• sfex facilit meeting 3

last modified April 4, 2011 by facilitfsm

sfex meeting page 


Start and coming in. 1

Vitalij catching  up. 2

Directory of /outreach to unsfexperienced groups?. 2

One common document? or rather general guidelines ?. 3

Not so easy to convey extension to organizing committees. 3

3 drafts before  next sfex meeting. 4

Sara update on SASF Lusaka process. 5

SASF Communication committee to provide a plan. 5

Extension as  a modality for the whole SASF process. 6

A text to be read out loud to an imaginary  SASF mobilization meeting audience. 6

SASF Extension : a collective practice led by organizations – not and individualistic elite one  6

Best possible ownership of extension by SASF OC as a political/methodological option. 7

Back to short term  SASF comcom agenda. 7

a SASF website group?. 8

Florismar & Sara : introduction and contact 8

Florismar : Bigbluebutton testing. 9

Next chat april 12 12am GMT. 9

Contact with Luc from FIC in senegal 9


Chat  sfex 3 march 29th

Start and coming in

[19:15:48] Pierre: hello Ana Torsten Vitalij
[19:18:55] Ana : hello!
[19:19:30] Pierre: chat is now open *
[19:19:33] Ana : Sorry I came at 18 as I thought it was the reunion time
ok! Good
[19:19:55] Pierre: well it was adverstized 19pm paris 17 UTC, it is time change period
[19:20:55] Ana : well here it is 18...we changed time Sunday
[19:21:02] *** Pierre a invité Luc***
[19:27:30] Pierre: hello zarel, jean michel
[19:36:22] coulomb: hello

[19:38:43] Pierre: welcome zarel :)
[19:38:55] Ana : Hello Zarel!
[19:39:14]  Vitalij: Hi, Zarel!
[19:39:26] Zarel: wave

[20:50:30] Sara : hell everybody, sorry for joining late!
[21:47:01] Florismar : Hello, I'm trying to follow

sfex earlier Documentation

[19:22:09] Pierre:  we are starting with few people  , we can focus on the documentation point
[19:22:54] Pierre: last chat verbatime
[19:23:23]  Vitalij: And silence... Like a cemetery :) .
[19:23:44] Pierre: there are two documentation pages currently
-one as agreed started by zarel :
-one which is systematic index of all pages edited in sfex initiative
1000 lines

Vitalij catching  up

[19:24:34]  Vitalij: Sorry, I did not receive last messages blush .
 [19:25:35] Pierre: hello vitalij, how come?
[19:25:55]  Vitalij: Hello!
[19:25:58] Ana : hi Vitalij!
[19:26:46]  Vitalij: I?
[19:27:17] Pierre: vitalij here is the context page for our meetings
[19:28:55] Pierre: (@vitalij, how come you did not receive the messages these past days) -our meetings are tuesdays
[19:29:27]  Vitalij: Now all messages are received. When I wrote...
 Ana : contact document

 [19:24:50] Ana : ok. I just want to rectify a point, last time I wasn't thinking of creating an association but just the construction of a frame to make our facilitation more efficient
 [19:26:23] Pierre: Ana what do you have in mind ?
[19:28:21] Ana : Well I guess that what I said last time was misunderstood. I was thinking of a way to crate the tools to divulge expanded participations. A contact document that we would send to a list of hypothetical participants
Two action lines : events and directory of « sfexperienced » groups

[19:30:33] Pierre: well Ana, as sfex facilit group we have two action lines  

1- cooperate with event organizers who want to extend their event
see the "event list" here
so this implies to exchange with them and the extended commission they will set up will create its own documents during the whole event process
for the time being we can try to get in cooperation with sao paulo, lusaka, dhakka

2 - there are about 100 groups who have experienced distance intercommunication during 2010-2011, they participated in Belem, in ecEsol, in Osaka, in Dunas, in Mexico, in Palestine, in dakar
so we can create a "directory" of those groups and ask them if they are willing to be in it and are open to receive invitation to exchange from other groups
this being independent from the events, so we can edit the mailing list page of all groups.. and derive a table with  the directory

Directory of /outreach to unsfexperienced groups?

