(tradução automática em português abaixo)

Roberto and all,

I appreciate very much the need to speak strongly towards the IC on this
issue. This is a very common problem in open organizing that does not
account for those that do loads of actual work. As a technologist I
often find this to be very parallel to classism as we do our work with
our hands, so to speak. Whatever the dynamic is called, it is echoing
throughout the progressive movements at the moment. It is important to
be able to articulate this to ourselves and to those with whom we do
political work.

One comment that I would make as a newcomer is related to my position as
such. It is time that after 10 years we begin to understand what was
created in Porto Alegre was a movement and that it now has a history,
but that it is a dynamic, changing thing. You all have been weaving this
story and addressing this question of history, context, etc. in order to
bring in newcomers. But we must not keep using the energy required to
sublimate newcomers into our process as a scapegoat for progress within
our group. For a sustainable movement, it is of course assumed that we
must always be welcoming newcomers. And your point was well taken, that
the Com Com, more than any other IC group, has done this best. So let us
be an example to the IC on this issue and refrain from citing our humble
newcomers as blockages to progress.

Thank you and I support all that has been written by Rita and Roberto in
defense of the ComCom as a truly collaborative and incubating commission.

-Mallory

****************
Roberto e todos,

Eu aprecio muito a necessidade de falar fortemente para o IC sobre esta
questão. Este é um problema muito comum em aberto organização que não
conta para aqueles que fazem as cargas de trabalho efectivo. Como um
tecnólogo muitas vezes eu achar que isso seja muito paralelo ao
classismo como fazemos nosso trabalho com as mãos, por assim dizer. Seja
qual for a dinâmica é chamado, ele está ecoando em todo o movimento
progressista no momento. É importante ser capaz de articular isso para
nós mesmos e para aqueles com quem fazemos trabalho político.

Um comentário que gostaria de fazer como um novato está relacionada com
a minha posição como tal. É tempo de que, após 10 anos começamos a
entender o que foi criado em Porto Alegre foi um movimento e que agora
tem uma história, mas que é uma coisa dinâmica e mutável. Vocês todos
foram tecendo esta história e tratar essa questão da história, contexto,
etc, a fim de trazer os recém-chegados. Mas não devemos continuar a usar
a energia necessária para sublimar os recém-chegados em nosso processo
como um bode expiatório para o progresso no nosso grupo. Para um
movimento sustentável, é claro do princípio de que devemos ser sempre
acolhedor recém-chegados. E seu ponto foi bem aceite, que a Comunidade
Com, mais do que qualquer outro grupo IC, fez o melhor presente. Por
isso, vamos ser um exemplo para o IC sobre esta questão e abster-se de
citar a nossa humilde recém-chegados como bloqueios ao progresso.

Obrigado e eu apoio tudo o que foi escrito por Rita e Roberto em defesa
da ComCom como uma comissão verdadeiramente colaborativo e incubação.

