I totally agree, Rita. A few days ago, a Palestinian leader of Via Campesina - members of the IC -  had his picture on Facebook, holding up the LVC & Palestinian flag. He is not a member of Hamas. The next day his home was destroyed by a bomb that killed his mother and 9 other relatives, including children... And as you so rightly point out, 50% of the population of Gaza are children...

This is genocide of the worst order, and we must stand up and condemn it collectively.

In solidarity

Judith

---- Envoyé avec BlackBerry® d'Orange ----

-----Original Message-----
From: Rita Freire <ritafreir@...>
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 15:36:42 
To: communication-commission-discussion<communication-commission-discussion@...>
Reply-To: communication-commission-discussion@...
Cc: Bo Nylund<bo.nylund@...>; Carmen Magallon<cmagallon@...>; KG Hammar<kg.hammar@...>
Subject:  Re: [Communication commission discussion]

Ok Azril, I have just one point: the atrocities against Gaza. It has to be
sttoped! It is about Israel and occupation. And it's about resistence. If
you or me where there, we'd be targed as terrorists too. Because we are
against the occuptation.  I don't judge nobody in Palestine under the
genocidal attacks
The another thing is that Israel stands up against the unification of the
Palestinian forces into the institucionality, into  elections, into the
govern, into an aliance to govern Palestine, Hamas included.  Not Azril,
they don't use children as human shields. Gaza has no more than 365 km2 and
more than 1,5 million inhabitants, a huge population density, more than half
of them children. They are not human shields. They are human beings living
there, waiting for a call: you'll  be dead in 4 minutes. It has no
comparison with anything. The WSF should stands up. If not,  why the WSF
space?
Rita


On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:

