• sfex facilit minute2

last modified March 15, 2011 by zarel


Index march 15th

start. 1

Emile : News from senegal 3

Luciano – from sao paulo. 4

relation to sao Paulo social forum.. 4

Next events ? SASF southern Africa. 5

pros and cons about formalizing associations. 5

Write a collective document about extended activities?. 6

Communication about extended in SASF. 6

Positionning of sfex. 6

Back to documenting sfex. 6

Facilitation group by languages. 8

Channels of dissemination. 8

Ibrahim has to go. 8

Documentation: continued. 8

Working group? Documentation page. 9

Luciano’s image. 9

Caring about the structure of the documentation page. 9

Next chat. 10

Update on SASF process – challenges. 10

Next steps and bye. 12




[08:13:29] aaman: hope to join u at 13h gmt - this is Aaman from dhaka, bangladesh

hallo everyone on board, see u then

[13:51:37] ÉMILE: someone here

[13:56:29] Ana : Hi! I'm here too :)

[13:56:43] ÉMILE: good

[13:57:17] Ana : hello Émile! I'm Ana from Portugal, Porto

[13:57:40] ÉMILE: émile from senegal dakar nice to meet ya

[13:58:21] Ana : Nice and great and wonderful to meet you!

[13:58:36] ÉMILE: wow y+

[13:59:03] Ana : blush+

[14:00:23] Ana : Our group was in contact with Souleymane during the WSF Dakar...

[14:01:14] ÉMILE: yeah souleymane

[14:02:34] Ana : Yes, a great person, intelligent, willing, working...but we experienced some difficulties of connection (internet and interlocutors) - I am considering reviewing our all model of participation as far as the group EDUMUDARTE is concerned. You know...

[14:07:06] ÉMILE: yeah i see i think its of the line to discuss today

[14:07:06] Zarel: hello guys!,this is Zarel from Mexico hi Ana and Émile

[14:08:05] ÉMILE: hello zarel

[14:09:43] Ana : hi Zarel! Good to be with you again :)

[14:11:57] Pierre: hello!

[14:12:21] Ana : hello Pierre!

[14:12:33] ÉMILE: welcome pierre bow+

[14:12:59] Pierre: i had some trouble getting in, ibrahim, aaman , kiss should be coming shortly

[14:13:34] Ibrahim : hi  every one: this ibrahim tamimi from palestine

[14:13:37] ÉMILE: good

 [14:14:47] Ibrahim : hi pierre

[14:14:53] Pierre: hello ibrahim !

 [14:15:00] Zarel: yeap,

[14:16:00] Zarel: Hi Luciano, Ibrahim

[14:16:52] Chubatyj Vitalij: Hi! I have a work and I cannot read right now. I've switched off any alerts. I'll read later

[14:17:51] Luciano : Hello everyone!

[14:18:02] Ana : Hi Luciano!

[14:57:54] Kiss: had a technical hitch, apologies for being late, my browser was showing me offline

[14:58:12] Pierre:  welcome kiss !

Emile : News from senegal

[14:14:08] Pierre: so may be émile can give an update about where the senegal group is ...

 [14:15:26] Pierre: émile?

 [14:15:56] ÉMILE: yes pierre

[14:16:17] Pierre: émile tell us about what you did in the group

 [14:16:27] ÉMILE: ok good, so last Saturday we had a meeting to decide of the name of the group  and the name is FIC and the group is an association to promote relation between some association which are in Senegal to association around the word which have same ideas and same struggle  i mean, we just facilitate their connection

[14:23:47] Ana : ok, so I understand taht FIC will be a platform that congregates other associations in order to organize participation on WF

[14:23:54] Pierre:  see here http://openfsm.net/projects/fic/project-home  a starting space for FIC

[14:24:19] ÉMILE: yes its that

[14:25:18] Ana : it is a great idea. Are you gong to turn a list available for other participants? to enable futur contacts

[14:26:22] ÉMILE: so right we have just the contacts of community who participate in the wsf but soonly the list of participants will be available its a line of our next  meeting session

 [14:28:18] Pierre: so if anyone in the sfex group sees a possibility for a distance encounter with organizations in senegal ... we contact you

[14:28:38] ÉMILE: yes we have three members in this chat  room jules and mousmasse

 [14:31:39] Pierre: hello jules and mousmasse ! - i understand that you need to balance the "adminstrative" work of creating an association ( with no too much formality) with some  concrete activities that will bring life into the project

[14:32:45] ÉMILE: they are not online, they have no electricity yet

[14:33:50] Luciano : ok, thank you and thanks for the information Émile!

