sfex facilit minute1 (history) - Sfex(tension) - Inter / Com

[18:34:07] Pierre: well as i wrote, the scope of this first meeting is to allow participants to introduce themselves a get acquainted somehow with other regarding their organizations . background with social forum extended, then in a second round, we can share comments about the invitation i send and the assessment of WSF2011

see the two text just above the 4 stars, which was sent earlier today

http://openfsm.net/projects/SFEXintercom/invitation-SFEX-facilit-2011

http://openfsm.net/projects/SFEXintercom/evaldaket-en

[18:36:42] Pierre: so for now let us introduce ourselves...some other people may come later on during the meeting

[18:37:46] Tony: we are not so many now :|

[18:38:17] Vitalij: Absent members can read all messages later. While at least one member of chat will be online, history will be synchronized for all members.

[18:38:51] Pierre: so Prodip, Vitalij ; Tony, Lise,...

[18:43:14] Pierre: so i understand Tony is drafting his introduction in one paragraph, others please prepare yourself in parallel …

Tony

[18:43:32] Tony: ok so, my name is tony, with lise we made the first caravan for WSF Dakar 2011 and we joined the organisation in November on Dakar, I worked since the time in the commission Dakar extended ;) I was the arm of Pierre on Dakar ;) and I am French

[18:46:52] Pierre: Tony has done a significant role in the preparation months in Dakar

http://openfsm.net/projects/Dakar-etendu/rencontres-preparatoires

Prodip

[18:45:05] Prodip : Prodip from Bangladesh. We organized an extended event at Dhaka during Dakar Social Forum 2011

[18:45:15] Pierre: http://openfsm.net/projects/bangladesh-WSF/daket-en8

[18:45:37] Prodip : thanks pierre

Vitalij

[18:46:00] Vitalij: OK, I'm Vitalij, member of administration of Russian Cultural Center in Ternopol' region (Ukraine) My first participation in forum had been in 2008 in Kiev. And there we met with Pierre. And Pierre invited me to participate in Dakar now.

[18:48:11] Pierre: vitalij has translated the Russian petal and organized one encounter with Dakar

http://openfsm.net/projects/WSF-extended-in-russian/project-home

[18:49:00] Vitalij: Encounter in Skype. Video-connection.

Torsten

[18:46:01] Torsten : Hi everybody! I am Torsten form Berlin / Germany - the German facilitator of daket.

[18:48:43] Pierre: torsten has taken care of German based activities :

http://openfsm.net/projects/erweitertes-WSF/project-home

Lise

[18:51:26] LISE : Hi, I am Lise, friend of Tony, French also. I am member of the Local Social Forum of Ivry sur Seine (with Pierre). Our caravan was from Ivry (local forum) to Dakar (world forum)

To understand what was our "project" you can go on http://openfsm.net/projects/paroles-vers-le-fsm/project-home . So we arrived at Dakar in November 2010, and I was working on "Dakar extended" in the local committee of organization in Dakar with Tony, and I also worked on the "west african caravans" : http://openfsm.net/projects/caravanes-fsm2011/project-home

Prodip point about Dakar

[18:49:04] Prodip : At our extended program during Dakar social forum, we could not get any participation of extended preparation committee. I think, it should not be!

[18:49:39] Pierre: can you comment Prodip ? am not sure to understand

[18:51:05] Prodip : As usual, the extended committee should organise the thematic people to ensure participation in extended programme. But I think, during Dakar social forum, it could not do effectively

[18:51:08] Torsten : Regarding the problems of the senegaleze organizers: here is the essay of mr. wallerstein from yale university, usa. There he mentioned the also the critical situation four days before the start of the forum. You find his text at http://fbc.binghamton.edu/commentr.htm

[18:53:06] Prodip : So, we can use our experience in the next programme. Now, we need to formulate some plan of action for the next.

[18:54:10] Pierre: so Prodip you were expecting that the facilitating team in Dakar would provide an audience and speakers on the theme you had proposed... is that so?

[18:55:28] Prodip : yes! because there would have many of organisers in the next programme who would not have direct participation in the programme. So, we need to ensure programme participation in the extended event organizers

[18:56:18] Pierre: am trying to reformulate prodip : “next programme” = next event in Bangladesh?

[18:57:14] Prodip : Not only Bangladesh, I am telling for all of the next programme.

[18:57:32] Pierre: but what is this programme :)? SASF programme? am trying to be specific...

A better plan B ?
[18:56:28] Torsten : I think daket was a great success - even so the average quality of the streamings could be better - but under the circumstances at Dakar was not bad at all. But next time we could improve the quality of the preparation of plan B (B meaning what we can do in the case of bottlenecks concerning available internet connections, rooms etc.).