> Rita,
> Your wrote: in reply to my note, that
>
> I (you) strongly protest against any attempt to blame the Palestinian
> people and their resistance by what is happening in Gaza. Israel is
> promoting an inconceivable and inexplicable carnage. Is offering
> this macabre spectacle to the world and undermining confidence in
> humanity itself.. In saying that
>
> 1) Where in my words dis I blame the Palestinian people and their
> resistance (by what is happening in Gaza)?
> 2) I made and make a clear distinction between 'The Palestinian People and
> their resistance - and Hamas!
> 3) I want to stop the killing of innocent children and civilians as much
> as you or anybody else with human sense and empathy in this world.
> 4) You put all the blame of Israel and I do not. I blame the israeli
> government and also put blame on Hamas and its supporters. Even Ho Chi Minh
> could distinguish between the American People and its government!
> 5) I agree with you in that this kind of ongoing violence and spiral of
> brutalization, "eye by eye" approach undermines our confidence in our
> species!
> 6) We are both very upset with this kind of senseless killings - and we
> both want it to stop, right?
> 7) The only way, I am painfully able to envision to "solve" this bloody
> conflict between relatives is by creating the conditions for a just peace
> to all concerned, which is made more difficult by the balkanization of the
> area, by the political actors behind the scene: the US and western powers
> on the one hand and other regional powers, like Irán, Saudi Arabia, Egypt,
> Turkey, Qatar and you name it. Not to forget that russian and chinese arms
> are as lethal as western arms.
> 8) I see captive populations by their respective governments, afraid and
> angry and accepted to be led like sheep to do the killing and the dying.
> 9) This is why I chose the path of non-violence, since I believe that
> violence and hatred generate more violence and hatred in a spiral that the
> people trapped in the situation are unable to stop.
> 10) There are surely people of good sense in Palestine and Israel that
> understand this vision, whose voices will be heard some day. Too late to
> save the lives of these precious children and civilians, that I do see
> being "pawns in the game" of people behind and under the barricades.
> No, Rita. I would ask first both the Israeli Government and Hamas leaders
> to stop the violence first, both of them.
> 11) Then, maybe, what is left of the so-called international community
> might be able to create conditions for a lasting truce and an to put an end
> to this tragic conflict, which afflicts us so much even at the distance.
> 12) Unfortunately, we know how obsolete the UN has shown to solve cases
> likes this, thinking of Rwanda, Darfour, the Balkans and you name it.
> I want to criminalize war, the production and sale of weapons.
> I want to see palestinian and israeli children holding hands, laughing and
> playing like children do in Brazil and Sweden.
> We are not under fire in Gaza, Rita. That makes us more responsible for
> looking beyond the pain and short-term scapegoating. Otherwise, we
> contribute to more violence and hatred than already exists.
> Best
> Azril
> _________________________-
>
> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Rita Freire <ritafreir@...> wrote:
>
>> I did not put words in his mouth, Azril. I protest against anyone at
>> this point try to shift the focus of the atrocities of Israel, for whatever
>> reason. Incidentally, I ask you. If you were in Gaza, with their
>> children and grandchildren, waiting for a bomb, or soldiers invading
>> your home, do what? Sit down for a chat? Tell me, Israel has the most
>> powerful army in the world, because it also has the U.S. reinforcements.
>> And what Palestine has to defend itself? Nothing. So let's start talking
>> about the right side. Before, please, tell what to do there. A
>> demonstration against Hamas? What should you do?
>> Best
>> Rita
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:
>>
>>>  Rita,
>>> From my corner, I strongly protest against you - or anyone saying that
>>> "I blame the Palestinian people and their resistance by what is happening
>>> in Gaza." That is putting words in my mouth never stated nor intended. In
>>> other words, it is unjustifiable difamation and distortion.
>>>
>>> I do not!
>>>
>>> For Another World to be Possible, I do not need to chose between
>>> Natanhyau and Hamas, as I did not need to chose between "Sendero Luminoso"
>>> and the Army in Perú.
>>>
>>> Luckily, the heroic Palestinian Resistance cannot be reduced to Hamas!
>>>
>>> You may want to believe as you wish, but myself and other respectable
>>> persons, according to reliable witness believe that Hamas is playing
>>> political chess with innocent children and civilians, which does Not deny
>>> that the IDF is killing children and civilians in a horrible and
>>> unacceptable way.
>>>
>>> Why should me or anyone reduce its choices to just this two violent
>>> parties trapped in their conflict and spiral of brutalization?
>>>
>>> Maybe you wished to live under Sharia law, that might be your choice,
>>> but it is not mine!
>>>
>>> Another World and Another Palestina/Israel are Possible - beyond and
>>> without Netanhayau and Hamas!
>>>
>>> The Israeli occupation of Gaza and West Bank and Apartheid must Stop!
>>>
>>> I strongly believe that a Palestinian State needs to be created soonest,
>>> representing "All" the Palestinians, hopefully along democratic and secular
>>> ways,
>>> that respect the human rights and beliefs of all.
>>>
>>> Rita, I sense your rage - but regretably no hope in your words nor
>>> vision in regard to this human tragedy. No way out of that trap where
>>> people are caged to kill and be killed. That makes Another Possible World
>>> Impossible!
>>>
>>> We have shared dangers together for our beliefs in Another Possible
>>> World. Yoo know that I am not afraid to think and express myself freely,
>>> painfully and responsible - even at the risk to provoque and challenge the
>>> beliefs and prejudices of dear compañer@s.
>>>
>>> Nobody owns the total truth, not me and not you!
>>>
>>> You wish to stop the horrors of Gaza, so do I!
>>>
>>> We just read the situation differently, which is allowed in democratic
>>> debate.
>>>
>>> Azril
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Rita Freire <ritafreir@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I  strongly protest against any attempt to blame the Palestinian people
>>>> and their resistance by what is happening in Gaza. Israel is promoting an
>>>> inconceivable and inexplicable carnage. Is offering this macabre spectacle
>>>> to the world and undermining confidence in humanity itself.. In saying
>>>> that Hamas is laying their children as human shields offends the
>>>> intelligence of the people who gather here. This is the extermination of
>>>> whole families and children in schools, churches and shelters  The
>>>> organizations of the IC should stand against this barbarism. Or what
>>>> purpose we are saying that another world is possible?  Not with our
>>>> silence.
>>>> Rita
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 4:19 AM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Avaaz:ers!
>>>>>
>>>>> I am one of you and have signed throughout the years many AVAAZ
>>>>> petitions and campaigns, including this latest one - on disinvestment to
>>>>> reach a just and sustainable peace in the protacted Israeli-Palestinian
>>>>> Conflict, but there is "a catch."
>>>>>
>>>>> Like many concerned persons, I follow the flood of information coming
>>>>> from all fronts to make sense of the ongoing bloody madness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes! sanctions against Apartheid brought a democracy of sorts to South
>>>>> Africa, which still is plagued by gross inequalities inherited from
>>>>> Apartheid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me bring the following issue: Yes, the IDF are doing the killing
>>>>> of children and civilians in Gaza - and that is totally unacceptable and
>>>>> should be stopped ASAP.
>>>>>
>>>>> But what about HAMAS putting the children and civilian to be killed in
>>>>> schools and hospitals from where they send their rockets - to suit its
>>>>> propaganda and political chess and aims in the struggle to win the front of
>>>>> international public opinion, as they seem to be winning, while we watch
>>>>> impotent and in horror the carniage taking place in Gaza?????
>>>>>
>>>>> More questions: How did HAMAS gets its (Sunni) money to do the
>>>>> "welfare" work that was neglected by the corrupt FATA/PLO administration? -
>>>>> Which in turn bought them (in terms of populist policies) the popular vote
>>>>> and support they have today - like the ayatolas in Irán?
>>>>>
>>>>> Where do HAMAS gets its money to produce the 1000s of rockets and
>>>>> mortars? Should this money go to non-lethal use maybe, like erradicating
>>>>> poverty, diminishing the gap between rich and poor, improving education,
>>>>> health and other social services? Or is violence the name of their game? -
>>>>> not that different in that respect from the israeli game.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many HAMAS fighters are hiding in their tunnels waiting for their
>>>>> turn to kill - or dying in proportion to the children and civilians on the
>>>>> surface?
>>>>>
>>>>> How come most arab neigbors are so silent about the masacre in Gaza?
>>>>>
>>>>> Having both jewish-israeli and also palestinian relatives cannot help
>>>>> the tears in my eyes and repeated insomnia - strongly believe that the
>>>>> isreali occupation of Gaza and the West Bank must stop soonest!
>>>>>
>>>>> Is HAMAS 'the' legitimate voice of the Palestinians? Do a majority of
>>>>> Palestinians want 'Sharia? as ISIS Sunnis try to impose in Irak and Siria?
>>>>>
>>>>> Stand HAMAS and its political/finantial allies for a democratic and
>>>>> secular Palestinian State? - or do they merely mirror (from its corner) the
>>>>> theocratic and racist views of the current israeli government?
>>>>>
>>>>> Should AVAAZ not include in its campaign a full STOP to all money and
>>>>> weapons lowing to both conflict parties, from all sources?
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately the UN has proven its incompetence in Gaza, Darfour,
>>>>> Rwanda, Congo and you name it.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my humble view, it is high time to recreate a Peoples' UN to
>>>>> deliver the vision of its founding charter? Basically to diminish the gap
>>>>> between rich and poor (so-called 'development') and to bring Peace to the
>>>>> people that populate this planet, built on Justice, Love and Solidarity!
>>>>>
>>>>> Even though some agencies of the UN have done good, its 'insecurity
>>>>> council' is obsolete and due to its undemocratic rules and policies made by
>>>>> the largest producers and merchants of 'heavy' and 'light' weapons deny its
>>>>> very mission.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another World is Possible without the Nathanyaus and the HAMAS and
>>>>> ISIS of this world!
>>>>>
>>>>> Another Palestine-Israeli co-existance is possible, in whichever form:
>>>>>
>>>>> (1) The old two national-state solution,
>>>>> (2) One Bi-National State with full human rights to all its citizens,
>>>>> (3) A Confederation or 'Consociational' State (like the cantons in
>>>>> Switzerland), including Israel, Palestine and Jordan
>>>>>
>>>>> - and whatever vision those directly concerned might be able to
>>>>> conceive and construct in the long term, once the 'spiral of brutalization'
>>>>> is stopped and its painful consequences and hate healed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another Peoples' UN is Possible!
>>>>>
>>>>> AVAAZ is one step in that direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for being!
>>>>>
>>>>> Azril Bacal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1406964553030
>>>>> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2014/08/1406964553030>
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>>>> communication-commission-discussion@.... Please contact
>>>>> communication-commission-discussion-manager@... for
>>>>> questions.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1406992381781
>>>> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2014/08/1406992381781>
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>>> communication-commission-discussion@.... Please contact
>>>> communication-commission-discussion-manager@... for
>>>> questions.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1406995730422
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>>>
>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>> communication-commission-discussion@.... Please contact
>>> communication-commission-discussion-manager@... for
>>> questions.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1406998626905
>> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2014/08/1406998626905>
>>
>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
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>> communication-commission-discussion-manager@... for
>> questions.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1407003385057
> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2014/08/1407003385057>
> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
> communication-commission-discussion@.... Please contact
> communication-commission-discussion-manager@... for
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I Think you should listen with extreme attention ti this interview...and 
start from there....roberto

