From left to right :Jeremy Catherine Hanah Frederic ? Larissa Ian Fabrizio Paco Leo Pierre Candida Daniel Lisa Jason Jean Karine Fabien Anais

Participants - Ole – Hannah ( norwegian social forum facilitation committee - Larissa – ( norwegian solidarity committee latin america) - Daniel - Leo (austria) originally representative in IC WSF of euromarche - now representative of prague spring two - Karine ( france) tournons la page - Alice (france) CRID - Jason (italy- florence) initially representative of one world - now representative of RIPESS in IC WSF - Frederic ( france) remix the commons – politicizing the commoning – francophone networkFrance Canada africa belgium - Lisa (italy) ARCI defense of Italian land – organic without certification defend old farmers - Pierre (France) representing Caritas in IC WSF - Jean (switzerland) peace movement - Helsinki assembly - was in Florence 20 years ago – I do not represent anybody here - Jeremy (France) I do not represent anyone - was with Danielle mitterand foundation – involved in commons and Kurdistan rojava - Ian ( france) representing Attac in IC WSF - Antonio (italy) Focuspuller small collective in IC wsf - Fabrizio (italy) farmer LVC working group on agroecology  Arrival of : Anais( France) - Emmaus international - Catherine ( France) representative of CRID in IC WSF - Fabien (France) FAL member of crid and attac - Candida (portugal) climate design territorial ProjectDaniel (Portugal) exile from brazil fascism -climate design

This written  discussion can be also commented in the agenda of the european continental session visible here http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.9v 

Participants Alice @18 - Anais @19 - Candida -@9 - Carine @17 - Catherine @26 - Daniel @8 -24- Daniel @14- Fabien @28 - Fabrizio @16 -32- Hanah @13 - Ian @1 -7 -11 - 21 - 25 Jason @2-30 - Jean@6 - Jeremy @10 -27 - Larissa @15 - Leo @3 - 22- 31 - Lisa @23 -Ole @1 -4 -12-20- Paco @1-5R- Pierre @29

inputs after in person meeting Tord@33 -
Herebelow Note taking by Pierre in Florence (see @29) , with invitation to review and develop the inputs  

• step1/ For participants in the meeting having shared email  or in contact through the european ic discussion social network group ;  is possible to review your inputs  (notes are sent by mail)
• 2/ For European IC member organizations present in the european IC social network group  and who where or who were not in the Florence meeting it is possible to make input
• 3/ Other  european based groups can  make input,  inasmuch introduced by a participant in the meeting

@1 Ole(*) https://join.wsforum.net/organizations/213  - After a catastrophic Mexico WSF2022 experience https://wsf2022.org/  - Seminar in tunis proposed from Maghreb is loosely organized. Hopefully a place where discussion can take place.IC  meeting  has decide to make continental discussions towards tunis. Bring in tunis what are the struggles - how the movements understand the WSF as a useful space for their struggles. Date for European webinar but no much energy into it and no date confirmed, we can bring context to tunis from europe

There is not a very clear agenda for this meeting. What we can bring from Europe to tunis about the future of WSF. Organizers said that this event in Florence is not a European social forum, they want to give European movements an occasion to reconnect and start ground work toward something. Who is involved in this discussion

Ian(*) nothing is prepared, so maybe we can make a round of inputs

Paco may be someone can be summarizing the debate in IC

@2 Jason(*) https://join.wsforum.net/organizations/263 – we would risk monopolizing the discussion doing this. We all have different knowledge of WSF. Let us See what we imagine for a European space, and how that can feed into the WSF Expectations for Tunis  discussion  in December. This 4 day meeting in Florence is not a Social forum, there was no possibility for  building  a process. It is a more humble thing than 20 years ago. However, we feel a very strong need for reconnecting and finding a strong voice. In what form ? This is totally open. The Assembly space on saturday and sunday is a conversation where we will try to figure out ways forward -

@3 Leo https://join.wsforum.net/organizations/7191 I only want to say – since several years , more than a decade, there has been discussion in wsf about two currents : those faithful to wsf charter porto Alegre, which sets up rules for wsf as a common meeting ground and agree that wsf should not take a voice of its one, on behalf of participants and on behalf of the IC. The other current considers that the situation has changed .Am part of this other current. and we are trying to make clear that one needs a global action in the converging structure of WSF. We are thinking of an assembly process, some coincidences, a process of convergence. We all agreed to a process of discussion – not only an event WSF but also a process in between events – We have to change certain things not fitany(?) more that have to be changed.This discussion has influenced the last Mexico forum –with a rather substantial split -with people who want to go on organizing the forum – not because they are lazy, it is the so called renovators does not fit in the present time, where we need a common action - in 2003 there was a big mobilization launched from Europe against war in iraq which was said it was a decision of the european social forum, certain rumor not correct - no a political party no a central committee - organizing process through many players, in form of assembly. IC is going to meet in a seminar in tunis -

@4 Ole(*) -how can the work we do as organizations can be helped by our participation in WSF? - how can the wsf be relevant for the movements participating in it ?