[14:34:05] ÉMILE: y+

[14:34:29] Luciano : I'm also looking forward to see the results of that imitative

[14:35:03] Pierre: luciano .. you can help by proposing activities with Sao paulo ...

[14:35:22] Luciano : Yes, I can Pierre :)

[14:35:25] Pierre: you have some background! http://openfsm.net/projects/fsm2009e-saopaulo/project-home


[14:35:25] ÉMILE: yeah good idea pierre

Luciano – from sao paulo

[14:30:46] Luciano : on this Room I should count as well ;]so, Pierre, what are our objectives here today? for the record.

 [14:32:38] Pierre: luciano ... these bimonthly meetings are for the time being to allow people to know each other and we have some points that we can exchange on

 [14:35:48] Luciano : Yes, may I introduce myself, for the record?

[14:35:58] Pierre: sure ..

[14:36:40] Luciano : I've participated in WSF at Belem and had my first experience with extended by that time and since then, I'm geting envolved as I can .I'm a university's student and I volunteer at some groups that work with Politics for young people

my work is at television and radio, other experiences with extended were with Mexico and Ecosol (Economia Solidaria Brasil)

[14:42:30] Pierre: this is the activity you facilitated in santa maria


[14:42:44] Luciano : yes!That was a good activity, despite a lot of people who claimed to come, didn'tbut the final result was good!


relation to sao Paulo social forum

[14:39:15] Pierre: luciano, are you involved in the process of sao paulo social forum? currently

[14:39:25] Luciano : not too close, but Americo keeps me up to date, they are getting strong, like, more people participating of the process

[14:40:29] Pierre: you know it is important that in the sfex group we relate to some collective process, sao paulo being a 20 million city ....

[14:41:12] Luciano : haha, yes, you are totally right Pierre! Now that Dakar is finished I'll be more close to FSSP (Forum Social São Paulo)

[14:42:30] Pierre: good news ....

 [14:44:27] Pierre: ok kiss from zambia says he is coming soon ..

[14:45:13] Pierre: ana , thank you for your message on the list  - do you have comments or questions ?same for luciano ..

Next events ? SASF southern Africa

[14:47:01] Luciano : I have a question, in the past reunion some other SFs events were named, do we know any organizer of them Pierre?

[14:47:51] Zarel: SASF

[14:48:11] Luciano : we must talk about extended as soon as possible, keep the idea on mind, or else extended will continue to not be a priority :/ what is sad, since this is the tool to make it really a World Forum

[14:49:22] Pierre: luciano - a sara's report excerpt was just  circulated on the sfex list - sara and kiss are willing to promote SASF extended

[14:51:37] Luciano : Great Pierre, I'll look it up!

pros and cons about formalizing associations

[14:49:33] Ana : well...I do have some comments on the extended activities. I read the report of the last meeting...and I was really interested in what Tony said...

first, I do believe that the fact of having an Association like FIC that has a space on openfsm that congregates other associations is very important in terms of future WF.

AS far as the last reunion is concerned, I think it encounters the urgent necessities pointed out by Tony. We need that kind of organization  to promote the extended participation.

 [14:51:53] Pierre: @ana  well FIC is an association in senegal , you can have various effective collective forms for promoting extended participation, some formal , some unformal depending the context, pls quote tony by clicking on the sequence herehttp://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom/sfex-facilit-minute1

in the appropriate sequence in the index

[14:53:58] Luciano : well, I have a little resistence about formalizing something like that in here(Sao Paulo) for example

[14:54:10] Pierre: there is a similar association in sao paulo called ADI that luciano knows , but it has not been active

[14:54:25] Luciano : yeah, that is the problem

[14:55:39] Pierre: also ana , when you are strongly connected to a specific social forum process like SASF you will not create an organisation , you will create a commission for SASF extended as we did for dakar   - it was a subcommission of communication commission

[14:56:03] Luciano : indeed

[14:56:06] Pierre: in this commisison  some organisations and some individuals can cooperate

Write a collective document about extended activities?