[19:34:20] Ana : Yes! That's exactly what I was thinking, but we could also create a directory of groups, associations, etc. that never experienced expanded activities and contact them too
[19:37:30] Pierre: well yes Ana, having in mind that one issue is to convey the social forum idea ...
the events are good occasions to explain what the social forum procss is
[19:38:34] Zarel: ....(if there is something like it...)

[19:40:07] Pierre: of course Ana it is useful to bring in new actors /groups as long as they receive the proper information and are aware of  the process
There are several ways  that can be followed .....we could suggest that the groups in the directory that are willing to stay in it  indicates other people./groups that would be interested to join ...etc..   first it is realistic to focus on activating the current list of groups ..and try to create a first version of a "sfex permanent directory"

what do you think? how can we split the task?

[19:44:04] Zarel: but i think there is another things
[19:44:07]  Vitalij: Pierre, I can help. Now I have a much free time.
[19:44:08] Zarel: we all like a team, it can be good have a common base, like that we made (or middle) about common vocabulary, we can have a base of common experience in promoting text  ¿no?
[19:46:12] Ana : yes, like a team, as we are!
[19:47:33] Pierre: we have the lists of lists here :
http://openfsm.net/projects/daketvideos/project-home at the bottom of the page

One common document? or rather general guidelines ?

[19:50:33] Ana : I'm still quite ignorant of the all process, but I guess we could write a common document to invite all groups/people listed in the link you gave in order t prepare for the next Social Forums
[19:52:09] Pierre: i doubt this is the way Ana ;) they can prepare their participation inasmuch the event organizers invite extended participation, as Palestine organizers did

[19:47:50] Zarel: but, i think Pierre
[19:48:22] Pierre: yes zarel ... pls go ahead
 [19:54:00] Zarel: we think that all the text generated can be a good background for this text that you said Ana, but now i think it is too much, maybe not exactly a common document, but maybe ¿general lines?
[19:55:55] Ana : well we might need to tell the event organizers that there could be expanded activities
[19:59:23] Pierre: well Ana among the 1000 pages in the index there are quite a few pages aiming at this, that we can inspire from .. but with not so great efficiency so far  :)
as sfex facilitation group we engage in a relationship with specific people about specific events
[19:59:23] Ana : @Zarel, well I see a common document of facilitators' team as telling the orientations of social forums including the expanded activities...I don't understand what you mean
[20:07:11] Zarel: i was confuse... but in principle i think this is ok: "a common document of facilitators' team"...

Not so easy to convey extension to organizing committees

[20:09:59] Ana : Pierre, you said that it was not efficient so far, could you specify?

[20:10:56] Pierre: i mean that for an organizing committee  it is not easy to realize what is extension and imagine all the tasks implied , and be willing to do them
During 2010  sfex intiaitive has engaged dialogue with 20 organizing committees
you can see some documents about this here
see lines 8( Cuzco) 9 ( porto alegre) 11 13 ...19 21
Each relation with an organizing committee is specific
And now we have the concrete task to engage in an exchange with Sao Paulo  Lusaka  Dhaka ...
General Standard documents to drafted based on existing document corpus

[20:16:16] Ana : Yes, I understand....If we decide on a future document we could be pointing the benefits of expanded activities (stressing on the inclusion factor, ecological factor, for example, and others) and then explain the process, the tasks, etc. and for every social forum we would send it to our directory list...

[20:17:05] Zarel: here are general points...:that there is a extended possibility, that there have been tested, that it can bring benefits for the org comité and for the sf process

[20:20:03] Pierre: well Ana there are different documents
- some directed  to the event organizers,
- some directed to activity organizers in the event venue
- some directed to participants who will not come - and better if those are  emitted by the organizing committee itself

[20:22:09] Zarel: but there are a lot... don't you think so? it isn't practical... (maybe i'm wrong) but i think it can be discouraging, or maybe not.... ):
[20:23:59] Pierre: of course  Zarel there are a lot, one copied from the other , and translated, am not saying they are good . am just saying that each case has been different ....
So we can try to draft  a “standard document”  for each “standard situation”  ..