@5R Paco https://join.wsforum.net/organizations/6853 - we are facing a big complexity - my little opinion is that the idea of WSF ESFcould still work and that is why am still here of course . A part of us wants to keep the open space where we meet - LVC arrives, participates, but does not contribute to building the forum. That is why there are many events outside the forum in particular on climate

Give a space and try to find a new idea to a new type of assembly of social movements that lan spoke about . World social forum assembly?  There the  idea since belem 2009, 30 assemblies where launched( link http://openfsm.net/projects/convergences ) - we need to go to the action.  Assembly of assemblies. NGO steal the idea and concept from social movements. in recent years i have seen many words sucha as agroecology, Foord sovereignty and others taken and re-used by NGO and institutions. In many case these words that express concepts over years of trials are taken and emptied of their political meaning. In ma cases also international institutions such as FAO or UN. In any case; it is a long speech to make. An interesting book about it is No logo by Naomi Klein.

@6 Jean(*) -1/ It is important to have this feedback on history of WSF 2/ we cannot continue this debate eternally 3/ believe in two form exchange of idea and where part of the forum decide for action we have to articulate them 4/ would like to hear opinion of those who are here for the first time – what are their expectation, as people do not wait for us - 

@7 Ian(*) – At first two years ago when i got involved for Attac https://join.wsforum.net/organizations/176  in the WSF  pr, i felt indifferent to this old people discussion “wsf as open space” and/or “wsf as political actor a as whole”,  and now i have build up  my personal opinion, and  it am clearly supporting the WSF as only an open space 

@8 Daniel I have participated in 5 wsf events ( https://wsf2021.net/13-eventos-fsm/ )  - my agenda is agroecology and climate - how we keep up and change what we need to change

@9 Candida I came on invitation of Daniel with no experience of social four- focus on permaculture and making community together – make coordination 

@10 Jeremy - participated in one WSF event  : it is a way to feel less lonely - i'm still epailal in these time - new ideas and trends from the south - I do not ….

@11 Ian(*) I know a big part of the story -

@12 Ole(*) what are the needs for wsf ? we need it more than ever, as current trends are working again people and social movements

@13 Hanah(*) I am new to WSF and here to learn

@14 Daniel (norway) i have been active in Norway Social forum one year - we do a conference every two years (http://openfsm.net/projects/norway-and-wsf ) - I do not know about wsf functions (reflective thinking, democratic debate of ideas, formulation of proposals, free exchange of experiences and interlinking for effective action), im  here to learn and see what is going on

@15 Larissa I participated in WSF 2002 in Porto Alegre and was a student at that time - we learned a lot from Pierre this morning. WSF is where social  movements can get freely and exchange ideas. I had participated in a WTO conference and see ridiculous how civil society was treated there

@16 Fabrizio I am here because Antonio pushed me . I am 20 years in LVC (La via Campesina) and it is my first time in a social forum - how this convergence mentioned by leo  can take place is interesting to see in the  building after this meeting in Florence https://2022firenze.eu/ how new internationalism to struggle together on climate and facisms 

@17 Carine this meeting in Florence is my first forum [it is not  announced as a forum for the organizers who have started european social forum 20 years ago] - tournons la page (https://tournonslapage.org/ ) is 200 CSO am interested in the idea create a platform with a diversity of actors 

@18 Alice ( CRID https://crid.asso.fr/  ) My first experience was in WSF 2022 Mexico last May (https://wsf2022.org/ ) - I want to know more about discussion about this space. It is an important space to bring movements and create links. There is a gap between generations - how to make this space more inclusive and making sense for those who participate, this can be done using more popular education methods.

@19 Anais Emmaus – people from my org https://www.emmaus-international.org/fr/  have participated in WSF ESF, and it remains a myth for me. I organize online international advocacy in emmaus. brîng into taction and give a political voice,  work on alternative through thematic groups and build a political voice. The space is a way to create alliances and go into action. We have too many topics and people,  targeting to get a wide view and object. It can be  a good space to learn from each other. bring new social movements ,we miss them and their new strategies and mobilization methods.

@20 Ole(*) create alliances is a goal that  interests everyone, however  in our daily practice, we do not have enough resources and time, and then  also, we do not have resources to care about the common space. What it is that could make the WSF ease the burden for this participation involvement along two years in between  wsf events, and make it an asset you can use.  What would it take LVC to be more involved?

@21 Ian(*) this discussion is a input in another european dialogue session, with a session possibly scheduled on nov 23 rd, to be confirmed,  http://openfsm.net/projects/wsfic_fsmci/mexico22-input3.9v

@22 Leo when I heard Candida stressing the effort of convergence  in permaculture, yes  that would be an extra benefit.
We had  a very successful wsf 2021 online (https://wsf2021.net/programa-evento/ ) where there was a serious effort to get together peace and environment movements, who got in intense dialogue, and came up with a practical agenda https://join.wsforum.net/assembly-activities/5048   See the declaration  of the assembly as an initiative of action - common agenda https://join.wsforum.net/initiatives/13998 

@23 Lisa https://www.arci.it/ from my long experience it is difficult to make a big convergence, and people converge on ideas but not on organization. I believe in bottom up organizing.