[14:56:29] Ana : Well...I dont we write a collective document on extended activities that we could use for promotion of extended activities amond associations. Establishing contacts that could be used at any time..

[14:58:06] ÉMILE: i think its a good idea

[14:58:12] Pierre:  @ana  this is done progressively , and depending the context ... there is already quite a litterature ...and it can be improved and completed

: regarding contacts .... we have in openfsm various linguistic spaces  and the various spaces created  - palestine and mexico  -  some contacts

[15:00:11] Zarel: and i think that have a space (in openfsm by ex) that promote interchange between organisations isn't only a labor of collectives or groups, but too a SFEX faciliting work and it works in parallel with the sub comision that promote the extended forums if that is the case

[15:00:22] ÉMILE: a document is a necessary tool to promote extended activity

 [15:02:45] Ana : Zarel, I was not thinking of a space, but just a document that could be improved, completed, etc. that we could send to the participants of the WSF, establishing  a contact, promoting the extended activities (not in favour of presence of course, just as another way to participate) : I thought of that because of the limits of exclusion and the ecological benefits of extended participations

[15:07:05] Luciano : I think we came out with a idea like this when Santa Maria was finished, didn't we Pierre? To make a document with the major objective of tell organizations involved and not involved with the forum what kind of activities were "Extended" and what were their purpose

Communication about extended in SASF

[15:03:58] Kiss: i think that SASF could formalise the extended if there is a document showing global solidarity

 [15:06:27] Pierre: @]kiss you and sara, and whoever will get involved will have indeed to communicate inside SASF process to explain what is an extended SASF

Positionning of sfex

[15:06:27] Pierre:  sfex is a global initiative of promotion - congregating individuals, some local organisations,(i-e FIC) and some people involved in extending specific events  

- sfex can try to promote  intercommunicaitons not related to an event ,

-and sfex can help the extnesion team in each event that want to go extended

 [15:07:05] Luciano : Yes, I think activities outside Forum dates are a evolution!

Back to documenting sfex

[15:08:05] Pierre: there has been some things done , each in a specific context .. we can list them  and see their good points and points to be improved

calls - invitations – explanations in mexico in wefpalestine in Dakar, see pre dakar com here


see invitations here : http://openfsm.net/projects/dakar-etendu/invit2

 [15:10:51] Zarel: i think i agree with you Luciano and Ana, but i think, i 'm not sure, i'm just thinking... that in sfevents there are the organizers the principal actors that ¿need? to be in the ¿mood? ¿contact? ¿sentiment? to get involved with extended

[15:11:17] Pierre:  @zarel : agree

[15:11:32] Zarel: so, i ' m seeing too ways (but sometime i see thing that are'nt there)

[15:11:37] Ana : I was thinking that the document (that could also be reviewed at any time) could be systematicaly sent to all groups or platforms (like FIC that would send it to their members) in order to have a connection, someone that would be in charge of the extended activities

[15:12:47] Zarel: yes Ana, so, one way is promote between org all over the world the extend modality of participate in a forum event.... (but just like an option that they have to explore and discusse with the org of the event) and second the same same promote but with the organization  of the event

[15:13:33] Luciano : Well, without the motivation of the (event) organizers the process will be more difficult, like no structure dedicated to expanded activities, just to point a thing

[15:14:22] Pierre: agree with zarel and luciano : to have maximum extended participaiton around an event , there is a double movement :


 the organizing committee can mobilize and communicate about extended partiicpation - see the example here : http://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom/extended-vocabulary

and there can be facilitation groups outside the organizing comittee creating a dynamics of participation - zarel experienced that in mexico with palestine forum

[15:15:21] Ibrahim : what luciano  say i agree AND THIS THE PROBLEM THAT I FACE IT WITH SOME ORGNAIZATION  that was participation

[15:15:34] Luciano : yes, that's why something too much  formal isn't necessary, I think it would froze the whole idea

 [15:16:31] Ana : It is a work in progress, I wasn't thinking in forcing organisations and associations, etc . just letting them now and decide for themselves

 [15:18:28] Zarel: @Ana , yeah, i think we should inform the org and asso , and i think that is a priority point of sfex team

[15:18:50] Luciano : And that's what we are trying to do since a long time , Ana and Zarel.