http://www.democracynow.org/appearances/henry_siegman






On 8/2/2014 2:36 PM, Rita Freire wrote:
> Ok Azril, I have just one point: the atrocities against Gaza. It has 
> to be sttoped! It is about Israel and occupation. And it's about 
> resistence. If you or me where there, we'd be targed as terrorists 
> too. Because we are against the occuptation.  I don't judge nobody in 
> Palestine under the genocidal attacks
> The another thing is that Israel stands up against the unification of 
> the Palestinian forces into the institucionality, into  elections, 
> into the govern, into an aliance to govern Palestine, Hamas included.  
> Not Azril, they don't use children as human shields. Gaza has no more 
> than 365 km2 and more than 1,5 million inhabitants, a huge population 
> density, more than half of them children. They are not human shields. 
> They are human beings living  there, waiting for a call: you'll  be 
> dead in 4 minutes. It has no comparison with anything. The WSF should 
> stands up. If not,  why the WSF space?
> Rita
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@... 
> <mailto:bazril1@...>> wrote:
>
>     Rita,
>     Your wrote: in reply to my note, that
>
>     I (you) strongly protest against any attempt to blame
>     the Palestinian people and their resistance by what is
>     happening in Gaza. Israel is promoting an inconceivable and
>     inexplicable carnage. Is offering this macabre spectacle to the
>     world and undermining confidence in humanity itself.. In saying that
>
>     1) Where in my words dis I blame the Palestinian people and their
>     resistance (by what is happening in Gaza)?
>     2) I made and make a clear distinction between 'The Palestinian
>     People and their resistance - and Hamas!
>     3) I want to stop the killing of innocent children and civilians
>     as much as you or anybody else with human sense and empathy in
>     this world.
>     4) You put all the blame of Israel and I do not. I blame the
>     israeli government and also put blame on Hamas and its supporters.
>     Even Ho Chi Minh could distinguish between the American People and
>     its government!
>     5) I agree with you in that this kind of ongoing violence and
>     spiral of brutalization, "eye by eye" approach undermines our
>     confidence in our species!
>     6) We are both very upset with this kind of senseless killings -
>     and we both want it to stop, right?
>     7) The only way, I am painfully able to envision to "solve" this
>     bloody conflict between relatives is by creating the conditions
>     for a just peace to all concerned, which is made more difficult by
>     the balkanization of the area, by the political actors behind the
>     scene: the US and western powers on the one hand and other
>     regional powers, like Irán, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Qatar and
>     you name it. Not to forget that russian and chinese arms are as
>     lethal as western arms.
>     8) I see captive populations by their respective governments,
>     afraid and angry and accepted to be led like sheep to do the
>     killing and the dying.
>     9) This is why I chose the path of non-violence, since I believe
>     that violence and hatred generate more violence and hatred in a
>     spiral that the people trapped in the situation are unable to stop.
>     10) There are surely people of good sense in Palestine and Israel
>     that understand this vision, whose voices will be heard some day.
>     Too late to save the lives of these precious children and
>     civilians, that I do see being "pawns in the game" of people
>     behind and under the barricades.
>     No, Rita. I would ask first both the Israeli Government and Hamas
>     leaders to stop the violence first, both of them.
>     11) Then, maybe, what is left of the so-called international
>     community might be able to create conditions for a lasting truce
>     and an to put an end to this tragic conflict, which afflicts us so
>     much even at the distance.
>     12) Unfortunately, we know how obsolete the UN has shown to solve
>     cases likes this, thinking of Rwanda, Darfour, the Balkans and you
>     name it.
>     I want to criminalize war, the production and sale of weapons.
>     I want to see palestinian and israeli children holding hands,
>     laughing and playing like children do in Brazil and Sweden.
>     We are not under fire in Gaza, Rita. That makes us more
>     responsible for looking beyond the pain and short-term
>     scapegoating. Otherwise, we contribute to more violence and hatred
>     than already exists.
>     Best
>     Azril
>     _________________________-
>
>     On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Rita Freire <ritafreir@...
>     <mailto:ritafreir@...>> wrote:
>
>         I did not put words in his mouth, Azril. I protest against
>         anyone at this point try to shift the focus of the atrocities
>         of Israel, for whatever reason. Incidentally, I ask you. If
>         you were in Gaza, with their children and grandchildren,
>         waiting for a bomb, or soldiers invading your home, do what?
>         Sit down for a chat? Tell me, Israel has the most powerful
>         army in the world, because it also has the U.S.
>         reinforcements. And what Palestine has to defend itself?
>         Nothing. So let's start talking about the right side. Before,
>         please, tell what to do there. A demonstration against Hamas?
>         What should you do?
>         Best
>         Rita
>
>
>         On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Azril Bacal
>         <bazril1@... <mailto:bazril1@...>> wrote:
>
>             Rita,
>             From my corner, I strongly protest against you - or anyone
>             saying that "I blame the Palestinian people and their
>             resistance by what is happening in Gaza." That is putting
>             words in my mouth never stated nor intended. In other
>             words, it is unjustifiable difamation and distortion.
>
>             I do not!
>
>             For Another World to be Possible, I do not need to chose
>             between Natanhyau and Hamas, as I did not need to chose
>             between "Sendero Luminoso" and the Army in Perú.
>
>             Luckily, the heroic Palestinian Resistance cannot be
>             reduced to Hamas!
>
>             You may want to believe as you wish, but myself and other
>             respectable persons, according to reliable witness believe
>             that Hamas is playing political chess with innocent
>             children and civilians, which does Not deny that the IDF
>             is killing children and civilians in a horrible and
>             unacceptable way.
>
>             Why should me or anyone reduce its choices to just this
>             two violent parties trapped in their conflict and spiral
>             of brutalization?
>
>             Maybe you wished to live under Sharia law, that might be
>             your choice, but it is not mine!
>
>             Another World and Another Palestina/Israel are Possible -
>             beyond and without Netanhayau and Hamas!
>
>             The Israeli occupation of Gaza and West Bank and Apartheid
>             must Stop!
>
>             I strongly believe that a Palestinian State needs to be
>             created soonest, representing "All" the Palestinians,
>             hopefully along democratic and secular ways,
>             that respect the human rights and beliefs of all.
>
>             Rita, I sense your rage - but regretably no hope in your
>             words nor vision in regard to this human tragedy. No way
>             out of that trap where people are caged to kill and be
>             killed. That makes Another Possible World Impossible!
>
>             We have shared dangers together for our beliefs in Another