What is also quite  important is creating a good cooperation spirit with a given organizing committee

[20:28:11] Ana : @pierre, so 3 types of documents directed to 2 types of organizers and participants that could be more or less the same (I guess). shall I write a little something, a little start of document, for next reunion, that all of us would complete with their knowledge?
[20:28:40] Zarel: i think it's a great idea
[20:28:48] Pierre: sure !
[20:29:26] Pierre: Ana the situation of organizers of a centric activity in the event  is quite different from the situation of someone not going to the event city
-for the first the most achieved description is compostela in spanish
see line 705 of the index :
http://openfsm.net/projects/fme-compostela-expandido/invitacion1   [20:31:41] Ana : ok.
[20:31:55] Pierre: this is a “how to” document ,  you can insist on the “why”, and this can be separate documents : the ivnitation for dakar by mexico was good
[20:33:34] Pierre:
[20:35:32] Pierre: you will receive the index with more comments
 we may not be able to arrive to  a series of "one fits all" document
in any case it will be useful for you and for us as a group

3 drafts before  next sfex meeting

[20:30:27] Ana : ok, so, since I have another reunion here in Portugal...very soon, tell me when is the next meeting so that I send the embrionary doc before the next reunion...that sounds good to you?
Next meeting

[20:30:43] Pierre: next meeting in two weeks  in the early afternoon, 12 GMT
[20:31:33] Zarel: we had at 17 and at 12... we can have 24?? at 24? or at mexico afternoon?
 [20:36:00] Pierre: zarel , so far we are alternating 12UTC and 17UTC
[20:33:10] Ana : @Pierre...so the 12th of April at 12 GMT, I'll check the documents you mention: I'm sorry, I have to go. Talk to you soon!

@Zarel I didn't forget to send you the links...just had little time with all the social movements in Portugal. Abraços to all

Sara update on SASF Lusaka process

[20:41:25] Pierre: *)  i just called sara and she is going to join, hello sara !
[20:50:30] Sara : hell everybody, sorry for joining late!
[20:50:50] Pierre: everybody is zarel and vitalij
[20:51:05] Sara : hello indeed!
[20:51:47] Pierre: so Sara may be you can tell about SASF status , last time we had kiss and here is what he said :

[20:53:31] Sara : SASFROC will meet in Zambia on 14th May to strategy for the event to be held in the last quarter of 2011.
The Communication committee hasn't yet met - Kiss is a member of that. I join them from time to time.We expect to use daket style to reach those that cannot come to Luska
However, not yet started to plan on that although ZAMSOF will be meeting weekly to stratege on general issues.

[20:57:06] Pierre: please explain....you mean that from now on till May 14th there will be a weekly meeting  and that in this meeting extension is not included ?

[20:58:35] Sara : Yes, local organizing committee under ZAMSOF will hold meetings every Wednesday - they will hold one tomorrow but I'll not attend as I fly out mid morning as they meet.
Extension will be included provided there will be someone to report - extension has already been agreed by the organizing committee.

[21:00:53] Pierre: that is a good news
Hence  the importance of including extension  from the start  as a key SASF feature ( and not just something subcontracted to communication commission ) .. because the event  design organization and mobilization will be different if extension is included from the start ..

SASF Communication committee to provide a plan

[21:04:03] Sara : agree, but what is needed is for the communication committee to provide a plan - I'll be able to join them on my return - next wednesday I'll be back in Lusaka.

Extension as  a modality for the whole SASF process

[21:06:08] Pierre: what am trying to say is  that is is also a methodology issue  /logistical /program ..
if in the  core organizing  team there are two or three people  willing to promote concretely extension as a modality of the whole process, and  willing to experiment along the preparation process to build up confidence  and ownership of this modality ,
 and caring that  the global agenda is assimllatig extension

Of course at some point some specific things need to be done by specific commissions, but ifyou think a plan from communication commission is the way to go, i would reword my concern in the following way :
- make sure that comcom plan is overlapping with others commission and find some “OC sponsors” that will  make sure other commission also take their part of extension :)

[21:08:04] Pierre: in dakar we had a limitation effect
some OC key people were favorable to daket , but they did not see about all practical implications
daket was a subcommision of comcom, and as such it did not lobby well enough into other commissions, so we had some problems that were on top of the general organizing problems
That is why  it is important to discuss the implications and modalities of extension in the overall OC , SASF Comcom can be the stimulator but not considered as the only actor

[21:13:06] Sara : okay - here we have to engage the local communication.committee as a way forward although the bulk of the prep will be done by a handful - but it will be essential to link up with all committees - this link will be done at the weekly meetings.