@24 Daniel 2005 LVC took the food sovereignty flag. Everybody needs to eat many things passes through food

@25 Ian(*) -  in the recent discussion in the IC WSF with renovators, it seems we agree to keeping the forum WSF as an open space, and I think we are going to find a consensus about a new type of assembly. We are so different. Finding ground for convergence is completely impossible on so many subjects. We want to feel welcome and for a lot of people it is important.Many people who are old forget how WSF is marginal for new people. We will find a consensus because we do not want to divide. We cannot split an open space !

If we were to make a statement about Peace in Ukraine with many groups, the statement would be empty. In the left we have differences, that is why the big movement for peace has to be self built. We fail because there is no grassroot willingness and that is why we fail.  In the case of  Iraq in 2003  the  it worked.  We have so many social movements. you have all the diversity, impossible to force a  convergence. Let us work together on what we can do

@26 Catherine definitely, we need the wsf space to debate for a new movement, with new generations of youth movement and grassroot emerging movements. We have a lot of things to debate and confront - first debate, then assess the possibility of taking positions. There is a debate at the board of CRID.https://crid.asso.fr/   Let us open the space for new movements to come in, so much energy needed to mobilize,  invite to open the space, and then possibly mature positions to be taken .The priority is to open the space, and outreach, as people are not interested in the internal organization debate among WSF facilitators. Also Discuss on stratégies. 

@27 Jeremy : The situation is very different from 20 years ago; Social forum was magic 20 years ago.  There will be no zapata and you have to …Going to a place where to debate is fine, and we also need to be implementing alternatives. You don’t only speak about food sovereignty, you can also grow your garden. 

@28 Fabien -https://join.wsforum.net/organizations/15549  magic is at the place where we need international solidarity - it is a construction a dynamics it is not a decision - it is again when we are together to build another world.

@29 Pierre(*)https://join.wsforum.net/organizations/876 - ( developed from the verbal input in the meeting ) here are some six points

1/ The forum idea as an open meeting space, is simple : it is a political space, where all interactions are voluntary, it is ideologically positioned by a reference document ( Charter of WSF principles http://openfsm.net/projects/ic-methodology/charter-fsm-wsf-en ) describing the generic values and goals of those coming to participate in it. 

2/ WSF is a place for popular education : listen, meet, dialogue, learn, self organize in contact with others, horizontally and in your own speech . Participating in WSF is a learning process :  how to participate in it as a person and above all as an organization. preparing - dialogue in mutual respect.

3/ Many of us See WSF as Event taking place every two years,  and some of us also see it as what can be implemented as permanent process, with possibility to announce activities for dialogue and initiatives for action any time of the year as is possible with the platform. 

4/ One of theFunction of WSF is also to be a relevant meeting place for “articulations for effective action”. Those articulations for action  are voluntary and explicit, as are the interactions taking place in the wsf space. Important to note that the word “convergence” is not used in the WSF principles. When stepping in the wsf space,  there is no commitment to converge on anything specific. Also the  principles  ensure that  interactions between participants are voluntarily, that no one will speak in the name of participants

@30 Jason(*) - The forum should have the power to convene, and the building process is about design a space more helpful for exchange , and there should not be the organizing of something in the name of the WSF, as it is already very difficult to discuss and organize inside wide networks - As an example, in  Ripess we are present 5 continents , with 5 different situations and the continents don't have the same position 

What was very inspirational in WSF ESF is seeing how these processes have inspired a new generation of politically involved people. WSF and ESF are active political spaces and this is what should be kept. The form can change, can be deepened - supporting the struggles in a role and enabling the locale to have a model  to look at where the different formats of participation  help participants come together, inasmuch they wish and with who they wish. The wsf is a space, and building on that, and being creative on the design, that is role of facilitation. As for Europe we will be  caring about implementing what will come out of this meeting 2022 in florence https://2022firenze.eu/ 

@31 Leo agree with everything what was said - but really to interface at global level, the wsf need to act in an organic way and develop strategies, for lack of this, i think,  LVC has withdrawn from facilitating  the forum as an organization

@32 Fabrizio - our activity in Florence 2022 about seeds in 1 hour from here . See the program
https://2022firenze.eu/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/2022FIRENZE_PROGRAMMA_IT-5.pdf 
14:30 - 17:00 Casa del Popolo San Bartolo a Cintoia (Via San Bartolo a Cintoia 95, Firenze) Lottare per la difesa dei sistemi sementieri contadini EN/IT/FR/ES Coordinamento Europeo Via Campesina ECVC, Associazione Rurale Italiana, Coalizione Italia Libera da OGM