-Mallory

Roberto Savio wrote:
> Giuseppe,
> when I started to write, I was following your line of thought. Then,
> somebody in ILO who has nothing to with the IC, called me to ask
> explanations about the issue of the commission. Apparently some trade
> union send that to ILO.
> Now, it is all a question of personal perspective. If this affair
> would have been kept inside, and not put on the minutes of Montreal,
> which are bound to circulate widely, I would have not taken what you
> call a " potentially confrontational" approach, and used exactly our
> line of reasoning. But, my dear, I have been taking care of my face
> for a long time, and I have only that  face. And there are lot of
> people in the transnational system who would be very happy to smear it...
> Therefore, I want my views standing if necessary as personal, if you
> feel that we should avoid polemics, and quietly accept formally what
> went out.
> The real problem, Giuseppe, is that there is no idea  interest and
> understanding  in the IC about communication. For five years it looked
> like some quirk interest of mine. The meeting of the commission were
> never attended by more than five people. Sometimes you should read all
> the plans of communications that I did present to the IC...
> Now there is a net team of people, and I am very happy. But do you
> think that the IC understand the issue of communication? There is any
> progress from the first Porto Alegre? Do the organizations in IC take
> any activity in the field of information and communication? I leave
> the answer to you....
> roberto
>
>
>
>
>
> At 19.09 02/12/2009, you wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> i won't be able to participate to the meeting from india (time
>> difference ad all) but i wish you a fruitful meeting.
>>
>> On the letter i fully respect the thoughts expressed by roberto and,
>> needless to say, he should feel free to send his personal response to
>> the LG.
>>
>> I however find his letter potentially confrontational, and although i
>> also consider the letter sent by the LG to be provocative, it is
>> nonetheless an opportunity to raise all the issues that have been put
>> on the table time and again without finding the appropriate space for
>> engagement/discussion.
>>
>> I observed a profound anxiety In the letter by the LG which perhaps
>> could have been somewhat more sensitive to the complexities of the
>> comcom. However, i also feel that we could deal with all the
>> allegations/confusion/requests for clarification in such a way that
>> this crisis could become an opportunity for collective
>> self-reflection. Considering that some new members have joined the
>> communication commission recently, the nature of its work might have
>> developed differently from what the LG thought the previous features
>> of the work of the comcom were.
>>
>> i fully understand that the suspension of the comcom is an
>> unprecedented step that may frustrate and even upset those members
>> that for years have felt that they have worked with very little
>> support or even understanding of the IC. However, while the role of
>> the commission is crucial, it is also necessary not to be dragged
>> into the same axiety that seems to have affected the LG.
>>
>> I will do all i can to follow this process closely and i wish you
>> once more a fruitful meeting later tonight
>>
>> ciao
>> Giuseppe
>>
>> 2009/12/2 dan baron <danbaronmst@...
>> <mailto:danbaronmst@...> >
>>
>>     Hi all
>>     Â
>>     I will not be able to participate (from Toronto) in today's
>>     meeting, but I agree that a clear response shuld be given to the
>>     IC report.
>>     Â
>>     All the best
>>     DanÂ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Â 
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:44:04 +0100
>>     To: communication-commission-discussion@...
>>     <mailto:communication-commission-discussion@...>
>>     From: utopie@... <mailto:utopie@...>
>>     Subject: Re: [Communication commission discussion] Re:
>>     [Wsfic-communication] EN/PT: Letter of the LG to the ComCom /
>>     Carta do GE para a ComCom
>>
>>
>>
>>     Dear all,
>>     if there is no agreement over my letter, please annex it to
>>     whatever you want to write. But I want my opinion to stand
>>     anyhow...roberto
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     At 16.41 02/12/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>         [EN only, disculpe!]
>>
>>         Dear all,
>>
>>         More than a week has passed since this message (see below)
>>         from the 
>>         Liason Group was sent to our list and we have not discussed or 
>>         answered it yet.
>>
>>         Before or as we do, there is an urgent matter to deal with,
>>         which has 
>>         come out from the report of the IC meeting in Montreal, in
>>         particular 
>>         from the report of the LG meeting which has a part on the
>>         "evaluation"Â 
>>         of the communication commission.  If you haven't already,
>>         you may read 
>>         the text in the document attached (or get the whole report
>>         from the 
>>         home page of the WSF website - here is the direct link:
>>         http://www.forumsocialmundial.org.br/noticias_01.php?cd_news=2642&cd_language=1
>>         <??> ).
>>
>>         Any of you who participated to the meeting in Montreal or
>>         have been 
>>         actively engaged with the Commission's work know that whatever 
>>         problems we may have (which we have been discussing openly 
>>         throughout), they are not what is described in that report,
>>         which was 
>>         done with no prior consultation or request of clarifications.
>>
>>         Therefore I think we need to react strongly.  It is not a
>>         matter of 
>>         not accepting criticism, on rhe contrary.  Roberto Savio has
>>         written a 