[15:19:37] Luciano : But in extended we may notice that the results, others than documents helps a lot to difuse the info between the groups

[15:19:59] Zarel: but we have to considere that some times there isn't sufficient that the org want to participate, but too that it can be possible in the context of the forum and their organizers

[15:20:37] Luciano : as many activities point out and show how great and positive they were, Extended will become a demand, not an "accessory"

 [15:21:19] Pierre:  @luciano agree that result and positive earmouth communication is very important . a best way to involve organizers is to help them participate in the extnesion of an event before theirs - see case of Kiss and Sara  :)

Facilitation group by languages- pros and cons

[15:15:58] Pierre: please note that on the occasion of wsf dakar - an infrastructure for facilitation group by language has been created  in FR ES PT AR EN  :)

 [15:17:20] Zarel: i don't know if operation by language is the best thing,

 [15:21:19] Pierre:  @ zarel ... i welcome discussion on the interest of monolinguistic facilitation groups ..i do think it is a simpler way with a commonality of culture and they can be permeated by a global view maintained by sfex facilit group

..these faciltation groups  related to sfex  initiative are independent of event and can cooperate with the various organizing comittees

Channels of dissemination ?

@ ana , of course having documents to communicate is important , we also need mailing list to send them on  :)

Ibrahim has to go

[15:21:14] Ibrahim :  please forgive me  I have to leave as the road will be closed by the settler as they are protesting today .

 [15:21:29] Ibrahim : thanks all

 [15:22:16] Ana : thanks Ibrahim :)

[15:22:24] Pierre: ibrahim ... do you have some info to share from Palestine experience ?

Sfex Documentation: continued

[15:21:54] Ana : If we decide towards a shared document that could be translated in different languages, we need to create a list of all participants which we could contact for every event.

 [15:22:43] Luciano : for me, for example, it's natural that if someone of my organization goes to a SF, he must report to us in some way, like we did at Belem and started a extended to tell how things were doing and etc... But it seems that isn't so natural to everyone this kind of feeling

[15:23:46] Pierre: @agree with luciano ... it is a long process .. motivated delegates in Belem and dakar willing to intercommunicate with their people back home  are a precious resource

[15:24:09] Zarel: and the conditions aren't always the best for that

Working group? Documentation page

[15:25:56] Pierre: from this discussion i feel that may be a working group could list the documents communicating about extended participation that  we have at hand ( with links to them) and point out improvement  -this would help stay very concrete since each document has been produced in a specific context

what do you think ...?

[15:26:23] Luciano : Agree

[15:27:56] Zarel: maybe we can have all in a page? or just with the links?

 [15:28:17] Pierre: yes all links in a long page  with some contextualizing comments

[15:28:47] Luciano : I think a brief  comment about what the link is about and a Lead at the top of the document is enough

[15:29:13] Pierre: we could easily coedit the page .. having one or two people respnsible for the page structure

[15:29:44] Zarel: ok

Luciano’s image

[15:29:57] Luciano : Pierre, send me again, please, a brief explanation of how expanded works, I'll try to make an Image

[15:30:11] Pierre: http://openfsm.net/projects/sfexintercom/extended-vocabulary

[15:30:44] Luciano : Right, give me a day or two to make out the concept

[15:30:44] Pierre: this is a short explanation

Caring about the structure of the documentation page

[15:31:50] Pierre: who wants to be caring about  " structure " of the page ?

[15:32:13] Luciano : like html codes? I'm not good with it :/

[15:32:33] Pierre: well maintaining a common look, can be done with plain editing, having and index can help


copying this can help make an index, so people access directly some items if the page is long

[15:34:19] Zarel: @pierre..... is better copying that learn :|

[15:34:56] Pierre: pls explain

[15:35:30] Zarel: if you send me the links you have i can intend to do this "structure", nearly all people in this list have a make a doc  to invite or promote participation in extend activitites or forums?

[15:37:56] Pierre: zarel . good questions ..and  -thanks  for volunteering !

  just create a page in sfex space with an appropriate name and we will all  be coping links or sending them to you - and comment the "taxonomy" you wil propose

 [15:38:39] Zarel: space... i think it can be a page in sfexspace, i think

[15:38:44] Pierre: yess

[15:39:02] Zarel: ok

[15:39:23] Luciano : good, what else?:)

[16:09:50] Zarel: so, i only create a page... and all you make your own links?

