Fantastic write to me privately and we Will exchange contacts mariangela

Marisa Holmes <marisaholmes@...> ha scritto:

>Hey Mariangela!
>
>I arrive on the 25th. We should definitely go to the university together.
>
>Marisa
>OWS
>
>On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 9:42 PM, marita cassan <maciacia50@...>wrote:
>
>> Anybody coming in the eve of 25? I Will arriverà atto 8.30 pm in order TO
>> go together TO University? Mariangela
>>
>> jasper teunissen <jasperteunissen@...> ha scritto:
>>
>> >Dear Chico,
>> >Thanks for your reply and the attachments, will read them more carefully
>> >as soon as possible. I will also leave for Tunis tomorrow and I will
>> >stay after the forum to join the IC meetings (do you know where and when
>> >they take place?), so we definitely can find some time to continue the
>> >discussion. Looking forward!
>> >greetings jasper
>> >
>> >
>> >Op 22-3-2013 19:04, chico whitaker schreef:
>> >> Dear Jasper, only now, some days before the beginning of th 2013 WSF,
>> >> I am having a little bit of time to consider, as I promised, at least
>> >> (as my time is not so elastic...) some of the questions you put in the
>> >> mail you wrote in February. I think it is never too late, as this
>> >> discussions will necessarily continue. As I hope we will have the
>> >> opportunity to talk personally during the Forum, this may facilitate
>> >> our interchanges.
>> >> But let me at first thank your patience to read so many of my texts.
>> >> Some others that you did not read (I wrote so many, during this 12
>> >> years...) could perhaps explain some misunderstandings. But no
>> >> problems, let me do the possible now.
>> >> I will write in italic characters under your questions, as they appear
>> >> in your text below. So:
>> >>
>> >> Le 02/02/2013 18:26, jasper teunissen a écrit :
>> >>>
>> >>> *Re: World Social Forum: space or movement? *
>> >>>
>> >>> *A reply to Chico Whitaker's proposals for the future of the WSF*
>> >>>
>> >>> by Jasper Teunissen
>> >>>
>> >>> 2 February 2013
>> >>>
>> >>> *Introduction*
>> >>>
>> >>> In the process towards the World Social Forum (WSF) in Tunis next
>> >>> month, some efforts have been made to start a discussion about the
>> >>> future of the WSF, but have so far found little resonance, at least
>> >>> certainly not in the public domain.
>> >>>
>> >> /Let me say at first that you misunderstood the aim of my proposals.
>> >> You say: "/a reply to Chico Whitaker's proposal for the future of the
>> >> WSF/". it is not; it is for the future of the IC, only. //Both
>> >> questions are naturally related but they are very different. About the
>> >> future of the WSF I would write much more... I wrote even a book about
>> >> the challenge the WSF faced from its beginning ... T//he discussion we
>> >> began after the IC meeting in Monastir in June (I wrote also something
>> >> specifically about this meeting) was not about the WSF future but
>> >> about the IC future. So, my last four texts were about the IC
>> >> problems. The texts (the mine and from others) had not so much
>> >> resonance in the public domain because they were still to be discussed
>> >> in the //working group created in Monastir "on the IC future". /
>> >>>
>> >>> Among of the contributions are a number of recent proposals by Chico
>> >>> Whitaker, one of the founding figures of the WSF. I think these
>> >>> proposals need attention and further discussion. Another reason to
>> >>> write down some thoughts on Whitaker's texts is the fact that he
>> >>> regularly refers to, speaks to, and even shares his dreams about the
>> >>> so-called new movements of Occupy and Indignados (2011, 2012a, 2012b,
>> >>> 2013b).
>> >>>
>> >> /Many of us are very interested in the so-called new movements
>> >> experiences. And I am very glad to see how many activities they will
>> >> realize in Tunis, overcoming some difficulties that appeared when they
>> >> thought about coming to Tunis. /
>> >>>
>> >>> As a particpant in both a local social forum and Occupy related
>> >>> initiatives, I'm especially interested to see how relations between
>> >>> the two could evolve.
