes. ... if you need material we can try to help you selecting from what is already existing : here is the general chronological index where to look for some documents http://openFSM.net/projects/Sfexintercom/Sfex-general-page-index it is flowing with time and the various events of 2010

(these people might ideally constitute an "extension group" both active on the ground in their country - local mobilization  and in the two commissions you mentioned - communication and methodology )

 [20:05:58] Sara: I think we can have a good network of 'extension' since the RPOC operates through national and local groupings. I mean ROC

Proposal : Enlarge14th may meeting
[20:06:43] Pierre: nice to hear yes... that is promising, .... then the art and craft is to create some learning occasion : for instance 14th may meeting could be enlarged to those that cannot come to Lusaka.
This could be organized by Kiss and communicated early enough as we tried to do in tunis :)

It could be a test bench to show ROC one aspect of extension as a contribution to the preparation mobilization process

[20:12:03] Sara: yes, we are going to discuss at morrow's meeting how this would be done - some ROC members have already agreed to join the meeting through skype - we will project the dialogue on a wall. more details after tomorrow.

[20:14:09] Pierre: would be great Sara to keep us informed on the Sfex list. ....

 here is the invitation made for Tunisia : http://openFSM.net/projects/maghreb-mashrek/csfstunis-elargi-invitation-en

[20:16:58 Sara: i shared the Tunis invitation on sasfroc and zamsof lists but not sure who participated - the snag is that it was Easter public holiday in southern Africa!

[20:18:15] Pierre: @Sara it was just to give an idea of invitation to an enlarged meeting ( ustream out - skype in )

 [20:19:29] Sara: okay! SASFROC will have to do that for 14thMay - perhaps you can work with Kiss.

 [20:20:06] Pierre: @Sara - we will be ready to transfer the experience we have to date, Romdhane Zarel myself

[20:21:30] Sara: Thanks for the offer - I'll pass on the message to the colleagues tomorrow.

News from Bangladesh

[19:52:13] Aaman: Hi everyone

 [19:52:50] Pierre: welcome to Bangladesh. ... i understand some of you will be coming to paris soon

[19:53:04] Aaman: i didnt track your conversation...what is the update

[19:53:25] Pierre: (pls read upstream) everyone is giving news about their own process

[19:53:39] Aaman: I guess...hilal and Ratan will visit ic meeting in paris

[19:54:17] Aaman: Ok

 [19:57:26] Pierre: Aaman your are next ! :)

About Facebook – starting a group!

[20:17:23] Zarel: don't know if all the people will rest here, so, i have a question

[20:19:12] Zarel: we have talk about Facebook, so, we agree to begin a group in Facebook?

 [20:19:51] Luciano: for me, that's okay Zarel! (:

 [20:20:35] Sara: Facebook is okay - many in southern Africa are on it!

[20:21:01] Zarel: think all us can be signed as administrators and invite (or put in) people we meet that can be interested in know about Sfex

 [20:21:37] Zarel: (Sara can you accept my demand of skype contact?)

[20:21:53] Sara: sure Zarel!

[20:21:44] Luciano: great! Most people from FSSP are on Facebook

Use of this Facebook group : make people aware of what is the extended forum concept
[20:21:49] Pierre: i have a question about Facebook group : how do we position it related to the rest of Sfex internet space - it is just a "introductory" space

 [20:22:51] Pierre: i would like to see more clearly what is done in the gorup and what is done elsewere in wki or mailing list

[20:23:23] Luciano: Well it is a "share" space.. as a social media we could use it as a strategy of making people aware of new events and documents on OpenFSM

[20:24:14] Zarel: @luciano agree

[20:24:57] Zarel: @pierre maybe we should have a space in open related to the "movents" "docs" etc we put in Facebook?

 Language issues : one common group, or one group per language ?

[20:22:05] Pierre: and also we come back to the issue of language!

 [20:23:30] Zarel: i think by the moment the space (Facebook)can be mostly in English but we all can collaborate in it in the languages we think apropriate...

 [20:25:00] Sara: perhaps multi-lingua colleagues should re-write in other languages! or have offers to translate each contribution simultaneously!

[20:25:35] Luciano: I could translate documents that are in english to portuguese.

 [20:26:43] Luciano: @Sara agree!

[20:27:04] Pierre: i really think that mono-linguistic space would be a better midterm option

[20:27:27] Zarel: @ pierre... why?