>             Possible World. Yoo know that I am not afraid to think and
>             express myself freely, painfully and responsible - even at
>             the risk to provoque and challenge the beliefs and
>             prejudices of dear compañer@s.
>
>             Nobody owns the total truth, not me and not you!
>
>             You wish to stop the horrors of Gaza, so do I!
>
>             We just read the situation differently, which is allowed
>             in democratic debate.
>
>             Azril
>
>
>
>
>             On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Rita Freire
>             <ritafreir@... <mailto:ritafreir@...>> wrote:
>
>                 I strongly protest against any attempt to blame the
>                 Palestinian people and their resistance by what is
>                 happening in Gaza. Israel is promoting an
>                 inconceivable and inexplicable carnage. Is offering
>                 this macabre spectacle to the world and undermining
>                 confidence in humanity itself.. In saying that Hamas
>                 is laying their children as human shields offends the
>                 intelligence of the people who gather here. This is
>                 the extermination of whole families and children in
>                 schools, churches and shelters The organizations of
>                 the IC should stand against this barbarism. Or what
>                 purpose we are saying that another world is possible? 
>                 Not with our silence.
>                 Rita
>
>
>                 On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 4:19 AM, Azril Bacal
>                 <bazril1@... <mailto:bazril1@...>> wrote:
>
>
>                     Dear Avaaz:ers!
>
>                     I am one of you and have signed throughout the
>                     years many AVAAZ petitions and campaigns,
>                     including this latest one - on disinvestment to
>                     reach a just and sustainable peace in the
>                     protacted Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, but there
>                     is "a catch."
>
>                     Like many concerned persons, I follow the flood of
>                     information coming from all fronts to make sense
>                     of the ongoing bloody madness.
>
>                     Yes! sanctions against Apartheid brought a
>                     democracy of sorts to South Africa, which still is
>                     plagued by gross inequalities inherited from
>                     Apartheid.
>
>                     Let me bring the following issue: Yes, the IDF are
>                     doing the killing of children and civilians in
>                     Gaza - and that is totally unacceptable and should
>                     be stopped ASAP.
>
>                     But what about HAMAS putting the children and
>                     civilian to be killed in schools and hospitals
>                     from where they send their rockets - to suit its
>                     propaganda and political chess and aims in the
>                     struggle to win the front of international public
>                     opinion, as they seem to be winning, while we
>                     watch impotent and in horror the carniage taking
>                     place in Gaza?????
>
>                     More questions: How did HAMAS gets its (Sunni)
>                     money to do the "welfare" work that was neglected
>                     by the corrupt FATA/PLO administration? - Which in
>                     turn bought them (in terms of populist policies)
>                     the popular vote and support they have today -
>                     like the ayatolas in Irán?
>
>                     Where do HAMAS gets its money to produce the 1000s
>                     of rockets and mortars? Should this money go to
>                     non-lethal use maybe, like erradicating poverty,
>                     diminishing the gap between rich and poor,
>                     improving education, health and other social
>                     services? Or is violence the name of their game? -
>                     not that different in that respect from the
>                     israeli game.
>
>                     How many HAMAS fighters are hiding in their
>                     tunnels waiting for their turn to kill - or dying
>                     in proportion to the children and civilians on the
>                     surface?
>
>                     How come most arab neigbors are so silent about
>                     the masacre in Gaza?
>
>                     Having both jewish-israeli and also palestinian
>                     relatives cannot help the tears in my eyes and
>                     repeated insomnia - strongly believe that the
>                     isreali occupation of Gaza and the West Bank must
>                     stop soonest!
>
>                     Is HAMAS 'the' legitimate voice of the
>                     Palestinians? Do a majority of Palestinians want
>                     'Sharia? as ISIS Sunnis try to impose in Irak and
>                     Siria?
>
>                     Stand HAMAS and its political/finantial allies for
>                     a democratic and secular Palestinian State? - or
>                     do they merely mirror (from its corner) the
>                     theocratic and racist views of the current israeli
>                     government?
>
>                     Should AVAAZ not include in its campaign a full
>                     STOP to all money and weapons lowing to both
>                     conflict parties, from all sources?
>
>                     Unfortunately the UN has proven its incompetence
>                     in Gaza, Darfour, Rwanda, Congo and you name it.
>
>                     In my humble view, it is high time to recreate a
>                     Peoples' UN to deliver the vision of its founding
>                     charter? Basically to diminish the gap between
>                     rich and poor (so-called 'development') and to
>                     bring Peace to the people that populate this
>                     planet, built on Justice, Love and Solidarity!
>
>                     Even though some agencies of the UN have done
>                     good, its 'insecurity council' is obsolete and due
>                     to its undemocratic rules and policies made by the
>                     largest producers and merchants of 'heavy' and
>                     'light' weapons deny its very mission.
>
>                     Another World is Possible without the Nathanyaus
>                     and the HAMAS and ISIS of this world!
>
>                     Another Palestine-Israeli co-existance is
>                     possible, in whichever form:
>
>                     (1) The old two national-state solution,
>                     (2) One Bi-National State with full human rights
>                     to all its citizens,
>                     (3) A Confederation or 'Consociational' State
>                     (like the cantons in Switzerland), including
>                     Israel, Palestine and Jordan
>
>                     - and whatever vision those directly concerned
>                     might be able to conceive and construct in the
>                     long term, once the 'spiral of brutalization' is
>                     stopped and its painful consequences and hate healed.
>
>                     Another Peoples' UN is Possible!
>
>                     AVAAZ is one step in that direction.
>
>                     Thanks for being!
>
>                     Azril Bacal
>
>
>
>                     --
>                     Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1406964553030
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I totally agree with Rita. 