>>         text in response which I subscribe completely and I think we
>>         should 
>>         discuss it and send it as soon as possible to the IC.  The
>>         idea is to 
>>         send it as a collective response. What is your opinion?
>>
>>         I really hope that this does not distract us from our work (I
>>         will 
>>         briefly send another mail about detailing the communication
>>         plan, 
>>         activities, timing and resources), but we certainly cannot
>>         ignore it.
>>
>>         Please take the time to read carefully and to comment in this
>>         list.
>>
>>         Thanks and ciao,
>>         Jason
>>
>>
>>         2009/11/23 WSFIC_FSMCI < fsmci@...
>>         <mailto:fsmci@...>>
>>         (Versão em Português mais abaixo)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         EN: *Letter of the Liaison Group to the IC Communication
>>         Commission*
>>
>>
>>         Dear friends of the IC Communication Commission,
>>
>>
>>         As you all know, the IC Liaison Group has met after the
>>         Montreal ICÂ 
>>         Meeting in order to identify what it should do after the
>>         decisions 
>>         taken it, so it can fulfill its role as facilitator of the
>>         relations 
>>         between the Commissions and the IC, to fully develop the WSF
>>         process 
>>         in a integrated, transparent and shared way among all the
>>         people who 
>>         voluntarily and determined build the dream of another world
>>         possible.
>>
>>         Going through the reports of the different Commissions during
>>         the last 
>>         session, we  saw that  there are issues that  were raised
>>         in the 
>>         Communication Commission which need discussion.
>>
>>         As we all know, the Liaison Group can not and should not
>>         decide on how 
>>         each Commission work, as they are autonomous and responsible
>>         for what 
>>         they do. But it can and it should help them resolve and
>>         overcome any 
>>         issues they might face. As, for example, it was already done
>>         in 
>>         Montreal, to resolve the difficulties around the making of
>>         the WSFÂ 
>>         Newsletter, under responsibility of the Liaison Group Support
>>         Office, 
>>         currently located in Sao Paulo. The Liaison Group will keep on 
>>         following the developments of this task, as decided in Montreal.
>>
>>         In this perspective, we want to propose a Meeting of the
>>         Liaison Group 
>>         with the members of this Commission. The first occasion for
>>         such a 
>>         Meeting seems to be the Social Forum to be held in Porto
>>         Alegre at the 
>>         end of January 2010. As, however, not all the members of this 
>>         Commission nor all the members of the Liaison Group are going
>>         to 
>>         attend this event, we could, before it, have one or more
>>         chats on the 
>>         web with all the members of both the Communication Commission
>>         and the 
>>         Liaison Group as soon as possible.
>>
>>         We are aware that this Commission is currently under an
>>         intense 
>>         process of exchanging information and propositions, which it
>>         something 
>>         truly positive. It is in order to make sure that this
>>         important work 
>>         of the WSF process, is kept going, that we consider it
>>         important to 
>>         deepen the relations between the Liaison Group and the
>>         Communication 
>>         Commission.
>>
>>         WSF International Council Liaison Group.
>>
>>
>>
>>         --------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>         PT: *Carta do Grupo de Enlace para a Comissão de
>>         Comunicação do CI*
>>
>>
>>
>>         Companheiras e companheiros da Comissão de
>>         Comunicação do CI,
>>
>>         Como vocês sabem, o Grupo de Enlace (GE) do CI, reuniu-se
>>         depois da 
>>         Reunião do CI em Montreal para identificar o que lhe
>>         caberia fazer a 
>>         partir das decisões então tomadas, para bem cumprir o
>>         seu papel de 
>>         facilitador das relações entre as Comissões e destas
>>         com todo o CI, 
>>         para que o processo do FSM possa se desenvolver de forma
>>         integrada, 
>>         transparente e compartilhada entre todas as pessoas que
>>         constroem de 
>>         forma voluntária e determinada o sonho de um outro mundo
>>         possível.
>>
>>
>>         Revisando então os informes das diferentes Comissões na
>>         última 
>>         plenária, nós percebemos que havia questões
>>         levantadas na Comissão 
>>         de Comunicação que precisavam ser discutidas.
>>
>>         Como todos sabemos, o Grupo de Enlace não pode e não
>>         deve interferir 
>>         no funcionamento das Comissões, que são autônomas e
>>         responsáveis 
>>         pelo que fazem. Mas pode e deve ajudá-las na
>>         superação dos problemas 
>>         que venham a enfrentar. Como, aliás, já foi feito ainda
>>         em Montreal, 
>>         para resolver dificuldades que estavam se criando em torno da 
>>         produção do Boletim do FSM, de responsabilidade do
>>         Escritório de 
>>         Apoio do Grupo de Enlace, sediado atualmente em São Paulo.
>>         O Grupo de 
>>         Enlace continuará acompanhando o desenvolvimento desta
>>         tarefa a partir 
>>         do que ficou combinado em Montreal
>>
>>
>>         Dentro dessa perspectiva, queremos propor uma reunião do
>>         Grupo de 
>>         Enlace com os membros da Comissão. A primeira ocasião
>>         para isso 
>>         parece ser o Fórum Social que se realizará em Porto
>>         Alegre no final 
>>         de Janeiro de 2010. Como, no entanto, nem todos os membros da
>>         Comissão 