[20:27:48] Pierre: (tel)

[20:29:46] Zarel: well... anyway, we can start like this and see how it works, i think :P

[20:30:38] Pierre: starting a pluri-linguistic group can look fun, but it will be difficult to communicate fluidly - on the other hand, if there are several mono-linguistic group,  anyone having some command of the language can join

So, if i am a native Brazilian speaking a little English, i can go in the Portuguese group AND in the english group, so this is not hindering my contacts, and it is allowing to deepen contacts between people that have the same language

[20:32:47] Zarel: but you won't have any contact (even won't know about their existence) of people in the other spaces

[20:32:52] Pierre: why not? if all space are interconnected and mentioned in one another, as we do in Sfex flower

[20:32:54] Luciano: I don't know if several spaces is a good idea for Facebook, I think we could do one space at this moment and, as a collective demand, do others

[20:33:55] Zarel: @ luciano, agree - Vitalij? you have some to say? about Facebook and / or languages spaces?

[20:35:07] Sara: I leave this discussion to you pipo coz I'm not yet on Facebook - so I cannot contribute at this stage!

[20:36:28] Zarel: but i think @Sara that language and spaces is a theme we have to discuss

[20:37:28] Sara: :| 20:42:12)] Sara: mm+ goodnite!

 [20:35:58] Pierre: i have hard time resisting the Facebook tsunami. ..... let us start a first group of course. ....

Outcomes of the Facebook group : motivate to organize collective activities in WSF with remote intercommunication

[20:35:58] Pierre: also i have questions about the "outcomes" of the group ( whatever language is spoken )

 [20:36:32] Luciano: As long we publish things and identify other participants that are active we can grow without demand too much of ourselves... what may bring us to a strategy

 [20:38:10] Pierre: being in the same group.  very well. .... and then what ? - posting message on the wall- chatting - and then how do people get into a more COLLECTIVE process when deciding to intercommunicate with others? : that is why  specific “chatrooms” and “mailing lists” were created for each local initiative that is open to intercommunication

[20:38:15] Zarel: what do you mean "outcomes" Pierre?

[20:39:26] Pierre: i mean that being friends in a Facebook group does not produce much outcome. ... we need to offer spaces where people can show their collective intentions to intercommunicate wiht a specific other group and places to do so

[20:39:44] Pierre: A Facebook group can be good for a first contact of course, a good place to hear and learn about extended forum

[20:40:00] Luciano: well.. I think that's what OpenFSM is about

[20:40:06] Pierre: yes. that is precisely my question: how do we articulate the two tools ?

[20:40:29] Luciano: we should not have the intention to substitute one too for another, but to use both properly : Facebook it's a communication/ media tool... a way to get peoples attention to something : our "something" is the OpenFSM events and documents and to get people in contact in a more "informal" way, and then, when settle to do a event... publish on Open, and announce on Facebook/e-mail

[20:42:35] Zarel: firstly it serves to introduce people to the Sfex

 [20:43:21] Luciano: @Zarel indeed

[20:43:24] Zarel: the people we meet and the people the people we meet meet and maybe other people that simpatize with WSF spaces in Facebook

[20:43:54] Luciano: @Zarel that made a brake on my brain... lol

 [20:44:22] Zarel: hehehehe

Options After facebook stage – “sfex directory” effort

[20:44:24] Pierre: @luciano Zarel - i agree to this approach. . after the first Facebook " thrill" -we need to have options to offer to people so they can self organize

 i have suggested an apparently "tedious and painstaking way " of "discussing 8 questions inside my groups about intercommunication"

[20:44:38] Pierre: http://openFSM.net/projects/Sfexintercom/Sfexdirectory i know this looks a very boring way and at the same time it is a real collective way to go …..am not saying it is the only possible one. ...

[20:46:12] Zarel: think it doesn't make good mix with my headache

[20:46:30] Pierre: but the distance between  "Sfex is nice " and " we are organizing a first extended activity" is a big distance, we know this,

[20:47:05] Luciano: it is indeed Pierre

[20:47:21] Pierre: so we could propose stages/steps

[20:47:22] Luciano: so, how many of us are still here?

[20:47:56] Pierre: i guess Aaman left- prodip is online, vitalij is back. ..