It is unacceptable to compare the genocidal policies of Israel and the resistance led by Hamas

One may not like Hamas, but it is the leading Palestinian organization resisting against israeli policies

Right now, in the Arab world, Hamas has become so popular that even the most reactionary governments are obliged to support its resistance to the Israeli barbaric killing of hundreds of innocent people

Even the UN Human Rights Council has passed a Resolution explicitly condemning Israel (which was defended by the lone voice of the United States!) and asking that investigation be made for possible war crimes by Israel  

Demba 

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 15:36:42 -0300
Subject: Re: [Communication commission discussion]
From: ritafreir@...
To: communication-commission-discussion@...
CC: bo.nylund@...; cmagallon@...; kg.hammar@...

Ok Azril, I have just one point: the atrocities against Gaza. It has to be sttoped! It is about Israel and occupation. And it's about resistence. If you or me where there, we'd be targed as terrorists too. Because we are against the occuptation.  I don't judge nobody in Palestine under the genocidal attacks

The another thing is that Israel stands up against the unification of the Palestinian forces into the institucionality, into  elections, into the govern, into an aliance to govern Palestine, Hamas included.  Not Azril, they don't use children as human shields. Gaza has no more than 365 km2 and more than 1,5 million inhabitants, a huge population density, more than half of them children. They are not human shields. They are human beings living  there, waiting for a call: you'll  be dead in 4 minutes. It has no comparison with anything. The WSF should stands up. If not,  why the WSF space?

Rita


On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:

Rita,Your wrote: in reply to my note, that

I (you) strongly protest against any attempt to blame the Palestinian people and their resistance by what is happening in Gaza. Israel is promoting an inconceivable and inexplicable carnage. Is offering this macabre spectacle to the world and undermining confidence in humanity itself.. In saying that 



1) Where in my words dis I blame the Palestinian people and their resistance (by what is happening in Gaza)? 2) I made and make a clear distinction between 'The Palestinian People and their resistance - and Hamas!


3) I want to stop the killing of innocent children and civilians as much as you or anybody else with human sense and empathy in this world.4) You put all the blame of Israel and I do not. I blame the israeli government and also put blame on Hamas and its supporters. Even Ho Chi Minh could distinguish between the American People and its government!


5) I agree with you in that this kind of ongoing violence and spiral of brutalization, "eye by eye" approach undermines our confidence in our species!6) We are both very upset with this kind of senseless killings - and we both want it to stop, right?


7) The only way, I am painfully able to envision to "solve" this bloody conflict between relatives is by creating the conditions for a just peace to all concerned, which is made more difficult by the balkanization of the area, by the political actors behind the scene: the US and western powers on the one hand and other regional powers, like Irán, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Qatar and you name it. Not to forget that russian and chinese arms are as lethal as western arms.



8) I see captive populations by their respective governments, afraid and angry and accepted to be led like sheep to do the killing and the dying.9) This is why I chose the path of non-violence, since I believe that violence and hatred generate more violence and hatred in a spiral that the people trapped in the situation are unable to stop.


10) There are surely people of good sense in Palestine and Israel that understand this vision, whose voices will be heard some day. Too late to save the lives of these precious children and civilians, that I do see being "pawns in the game" of people behind and under the barricades.


No, Rita. I would ask first both the Israeli Government and Hamas leaders to stop the violence first, both of them.11) Then, maybe, what is left of the so-called international community might be able to create conditions for a lasting truce and an to put an end to this tragic conflict, which afflicts us so much even at the distance.


12) Unfortunately, we know how obsolete the UN has shown to solve cases likes this, thinking of Rwanda, Darfour, the Balkans and you name it.I want to criminalize war, the production and sale of weapons.


I want to see palestinian and israeli children holding hands, laughing and playing like children do in Brazil and Sweden.We are not under fire in Gaza, Rita. That makes us more responsible for looking beyond the pain and short-term scapegoating. Otherwise, we contribute to more violence and hatred than already exists.


BestAzril _________________________-

On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Rita Freire <ritafreir@...> wrote:



I did not put words in his mouth, Azril. I protest against anyone at this point try to shift the focus of the atrocities of Israel, for whatever reason. Incidentally, I ask you. If you were in Gaza, with their children and grandchildren, waiting for a bomb, or soldiers invading your home, do what? Sit down for a chat? Tell me, Israel has the most powerful army in the world, because it also has the U.S. reinforcements. And what Palestine has to defend itself? Nothing. So let's start talking about the right side. Before, please, tell what to do there. A demonstration against Hamas? What should you do?




Best
Rita



On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:




Rita,From my corner, I strongly protest against you - or anyone saying that "I blame the Palestinian people and their resistance by what is happening in Gaza." That is putting words in my mouth never stated nor intended. In other words, it is unjustifiable difamation and distortion.





I do not!
For Another World to be Possible, I do not need to chose between Natanhyau and Hamas, as I did not need to chose between "Sendero Luminoso" and the Army in Perú.





Luckily, the heroic Palestinian Resistance cannot be reduced to Hamas!
You may want to believe as you wish, but myself and other respectable persons, according to reliable witness believe that Hamas is playing political chess with innocent children and civilians, which does Not deny that the IDF is killing children and civilians in a horrible and unacceptable way.





Why should me or anyone reduce its choices to just this two violent parties trapped in their conflict and spiral of brutalization? 
Maybe you wished to live under Sharia law, that might be your choice, but it is not mine! 





Another World and Another Palestina/Israel are Possible - beyond and without Netanhayau and Hamas!
The Israeli occupation of Gaza and West Bank and Apartheid must Stop!