South Asia SF event

[18:58:25] Vitalij: SASF - what means first 2 letters? South Africa?

[18:58:31] Pierre: south Asia

[18:58:37] Vitalij: Thanks.

[18:58:43] Pierre: India - Pakistan - Bangladesh

[18:58:44] Tony: thanks :)

[18:58:59] Pierre: 18-21 november 2011 in Dhaka

[18:59:19] Prodip : The programme committee just sat one time. Then they could not sit again. So, I have not any progress news about South Asian Social Forum. Hope, i could provide you the progress, when the programme committee will meet again

South Asia: Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Bhutan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Mal dives and Afghanistan

[19:00:37] Tony: and not south east asia?thailande, burma?

[19:01:25] Prodip : I think, the programme committee led by Hilal discussed about include east asia, but I have not any progress news.

[19:02:26] Pierre: well, the scope of this first meeting is not to discuss the dynamics of SASF... we have some time ahead for this

[19:02:36] Tony: sure ;)

November 2011 in france

[19:03:34] LISE : 18-20 November is more or less the same dates of the French week of international solidarity : so good moment for local associations in France to make forum extended

Speaking of committees, role of event organizing committees, role of SFEX facility group ….

[19:02:40] Torsten : it's the whole world if we can manage to extend it!

[19:03:11] Pierre: yes torsten... and t it is very useful to work with event organising committees, in year 2010 we approached many of the 40 events that took place

[19:03:53] Torsten : I am keen in organizing at least one seminar or workshop where people truly can participate via chat while receiving the video+audio stream!

[19:04:09] Prodip : Have any formal committee for extended event? it is just a query!

[19:04:49] Pierre: prodip - this “SFEX facilit” group we are beginning to form is the one that will stimulate our work

[19:05:04] Prodip : ok!

[19:05:07] Pierre: each “event organising committee” is more or less “friendly” to the idea of extended forum : http://openfsm.net/projects/SFEXintercom/SFEX-2010-event-list in this list, you wlill see case by case

[19:05:34] Torsten : thanks

[19:05:51] Pierre: in general, people you meet in a WSF meeting like the idea [of social forum extended, of extending their events],now when it comes to organizing it, it is another story, usually they have hard time to find the appropriate persons to stimulate this

[19:06:26] Prodip : First, I think, we need to indentify some thematic issues and one could lead this thematic group for extended programme

[19:07:19] Pierre: i guess this can be discussed later on... the of the extension of an event should be the same as the thematic scope of the event itself

e-g if SASF is “all thematic”, its extension should also be all thematic; wef palestine was on education, wef extended was on education http://openfsm.net/projects/wef-in-palestine-process/project-home

[19:08:42] Torsten : But any organizing committee must know and regard that a seminar/workshop which is extended in the way I mentioned above (chat + video + audio) needs some basics - a fixed room and energy and internet connection ;)

[19:08:54] Pierre: ooh yess, Torsten, and this again comes with practice, that is why bangladesh has already a significant practice

[19:09:03] Prodip : yes, it is my first experience with you.

[19:10:05] Pierre: sure Prodip.. we need time to chat on these points quietly and at length

[19:10:38] Prodip : I think, the persons, who will express his/her intension to lead the thematic extended group, s/he must have the experience on Web 2.0 tools like skype, video, audio streaming etc.

[19:11:58] Torsten : Yes this would be an advantage - but this person must have strong support by other members of the organizing committee as well!

[19:12:59] Vitalij: Unfortunately, I can not help you: (. I have experience with Internet tools including servers.

[19:14:05] Pierre: Vitalij you have grasped the idea of extended social forum, and translated the page in Russian, and conducted a skype meeting... that is already significant ; now comes the outreach work around you....;

WSF calendar of events, advertizing of extended events

we are speaking now of extending one specific “social forum event” : SASF Dhaka, of course there will be other events in 2011 and 2012, and for each of them we as “SFEX facilit group” would have to approach as early as possible the organizers and see their level of interest and if they have reliable people we can work with etc...

[19:14:27] Torsten : But the other side of the coin is that we also have to improve our advertising of the extended events

[19:14:29] Pierre: that is one work line : events, the other work line is continuous process outside events

[19:15:16] Pierre: adverstizing of extended events should be done by “event organizers” primarily, and we can help them and amplify, but if “event organizers” really mean business when they say they want to extend their event, they will do most of the work, naturally, when they tour the region to mobilize for the event, they say : “come, and if you cannot come, participate form where you are”

[19:16:34] Vitalij: Pierre, I'll be translating audio stream to Paris Commune anniversary :) ….and I can relay your audio streams [ of social forum extended with my server]

[19:16:38] Prodip : Actually we want to popularize the extended programe as a platform of exchange ideas and experience of different social movement against neo-liberal regime. So, we need to act constructively in the next. So, I am proposing my ideas on extended programme.