>> >>>
>> >>> And one last note: I don't doubt Whitaker's intentions concerning the
>> >>> future of the WSF, and in fact I agree with many of the underlying
>> >>> thoughts and I warmly support the search for radical improvements in
>> >>> the WSF process.
>> >>>
>> >> /Here I think we need to identify two types of improvements: in the IC
>> >> ans in the WSF process, without merging them./
>> >>>
>> >>> Nevertheless, here I will concentrate on some critical points, trying
>> >>> to get a better understanding of the ideas about movements and open
>> >>> spaces on which Whitaker's proposals are based.
>> >>>
>> >>> *1. The dissolution of the IC and the start of a new movement*
>> >>>
>> >>> The first step in Whitaker's proposal is to dissolve the
>> >>> International Council of the World Social Forum (IC). Looking at the
>> >>> history and context of the current crisis within the IC, I think the
>> >>> formal declaration of the end of the IC is just the final step in the
>> >>> acceptance of an accomplished fact . Whitaker argues the IC has
>> >>> 'already fulfilled the functions it could meet' (Whitaker, 2012c),
>> >>> but I think we should be more direct: the IC has failed to fulfull
>> >>> its role as a permanent body that will give continuity to the WSF.
>> >>>
>> >> /In this point this is absolutely not what I think nor what I intended
>> >> to say. It would be too long to explain it, but you can read //the
>> >> text I wrote after the Monastir meeting, that I referred to above. It
>> >> is a //longer (14 pages...) explanation on how I see the IC history
>> >> and its role in this 12 years (very important for the WSF success,
>> >> specially in at least its first 9 or 10 years). I am annexing it to
>> >> his mail, in case //you have the time to read it./
>> >>>
>> >>> The reality is that the WSF 2013 is going to happen anyway, without a
>> >>> functioning IC.
>> >>>
>> >> /Let me tell you a joke: in Dakar, most (not all...) of the FSM
>> >> participants were able to re-organize the WSF from down, as the Forum
>> >> Organizers had so many unforeseen problems that the first //two days
>> >> of the //Forum were an authentic chaos. At the end of he Forum, some
>> >> of us (IC members) said: this Forum proved that a WSF do not need
>> >> "organizers"... Even we could say to them: don't try to organize (or
>> >> even "facilitate") anything./
>> >>>
>> >>> The second step of the proposal is the establishment of a new
>> >>> movement that takes over the role of the IC as 'facilitator and
>> >>> animator' of the WSF process, assigning to itself the power to decide
>> >>> about the location of the next WSF, 'the only really important
>> >>> decision that the IC takes' (Whitaker, 2012c).
>> >>>
>> >> /This was not a proposition but a matter of fact...//See the text
>> >> annexed/.
>> >>>
>> >>> There is much to say about Whitaker's detailed vision of how such a
>> >>> new movement would work (2013a, b), but here I will just mention a
>> >>> few observations and concerns.
>> >>>
>> >>> First, the establishment of a new movement is clearly a step further
>> >>> than the earlier proposal suggesting a power shift from the
>> >>> Brazil-France tandem to a Canada-Mahreb tandem (Whitaker, 2012a),
>> >>>
>> >> /The power shift I suggested has nothing to do with the creation of a
>> >> new movement, but with the need of new blood in the difficult tasks of
>> >> "facilitating" and stimulating the WSF process. The tandem
>> >> Brazil-France seemed to me, at that occasion, already a little bit
>> >> tired, after so many years... And the Maghreb is showing its force in
>> >> the 2013 WSF facilitation (and the Quebec is proving also it with
>> >> their initiatives towards a pan-Canadian Forum). /
>> >>>
>> >>> but at the same time the creation of a new movement within the
>> >>> context of the WSF has been tried before: 'The Network of the World's
>> >>> Social Movements'. [1] I haven't heard anything about it ever since.