>>         e do próprio Grupo de Enlace estarão presentes nesse
>>         evento, 
>>         poderíamos, antes dele, ter um ou mais “chatsââ‚€
>>         pela Internet com 
>>         todos os membros da Comissão e do GE, logo que for
>>         possível.
>>
>>
>>
>>         Temos conhecimento de que a Comissão está atualmente em
>>         um intenso 
>>         processo de troca de informações e propostas, o que
>>         só pode ser 
>>         visto como muito positivo. É com o intuito de fazer com que
>>         eesse 
>>         trabalho importante do processo FSM continue seguindo que
>>         consideramos 
>>         extremamente importante esse aprofundamento das
>>         relações do Grupo de 
>>         Enlace com a Comissão de Comunicação.
>>
>>
>>         Grupo de Enlace do Conselho Internacional do FSM.
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Wsfic-communication mailing list
>>         Wsfic-communication@...
>>         <mailto:Wsfic-communication@...>
>>         http://listas.rits.org.br/mailman/listinfo/wsfic-communication
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         --
>>         Archive:
>>         http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2009/12/1259768384058
>>         <??>
>>         To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>         communication-commission-discussion@...
>>         <mailto:communication-commission-discussion@...>. 
>>         Please contact
>>         communication-commission-discussion-manager@...
>>         <mailto:communication-commission-discussion-manager@...>
>>         for questions.
>>
>>
>>         [EN only, disculpe!]
>>
>>         Dear all,
>>
>>         More than a week has passed since this message (see below)
>>         from the Liason Group was sent to our list and we have not
>>         discussed or answered it yet.
>>
>>         Before or as we do, there is an urgent matter to deal with,
>>         which has come out from the report of the IC meeting in
>>         Montreal, in particular from the report of the LG meeting
>>         which has a part on the "evaluation" of the communication
>>         commission.  If you haven't already, you may read the text
>>         in the document attached (or get the whole report from the
>>         home page of the WSF website - here is the direct link:
>>         http://www.forumsocialmundial.org.br/noticias_01.php?cd_news=2642&cd_language=1
>>         <??> ).
>>
>>         Any of you who participated to the meeting in Montreal or
>>         have been actively engaged with the Commission's work know
>>         that whatever problems we may have (which we have been
>>         discussing openly throughout), they are not what is described
>>         in that report, which was done with no prior consultation or
>>         request of clarifications. 
>>
>>         Therefore I think we need to react strongly.  It is not a
>>         matter of not accepting criticism, on rhe contrary.  Roberto
>>         Savio has written a text in response which I subscribe
>>         completely and I think we should discuss it and send it as
>>         soon as possible to the IC.  The idea is to send it as a
>>         collective response. What is your opinion? 
>>
>>         I really hope that this does not distract us from our work (I
>>         will briefly send another mail about detailing the
>>         communication plan, activities, timing and resources), but we
>>         certainly cannot ignore it.
>>
>>         Please take the time to read carefully and to comment in this
>>         list.
>>
>>         Thanks and ciao,
>>         Jason
>>
>>
>>         2009/11/23 WSFIC_FSMCI < fsmci@... <??>>
>>
>>             (Versão em Português mais abaixo)
>>
>>             EN: *Letter of the Liaison Group to the IC Communication
>>             Commission*
>>             Dear friends of the IC Communication Commission,
>>
>>             As you all know, the IC Liaison Group has met after the
>>             Montreal IC Meeting in order to identify what it should
>>             do after the decisions taken it, so it can fulfill its
>>             role as facilitator of the relations between the
>>             Commissions and the IC, to fully develop the WSF process
>>             in a integrated, transparent and shared way among all the
>>             people who voluntarily and determined build the dream of
>>             another world possible.
>>             Going through the reports of the different Commissions
>>             during the last session, we  saw that  there are issues
>>             that  were raised in the Communication Commission which
>>             need discussion.
>>             As we all know, the Liaison Group can not and should not
>>             decide on how each Commission work, as they are
>>             autonomous and responsible for what they do. But it can
>>             and it should help them resolve and overcome any issues
>>             they might face. As, for example, it was already done in
>>             Montreal, to resolve the difficulties around the making
>>             of the WSF Newsletter, under responsibility of the
>>             Liaison Group Support Office, currently located in Sao
>>             Paulo. The Liaison Group will keep on following the
>>             developments of this task, as decided in Montreal.
>>             In this perspective, we want to propose a Meeting of the
>>             Liaison Group with the members of this Commission. The
>>             first occasion for such a Meeting seems to be the Social
>>             Forum to be held in Porto Alegre at the end of January
>>             2010. As, however, not all the members of this Commission
>>             nor all the members of the Liaison Group are going to
>>             attend this event, we could, before it, have one or more
>>             chats on the web with all the members of both the