[19:17:12] Pierre: sure prodip ; we are exchanging idea.. - i understand you run a “online centre”, as for me the vision i have of an extended event is exactly the words : “extended event” meaning that “activities” can be in the event location, or outside it “local activities”, and in between places (i-e “distance encounters” and – “enlarged activities” in Dakar - in Dhaka and in connection Dhaka Dakar

[19:18:17 Torsten : The organizers will do the advertisement if we can manage to finish the technical preparations for them at least one week in advance - this was my experience with the organizers of the German events.

Vocabulary - programme, event, activities

see elements on vocabulary here

[19:19:14] Pierre: please note we are speaking of two type of organizers

“event organizers” = “all SASF” organizers vs. “activity organizers” = organiser of one activity in the event

ourselves, as “extended event co-organizers”,we outreach to “extended activity organizers” who want to participate in the “extended event”

[19:20:37] Prodip : I know, this is a preparatory phase of “extended programme”. But there have much more possibility to activate this process. We can make the extended programme as an important process of WSF.

[19:22:06] Pierre: am not sure to understand the word "programme" Prodip the way you use it - for me the" programme" is the gathering of all "activities" that take place in a specific "event "

[19:22:42] Pierre: WSF2011 programme consisted in 1000+ activities, out of which 200 where extended

[19:22:45] Prodip : I know, it will require some technical skills. We could help each other to reach the skills.

[19:23:11] Pierre: for the moment we are trying to establish a common vocabulary :)

[19:23:37] Prodip : “Programme” means “all extended events”.

[19:23:55] Pierre: ….it seems you use “event” to name what i call "activity", “event” is the forum itself

Dhaka SASF next November will be an “event”, in which hundreds of “activities” will take place

[19:25:42] Pierre: please let us try to use "activities" and reserve the use of events for the social forum themselves....otherwise we will have trouble understanding each other

[19:26:14] Prodip : I think, we can overcome the vocabulary problem through discussion.

[19:27:16] Pierre: sure..

[19:27:29] Prodip : yes, it is a great problem for us and challenges also. I think, we could overcome. Just now, please try to understand the meaning.

[19:25:04 Torsten : Regarding the “extended event co-organizers”: The feedback of the organizers of German daket-activities was that they are keen in trying to organize interactive activities as i described above. For this the organizational setting is crucial - therefore I am stressing this point.

Sorry that I have to leave by now - I have to prepare a handout for an important response to a German ministry which I have to deliver till tomorrow!

[19:30:38] Pierre: thanks torsten for coming anyway...;

Outcomes, decisions, scope?

[19:30:38] Pierre: aside from events, we, as “SFEX facilit” group, can also focus on stimulating activities between groups who have already conducted extended activities during Dakar

may be we can focus on going further on those two lines of work during a next chat.. and exchange on the list before about the vocabulary...;

[19:30:56] Prodip : So, we can conclude the discussion. But what is the decision / output?

[19:31:33] Pierre: prodip - this is a “quiet” start, there is no decision to make, other then confirming participation to the SFEX facilit group

And the scope of the group can be commented [on the group mailing list ] from the invitation texthttp://openfsm.net/projects/SFEXintercom/invitation-SFEX-facilit-2011

Sara and Kiss

[19:27:26] Pierre: for the time being i suggest we welcome Sara and Kiss ! :)

hello kiss hello sara.. now Zambians coming ! http://openfsm.net/projects/WSF-extended/daket-en1

[19:33:41] Kiss : Hi Pierreand everyone, I'm Kiss Brian Abraham from Zambia

[19:33:59] Sara : Hello, I'm Sara in Zambia - member of ASF Council - I mobilized colleagues from SASF (Southern Africa Social Forum) to join daket sessions - SASF was initiated in 2003 in Lusaka!

[19:34:07] Prodip : Hello, Kiss !,Hello Sara!

[19:35:18] Pierre: Sara has been an IC member who got out of her way to develop extended forum ...and now may be we can speak of a zambian team ?

SASF has two meaning in this chat ! South Asia social forum and Southern Africa

[19:37:19] Vitalij: Understand :).

Lusaka daket experience and status by Kiss

[19:38:00] Pierre: Sara, what is the collective vision in Lusaka around social forum extended after the WSF2011 experience?

[19:39:05] Sara : Okay - Zambia team consists ot Sara as an advocate for daket and a team of Kiss the ict wiz-kids, so Kiss can speak of the team!

[19:40:32] Kiss : Action Aid and the Zambia Council For Social Development where instrumental in facillitating peoples participation through funding travel logistics while internet connectivity and equipment was provided by my organisation, Knowledge and Information Service for Society.