>> >>>
>> >> /I never said or thought about this type of proposal. Perhaps it was
>> >> an idea of the author of the text you cited (Ezequiel Adamovsky?). I
>> >> don't know who could have tried this before. /
>> >>
>> >>> Second, except from methodological adaptations, such as the
>> >>> participation based on individuals instead of organisations, I don't
>> >>> see any fundamental differences with the /intended/setup and goals of
>> >>> the IC, that is: analysing the political situation in the world,
>> >>> facilitating the WSF process and choosing the location of the next
>> >>> WSF. In this sense the proposal is not as radical as Whitaker wants
>> >>> us to believe.
>> >>>
>> >> /About the question of the creation of a new movement, and
>> >> subsequently its eventual role in the definition of the WSF location,
>> >> I did a revision in my firs proposal, after having discussed it with
>> >> many people. And I wrote a last paper (the fourth, //bu//t only in 9
>> >> points in 1 and half page...), separating completely the two
>> >> propositions: a new IC and a new Movement. I am annexing it to this
>> >> mail too. /
>> >>>
>> >>> Third, I see a problem with the order of things. Whitaker proposes a
>> >>> new movement based on a new Manifesto or Charter, initially crewed by
>> >>> the current IC members, and then gradually add 'people that
>> >>> constitute or constituted the Organization Committees of the
>> >>> national, regional, continental or World Social Forums, and even
>> >>> local ones [...]' (2013a para 1.4). After that, local chapters of the
>> >>> new movement can be founded.
>> >>>
>> >>> In many ways this reminds me of a somewhat similar initiave, namely
>> >>> the International Organization for a Participatory Society (IOPS),
>> >>> which, to put it bluntly, first presents a blueprint of a new
>> >>> society, then forms a new organisation from within its own inner
>> >>> circle, and only then seeks further participation and expansion. [2]
>> >>> I think we should not adopt such a top-down approach if we aim for an
>> >>> actively involved, broader and more localized base for a global
>> process.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>> As I understand it, one of Whitaker's most important motivations for
>> >>> his proposal is to find a way to include the latest generation of
>> >>> movements. I agree this is a key question in the evolution of the
>> >>> WSF. But inviting others to something new, to something
>> >>> pre-established that is not theirs yet, is always extremely
>> >>> difficult. I wouldn't expect many new people to join such a new
>> >>> movement, especially if they are not familiar with the WSF, its
>> >>> history and its possible usefulness.
>> >>>
>> >> /Here also you have completely misunderstood me. I never spoke about
>> >> "local chapters", for instance... Movements can be created from above,
>> >> but this is better applied to the creation of institutions, parties,
>> >> NGOs. etc. Real "movements" are created always from down, by a initial
>> >> group of people that become aware of the necessity and possibility of
>> >> action, facing a specific question. If this group is able to convince
>> >> others to join them, the movement grows. From down to up. For many
>> >> reasons it can also stop is growth. But this would be another
>> >> discussion. For our discussion here, I proposed only that the group of
>> >> people that had built a mutual confidence along the IC existence could
>> >> act like an initial group, trying to answer to the need we have in
>> >> fact of a new world movement (different and separately of the WSF,
>> >> that is as process of multiplying open spaces where to meet
>> >> horizontally  and respecting the diversity, and build articulations,
>> >> and even new movements...) . But this point we could discuss more
>> >> deeply personally. Writing in English is not so easy for me. /
>> >>
>> >>> Having said this, I don't have any magic answers on how to overcome
>> >>> these problems, but I would like to share some embryonic ideas and
>> >>> suggestions that popped up while reading Whitaker's discussion texts.
>> >>> But first I will try to give a brief reflection on Whitaker's views
>> >>> on the role of social movements and the WSF as open space.
>> >>>
>> >>> *2. WSF, movement and space*
>> >>>
>> >>> According to Wikipedia the WSF 'tends to meet in January at the same
>> >>> time as its "great capitalist rival", the World Economic Forum's
>> >>> Annual Meeting in Davos, Switzerland. This date is consciously picked
>> >>> to promote their alternative answers to world economic problems in
>> >>> opposition to the World Economic Forum.' [3]
>> >>>
>> >> /The idea was not to be "rival" but to say the we could have a non
>> >> market (Davos) approach to solve the world problems, denying the only
>> >> economic growth of the capitalist system. We wanted to show that their
>> >> "unic thougth" ("pensée unique") was not the answer./
>> >>>
>> >>> For the 2013 edition the tradition of the overlapping date with the
>> >>> WEF in Davos has been abandoned for the first time in the history of
>> >>> the WSF. Although this seems a trivial point, it made me realize how
>> >>> deep the similarities between the WSF and WEF are, where the WSF has
>> >>> been mimicking the WEF as an event for the leaders of, in this case,
>> >>> another world, while Whitaker has made opposite claims (2004b). Let
>> >>> me explain.