 [16:10:29] Pierre: zarel of course not ; you can also edit many links; and we complete and comment

 [16:11:24] Zarel: so , i didn't understand, we continue by mail... i supose!good afertnoon or day or whatever to all!

[16:11:54] Ana : I'll send links, on the edumudarte activity as soon as possible, to you Zarel

Next chat

[15:42:38] Pierre: we can confirm next meeting  on tuesday 29th late

[15:43:03] Pierre: if we go on alternating 13GMt and 18GMT

[15:43:03] Chubatyj Vitalij: OK.: I don't sure about 13 GMT....

[15:46:34] Luciano : I have to go to another meeting, 29th at 18GMT?

[15:46:49] Pierre: (yes luciano )

[15:47:09] Luciano : thanks, see you all again next time. Thanks for the chat!

[16:09:57] Ana I cant confirm my presence next 29th at 18h gmt.

Update on SASF process – challenges

[15:37:56] Pierre  and after that may be kiss can tell about the dynamics of SASF think+

 [15:39:31] Pierre: well Kiss? you update us on SASF process ?

 [15:44:39] Kiss: am having erratic connection

[15:45:53] Pierre: kiss can you give us some elements about SASF process before we go?

[15:46:22] Kiss: The SASF Process is obviously taking place in Lusaka

we have various components to the SASF which are directly related to the WSF, at the moment, Zambia has called a meeting with WSF comrades from the region, we have a few problems and I will highlight them here and perhaps we can share the solution

1. South Africa

South Africa as a member country of the SASF is a major component of the regional process but they have never had a social forum of their own because they have massively differing views on how the process should be held as a space for mutual engagement, we have tried to

work on their forum as a means of enriching the regional process and perhaps the DAKET extended could provide such an avenue?

2. Funding.

SASF funding is at the moment, SASF funding will be coming from action aid who take over from MS Danish corporation but increasingly we see this support diminishing

3. Local Authority.

Zambia will be experiencing elections this year and we anticipate obstructions to our activities as the State consistently curtails all expressions of freedom during elections and we may be mistaken for partisan cadres

[15:54:51] Pierre: (0 kiss what do you mean by "directly related to wsf" ? )

(1 are there local forums in south african  -not national level, town level .. ... a good website inviting to extended participation could be stimulating local participation in south africa )

(3 when are the elections ?)

[15:56:53] Kiss: the SASF mirrors the WSF as we usually have identical thematic spaces like the women's clusters, cultural activities etc.

with regards to South Africa, they have not reached a stage where they are having any Social forums locally

Our president here in Zambia has the power to announce the election date and he does this when everyone least expects, at the moment though we know it will be this year, he has not unwrapped the mystery,

[15:58:39] Zarel: :S

[15:58:49] Kiss: to an extent, our local elections could impact the forum either positively or negatively depending on the political climate

these are the considerations we have to face as we plan SAF and this is the level of reflection we are at

[15:59:42] Pierre: thank you ...

[15:59:56] Ana : thanks Kiss

 [16:02:39] Pierre: an idea coming spontaneously to my mind is that

- having a good(extension friendly) website ( re our last chat conversation )

- and communicating early to have  a strong proportion of activities held in a decentralised way:  not in Lusaka, but spread over southern Africa,

 Could put you less dependent on funding and authorities

and lusaka would be the gathering place for delegates dedicated to networking in the name of their organization and giving feedback live to their local fellows ( encounters and  enlarged activities )

So Lusaka “centric event” would not have a challenge of quantitative number, but a challenge of networking quality:

This of course implies a widespread use of internet and may be unrealistic in the local context .... but i assume that internet is accessible to organized groups somehow

[16:05:13] Kiss: developing on ways of dealing with unfriendly environments63, I will share these alternatives with my colleagues.

Next steps and bye

[16:06:50] Pierre: so we go on exchanging on the list until our next chat march 29th 18GMT

please contribute to the documentation page opened by zarel, thanks for your participation !

anyone here ;)?

[16:08:34] Zarel: ...

[16:09:48] Kiss: thank you so much

 [16:09:57] Ana : Ok. talk to you soon.

 [16:10:03] Zarel: thanks to you,a d to all, kiss ;)

 [16:12:15] Ana : bye. Have a nice day!

[16:12:30] Pierre: bye ...

[16:12:35] Kiss: bye**