A text to be read out loud to an imaginary  SASF mobilization meeting audience

[21:13:53] Pierre: Yes ..pls look at the text here below the title

The text below is a "we"  “we the SASF Organization committee”, meaning that any member of OC during mobilization work could be telling this text to people  , endorsing and owning the "we"
and making sure  things are happening according to the commitments and announcements  "we" are making
[21:16:17] Sara : okay, looking at the text.
[21:17:28] Pierre: if you just read this text "out loud"  thinking you as OC member are "telling this story"  to people during a preparation mobilization meeting in south africa, Mozambique, or out of Lusaka ..... then you feel the difference  :) and you see the commitment rising ...and you see it is not only an issue for  communication commission
"we" as OC ....

SASF Extension : a collective practice led by organizations – not and individualistic elite one

[21:22:07] Sara : well, i agree with what the quotation says, but here in SASF region. we have to consider that the persons that  want to participate have no direct access to a computer hence the need to liaise with intermediate people near them that have e.g. NGOs.

[21:22:25] Pierre: sure ...i am just imagining the situation, where you are in a meeting say in Maputo, and your are saying to the people here ,  “organize local activities here in Maputo and propose distance encounters with Lusaka, and make sure your delegates  coming in Lusaka will see to "enlarging" Lusaka activities on internet in Portuguese ...”
Of course , you are inviting people to organize locally which means  relying o organizations that have some internet infrastructure etc...
the forum is a space for organized people first and foremost where unorganized people can meet organized ones :)
[21:24:41] Sara : so, the format of mobilizing the voiceless has to go beyond linking to individuals (elites) that have laptops and connect anytime or with computers and can use at their offices duing the day.
[21:25:11] Pierre: sure ! agree it is a collective process : in a forum , activities can be organized only by organizations or group of organizations
And  in an extended forum it is the same: for instance

 local activities in Durban  will be registered by organizations
distance encounter  Lusaka -Maputo will be proposed by organizations
and some organization coming to Lusaka will decide to enlarge their activity towards their networks back home and worldwide
The process is exactly the same as in Lusaka  - extended activities are organized by organizations in a collective manner

Best possible ownership of extension by SASF OC as a political/methodological option

[21:27:31] Sara : so, pierre we are saying the same thing then, so what's the problem then?
[21:27:42] Pierre: there is no problem :)
i am just pointing to the necessity to have the best possible ownership by the OC, so the idea of extension becomes a political /methodological idea owned by OC  and not a technical one
[21:29:41] Pierre: it becomes a practice, with self confidence being built progressively during the preparation process , using all practical occasion during this process to test and train, as you did for daket
the cycle i m referring to for OC active people  : i understand extension- i agree on extending- i communicate extension - i commit to organize it  - i prepare it

 [21:32:48 | Sara : exactly my point –


Back to short term  SASF comcom agenda

 [21:32:48 | Sara : but my starting point is with the local communication .committee - this hasn't happened yet because I've been busy with other personal stuff and Kiss hasn't bn able to link up with the members either.
[21:34:53] Sara : looking at what kiss said last time.
[21:36:30] Pierre: well i suppose it is a matter of one week delay, so not a big deal .if we read on the same page ..:)