[20:49:21] Luciano: Ok, so... what is our conclusion for today?

[20:49:50] Luciano: We will make a group on Facebook (as an experience?)

[20:49:53] Zarel: i can create the space (:

[20:49:58] Luciano: cool

Zarel point

[20:51:08] Zarel: or to articulate with other people in sf who make extended activities

 [20:52:00] Pierre: Zarel you mentioned a third option between cooperating with organizing committees and stimulating local- local intercommunication

[20:52:03] Pierre: what is it?

[20:52:36] Zarel: hmmm... i don't know... i don't remember

[20:52:57] Pierre: @Zarel your yesterday message on the Sfex mailing list

 Sfex  facilitation scope is inside WSF process  

[20:50:27] Luciano: I still need to know about helping other events that are not related to the SF

[20:50:57] Pierre: well this needs some talking

 [20:51:26] Luciano: there are this possibility of Rio +20 and an another of the national network of young people for environment in Brazil

 [20:53:29] Pierre: @luciano- Sfex is built on the idea that intercommunication is at the heart of social forum process and is dedicating its scarce human resource to spreading the idea of extended event and intercommunication directory inside WSF". So our target as Sfex are organizations involved in WSF process. Of course these organizations have each their own agenda and can recycle usage of intercom techniques in it

[20:54:43] Luciano: I see, but if they are interested on get in touch with people from Sf spaces, we may assemble that?

[20:56:04] Pierre: as Sfex, it is coherent to maintain the focus on WSF related organizations and events - this is a simple criteria : "accept the charter of principles".  Now of course any organization, considering itself as a WSF process participant, may want to intercommunicate with another one that is not or not yet in this position

[20:57:59] Luciano: well, Rejuma ( the national network of young people....) always participate of the WSF when it happens on Brazil, but has never expanded... this could be a test

 [20:59:24] Pierre: That is perfectly fine, as long as they can put "yes" on their agreement with the charter

So thinking out loud : if we are in a social forum event, the rules are given by the organizing committee, if we are in local to local intercommunication, the " directory announcement " asks that organization state their agreement with the charter http://openFSM.net/projects/WSF-extended/Sfexenfich

[21:00:22] Pierre: so Rio+20 might be equivalent to the second case: When the event is not a social forum, the intercommunication and activities we support are  explicitly "located" by their organizers inside WSF process

Is OpenFSM A virtual forum? is “Sfex initiative”  a forum?

[20:58:32] Zarel: i think….Sfex can be a……can promote? FSM …i mean... organizations can know about FSM by Sfex, Sfex can introduce org that aren't (yet ;)) part of FSM

[21:00:15] Pierre: sure Zarel ! Sfex is potentially a powerful expansion tool for WSF

[21:00:42] Zarel: and too, i think Sfex can be the "open FSM", in contrast with other forms of FSM

 [21:01:44] Pierre: well i think it is preposterous and erroneous to call "Sfex initiative"  "a forum". that is why i suggest to say we are "Sfex initiative": we collaborate with event organizers, and we support groups that want to intercommunicate inside the WSF process, but we are NOT organizing a forum

[21:03:06] Pierre: see ?

[21:03:07] Zarel: ok...is the the open methodology of FSM, and is part of FSM, wherever it exist or not

[21:03:54] Luciano: well, but it isnt the OpenFSM a "virtual forum"?: the organizations are there, they talk with each other, promote events, make collective agendas...

[21:04:26] Pierre: even though we might be eventually led to propose a website to host the Sfex directory - it would not be a “forum event website” - it would be a “service site” to those willing to intercommunicate inside WSF process

[21:05:07] Pierre: @luciano - openFSM is a tool that is consistent with WSF approach to a large extent but the tool is not a process. A diversity of initiative can use the tool to prepare things: for instance look here: http://openFSM.net/projects/fs-al/fsal-en

this is an initiative coming from a dakar assembly, with organizations involved etc..so openFSM can provide an internet space to a diversity of such initiative and stimulate linkage and proximity between them……but in itself it is not a forum

[21:08:26] Luciano: I made that position because I see the Forum as a space. A space were people meet. The “social” on it is made by a sign put on it ( the letter of principles)

[21:10:32] Pierre: yes luciano - considering that this space is a “voluntary construction of those who organize event or participate in the process, a construction that needs to be created, maintained, and improved…..it is a “facilitated space” and, ideally, its “facilitation” can be decentralized:) and shared by all participants

That is why discussion on facilitation and how to implement it is a strategic one in WSF process

[21:12:45] Luciano: well, the openFSM it is a "extension" of the Forum... a way to not let what happened on the venues only stay with those who were there

[21:13:18] Pierre: i would word it this way : “the openFSM is a tool usable by those who intend to facilitate extension” 

[21:14:31] Zarel: or for those who grow a garden?