>> >>>
>> >> /The idea of doing the WSF at the same days as Davos was a
>> >> communication strategy: we thought we could then oblige the main media
>> >> to speak about the WSF, even with only ten little lines saying that
>> >> there were people thinking on alternatives to the marker economies....
>> >> The tradition was broken not now in Tunis but in Dakar, in 2011. I am
>> >> not sure it was a good decision (of the IC, following the Dakar Forum
>> >> "organizers"). Many say that the WSF is now invisible in the main
>> >> media, and our alternative media do not arrive everywhere... We have
>> >> still to find a new way to broke the barriers of the mass
>> >> communication. //
>> >> //But please, don't say we were "mimicking" the WEF! It seems you
>> >> don't know the WSF methodology! The WSF was not and is not an event of
>> >> "leaders" (in Davos, 2.000 people, in Porto Alegre and Belem even
>> >> 150.000 people...). And the WSF content is decided but its
>> >> participants (through the self-organized activities) and not by its
>> >> "organizers". /
>> >>>
>> >>> In an interview addressing Occupy Wall Street, Whitaker frames the
>> >>> position of social movements as follows: '[W]e are not 99% against
>> >>> 1%. Those who have already the courage to speak up are many, but
>> >>> perhaps more or less 1%, against the 1% who controls and exploits the
>> >>> rest of the world.' (2012b) So, we have a powerful elite (symbolized
>> >>> by the WEF) on the one hand, a small group who resists on the extreme
>> >>> opposite site (symbolized by the WSF) and in the middle there is the
>> >>> 98%. Whitaker continues: '[W]e need to change our strategy. We need
>> >>> to turn ourselves to the 98%' (2012a)
>> >>>
>> >>> I think this vision becomes problematic exactly where it puts the
>> >>> social movements outside of the 98%, as those who already see, those
>> >>> who already know. It's a simplicfication of reality in which the 98%
>> >>> has two options: this 1% or that 1%, us or them. I think this is an
>> >>> elitist, exclusive, vanguardist, moralistic and alienating picture
>> >>> and it ignores the reality that a vast majority of the world
>> >>> population is engaged in a day to day struggle for a life in peace
>> >>> and dignity, a struggle that takes many forms, and some of them may
>> >>> be less visible than others. I just don't think we can 'network' all
>> >>> these struggles by placing ourselves outside or above them.
>> >>>
>> >> /Again a misunderstanding. And a big misunderstanding. Please...
>> >> About this point I invite you to come to an activity I am
>> >> participating in Tunis ("And the 98%?"), the 28th, 3d slot (16h00 to
>> >> 18h30), in the room G101. If you have time, you can visit the blog
>> >> that was created to prepare this workshop (www.98percent.net). You
>> >> will see that one of our discussions will be about the idea of
>> >> "Volontary servitude" of the French philosopher La Boetie (text
>> >> written in 1500...) re-analysed by people from today, in our present
>> >> societies. It will be certainly very interesting. /
>> >>
>> >> /I would like to go further, because many things you say in the
>> >> continuation of your text make possible other reflections. Open space,
>> >> Charter of Principles, things learned in the school about geography,
>> >> etc. As a good intellectual, Jasper, you entered slowly but
>> >> enthusiastically in a concepts discussion that could transform our
>> >> exchange in a warm polemic with one trying to smash the other... //I
>> >> would still only say  that in the beginning of my first paper on the
>> >> IC future //I said //that we had to overcome the space
>> >> //_or_//movement //logics //to go to the space //_and_//movement
>> >> logics. Nothing to do with "wraping " the WSF with a new movement.../
>> >> /But I cannot continue. //I//t would be too long to explain all the
>> >> differences in what you say I am saying and what I tried to say...