There are mainly two components to our participation in the Daket extended

AS main Convenor Ma'am Sara laid the ground for organizations to get involved and also maintained the linkage between Zambia and Dakar by being present in Dakar as 'on the ground Convenor'

the two components are; 1. Content and 2. Access and management

before participation in the video link, we developed content by having a grassroots workshop and using drawings and visual aids to ignite the conversations that informed the discussions on the video link

the connectivity and management process is the second component and most expensive and least available, this was sourced through voluntary effort. As a result of this demonstration, Action Aid representatives considered taking this process throughout Zambia and having satellite social forums

thats the main results I suppose

[19:46:26] Pierre: well Kiss, this is a clear presentation!- we know Zambia has been very elaborate in its preparation

So we understand from the last paragraph that you as a nucleus would be ready to dedicate some energy to outreach and train other groups in Zambia and may be beyond ?

[19:46:52] Pierre: please qualify... @everyone : this chat room is “SFEX facilit” we are here trying to organize to facilitate the extended social forum process.....

Some questions will arise : what is this extended social forum process? how does it relates with social forum events in WSF calendar?, what does it mean to facilitate it ? etc.. this if food for next meetings discussions.....

Southern African SF date

[19:48:58] Kiss : if it comes to outreach, we may have to consider building capacity across the country with Zambia Social Forum partners, but we are at conceptual level at the moment. The Southern Africa Social Forum will be held in Zambia this year and it could prove to be a viable testing ground for national participation

[19:49:18] Pierre: when is it scheduled?

[19:52:17] Kiss : we will have a SASF planning meeting on 2ndsaturday 10th April 2011 in Lusaka,Zambia and am sure concrete dates will be agreed on, but Ma'am Sara may have the dates already

[19:52:39] Pierre: roughly... which quarter..,because i understand we may have two SASF at the same period :)

[19:53:21] Sara : SASFROC will be hold planning meeting on10 April, 6Jun & 5 august BUT SASF between Sept-Nov 2011

[19:53:43] Pierre: yes SASF Dhaka is announced 18-21 November

[19:54:04] Kiss : note that we might have a Zambia Social Forum before this too

[19:54:24] Sara : SASF-Zambia is yet to choose a date, so no clash!

“Synchronize” 2 SASF events, or “sequence” them?

[19:54:57] Pierre: so we can forecast some significant linkage between Bangladesh and southern Africa of course no clash, but roughly the same period for outreach and organization and concretization

[19:55:17] Kiss : that sounds very interesting, perhaps we could even synchronize the hosting of the events

[19:56:01] Sara : Gr8 - feed lessons learned into sasf-Zambia!

[19:56:46] Pierre: having two different date is probably better, since it doubles the opportunities for connection and in each case you have at least one partner who is not too busy..:)

[19:57:26] Sara : synchronizing is more appealing coz the delegates of the two SASFs! can be video-linked!

[19:58:58] Kiss : it always has the effect of liberating the local participants when they see that there are others elsewhere in solidarity with their local experiences

[19:58:35] Pierre: anyway... we assess this further... it is very good news to have a Zambian component in the SFEX facilit group, and a concrete event to work in/with /around

Why are others chipping in?

[19:58:59] Sara : why are others besides Pierre and Zambia chipping in? meaning they are not participating or making comments.

[20:03:03] Pierre: well... they are invited to comment for sure....:)

So we as SFEX facilit group, have already two extension friendly events on the table : Bangladesh and southern Africa for 2011, and we will have more in 2012

Also we can stimulate the 100+ groups which have hands on experience of distance intercommunication inside WSF process to conduct some encounters by themselves outside any event

[20:08:41] Prodip : Hello Pierre, we have a very slow line. So, audio is creating problem. Anyway, I am working in some personal tasks.

[20:09:14] Pierre: ah... this accounts for the lack of comments noted by Sara :)

Zarel- experience from Mexico

[20:03:44] Pierre: zarel might introduce herself..

[20:04:29] Zarel: hi, i'm Zarel, part of spanish faciliting team

[20:04:59] Kiss : hello Zarel

[20:05:02] Sara : hello zarel!

[20:05:22] LISE : hola zarellllll

[20:13:50] Tony: ;) salut zarel

[20:06:18] Zarel: Lise!, Sara, Kiss, Tony, Jules, Pierre, Vitalij, Prodip (and who else?) Hello

[20:08:03] Pierre: zarel we are “listening “ to you ! on plain chat

[20:08:17] Zarel: so, there are two events Sasf and we don't know exacts dates, but maybe sept and november?

in mex last may, we have a experience of local forum expanded, we make aprox 10 encounters and two or three activities enlarged by their organizers

[20:12:28] Pierre: http://openfsm.net/projects/fsmmexx/fotos-comentadas-de-mexx

[20:13:21] Zarel: we have a tent in middle of a local main square, a team about 10 volunteers, and we have to solve and improvise issues like "energy supply" because we didn't have

[20:14:45] Sara : tent is the square permanently or during Dakar-WSF only?

