• Communication commission discussion

  • Re: [nigd-list] Thanks for Your Call To Occupy The Internet! (fwd)

    from Azril Bacal on Jan 24, 2015 09:07 AM 
    Please, Jai!
Do actually read my comments about this topic, from my previous experience
with the so-called "First World Civil Society Forum" in Geneva, a few years
ago, which also applies to my views concerning the also first "Global
Progressive Forum" in Brussels, just a week after the European Social Forum
in Paris, also a few years ago; reflected in my position within the IC-WSF
against incoporating them in our council, on the basis that they
represented the views and interests of neo-liberalism, the world project
that the WSF is supposed to oppose and replace with "Another Possible
World."
In the spirit of Rajni Kothari's inspiration
Azril

On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Jai Sen <jai.sen@...> wrote:

> Saturday, January 24 2015
>
>
>
> Hi Azril and/or Mikael
>
>             Thanks very much for ccing me into this exchange.  I can see
> from this Mikael, that you are very enthusiastic indeed about the Internet
> Social Forum and its call to ‘occupy the net’ !
>
>             I can only hope that the arguments I've made on the list will
> make at least some sense to you, and that you and NIGD might accordingly,
> and at the minimum, relate to the initiative more critically.  I of course
> look forward to your reactions to my post, and am hoping that we can
> continue to discuss this matter – as we have others, in the past -, but in
> the meanwhile, and at this juncture, that you might agree that some caution
> and strategy is required.
>
> A simple step might simply be for the authors of the Internet Social Forum
> to, before proceeding / pushing further, open their idea to rigorous
> discussion and debate, and in particular to extensively take the idea to
> movements (social movement, liberation movements) and to see, through
> consultation, whether any modifications are required…. and whether any such
> organisations agree to come on board.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Jai
>
> On Jan 23 2015, at 10:54 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:
>
> Querido Amigo,
> It was even worse than previously written!
> As we put the struggle to avoid the Miami Cubans gain control over the
> working group on Latin America - and it was not a small feat!
> The Miami Cubans were organized very well to gain control of that group,
> but did not count with us :-)
> But, and important to take note of: the working group on indigenous
> peoples was won by pro-American indigenous "representatives," in the name
> of the "consensus" mechanism, showing how vulnerable is the "consensus
> clause"  to manipulation by trained cadres to control such situations!!!
> Not a minor lesson from that experience, right amigo!
> It is clear that infiltration by kapitalist agents is in place, while we
> remain generously open and democratic about it - if at all aware of such
> nasty reality that one wishes to ignore, right amigo?
> Our task to construct Another Possible World is urgently required, but it
> ain´t an esay task at all...
> Podemos!
> About attending the next WSF at Tunis, my wish is there - but lack the
> funds at this point in time!
> Abrazo
> Azril
>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:06 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril@...> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mikael,
>>
>> Hola amigo!
>>
>> By chance, attended the First World Civil Society Forum in Geneve,
>> a few years ago, along with the swedish delegation.
>>
>> At arrival, the Front page in the local newspapers was written:
>> "We" (WFCS) are not political like the WSF! On that note of alert, my
>> radar was inmediately triggered...just to confirm the worse hypothesis
>> about it.
>>
>> It did not take too long to understand who was behind it. In the working
>> group on Latin America, were not for a brazilian journalist from MST, a
>> mexican and a peruvian colleague and myself, that working group would have
>> been led by a cuban group from Miami.  For Ripley - or maybe to be expected.
>>
>> For what is worth, not willing to disappoint anyone. But it is my
>> responsability to alert you, or it would not be me, right? :-)
>>
>> Not everything shining is gold :-)
>> This is serious stuff and needs to be addressed with much discretion,
>> please!
>> Abrazo
>> Azril
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:38 PM, Mikael Book <book@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dear NIGDers,
>>>
>>> below, please find a copy of my message to the organisers of a workshop
>>> preparing an Internet Social Forum (described in the press release today,
>>> which I just posted to the nigd-list). Is it OK with you if I suggest to
>>> them that NIGD participates in this workshop as an organisation, perhaps as
>>> co-organiser? I promise to be an active participant.
>>>
>>> Has NIGD registered its participation in the WSF in Tunis?
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> Mikael
>>>
>>> Mikael Böök * book@... * gsm +358(0)-44 5511 324 *
>>> http://www.kaapeli.fi/book/  * http://blogi.kaapeli.fi/book/ *
>>> http://blog.spinellisfootsteps.info/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 19:23:51 +0200 (EET)
>>> From: Mikael Book <book@...>
>>> To: secretariat@...
>>> Cc: Mikael Book <book@...>
>>> Subject: Thanks for Your Call To Occupy The Internet!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for your call to occupy the internet and for your
>>> press release today, January 22. This looks precisely like what I have
>>> hoped would come up at the WSF in Tunis! (Could, for example, continue
>>> http://openfsm.net/projects/peace-and-internet/project-home ?)
>>>
>>> Grateful, if we can be in contact asap, to discuss how I and my group
>>> can participate. My group: the Network Institute for Global
>>> Democratization, a Finland-based group of researchers-actvistist.
>>>
>>> Please keep me posted, put me on your mailing list...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Mikael
>>>
>>> Mikael Böök * book@... * gsm +358(0)-44 5511 324 *
>>> http://www.kaapeli.fi/book/  * http://blogi.kaapeli.fi/book/ *
>>> http://blog.spinellisfootsteps.info/
>>
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________
>
> Jai Sen
>
> jai.sen@... / jai@...
>
> www.cacim.net / http://www.openword.in
>
> Now based in Ottawa, Canada (+1-613-282 2900), and New Delhi, India (+91-98189
> 11325)
>
> *RECENT PUBLICATIONS :*
>
> Jai Sen, ed, 2013 – *The Movements of Movements : Struggles for Other
> Worlds*, Part I*.* Volume 4 Part I in the *Challenging Empires* series.
> New Delhi : OpenWord.  *Available
> @ http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/
> <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/>*
>
> *FORTHCOMING PUBLICATIONS  :*
>
> Jai Sen and Peter Waterman, eds, forthcoming (2015) – *The Movements of
> Movements : Struggles for Other Worlds**,* Part 2. Volume 4 Part II in the
>  *Challenging Empires* series.  New Delhi : OpenWord
>
> *CHECK OUT* *CACIM* @ www.cacim.net, *OpenWord* @ http://www.openword.in,
> and *OpenSpaceForum* @ www.openspaceforum.net
>
> *AND SUBSCRIBE TO* *WSFDiscuss*, an open and unmoderated forum for the
> exchange of information and views on the experience, practice, and theory
> of social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional,
> and global), including the World Social Forum.  *To subscribe, simply
> send an empty email
> to worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe@...
> <worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe@...>*
>
>
    Thread Outline:

  • Re: [nigd-list] Thanks for Your Call To Occupy The Internet! (fwd)

    from CACIM on Jan 26, 2015 09:21 AM 
    Monday, January 26 2015

 

Azril, though I'm not quite sure what you mean by saying “Please, Jai!”, I've tried looking up what you’ve written on “previous experience with the so-called "First World Civil Society Forum" in Geneva, a few years ago” – which you say “also applies to my views concerning the also first "Global Progressive Forum" in Brussels, just a week after the European Social Forum in Paris, also a few years ago; reflected in my position within the IC-WSF against incoporating them in our council, on the basis that they represented the views and interests of neo-liberalism, the world project that the WSF is supposed to oppose and replace with "Another Possible World."” – but haven't been able to find anything.

            Could you therefore please send it to me ?

            Thanks.

            Jai

PS : I notice that you’ve this time widened the list of people to whom you have cc’d your message..  As I said earlier on, thanks for copying me in the first case, and I of course have no problems with your widening the list, but can you explain - what is it that you have in mind, by this side discussion ?  (Just to clarify for those not that list, by ‘side’ I'm referring to a closely-related exchange that has started on the WSFDiscuss list.)  Thanks.


On Jan 24 2015, at 2:21 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:

> Please, Jai!
> Do actually read my comments about this topic, from my previous experience with the so-called "First World Civil Society Forum" in Geneva, a few years ago, which also applies to my views concerning the also first "Global Progressive Forum" in Brussels, just a week after the European Social Forum in Paris, also a few years ago; reflected in my position within the IC-WSF against incoporating them in our council, on the basis that they represented the views and interests of neo-liberalism, the world project that the WSF is supposed to oppose and replace with "Another Possible World."
> In the spirit of Rajni Kothari's inspiration
> Azril
> 
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Jai Sen <jai.sen@...> wrote:
> Saturday, January 24 2015
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Azril and/or Mikael
> 
>             Thanks very much for ccing me into this exchange.  I can see from this Mikael, that you are very enthusiastic indeed about the Internet Social Forum and its call to ‘occupy the net’ !
> 
>             I can only hope that the arguments I've made on the list will make at least some sense to you, and that you and NIGD might accordingly, and at the minimum, relate to the initiative more critically.  I of course look forward to your reactions to my post, and am hoping that we can continue to discuss this matter – as we have others, in the past -, but in the meanwhile, and at this juncture, that you might agree that some caution and strategy is required.
> 
> A simple step might simply be for the authors of the Internet Social Forum to, before proceeding / pushing further, open their idea to rigorous discussion and debate, and in particular to extensively take the idea to movements (social movement, liberation movements) and to see, through consultation, whether any modifications are required…. and whether any such organisations agree to come on board.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Jai
> 
> 
> On Jan 23 2015, at 10:54 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril1@...> wrote:
> 
>> Querido Amigo,
>> It was even worse than previously written!
>> As we put the struggle to avoid the Miami Cubans gain control over the working group on Latin America - and it was not a small feat!
>> The Miami Cubans were organized very well to gain control of that group, but did not count with us :-)
>> But, and important to take note of: the working group on indigenous peoples was won by pro-American indigenous "representatives," in the name of the "consensus" mechanism, showing how vulnerable is the "consensus clause"  to manipulation by trained cadres to control such situations!!! Not a minor lesson from that experience, right amigo!
>> It is clear that infiltration by kapitalist agents is in place, while we remain generously open and democratic about it - if at all aware of such nasty reality that one wishes to ignore, right amigo?
>> Our task to construct Another Possible World is urgently required, but it ain´t an esay task at all...
>> Podemos!
>> About attending the next WSF at Tunis, my wish is there - but lack the funds at this point in time!
>> Abrazo
>> Azril
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:06 PM, Azril Bacal <bazril@...> wrote:
>> Dear Mikael,
>> 
>> Hola amigo!
>> 
>> By chance, attended the First World Civil Society Forum in Geneve,
>> a few years ago, along with the swedish delegation.
>> 
>> At arrival, the Front page in the local newspapers was written:
>> "We" (WFCS) are not political like the WSF! On that note of alert, my radar was inmediately triggered...just to confirm the worse hypothesis about it.
>> 
>> It did not take too long to understand who was behind it. In the working group on Latin America, were not for a brazilian journalist from MST, a mexican and a peruvian colleague and myself, that working group would have been led by a cuban group from Miami.  For Ripley - or maybe to be expected.
>> 
>> For what is worth, not willing to disappoint anyone. But it is my responsability to alert you, or it would not be me, right? :-)
>> 
>> Not everything shining is gold :-)
>> This is serious stuff and needs to be addressed with much discretion, please!
>> Abrazo
>> Azril
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:38 PM, Mikael Book <book@...> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear NIGDers,
>> 
>> below, please find a copy of my message to the organisers of a workshop preparing an Internet Social Forum (described in the press release today, which I just posted to the nigd-list). Is it OK with you if I suggest to them that NIGD participates in this workshop as an organisation, perhaps as co-organiser? I promise to be an active participant.
>> 
>> Has NIGD registered its participation in the WSF in Tunis?
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> Mikael
>> 
>> Mikael Böök * book@... * gsm +358(0)-44 5511 324 *
>> http://www.kaapeli.fi/book/  * http://blogi.kaapeli.fi/book/ *
>> http://blog.spinellisfootsteps.info/
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 19:23:51 +0200 (EET)
>> From: Mikael Book <book@...>
>> To: secretariat@...
>> Cc: Mikael Book <book@...>
>> Subject: Thanks for Your Call To Occupy The Internet!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you very much for your call to occupy the internet and for your press release today, January 22. This looks precisely like what I have hoped would come up at the WSF in Tunis! (Could, for example, continue
>> http://openfsm.net/projects/peace-and-internet/project-home ?)
>> 
>> Grateful, if we can be in contact asap, to discuss how I and my group can participate. My group: the Network Institute for Global Democratization, a Finland-based group of researchers-actvistist.
>> 
>> Please keep me posted, put me on your mailing list...
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Mikael
>> 
>> Mikael Böök * book@... * gsm +358(0)-44 5511 324 *
>> http://www.kaapeli.fi/book/  * http://blogi.kaapeli.fi/book/ *
>> http://blog.spinellisfootsteps.info/
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________
> 
> Jai Sen
> 
> jai.sen@... / jai@...
> 
> www.cacim.net / http://www.openword.in
> 
> 
> Now based in Ottawa, Canada (+1-613-282 2900), and New Delhi, India (+91-98189 11325)
> 
> RECENT PUBLICATIONS :
> 
> Jai Sen, ed, 2013 – The Movements of Movements : Struggles for Other Worlds, Part I. Volume 4 Part I in the Challenging Empires series. New Delhi : OpenWord.  Available @ http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/
> 
> FORTHCOMING PUBLICATIONS  :
> 
> Jai Sen and Peter Waterman, eds, forthcoming (2015) – The Movements of Movements : Struggles for Other Worlds, Part 2. Volume 4 Part II in the Challenging Empires series.  New Delhi : OpenWord
> 
> CHECK OUT CACIM @ www.cacim.net, OpenWord @ http://www.openword.in, and OpenSpaceForum @ www.openspaceforum.net
> 
> AND SUBSCRIBE TO WSFDiscuss, an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of information and views on the experience, practice, and theory of social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional, and global), including the World Social Forum.  To subscribe, simply send an empty email to worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe@...
> 
> 
> 

______________________________

Jai Sen

jai.sen@... / jai@...

www.cacim.net / http://www.openword.in

Now based in Ottawa, Canada (+1-613-282 2900), and New Delhi, India (+91-98189 11325)

RECENT PUBLICATIONS :

Jai Sen, ed, 2013 – The Movements of Movements : Struggles for Other Worlds, Part I. Volume 4 Part I in the Challenging Empires series. New Delhi : OpenWord.  Available @ http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/

FORTHCOMING PUBLICATIONS  :

Jai Sen and Peter Waterman, eds, forthcoming (2015) – The Movements of Movements : Struggles for Other Worlds, Part 2. Volume 4 Part II in the Challenging Empires series.  New Delhi : OpenWord

CHECK OUT CACIM @ www.cacim.net, OpenWord @ http://www.openword.in, and OpenSpaceForum @ www.openspaceforum.net

AND SUBSCRIBE TO WSFDiscuss, an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of information and views on the experience, practice, and theory of social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional, and global), including the World Social Forum.  To subscribe, simply send an empty email to worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe@...
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