>> >> //My last paper sent now could perhaps explain many things. //My time
>> >> is over. Tomorrow I am flying to Tunis and I have still many practical
>> >> things to do.
>> >> //Till Tunis, Jasper. Let us continue. Chico Whitaker /
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm not only having trouble with this narrow definition of movements,
>> >>> I also would like to discuss the meaning of open space. Much has been
>> >>> written about the WSF as an open space for movements. Here I will
>> >>> limit myself by just looking at some of the Whitaker's (maybe
>> >>> outdated, I don't know) hypotheses on the WSF as open space:
>> >>>
>> >>> 'A space has /no leaders/. It is only a place, basically a horizontal
>> >>> space, just like the earth's surface, even if it has some ups and
>> >>> downs, It is like a /square without an owner/. If the square has an
>> >>> owner other than the collectivity, it fails to be a square, and
>> >>> becomes private territory. Squares are generally open spaces that can
>> >>> be visited by all those who find any kind of interest in using it.
>> >>> Their purpose is solely being a square, whatever service they render
>> >>> to its users. The longer they last as squares the better it is for
>> >>> those who use them for what they offer for the realisation of their
>> >>> respective objectives.'
>> >>>
>> >>> (Whitaker, 2004a, p.113, /author's emphasis/)
>> >>>
>> >>> This vision contradicts with almost everything I was taught in human
>> >>> geography courses at university. But here I won't go into the
>> >>> historical and theoretical analysis of the relations between people
>> >>> and space, it's enough to have a look at the recent experiences of
>> >>> Tahrir, Sol, Zucotti and hundreds of other squares around the world.
>> >>> Here we have learned that the creation of a safe and open space,
>> >>> trying to realize a glimpse of another world, often right at a
>> >>> central point in the 'normality' of the dominant logic, is not that
>> >>> easy. We have learned that open spaces are always a product of a
>> >>> complex interaction between many different interests, intentions and
>> >>> expectations, both within the occupied squares and in relation to the
>> >>> rest of the world. Therefore, we can not just simply declare a space
>> >>> open and horizontal, and expect it to behave according to a certain
>> >>> set of principles forever. Instead, in the struggle for open spaces
>> >>> we always have to take into account questions of power, ownership and
>> >>> directions.
>> >>>
>> >>> In the debate between those who have seen the WSF as movement, and
>> >>> those who have seen it as a space, Whitaker always sided with the
>> >>> latter: 'For me, there is no doubt that it is fundamental to ensure
>> >>> at all costs the continuity of the Forum as a space and to not yield
>> >>> to the temptation of transforming it now or even later, into a
>> >>> movement.' (Whitaker 2004a)
>> >>>
>> >>> Now, nearly a decade later, Whitaker proposes to wrap the WSF space
>> >>> up in a new movement, saying that 'we should have the WSF _as_ space
>> >>> and a new movement (the APW -- Another Possible World) _as_ movement,
>> >>> in parallel, without mixing both. We should nevertheless link them
>> >>> [...]' (Whitaker 2013c para 1).
>> >>>
>> >>> If we want to come to a widely shared vision of the future of the
>> >>> WSF, can we base it on abstract and theoretical interpretations of
>> >>> spaces and movements? Can we draw strict lines between spaces and
>> >>> movements, and at the same time try to link them? Or can we develop
>> >>> new forms of global movement meetings based on practical experiences
>> >>> from the social forums, the occupied squares, and elsewere?
>> >>>
>> >>> *3. Some suggestions*
>> >>>
>> >>> /On charters and principles/
>> >>>
>> >>> While Whitaker repeatedly states that 'it's not a question of
>> >>> modifying the WSF Charter of Principles' (2012a, 2013a para 1.1), I
>> >>> think the Charter of Principles and its meaning within the WSF
>> >>> process should be rediscussed at some point. Without concluding that
>> >>> the text is not relevant or valuable anymore, I see many reasons to
>> >>> have another look at it, not only because of its limitations (and
>> >>> violations), but most importantly because I think anything should be
>> >>> open to discussion, always.