[20:15:21] Zarel: it was during the 3 days of local forum, we make contact with people in India, palestina, Osaka, etc

then we intend to participate at distance in Ussf, and then in Palestine WEF

[20:16:54] Pierre: http://openfsm.net/projects/wefpalestina-mexico/project-home

Other countries can join without holding an own social forum

[20:17:20] Sara : It's great work zarel (clap)

[20:17:31] Zarel: and some organisations here in Mexico are relatively sensitized to distance participation, then..... we have two SASF in sept and nov and different personal experiences in facilitating extended process...

[20:18:54] Sara : Mexican experience shows that other countries can join events even without holding own social forum!

Two actions lines

[20:20:08] Zarel: and a plan proposed by Pierre, that include promote extend sf events, and promote interchange activities between SF organizations, yes?

[20:22:21] Pierre: these are two suggested lines of facilitating action - local-local and local - event, that are in the SFEX home page ( at the bottom )

http://openfsm.net/projects/SFEXintercom/project-home

local - local among the 100+ groups having hands on experience of distance intercommunication

and local- event following the calendar of WSF ...with tens of social forum event s along 2011 and 2012 accrose the world

[20:24:11] Zarel: yes Sara, in Mexico he have discussed a little about the participation in other events Social Forum, it can be centralized, like a Mexican social forum process, but it can be a participation of organizations that did not attend to Mexican social forum process but maybe participate in World social forum process

[20:26:14] Sara : we earlier discussed possibility of holding two regional SF at the same time and the delegates can talk to each other!

[20:27:02] Sara : then your trnd can also be incorporated i.e. other countries joining the chat!

[20:29:50] Pierre: advantage to have the events “in sequence” are that each event is stimulus and an opportunity for distance participation... and this way there is no competition between them, and they all contribute to sustain mobilization and growth around WSF process

Questions from Kiss - balancing cyber and presential linkages

[20:30:06] Kiss : I think there is great potential in the use of the extended forum in social engagement and building connections but I have a few questions for the future

[20:31:03] Pierre: sure kiss... please voice them, we probably won’t address them thoroughly today.. and they stay in our agenda

[20:32:45] Kiss : 1. considering the ease with which we can meet in cyberspace, there is a possibility of physical activism diminishing

[20:33:23] Kiss : 2. How then can we connect these cyber activist connections to tangible actions on the ground and in physical real life situations?

[20:34:05] Kiss : I notice that funding for physical meetings might soon give way to internet meetings and this could pose yet a new challenge, whereas we would have insured that we found funding to bring people from remote areas to attend the forum, now we can keep them where they are and avoid the funding question and instead have a virtual meeting with them?

[20:35:24] Kiss : we need to create safeguards I think

[20:38:15] Zarel: well, i don't know if it is the time and space to speak about this , pierre can help us on it, but i think Kiss, that there are two parallel tasks,

[20:39:23] Zarel: i think there will never be enough funding to bring all the people that want to participate in a Forum and extended is a possibility for those who can even in "the best funding conditions" attend, is a necessary activism about the responsible use of internet.. i think too

[20:39:43] Sara : well, it's true what you say, but we can always move a limited # of people to give the human link like we did for daketen1 zambia!

[20:41:42] Kiss : I think that we must make clear the meaning of the parallels 'human linkage' and 'cyber linkage' to avoid the excuse of not funding the most cost intensive of the two, thank you Zarel

[20:42:45] Pierre: well as i said we won’t address in depth now, but i would give two considerations

1 cost : - WSF2011 cost was 1 000 000 euros, and Dakar extended cost was 3000 euros and most of this 3000 cost was funding equipment that will be used again

2 nature : social forum is a “dialogic process”: people make encounters and discuss, they do not specifically "act" in the forum, and social forum extended shows it is possible to encounter and discuss beyond distance

[20:43:33] Sara : fantastic figures!, I mean that daket was indeed cost-effective and enjoyable too!

[20:45:15] Kiss : that is the solution, but at the same time, the problem lol, we will increasingly find it hard to justify spending 10000000000000000 when we could spend 3000

[20:46:49] Pierre: Kiss i think that giving people possibility to encounter other people and discuss witht them ( distance encounters) and even deliberate ( enlarged activities ) is not liable to diminish activism but on the contrary may raise awareness, empowerment, and activism

[20:47:07] Sara : we are on the right track - because the most important thing out of sf-extended is that we get the voiceless to speak, heard and seen right!