I strongly believe that a Palestinian State needs to be created soonest, representing "All" the Palestinians, hopefully along democratic and secular ways,that respect the human rights and beliefs of all.






Rita, I sense your rage - but regretably no hope in your words nor vision in regard to this human tragedy. No way out of that trap where people are caged to kill and be killed. That makes Another Possible World Impossible!





We have shared dangers together for our beliefs in Another Possible World. Yoo know that I am not afraid to think and express myself freely, painfully and responsible - even at the risk to provoque and challenge the beliefs and prejudices of dear compañer@s.





Nobody owns the total truth, not me and not you!
You wish to stop the horrors of Gaza, so do I!
We just read the situation differently, which is allowed in democratic debate.





Azril



On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Rita Freire <ritafreir@...> wrote:





I  strongly protest against any attempt to blame the Palestinian people and their resistance by what is happening in Gaza. Israel is promoting an inconceivable and inexplicable carnage. Is offering this macabre spectacle to the world and undermining confidence in humanity itself.. In saying that Hamas is laying their children as human shields offends the intelligence of the people who gather here. This is the extermination of whole families and children in schools, churches and shelters  The organizations of the IC should stand against this barbarism. Or what purpose we are saying that another world is possible?  Not with our silence.






Rita


On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 4:19 AM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:







Dear Avaaz:ers!



I am one of you and have signed throughout the years many AVAAZ petitions and campaigns, including this latest one - on disinvestment to reach a just and sustainable peace in the protacted Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, but there is "a catch."







Like many concerned persons, I follow the flood of information coming from all fronts to make sense of the ongoing bloody madness.
Yes! sanctions against Apartheid brought a democracy of sorts to South Africa, which still is plagued by gross inequalities inherited from Apartheid.







Let me bring the following issue: Yes, the IDF are doing the killing of children and civilians in Gaza - and that is totally unacceptable and should be stopped ASAP.
But what about HAMAS putting the children and civilian to be killed in schools and hospitals from where they send their rockets - to suit its propaganda and political chess and aims in the struggle to win the front of international public opinion, as they seem to be winning, while we watch impotent and in horror the carniage taking place in Gaza?????







More questions: How did HAMAS gets its (Sunni) money to do the "welfare" work that was neglected by the corrupt FATA/PLO administration? - Which in turn bought them (in terms of populist policies) the popular vote and support they have today - like the ayatolas in Irán?







Where do HAMAS gets its money to produce the 1000s of rockets and mortars? Should this money go to non-lethal use maybe, like erradicating poverty, diminishing the gap between rich and poor, improving education, health and other social services? Or is violence the name of their game? - not that different in that respect from the israeli game.







How many HAMAS fighters are hiding in their tunnels waiting for their turn to kill - or dying in proportion to the children and civilians on the surface?
How come most arab neigbors are so silent about the masacre in Gaza?







Having both jewish-israeli and also palestinian relatives cannot help the tears in my eyes and repeated insomnia - strongly believe that the isreali occupation of Gaza and the West Bank must stop soonest!







Is HAMAS 'the' legitimate voice of the Palestinians? Do a majority of Palestinians want 'Sharia? as ISIS Sunnis try to impose in Irak and Siria?
Stand HAMAS and its political/finantial allies for a democratic and secular Palestinian State? - or do they merely mirror (from its corner) the theocratic and racist views of the current israeli government?   







Should AVAAZ not include in its campaign a full STOP to all money and weapons lowing to both conflict parties, from all sources?
Unfortunately the UN has proven its incompetence in Gaza, Darfour, Rwanda, Congo and you name it.







In my humble view, it is high time to recreate a Peoples' UN to deliver the vision of its founding charter? Basically to diminish the gap between rich and poor (so-called 'development') and to bring Peace to the people that populate this planet, built on Justice, Love and Solidarity!







Even though some agencies of the UN have done good, its 'insecurity council' is obsolete and due to its undemocratic rules and policies made by the largest producers and merchants of 'heavy' and 'light' weapons deny its very mission.







Another World is Possible without the Nathanyaus and the HAMAS and ISIS of this world!
Another Palestine-Israeli co-existance is possible, in whichever form:







(1) The old two national-state solution,(2) One Bi-National State with full human rights to all its citizens,(3) A Confederation or 'Consociational' State (like the cantons in Switzerland), including Israel, Palestine and Jordan







- and whatever vision those directly concerned might be able to conceive and construct in the long term, once the 'spiral of brutalization' is stopped and its painful consequences and hate healed.







Another Peoples' UN is Possible! 
AVAAZ is one step in that direction.
Thanks for being!
Azril Bacal









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Querida Rita,
You have more than one point and so do I.
We agree that the atrocities against the childern and civilians in Gaza
must be stopped. The question is how, righ? My way of seeing that stop is
that the both parties in this madness agree to stop.
We agree about stopping Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, or?
We agree about the creation of a unified and free Palestinian State - or
maybe another comprehensive solution for all parties involved?

>From afar, my vision for the region is a Pluri-National State like Evo's
Bolivia, where all citizens full enjoy equal human and citizen rights in
terms of religion, gender, sexual preference, the right to education,
health and you name it.
In my view, the bonapartist national-state project is nowdays obsolete in
the 21st Century. I do not believe that an "ethnic" state can be a
democratic state providing equal rights to all its citizens.

I have the obligation to think from the distance about the complexity of
the situation - and that implies having an opinion not only about the
current violent fascist government in Israel (and its allies) - but also
about the violent and fundamentalism of Hamas (and his allies).

People and children are Human Beings like you and me - but we disagree
about the question of "human shields," as abominable and insensate to our
human condition as it sounds. In that terrible scenario, the IDF is doing
precisely what the Hamas leadership wants them to do. Good people like us
do not like to think that people trapped in violent conflict play political
chess with civilians. This is not new, even though it is difficult to
swallow in our manicheistic way of thinking.

I agree with Ivonne in that the WSF should have a statement about the
"weapons industries' (euphemistically called "defense industries" - like in
Orwell's english).
What about proposing "to criminalize" the production of weapons and violent
conflict? Even Brazil has a profitable weapons industry nobody talks about,
like a taboo topic - or?