>> >>>
>> >>> /A next WSF in cyberspace?/
>> >>>
>> >>> If the location of the next WSF is such a delicate matter, why not
>> >>> have an edition of the WSF in cyberspace, as an experiment? I see
>> >>> many opportunities here. First, it could improve the online
>> >>> infrastructure of the WSF and many participating social movements.
>> >>> Second, this could trigger the organisation of interconnected local
>> >>> events around the world, building a base for the future of the WSF
>> >>> process. Third, it could attract new types of participants,
>> >>> especially the ones that are not already engaged in any existing
>> >>> organisation or movement (the 98 percenters?). Fourth, it
>> >>> automatically gives new generations and new movements a position at
>> >>> the forefront, since they were born in a landscape shaped by online
>> >>> social networking. Fifth, it doesn't have the enormous environmental
>> >>> costs and it doesn't need a concentration of financial resources.
>> >>> Well, there are more arguments for (and against) a WSF in cyberspace,
>> >>> but it's just another option that can be considered.
>> >>>
>> >>> /Opening up the spaces for debate/
>> >>>
>> >>> I think, when talking about the future of the WSF and the futures of
>> >>> social movements, we need to communicate and discuss our various
>> >>> needs and expectations regarding meetings on the global scale. Only
>> >>> then we are able to build a collective and practical framework to
>> >>> organize such meetings. The WSF in Tunis offers us another moment to
>> >>> do this and we have to make sure that these debates are not kept
>> >>> inside the exclusive spaces of IC mailinglists and IC meetings.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> *Notes*
>> >>>
>> >>> [1] See: Ezequiel Adamovsky, 2003, 'The World Social Forum's New
>> >>> Project: The Network of the World's Social Movements'
>> >>> http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/wsf/newproject.htm
>> >>>
>> >>> [2] See: http://www.iopsociety.org/
>> >>>
>> >>> [3] See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Social_Forum
>> >>>
>> >>> *References*
>> >>>
>> >>> Chico Whitaker, 2004a, 'The WSF as Open Space', in: Sen, J., A.
>> >>> Anand, A. Escobar, P. Waterman (eds.), /World Social Forum:
>> >>> Callenging Empires/, New Delhi, Viveka Foundation, p.111-121,
>> >>> http://www.choike.org/documentos/wsf_s302_whitaker.pdf
>> >>>
>> >>> Chico Whitaker, March 2004b, 'World Social Forum -- A Process in
>> >>> Construction',
>> >>> http://www.pekea-fr.org/PubliSurNLetter/Whitaker-En-NL13.pdf
>> >>>
>> >>> Chico Whitaker, November 2011, 'Inverted tale -- from the end to the
>> >>> beginning (imagine is possible)',
>> http://www.e-joussour.net/en/node/12054
>> >>>
>> >>> Chico Whitaker, January 2012a, 'New Perspectives in the WSF Process',
>> >>> _http://www.ciranda.net/article6100.html_
>> >>>
>> >>> Chico Whitaker, February 2012b, 'A View From Brazil: World Social
>> >>> Forum Co-founder Chico Whitaker Offers an International Perspective
>> >>> on the Occupy Wall Street Movement',
>> >>> _http://www.ussocialforum.net/node/373_
>> >>>
>> >>> Chico Whitaker, December 2012c, 'World Social Forum: space or
>> >>> movement? Thinking about the WSF International Council future in new
>> >>> perspectives', December 2012,
>> >>> http://chicowhitaker.net/artigo_eng.php?artigo=44
>> >>>
>> >>> Chico Whitaker, January 2013a 'Additional notes to the text proposing
>> >>> the dissolution of the WSF IC',
>> >>> http://chicowhitaker.net/artigo_eng.php?artigo=45
>> >>>
>> >>> Chico Whitaker, January 2013b, 'More notes about my proposal on the
>> >>> WSF IC ', January 2013
>> http://chicowhitaker.net/artigo_eng.php?artigo=66
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
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