[20:49:03] Kiss : I have raised this question because I observed how a funder who was present at the daket extended could easily change their mind and not fund the travel of people to the Lusaka SASF because they feel that its better to use skype, we need to theorize and contextualize the importance of both processes

[20:49:52] Pierre: @kiss – agree

Assessmentreport
[20:46:46] LISE : Do you think in the financial report of WSF 2011 that the "Dakar extended" will be explained specifically or it will be include in "communication" without details ?

[20:48:32] Pierre: @lise : there will be various assessment processes of WSF -one by LOC one by IC etc.. as part of the ic process communication commission will make a synthesis of 10 project reports

[20:48:52] Pierre: extended social forum = SFEX is one o f the10 projects

...and the assessment report i drafted is here

http://openfsm.net/projects/SFEXintercom/evaldaket-en

[20:50:01] Pierre: it highlights 5 challenges, or expectation around daket, and tells how things went related to those expectations

[20:51:08] Sara : I hear you - let's get another funder to assist busing at least two from each locale to witness take back the 'human-link'. We need both!

[20:51:57] Pierre: i circulated this report yesterday on the SFEX facilit list... the list of our group

you are wellcome to make comments, i will send this report tomorrow on the comcom list

[20:53:18] Sara : merci Pierre for the report - i didn't see it coz of pressure of deadlines!

What is left on our meeting’s agenda?

[20:53:55] Sara : well, what is left on the agenda? (think)

[20:54:26] Pierre: not much for today.. but agreeing on a next meeting and some topics we can discuss on the group mailing list

[20:55:04] Zarel:....so...in 2010 there were a lot of SF events, but now they aren't, i think it can be a good plan mix forms, expanded activities in specific events (since they aren't many) and expanded activities outside events

[20:56:56] Pierre: @zarel - agree

Next chat date

[20:55:51] Sara : okay - what about postpone setting up next chat for now but do it later so that we consult our diaries?

[20:56:29] Kiss : I think we can also consider logistics for the two SASF events and how we can manage them? in the next chat.

[20:56:56] Pierre: @kiss this will require much more than one chat.. :)

Next time Introduction of senegal france palestine brazil

Today the testimony of Senegalese ( the group of volunteers are intending to form an association to promote ) and French teams -(france tried a bigger scale approach ) have not been exposed, but they are both in the group, along with group/people from Palestine and Brazil

Discussing hours and frequency of the chats

[20:57:28] Pierre: regarding the next chat date, i had suggested a bimonthly frequency, and we have a time constraint to accommodate Mexico and Bangladesh, so we can only stay where we are or go earlier...

[20:59:06] Zarel: go earlier and make a party ;)

[20:59:35] Kiss : could we also do these meetings at 11.hrs GMT?

[20:59:50] Pierre: kiss, this is impossible for Mexico

[21:01:02] Zarel: 5am* in Mexico sorry i don't join

[21:00:06] Vitalij: 11 or 23 GMT ?

[21:00:25] Pierre: 23 GMT is impossible for Bangladesh

[21:00:34] Vitalij: And for us

[21:00:39] Kiss : 11 AM GMT

[21:00:56] Pierre: Kiss, Europe and Africa are in the middle

[21:02:25] Kiss : how is 12GMT?

[21:02:26] Sara : monthly is fine, but we need to agree on date and time - both of which i'm not able to confirm coz i've an event to be yet confirmed

[21:02:48] Pierre: well i think monthly is too little

[21:02:58] Kiss : internet is everywhere Ma'am Sara so it will find you wherever you are

[21:03:35] Vitalij: @kiss - agree. This is everywhere.

[21:03:28] Pierre: bi-monthly would be better..i think, because we need to build a group

[21:03:48] Sara : Monthly is fine but I've unconfirmed event hence I'm reluctant to agree to a date now.

[21:04:18] Pierre: Sara... you may skip one of two meetings.. Attendance will be statistical, that is why frequency should be more than monthly

[21:04:43] Sara : same time as today?

[21:04:50] Vitalij: And I propose to meet not in first day of month.

[21:04:56] Pierre: bi monthly.. and possible as today

[21:05:01] Sara : same time as today?

[21:05:24] Pierre: until we work on another possibility

[21:05:32] Vitalij: OK

[21:05:52] Pierre: so it could be Tuesday 15th March same hour

[21:06:02] Kiss : great!

[21:06:18] Vitalij: Good.

[21:06:28] Zarel: an what is the hour?

[21:06:41] Pierre: 17h GMT?