You are right, I would be killed in 4 minutes if I were in Gaza, like we
could have been killed in Oaxaca, remember? But given that I and you are
not in Gaza, let us move beyond our black/white little boxes. This is for
me the open space implied by the WSF, to think beyond the conventional and
act accordingly.

Abrazo
Azril

On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Rita Freire <ritafreir@...> wrote:

> Ok Azril, I have just one point: the atrocities against Gaza. It has to be
> sttoped! It is about Israel and occupation. And it's about resistence. If
> you or me where there, we'd be targed as terrorists too. Because we are
> against the occuptation.  I don't judge nobody in Palestine under the
> genocidal attacks
> The another thing is that Israel stands up against the unification of the
> Palestinian forces into the institucionality, into  elections, into the
> govern, into an aliance to govern Palestine, Hamas included.  Not Azril,
> they don't use children as human shields. Gaza has no more than 365 km2 and
> more than 1,5 million inhabitants, a huge population density, more than half
> of them children. They are not human shields. They are human beings living
> there, waiting for a call: you'll  be dead in 4 minutes. It has no
> comparison with anything. The WSF should stands up. If not,  why the WSF
> space?
> Rita
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:
>
>> Rita,
>> Your wrote: in reply to my note, that
>>
>> I (you) strongly protest against any attempt to blame the Palestinian
>> people and their resistance by what is happening in Gaza. Israel is
>> promoting an inconceivable and inexplicable carnage. Is offering
>> this macabre spectacle to the world and undermining confidence in
>> humanity itself.. In saying that
>>
>> 1) Where in my words dis I blame the Palestinian people and their
>> resistance (by what is happening in Gaza)?
>> 2) I made and make a clear distinction between 'The Palestinian People
>> and their resistance - and Hamas!
>> 3) I want to stop the killing of innocent children and civilians as much
>> as you or anybody else with human sense and empathy in this world.
>> 4) You put all the blame of Israel and I do not. I blame the israeli
>> government and also put blame on Hamas and its supporters. Even Ho Chi Minh
>> could distinguish between the American People and its government!
>> 5) I agree with you in that this kind of ongoing violence and spiral of
>> brutalization, "eye by eye" approach undermines our confidence in our
>> species!
>> 6) We are both very upset with this kind of senseless killings - and we
>> both want it to stop, right?
>> 7) The only way, I am painfully able to envision to "solve" this bloody
>> conflict between relatives is by creating the conditions for a just peace
>> to all concerned, which is made more difficult by the balkanization of the
>> area, by the political actors behind the scene: the US and western powers
>> on the one hand and other regional powers, like Irán, Saudi Arabia, Egypt,
>> Turkey, Qatar and you name it. Not to forget that russian and chinese arms
>> are as lethal as western arms.
>> 8) I see captive populations by their respective governments, afraid and
>> angry and accepted to be led like sheep to do the killing and the dying.
>> 9) This is why I chose the path of non-violence, since I believe that
>> violence and hatred generate more violence and hatred in a spiral that the
>> people trapped in the situation are unable to stop.
>> 10) There are surely people of good sense in Palestine and Israel that
>> understand this vision, whose voices will be heard some day. Too late to
>> save the lives of these precious children and civilians, that I do see
>> being "pawns in the game" of people behind and under the barricades.
>> No, Rita. I would ask first both the Israeli Government and Hamas leaders
>> to stop the violence first, both of them.
>> 11) Then, maybe, what is left of the so-called international community
>> might be able to create conditions for a lasting truce and an to put an end
>> to this tragic conflict, which afflicts us so much even at the distance.
>> 12) Unfortunately, we know how obsolete the UN has shown to solve cases
>> likes this, thinking of Rwanda, Darfour, the Balkans and you name it.
>> I want to criminalize war, the production and sale of weapons.
>> I want to see palestinian and israeli children holding hands, laughing
>> and playing like children do in Brazil and Sweden.
>> We are not under fire in Gaza, Rita. That makes us more responsible for
>> looking beyond the pain and short-term scapegoating. Otherwise, we
>> contribute to more violence and hatred than already exists.
>> Best
>> Azril
>> _________________________-
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Rita Freire <ritafreir@...> wrote:
>>
>>> I did not put words in his mouth, Azril. I protest against anyone at
>>> this point try to shift the focus of the atrocities of Israel, for whatever
>>> reason. Incidentally, I ask you. If you were in Gaza, with their
>>> children and grandchildren, waiting for a bomb, or soldiers invading
>>> your home, do what? Sit down for a chat? Tell me, Israel has the most
>>> powerful army in the world, because it also has the U.S. reinforcements.
>>> And what Palestine has to defend itself? Nothing. So let's start talking
>>> about the right side. Before, please, tell what to do there. A
>>> demonstration against Hamas? What should you do?
>>> Best
>>> Rita
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Rita,
>>>> From my corner, I strongly protest against you - or anyone saying that
>>>> "I blame the Palestinian people and their resistance by what is happening
>>>> in Gaza." That is putting words in my mouth never stated nor intended. In
>>>> other words, it is unjustifiable difamation and distortion.
>>>>
>>>> I do not!
>>>>
>>>> For Another World to be Possible, I do not need to chose between
>>>> Natanhyau and Hamas, as I did not need to chose between "Sendero Luminoso"
>>>> and the Army in Perú.
>>>>
>>>> Luckily, the heroic Palestinian Resistance cannot be reduced to Hamas!
>>>>
>>>> You may want to believe as you wish, but myself and other respectable
>>>> persons, according to reliable witness believe that Hamas is playing
>>>> political chess with innocent children and civilians, which does Not deny
>>>> that the IDF is killing children and civilians in a horrible and
>>>> unacceptable way.
>>>>
>>>> Why should me or anyone reduce its choices to just this two violent
>>>> parties trapped in their conflict and spiral of brutalization?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you wished to live under Sharia law, that might be your choice,
>>>> but it is not mine!
>>>>
>>>> Another World and Another Palestina/Israel are Possible - beyond and
>>>> without Netanhayau and Hamas!
>>>>
>>>> The Israeli occupation of Gaza and West Bank and Apartheid must Stop!
>>>>
>>>> I strongly believe that a Palestinian State needs to be created
>>>> soonest, representing "All" the Palestinians, hopefully along democratic
>>>> and secular ways,
>>>> that respect the human rights and beliefs of all.
>>>>
>>>> Rita, I sense your rage - but regretably no hope in your words nor
>>>> vision in regard to this human tragedy. No way out of that trap where
>>>> people are caged to kill and be killed. That makes Another Possible World
>>>> Impossible!
>>>>
>>>> We have shared dangers together for our beliefs in Another Possible
>>>> World. Yoo know that I am not afraid to think and express myself freely,
>>>> painfully and responsible - even at the risk to provoque and challenge the
>>>> beliefs and prejudices of dear compañer@s.
>>>>
>>>> Nobody owns the total truth, not me and not you!
>>>>
>>>> You wish to stop the horrors of Gaza, so do I!
>>>>
>>>> We just read the situation differently, which is allowed in democratic