 [21:15:49] Pierre: @Zarel : well inasmuch as they grow the garden as an action directed toward another possible world and agree on the charter of principles - intentionality and self location inside WSF process, whatever the concrete action

which raises the question of regulation of the process - in an event, the organizing committee may refuse some activities - in the local to local process it can be based on peer assessment

[21:19:49] Luciano: I will think about what you've said Pierre when Rio +20 talk with me about expanded.

Right now I'm sending an e-mail for the person from IPFreire asking if her can help in the expanding process of FSSP

[21:20:31] Pierre: luciano - who is riio+20 :)?

[21:20:51] Luciano: haha, I mean the person that is envolved who are curious about it

[21:20:57] Pierre: :)

Name of Facebook goup? Not so easy !

 [21:21:36] Pierre: Zarel luciano how will this Facebook group be named ?

[21:22:01] Luciano: “Social Forum Expanded “?

[21:22:12] Pierre: “Sfex inintiative  welcome and info” ? i would not give the impression that being in that Facebook group means you are practising intercommunication inside WSF - which is the real sf extended

[21:25:57] Luciano: hmm, I see your point

[21:26:33] Zarel: i don't

[21:26:35] Pierre: this is a space where people can find other people explaining and shareing experience and inviting to go a step further into practicing collective intercommunication inside WSF process………this is not an extended social forum space

Extended social forum i can be

1/ an extended event facilitated by an organizing committee supported by Sfex facilit intiaive or

2/ a general concept of permanent distance intercommunication between groups participating in WSF process - self regulated with support of Sfex initiative group and possibly other ( we have no exclusivity)

[21:30:01] Pierre: the logo we have used points to the general concept, some other logo like the mexican one points to one extended event

[21:30:49] Zarel: the group is an initiative that promote extension of all possibilites of sf

[21:32:55] Luciano: can we stay with "Sfex: welcome and info" ?

[21:33:57] Zarel: i don't like it,welcome and info? who can find that ??who can relate it with FSM?

[21:34:41] Luciano: so. ... what is the other option?

[21:35:04] Zarel: i have a list, but i don't find it, and i can even think in this moment, sorry

[21:35:51] Pierre: we have used this already http://openFSM.net/projects/WSF-extended/project-home

[21:37:22] Zarel: yes, but do you think people are / were closer to it?

[21:37:39] Luciano: well since you are not in your best conditions Zarel, what if we call it a day, you get rest and tell us what u think latter on the list, since you are the responsible for creating the space?

[21:38:01] Zarel: Pierre, we think possible names, you have them? merci Luciano! de acuerdo

[21:38:46] Pierre: not necessarily Zarel

i am just willing to escape the “Facebook effect” of believing i am doing something when am not

we can think a bit more - differentiating the internet core name and the facial name

[21:43:11] Pierre: "about Sfex" ? just brainstorming :)

 [21:39:46] Luciano: it is settled then. We are going to think more about it and decide on the list.

[21:40:14] Pierre: we continue discussion until we arrive to some acceptable name

Next meeting

[21:17:31] Luciano: Everyone, we are more than two hours in here... I think we could get into next appointment agenda/date - when is the next meeting?

 [21:40:20] Luciano: before or after 14th may?

[21:40:41] Pierre: in two weeks. 10th of may 12 GMT

[21:41:27] Luciano: ok. we got precious info today from Sara, this was a good meeting! :)

 [21:43:11] Pierre: in 18mn, we can meet with Aluizio from social forum Potiguar, in Brazil,  luciano you’re welcome ! http://www.ciranda.net/FSM-dacar-2011/article/FSM-expandido-dakar-em-debate-no they had a meeting yesterday back from Dakar, broadcasted on tv

[21:43:48] Zarel: :S

 [21:44:50] Luciano: cool!

 [21:58:27] Zarel: NEXT MEETING 10th May 12 GMT