[21:06:47] Vitalij: Well/

[21:07:09] Zarel: 11h Mexico

[21:07:12] Kiss : could we alternate the two meetings so that one comes at this hour which is late for Africa and one comes at midday 12GMT in case internet is down so I can visit a cafe

[21:07:12] Sara : Kiss, I've no laptop, so internet cannot find me anywhere!

[21:07:27] Pierre: alternatively we can try 13 GMT at some point

[21:07:39] Kiss : 13GMT is great!

[21:07:49] Vitalij: Well.

[21:08:01] Sara : on what date?

[21:08:07] Vitalij: 15/03

[21:08:20] Sara : merci

[21:08:30] Vitalij: (F) :)

Next chats : March 15^th 13 GMT, then March 29^th 17 GMT

[21:08:32] Kiss : so its 15th March at 13.00hrs gmt?

[21:08:52] Pierre: yes let us try this and the next one two weeks later could be 17GMT

[21:09:00] Tony: (wave)

[21:09:03] Kiss : Brilliant!

[21:09:11] Sara : (y)

[21:09:37] Zarel: 15th march 13:00 GMT

Log of the chat

[21:10:06] Pierre: i will publish the log of this chat on the SFEX space will send the link, the log is slightly reshuffled to have coherent sequence of items and we will keep in touch on the SFEX facilit list...SFEX-facilit@lists.openfsm.net

[21:10:37] Sara : gr8 - adios!

Local forum week in 2012 - French experience in local forums

[21:12:21] LISE : ok 15 march I have absolutely no idea where I will be, perhaps on the road between Dakar and Bamako, but well, I will follow the exchange on our SFEX page !

by the way, when we 'll know if local social forum week will be include on official WSF agenda ? good opportunity fo SFEX but let's talk about this project on next chat.. or next next chat...

[21:14:13] Pierre: sure lise, i think this will not be any problem, i understand this week won’t be before mid 2012

@Sara : local forum meaning “not national /regional” ones

[21:15:06] Sara : local social forum where?

[21:15:16] Pierre: there is a “network of local social forum facilitators” in France http://openfsm.net/projects/facili-tation-de-fsl/english and there are about 40 such little forums in France

[21:15:21] Sara : still here, of French men and women?

[21:16:10] Pierre: yes, this network was present in Dakar, and intended to make two activities in Dakar WSF but they were pulverized by the logistical absence of room, but the network promoted a convergence assembly in the room of daket ! http://openfsm.net/projects/facili-tation-de-fsl/Dakar-s-call daket FR60

[21:18:30] Sara : oh, good that they can still hold their forum! activists can always find alternatives! well, i hope they are not just complaining, but also offering solutions!

[21:19:46] Pierre: in France, “Dakar extended” has been a more or less cooperative approach with some facilitators giving an overview of it.. 150 activities in 80 locations took place, so it is a specific first experience of “distance participation to WSF at country level”

Each group has included itself in this Dakar extended process in its own style and according to people understanding and familiarity with internet 2.0 ... there have been some mishaps, but on and all it is quite positive

[21:23:34] Sara : i mean what you said about ' giving overview' - perhaps i should have asked 'what overview?'

[21:23:59] Pierre: look here:http://openfsm.net/projects/facili-tation-de-fsl/localisations~xa0et-activites~xa0Dakar-etendu this is an overview of “what happened where”

Social forum extended and WSF2011 website

[21:25:11] Pierre: ideally all these 150 activities would have been all on the WSF2011 event website, should this site have been “friendly” to extension, which it was not

ideally the Zambia daket en1 page [and all other 100+ pages in daket] would have been there on the WSF website, and extended activities organizers would have been able to edit their page and interact with other activity organizers, through a site messaging system, whether organizers of activities in Dakar or organizers of other extended activities local or distance encounter……but this has not been the case

Palestine event website was more friendly to extension, and hopefully SASF and SASF websites will be also friendly to extension.

Websites: this is also something we will address in this SFEX facilit group

[21:28:36] Sara : Kiss take NOTE about our website!

[21:29:08] Kiss : its in wordpress at the moment and easily manipulatable

[21:29:32] Pierre: http://wef-palestine.org/soa-list: this is the list of activities in WEF Palestine : see that there is a specific type of activity : 'extended activity"
So each activity has its own page with the description of the activity, that the activity organizer can edit progressively, and it si possible to write to activity organizers without knowing their address just clicking on a button

[21:30:10] Kiss : perhaps we could have a uniformity in presenting website information?

[21:30:14] Pierre: @kiss : website design is a significant task, first we can discuss what we expect from the website: http://openfsm.net/projects/SFEXintercom/on-objectives-of-registration-system

[21:31:08] Kiss : brilliant!