>>>> debate.
>>>>
>>>> Azril
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Rita Freire <ritafreir@...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I  strongly protest against any attempt to blame the Palestinian
>>>>> people and their resistance by what is happening in Gaza. Israel is
>>>>> promoting an inconceivable and inexplicable carnage. Is offering this
>>>>> macabre spectacle to the world and undermining confidence in humanity
>>>>> itself.. In saying that Hamas is laying their children as human
>>>>> shields offends the intelligence of the people who gather here. This
>>>>> is the extermination of whole families and children in schools,
>>>>> churches and shelters  The organizations of the IC should stand
>>>>> against this barbarism. Or what purpose we are saying that another
>>>>> world is possible?  Not with our silence.
>>>>> Rita
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 4:19 AM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Avaaz:ers!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am one of you and have signed throughout the years many AVAAZ
>>>>>> petitions and campaigns, including this latest one - on disinvestment to
>>>>>> reach a just and sustainable peace in the protacted Israeli-Palestinian
>>>>>> Conflict, but there is "a catch."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like many concerned persons, I follow the flood of information coming
>>>>>> from all fronts to make sense of the ongoing bloody madness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes! sanctions against Apartheid brought a democracy of sorts to
>>>>>> South Africa, which still is plagued by gross inequalities inherited from
>>>>>> Apartheid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me bring the following issue: Yes, the IDF are doing the killing
>>>>>> of children and civilians in Gaza - and that is totally unacceptable and
>>>>>> should be stopped ASAP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what about HAMAS putting the children and civilian to be killed
>>>>>> in schools and hospitals from where they send their rockets - to suit its
>>>>>> propaganda and political chess and aims in the struggle to win the front of
>>>>>> international public opinion, as they seem to be winning, while we watch
>>>>>> impotent and in horror the carniage taking place in Gaza?????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More questions: How did HAMAS gets its (Sunni) money to do the
>>>>>> "welfare" work that was neglected by the corrupt FATA/PLO administration? -
>>>>>> Which in turn bought them (in terms of populist policies) the popular vote
>>>>>> and support they have today - like the ayatolas in Irán?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where do HAMAS gets its money to produce the 1000s of rockets and
>>>>>> mortars? Should this money go to non-lethal use maybe, like erradicating
>>>>>> poverty, diminishing the gap between rich and poor, improving education,
>>>>>> health and other social services? Or is violence the name of their game? -
>>>>>> not that different in that respect from the israeli game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many HAMAS fighters are hiding in their tunnels waiting for their
>>>>>> turn to kill - or dying in proportion to the children and civilians on the
>>>>>> surface?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How come most arab neigbors are so silent about the masacre in Gaza?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having both jewish-israeli and also palestinian relatives cannot help
>>>>>> the tears in my eyes and repeated insomnia - strongly believe that the
>>>>>> isreali occupation of Gaza and the West Bank must stop soonest!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is HAMAS 'the' legitimate voice of the Palestinians? Do a majority of
>>>>>> Palestinians want 'Sharia? as ISIS Sunnis try to impose in Irak and Siria?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stand HAMAS and its political/finantial allies for a democratic and
>>>>>> secular Palestinian State? - or do they merely mirror (from its corner) the
>>>>>> theocratic and racist views of the current israeli government?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should AVAAZ not include in its campaign a full STOP to all money and
>>>>>> weapons lowing to both conflict parties, from all sources?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately the UN has proven its incompetence in Gaza, Darfour,
>>>>>> Rwanda, Congo and you name it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my humble view, it is high time to recreate a Peoples' UN to
>>>>>> deliver the vision of its founding charter? Basically to diminish the gap
>>>>>> between rich and poor (so-called 'development') and to bring Peace to the
>>>>>> people that populate this planet, built on Justice, Love and Solidarity!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even though some agencies of the UN have done good, its 'insecurity
>>>>>> council' is obsolete and due to its undemocratic rules and policies made by
>>>>>> the largest producers and merchants of 'heavy' and 'light' weapons deny its
>>>>>> very mission.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another World is Possible without the Nathanyaus and the HAMAS and
>>>>>> ISIS of this world!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another Palestine-Israeli co-existance is possible, in whichever form:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (1) The old two national-state solution,
>>>>>> (2) One Bi-National State with full human rights to all its citizens,
>>>>>> (3) A Confederation or 'Consociational' State (like the cantons in
>>>>>> Switzerland), including Israel, Palestine and Jordan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - and whatever vision those directly concerned might be able to
>>>>>> conceive and construct in the long term, once the 'spiral of brutalization'
>>>>>> is stopped and its painful consequences and hate healed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another Peoples' UN is Possible!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AVAAZ is one step in that direction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for being!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Azril Bacal
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1406964553030
>>>>>> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2014/08/1406964553030>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>>>>> communication-commission-discussion@.... Please
>>>>>> contact communication-commission-discussion-manager@...
>>>>>> for questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1406992381781
>>>>> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2014/08/1406992381781>
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>>>> communication-commission-discussion@.... Please contact
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>>>>> questions.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1406995730422
>>>> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2014/08/1406995730422>
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
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>>>> questions.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1406998626905
>>> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2014/08/1406998626905>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1407003385057
>> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2014/08/1407003385057>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Archive: http://openfsm.net/[…]/1407005210211
> <http://openfsm.net/projects/communication-commission/lists/communication-commission-discussion/archive/2014/08/1407005210211>
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