>>             Communication Commission and the Liaison Group as soon as
>>             possible.
>>
>>             We are aware that this Commission is currently under an
>>             intense process of exchanging information and
>>             propositions, which it something truly positive. It is in
>>             order to make sure that this important work of the WSF
>>             process, is kept going, that we consider it important to
>>             deepen the relations between the Liaison Group and the
>>             Communication Commission.
>>             WSF International Council Liaison Group.
>>
>>             --------------------
>>
>>             PT: *Carta do Grupo de Enlace para a Comissão de
>>             Comunicação do CI*
>>             Â
>>             Companheiras e companheiros da Comissão de
>>             Comunicação do CI,
>>             Como vocês sabem, o Grupo de Enlace (GE) do CI,
>>             reuniu-se depois da Reunião do CI em Montreal para
>>             identificar o que lhe caberia fazer a partir das
>>             decisões então tomadas, para bem cumprir o seu
>>             papel de facilitador das relações entre as
>>             Comissões e destas com todo o CI, para que o processo
>>             do FSM possa se desenvolver de forma integrada,
>>             transparente e compartilhada entre todas as pessoas que
>>             constroem de forma voluntária e determinada o sonho de
>>             um outro mundo possível.
>>
>>             Revisando então os informes das diferentes
>>             Comissões na última plenária, nós percebemos
>>             que havia questões levantadas na Comissão de
>>             Comunicação que precisavam ser discutidas.
>>
>>             Como todos sabemos, o Grupo de Enlace não pode e
>>             não deve interferir no funcionamento das Comissões,
>>             que são autônomas e responsáveis pelo que fazem.
>>             Mas pode e deve ajudá-las na superação dos
>>             problemas que venham a enfrentar. Como, aliás, já
>>             foi feito ainda em Montreal, para resolver dificuldades
>>             que estavam se criando em torno da produção do
>>             Boletim do FSM, de responsabilidade do Escritório de
>>             Apoio do Grupo de Enlace, sediado atualmente em São
>>             Paulo. O Grupo de Enlace continuará acompanhando o
>>             desenvolvimento desta tarefa a partir do que ficou
>>             combinado em Montreal
>>             Dentro dessa perspectiva, queremos propor uma reunião
>>             do Grupo de Enlace com os membros da Comissão. A
>>             primeira ocasião para isso parece ser o Fórum
>>             Social que se realizará em Porto Alegre no final de
>>             Janeiro de 2010. Como, no entanto, nem todos os membros
>>             da Comissão e do próprio Grupo de Enlace estarão
>>             presentes nesse evento, poderíamos, antes dele, ter um
>>             ou mais “chats†pel pela Internet com todos os
>>             membros da Comissão e do GE, logo que for possível.
>>             Â
>>             Temos conhecimento de que a Comissão está
>>             atualmente em um intenso processo de troca de
>>             informações e propostas, o que só pode ser visto
>>             como muito positivo. É com o intuito de fazer com que
>>             esse trabalho importante do proocesso FSM continue
>>             seguindo que consideramos extremamente importante esse
>>             aprofundamento das relações do Grupo de Enlace com
>>             a Comissão de Comunicação.
>>             Grupo de Enlace do Conselho Internacional do FSM.
>>
>>             _______________________________________________ 
>>             Wsfic-communication mailing list 
>>             Wsfic-communication@... <??> 
>>             http://listas.rits.org.br/mailman/listinfo/wsfic-communication
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         --
>>         Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1259768384058 <??>
>>         To unsubsccribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>         communication-commission-discussion@... <??>.
>>         Please contact
>>         communication-commission-discussion-manager@...
>>         <??> for questions.
>>
>>
>>
>>     --
>>     Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1259768569412 <??>
>>     To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>     communication-commission-discussion@... <??>.
>>     Please contact
>>     communication-commission-discussion-manager@...
>>     <??> for questions.
>>
>>
>>     --
>>     Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1259769528601
>>     <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2009/12/1259769528601>
>>
>>     To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>     communication-commission-discussion@...
>>     <mailto:communication-commission-discussion@...>.
>>     Please contact
>>     communication-commission-discussion-manager@...
>>     <mailto:communication-commission-discussion-manager@...>
>>     for questions.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1259777264388
>> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2009/12/1259777264388>
>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>> communication-commission-discussion@...
>> <mailto:communication-commission-discussion@...>.
>> Please contact
>> communication-commission-discussion-manager@...
>> <mailto:communication-commission-discussion-manager@...>
>> for questions.
>
>
> --
> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1259839030949
> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2009/12/1259839030949>
> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
> communication-commission-discussion@...
> <mailto:communication-commission-discussion@...>. Please
> contact communication-commission-discussion-manager@...
> <mailto:communication-commission-discussion-manager@...>
> for questions.