SASF Website design – friendly to extension and participation

[21:36:30] Pierre a very concrete early issue will probably be  the website .... we are available to exchange on this in detail ... based on experience
please Sara go ahead about what kiss said last time ...  the suggestion which was made to him was that extension could be part of flexibility and answer to alleviate the constraints he mentioned
your added comments will be quite helpful, i do not know how those suggestion have been assessed in OC
[21:40:00] Pierre: florismar ?
[21:41:27] Sara : okay, seen contribution by  kiss - we are still in the same position - no funding, no date, not updated website!
[21:42:25] Sara : So, I suggest we start with revising website so that it's interractive!
[21:42:36] Pierre: yess!
because interactivy is very important if people cannot be in the same place
interactivity can take simple form – eg possibility for each registered activity in SASF to have a url adress, a page that its organizers  can edit , and where they can be send a message to
and maintaining a clear difference between what is open to "organisations" and what is open to “individuals”
[21:44:19] Sara : will liaise with kiss by email and skype whilst in New York, so that we report something to OC - on 6th April!
[21:44:40] Pierre: thanks...

a SASF website group?

[21:46:05] Pierre: kiss can share views on the website in sfex list ,   a website working group can be initiative ,  or some people from sfex can  get included  in it, very practical exchange of idea -
[21:48:01] Sara : okay pierre, thanks for being there to re-energize us! Bon soir!


Florismar & Sara : introduction and contact
[21:47:01] Florismar : Hello, I'm trying to follow, but I have difficulty with the language ... and I'm out of context. For now I'll try to monitor
[21:47:55] Pierre: florismar – Sara is from Zambia, member of FEMNET in wsf IC , and she promoted extended participation from Zambia in Dakar:

 [21:48:20] Pierre: before you go Sara ; here is florismar from southern brazil
[21:48:44] Sara : ola florismar!I guess you are multi-lingua? I was discussing with pierre how to organize next social forum for southern africa in 2011.to include extension paradigm!
[21:50:49] Florismar : ok
 [21:50:49] Pierre: sara :
here is  the activity of dunas during wsf dakar
[21:51:15] Florismar : Ola Sara
[21:53:25] Pierre: sara : most everyone is mutlilingual on this chat .. but no everyone is english speaking -although many -  Florismar /dunas have a good  technical extension experience - they made a forum in their neighborhood in 2010 and use ustream - now they are trying to stimulate some distance intercommunication inside a network created out of their forum  " emcomun"
[21:54:16] Pierre: there is an invitation to join this network in english here, giving a good refrence frame of what it is, it is about empowerment of local communities
[21:55:33] Sara : impressive! Will study it with others and will seek their advice in due course because out team needs to be hands on!
[21:57:45] Sara : bye peirre and florismar :)!
[21:58:16] Florismar : Tchau! Prazer!
[21:58:32] Pierre: bye sara ! - keep in touch in the sfex list...good trip to new York; and good liaising with kiss

Florismar : Bigbluebutton testing

[21:54:54] Florismar : I am tenting to set a server to use bigbluebutton , I tested and found interesting , including the chat wit instant translation  which helps communication
Estou tentando criar um servidor para utilizar o BigBlueButton. Testei e achei interessante, inclusive pelo CHAT com tradução instantanea, o que facilita a comuinicação
 [21:55:46] Pierre: very good florismar , bigbluebutton has been underused so far

[21:57:55] Pierre: so anything you experiement please post on tecnoitnercom space
[21:58:14] Pierre: the page " bigbluebutton.or pt “ is ready for you!

[22:00:00] Florismar : Ok,  I had problems with internet – am reorganizing -: I will follow from now on
[22:00:14]  Vitalij: Florismar, in such case I leave you :) .
[22:00:33] Pierre: vitalij is from ukraine
[22:00:48]  Vitalij:
Я могу писать на русском :) .
[22:00:51] Pierre: salut LUC!

Next chat april 12 12am GMT

[22:02:23] Pierre: next chat april 12th  12 GMT
[22:02:52] Florismar : Thanks! Until next time!
[22:03:15]  Vitalij: OK. Pierre, we'll speak tomorrow.
[22:03:24] Pierre: ok...

Contact with Luc from FIC in senegal

[22:17:07] Luc salut Pierre
[22:18:04] Pierre: hello luc , here we speak more english.. last time, emile attended ..meeting has ended you can see what has been  said above.