[21:31:38] Pierre: this is a big chunk of our common working agenda : having useful and interactive websites that allow decentralized networking and agglutination

In Dakar the website was a non creative registration system, purely administrative, that was a closed back box until junary 15th ! it was not possible to see what other people had registered unitl that date : no lateral communication could take place at all,

Not to speak of “Dakar extended” which as a simple “tick box” without any qualification, making this useless for Dakar extended build up and mobilization

Anyway we will address those points later on in chat and lists :)

[21:35:29] Kiss : that will be good capacity building Pierre!

[21:38:04] Pierre: indeed extending a forum event is a quite interesting and challenging task, where you have to be convinced that this will not reduce the attractivity of the presential event, and will boost the overall effect of the event in a whole region, creating local activities and initiatives, and allowing people to live the social forum experience in many ways and places, energized by the main event

Discussion the Two SASFs time relation

[21:40:14] Sara : exciting indeed - so do we tell our Zambian colleagues that we shall have parallel SASFs in November or what?

[21:42:31] Pierre: sara, as i said earlier i think this parallelization is not necessarily a good idea and should be collectively assessed...

[21:43:37] Zarel: Daka dates are yet fixed, right? when it will be?

[21:43:59] Pierre: 18-21 november. We have time to discuss this on the list more in depth; of course it is SAfricaSF process decision...local extension of the process in Southern africa is a challenging goal

[21:46:12] Sara : okay- we shall discuss both options with pros and cons and will share the result on this page.

[21:46:32] Pierre: (bow)

[21:46:57] Sara : what are you doing pierre?

[21:47:11] Pierre: am bowing to your proposal = i agree] Sara :<<< we shall discuss both options with pros and cons and will share the result on this page.

[21:47:35] Sara : oh thanks!

[21:47:46] Kiss : ok, am going off to sleep now. Good night!

[21:47:52] Sara : are done now?

[21:48:29] Pierre: sure we overextended the chat, moved by the interest of what was exchanged

the agenda of this first chat was " a quiet start, with introduction of participants and possible comments about the invitation letter and the assessment document

[21:51:05] Zarel: maybe we should have an agenda or some order... or points to discuss, maybe... hehehe

Final exchange with Emile from Senegal

[21:11:32] Pierre: emile !!!

[21:11:53] Pierre: you are somehow late (think)

[21:13:18] Pierre: next chat we will have an introduction from senegales team and from french team isnide this SFEX facilit group

[21:13:23] EMILE: yes pierre

[21:49:54] Pierre: emile from Senegal has attended and will speak out in a next session :) based on the progress of the Dakar volunteer group

[21:50:06] EMILE: yes im here

[21:50:22] Sara : hi emile!

[21:51:05] EMILE: ok its good the next session i will on time

[21:51:20] Pierre: emile this is a “crash course” in social forum practice and theory so feel free to ask any question

[21:51:36] EMILE: ok good, so yesterday i discussed with sara and she said that they had something in south Africa, sasf

[21:53:02] Pierre: soutHERN africa social forum. yes :)

[21:53:35] EMILE: so we an assembly for Saturday morning, and i want to get informed the other volunteers. thats why i wanna have more information for that

[21:54:37] Sara : thanks emile, we discussed it as you'll see from transcript of earlier part. SASF-Zambia will be in the last quarter of 2011.

[21:56:01] Pierre: so you have enough time to get prepared to foster distance participation from senegalese organizations to SASF.... :)

[21:56:52] EMILE: really we have time

[21:57:27] Pierre: but time flows quicklier than we expect :) it take times to share ideas and vision and also it take times to communicate them to other people and it take time to implement them.... i wished the volunteer team i Dakar could have been involved earlier than was the case.. so you could really prepare Dakar.. and you did a great job in a few days time, it would have been even better if you had started earlier

[22:01:51] Sara : yes indeed Senegal team you were great - THANKS - bye all for sure now - getting back to my report writing - but i'm enjoying the extension planning chat! tILL NEXT CHAT (chuckle)!

[22:02:05] EMILE: that’s why we want to get informed soon and try to get contact with some organisation in Dakar who acts and the same way and same subject

[22:03:15] Pierre: yes this is a key point, Zarel has tried hard to find partners for the 20 spanish speaking activities in Daket, and if you had been collectively on board earlier she would have found answers !

[22:03:50] EMILE: yes pierre, this is in our plan: we want to find partner here sonly, et give them maximum of information. the way of the social forum is for exchange, and we are in that way

[22:05:56] Pierre: :) well... that is good news, i have to leave now ... bye to all (wave) was a good start i think

[22:07:01] EMILE: bye pierre the next session, when is it?

[22:07:36] Pierre: see the chat above :) bye

[22:07:58] EMILE: ok good

OpenFSM

sfex facilit minute1

Key

Meeting March1st 2010